🎄 Holidays! Christmas Portrait/An Old Fashioned Christmas (LP Pressings)

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Christmas Portrait

Looking at my Christmas Portrait LP on the spine of the LP cover it says: A&M SP-3210, Is this a first Pressing? I've seen alot of these LP's on ebay with a #SP-4726, Is this a 2nd Pressing?

What else I found weird was on my Christmas Portrait LP on the "Run-In" it has this #SP-3210 A (side1) and SP-3210 B (side 2) stamped on there in block letters instead of the usual script writing. What else I noticed is that to the left of this block lettering is another "run-in" that is scratched across it, it appears that it was scripted using the #SP-5189-RCA (side 1) and #SP-5190-RCA (side2) but like I said it's as if someone literally scratched through that # with a pen, almost looks like it was done by hand or possibly a machine. Why would there have been 2 numbering on this LP run-in? The label clearly says SP-3210 also says it at the bottom corner left of front LP cover underneath A&M logo.


An Old-Fashioned Christmas

On this LP, my "run-in" states SP-3270 A RCA 1 (side 1) and SP-3270 B RCA 1 (side 2) With label clearly marked as SP-3270. There is no 2nd run-in on this one. This numbering is not too far off from the Christmas Portrait numbering.


Can someone help clarify the LP pressing numbers for me? I always thought that the smaller the catalog # meant it was a first pressing. Why is there a 2nd run-in scratched through on my C.P. LP?

Then secondly, with regard to these Carpenters albums, what difference would it make if one had a 1st pressing or a 2nd pressing?

 

[Rudy]

Then secondly, with regard to these Carpenters albums, what difference would it make if one had a 1st pressing or a 2nd pressing?

I can't speak for these particular albums, or ALL albums in general, but here are two scenarios that cover most situations.

1) First pressings are often cut from a master tape. Before the signal gets to the lathe for cutting, it is equalized and tweaked (all part of a typical mastering phase). While the album is cutting on the lathe, a second tape recorder was often run simultaneously that recorded the signal going right to the cutting head. That way, for later pressing runs, they just used this tape copy to cut a record, vs. going back to the original, hoping the engineer's cutting notes are in the box, and doing it all again. An additional generation of tape adds a little bit of noise and dulls the high frequencies a little with each dub (copy), so chances are that some first pressings were made from the original master tape.

2) Records are stamped from metal parts. As the parts are used, they wear out. (I'll explain further below.) If the plant reuses any of the metal parts, later pressings could be made from parts that are worn more than earlier pressings.

Those are two reasons, although there could be others. But in general, these two reasons (either separately or in tandem) are why collectors and audiophiles tend to prefer first pressings.

When a record is "cut", it is done so on a lathe. The platter is actually lacquer (which is soft, so the stylus can cut the grooves) on an layer of aluminum or other metal. Only one side of an LP is cut on a lacquer master. After the lacquer is cut, it is plated with metal; when this is pulled off of the lacquer, this creates a negative where the inward "grooves" are pointing outward. This part is then plated and a "mother" is created, where the grooves are inward again. From the mother, "stampers" are made, where the grooves are again "inside out" so to speak. These stampers, one for each side of the record, are put into the press. A puck of vinyl with a label on each side is put into the machine, and it's heated up--the record is then trimmed and packaged.

Stampers wear out. So do mothers. For that reason, earlier stampers would tend to sound closer to the original lacquer than later stampers. (I know RCA's LPs from the 60s and 70s used actual stamper numbers in the run-out area--"1S" is an early stamper, where "8S" would be a later stamper.) And while ideally stampers can be used for about 1,000 albums, the record companies may have used them longer to save money.

What happens, as you may be able to guess, is that the record company could still have metal parts to do a second pressing, but they would be a little worn from earlier usage. If they are too far gone, then they have to cut a new lacquer and do the whole process over again.

If you want to see some photos, here are some from Steve Hoffman's site. The photos were taken at Record Technology Inc., which does mastering, cutting and record pressing in L.A. (In these photos, they were cutting the CCR albums.)

