Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by Chris May, Oct 31, 2013.
Everything takes on additional value when the source of it is suddenly gone.
Perhaps pressure from fans.
Here's the above question asked another way: if it wasn't good enough to release in 1979/1980 and Karen had lived, would it have been released later in her lifetime?
I think the answer to that would be a resounding "no".
Then, we also have
1991 released (Which was slated for 1990, by the way: see Orange County Magazine Interview)
From The Top, which includes
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind
Still Crazy After All These Years.
Both "Remixed 1990".
A bit of Timeline......corrections, please, if I err....
1980: Re-recording, and re-arranging, of
Make Believe It's Your First Time
1983:Lead Single off Voice Of The Heart:
Make Believe It's Your First Time
1983: Cover Photo Voice of the Heart taken from NY Session Photos
1989: Four songs from solo album remixed and released on
If I Had You released as Single.
and, Lovelines is Name of "Final Carpenters' Album"
1990: Remix of Two more solo songs for inclusion in From the Top
1996 sees release of
Karen Carpenter solo album,
Make Believe It's Your First Time
released as a Promo Single.
I just noticed in the Complete Singles booklet that "If I Had You" hit #18 on the A/C charts in 1989.
I tend to disagree, Karen was pretty proud of her solo album with or without Richards approval of final playback. If the fans had kept asking her about it she would have found a way to get the material out to the fans. It was also inevitable that another solo album would have appeared with a new direction she was wanting to head. She shelved it but wasn't going to forget about it, pleasing the fans is something she would have wanted to do. She just seems like that kind of person.
Here's a question I never really thought about before. Looking at the list of material that was released after Karen died -- and the still-unreleased items. How many of those items were known about before she died?
Put another way -- if she had lived, would Richard have kept sitting on the unreleased material and would fans have found out about all of it, or did a lot of this material just get "unearthed" after Karen died and may have otherwise never seen the light of day?
The unreleased 'buried treasures' song list being leaked out to fans is a BIG reason why we have several songs today in our collections. I'm thankful that Richard took notice of it. 'Leave Yesterday Behind' and 'The Rainbow Connection' are the two songs that were a direct result of that list finding its way into the 'Mook' book.
Richard also has stated that he was being deluged for years with outright demands for the solo album's release. That's why he finally decided to release it.
Well with regard to her solo material, it was known as it was publicized in Billboard and the trade magazines she was recording with Phil Ramone. The fans also knew about the solo album with monthly updates in the fan club newsletters. So it was no secret.
As I've read from the Official Carpenters website that hasn't been updated in nearly 10 years Richard wrote that "Now" was the only one that would have made any bonafide follow up to MIA.
I imagine a lot of the unreleased songs were mostly known to only those involved, but with the newsletter and reports of expected releases at the time there was knowledge of them. Maybe not specifically to the extent that we have seen.
They talked about going through the 80s more 'sensibly', so I wouldn't be surprised if Carpenters put out songs they'd already recorded years prior. Many artists hold over songs for their next album(s) or collections. Karen had her heart set on a movie and as we speculate would have likely revisited solo work while working with Richard. Everything that was attempted to be recorded for their '79 anniversary album that never materialized may have stayed unreleased, and songs from their specials as well. "Lovelines" as we know it would not exist. Potentially some of it used as bonus tracks in later releases who knows, but a lot of the material for that and "As time goes by" especially was not their original purpose (referring to the made-for-TV audio).
Right, we have the transcript in English of Richard going through the buried treasure list and it is most likely the reason why we received much from that list. Singers are known to over record and I bet there is stuff from Olivia that is not known of today, we didn't know about her version of John Denver's hit Looking For Space until it appeared on Japan box set.
Here is the first time I have seen an advert (although small) letting the public know about the single, Honolulu City Lights. This ad appeared in The Gavin Report Dec 12, 1986. The photo they used for this is interesting, could this have been the cover art for the single release and then later dropped?
Richard has said himself that if Karen had lived, they would have shelved the songs we can now listen to and just moved on. This means that without Karen's passing, we may never have heard such gems as Ordinary Fool, Slow Dance, Where Do I Go From Here and Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night.
Thanks for sharing that. I was always curious about that single's release. Since I was long off the fan club by then and busy with my first full-time teaching job, I wasn't following music trades very much and had zero knowledge that a new song had come out. One afternoon I was fiddling with my stereo radio dial trying to find a clear station (lived in an -- ugh -- trailer park at the time) and heard a voice through the static that sounded like Karen but it was not a song I'd heard before. Caught only about 1/3 of it, tried going to record stores to see if there was a new release, learned nothing. Like it was World Contact Day and Karen was calling to me from the afterlife! Wasn't until "Lovelines" finally came out that I realized I hadn't just dreamed the whole episode. It was weird. I'm very fond of the song, think it showcases Karen's voice quite well, and I'm glad to see A&M did get behind it to a degree.
I had no idea about "Honolulu City Lights" at all. It was totally off my radar at that point in time, and I didn't follow the trades regularly. So it was quite a surprise when I did stumble across it.
I've detailed it before, but while my wife was negotiating a new car deal, I was wandering around the showroom and came upon a car-radio options display that was tuned to a beautiful music station out of Allentown, PA. Suddenly this voice cut through the noise on the floor - it was unmistakably Karen - but the song was totally unfamiliar. This was long before the days of Soundhound and music identifier apps on cellphones of course, so the only way one could identify a song was to hope a DJ would tell you what it was. This being a beautiful-music station, there weren't really DJs, just announcers reading liners and doing weather once in awhile. So it was lost to the ether. While it played I tried to hone in on the lyrics, but all I got on the chorus was "Each time on a lulu city lights..." which made zero sense to me, so I couldn't get a sense of the songs title.
Later that week, I asked my program director (in Philly radio) if he'd heard of any new Carpenters record, but he shrugged it off as if he hadn't. By then we were still soft rock but way past the stage of playing any Carpenters songs at all, so it wouldn't be out of the question if he never got a copy. Like I said, it was playing on a slushy beautiful music station.
So it wasn't for a few more years until I would be reunited with the song as a track on LOVELINES. I hadn't gotten any Japanese imports yet, so ANTHOLOGY wasn't on my radar either.
I always loved this song, and in late '78 Karen sounded really good. I seem to recall that they were planning to release this as a single in '79 in conjunction with their decade anniversary album, but obviously it wasn't meant to be.
Richard Carpenter states:
"Lovelines, and If I Had You, being remixed, with Phil’s permission, by Robert De La Garza and me.
I also replaced the original bass player on If I Had You with Joe Osborn."
(1) Who were the original Bass Players on the original mix of these songs ? And why were they replaced?
(2) What did the "remix" of these two songs consist of ? That is, what aspects were altered ?
Lovelines retains the original bass in the remix. The original bass player on If I Had You would have either been Doug Stegmeyer or Louis Johnson. I'm sure with Richard it was just a style thing, he probably just thought Joe Osborne could do a better job.
Karen Carpenter: Karen Carpenter Solo Album »
In Lovelines the opening four bars were cut and the song fades early, running at around 4m30s as opposed to the solo version which clocks in at over 5 minutes. There's more reverb on the drums (as there also is on the remix of My Body Keeps Changing My Mind) and Karen's lead vocal is also brought much more to the fore on the remix. In the original version, she's drowned out by the backing vocals in places, particularly at the end of the first chorus on the line "cos lovelines never fade...".
If I Had You was subject to what's probably the most extensive remix of all the solo tracks. The bass part is new and some of the percussion parts in the choruses are quieter in the remix. Richard also replaced a couple of vocal takes on certain lines and completely revised the ending, so that the "call and response" vocal section ends completely cold, as opposed to fading out with the rest of the track.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Only correction would be in Lovelines. The opening (4) bars are present on both mixes, the only difference is on the original mix, the bass is cut from the first (4), coming in on bar 5. In fact if you listen closely to the original, you can hear some slight leakage of the "slap" from the bass during the session, even though it was cut from the mix. For the Lovelines remix, Richard left the bass in from the downbeat.
As far as If I Had You, Joe's signature bass treatment was added because the tune was slated to be released as a Carpenters single. This was one of the most Carpenter-esque of all the tracks vocally, and adding Joe's revised bass work created the tie-in Richard needed.
Sadly, Doug Stegmeyer passed away in 1995.
Thus, he never got to witness the release of the solo album.
Would have liked to hear him speak of his time with Karen in the studio.
Doug Stegmeyer | Long Island Music Hall of Fame »
While listening to
it amused me to realize I had never gotten this lyric correct...
"I should leave you,
but I love you,
Oh, it doesn't make sense."
I, for one, do not hear those (emboldened) words when listening to the song !
I hear a slurring of that second line, but I thought she was saying "but I'll have you know"
I never understood what she said there, either. I always just assumed it was something like, "I should leave you, but I've had enough..", which makes zero sense in the context.
I thought it was "I should leave you, but I love you though it doesn't make sense..."