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=398

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3227

RTI's site: http://www.recordtech.com/

 

[Tim Neely]

Here's the scoop on the Carpenters' Christmas vinyl. It's a little confusing, so bear with me.

The original edition of Christmas Portrait is SP-4726. This was the number it had in 1978, when first released.

In either 1979 or 1980, probably 1980, A&M followed the lead of several other labels and created a separate "budget-line" or "mid-price" series for certain catalog items. The problem was that A&M chose to start this series with SP-3100. Therefore, all these reissues would have a LOWER number than the original issues in the 4000 series (or in some cases 3600 or 3700 series). Therefore, the SP-3210 issue is a reissue, specifically from 1982.

To make life even more confusing, the 3100 series was a price point and not necessarily reserved for reissues. For example, SP-3209 was the EP Love and Dancing by "League Unlimited Orchestra" -- the instrumental tracks by Human League from the LP Dare. And those LPs from 3200-3208 were all mid-priced "best of" releases.

This leads us to An Old Fashioned Christmas. Perhaps because it was a collection of outtakes and incomplete tracks, the original version of this album, released in 1984, has the catalog number SP-3270. In 1987, A&M changed the number of An Old Fashioned Christmas to SP-5172, its front-line series, in effect raising its list price. I have copies of AOFC with both numbers.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Thanks for clearing that up Tim. That's what is so great about this forum.

So it appears my Christmas Portrait LP is a re-issue and my Old Fashioned Christmas is an original issue. I always thought I had the original issues since my numbers were so low. but I was wrong.

I also enjoyed reading that Rudy, I wasn't able to view the pics as it appears you have to be a member to see them.

 

[Rudy]

I also enjoyed reading that Rudy, I wasn't able to view the pics as it appears you have to be a member to see them.

Weird! I thought we had it set that way. Try it now...

BTW, another link with another pic or two inside the plant:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=28181

 

[Chris May]

Very interesting! Thanks Tim for clearing that up, as well as Rudy for that stellar explanation!!!

I own sealed copies of both albums, and am now VERY curious as to which number(s) I have on both.....

 

[Rudy]

By sheer coincidence...

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=44239

Steve explains it a lot better than I could.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Rudy, excellent link, I just watched the real player clip for dsl at the archive.org from 1948 from the record plant of record being made. Love seeing this kind of stuff. Very interesting, I had no idea how this was really done back then, did they really have the orchestra in the same studio when the wax when being recorded on? Surely that part must have changed over the years. Wow it sure did go through alot of baths. lol. I was also amazed at the danberry press of making the black colored lp and how they put the glob of black stuff right over top the label & then pressed it. I always thought the label would have been pasted on later. Interesting.

Cool to watch vintage footage!!! I recomend anyone that is using records to view it. Very informative.

 

[Rudy]

Rudy, excellent link, I just watched the real player clip for dsl at the archive.org from 1948 from the record plant of record being made. Love seeing this kind of stuff. Very interesting, I had no idea how this was really done back then, did they really have the orchestra in the same studio when the wax when being recorded on? Surely that part must have changed over the years.

Tape didn't come into widespread use in studios until the early to mid 50s, depending on the studio, so yes, a lot of earlier recordings were done live in the studio like that! Tape changed everything.

There is one exception: for a while in the late 70s and early 80s, there was a type of audiophile recording called Direct To Disc, where again, the band was live in the studio and the recording went right to the cutting lathe. They usually ran a tape backup, which is how these ended up on CD in later years. But the one problem with these recordings is that the performances were reserved or stiff--if someone made a mistake, they would have to start the whole cutting procedure over. And on an LP, there were sometimes long pauses between the tracks due to the musicians preparing for the next song.

That movie is interesting since it was made in the days of 78RPM records, where the discs were cut into wax (vs. lacquer, as they use today) and pressed on shellac (where they are pressed on vinyl today). If you notice the cutting lathe, the platter is spinning at 78RPM! The basic process, though, has not changed over all these years. And at the beginning of the movie, they are showing the metal masters that they saved.

The movie:

http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00132