From Offering to Lovelines: A Musical Evolution

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newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I know Lovelines isn't a proper studio album as such, but it was the final proper epitaph to their career, collecting the best of the remaining tracks from their later years, including Made In America and solo sessions. Now, when I listen to this and their first album back to back, I am still astonished at the difference in a) the sonic quality, b) the development in Karen's readings and c) the sheer ambitiousness of their sound. Could you imagine playing Lovelines to them in 1969 and saying "this is how you'll sound a little over ten years from now"?

It makes me appreciate their legacy and musical development all the more. Just compare a song like All Of My Life with Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night. Wow.
 
This album is pure genius! To be able to take the variety of cuts stylistically and thread them all together the way Richard did is nothing short of a miracle. Just a beautiful piece of work IMHO. And talk about two people who lived their lives in fast-forward...wow!
 
'Lovelines' was an EVENT indeed. Incredible collection. I was bouncing off the walls at the record store the day it was released (Halloween, 1989).
 
Firstly, I Love the album
Lovelines....
But, I do keep in mind a couple of points, this regarding Carpenters' "musical evolution,"
(1) Backing vocals: for Honolulu City Lights and Uninvited Guest,the...O.K. Chorale
(2) Backing Vocals: for Lovelines, If We Try, Remember When Loving Took All Night, If I Had You
were arranged by Rod temperton, and feature only Karen Carpenter.
(3)When I Fall In Love and Little Girl Blue were arranged and orchestrated by Peter Knight
(4) Karen Carpenter is absent any drumming. Richard carpenter keyboards on Seven selections.
(5) Where Do I Go From Here, has no backing vocals.

Thus, in terms of Carpenters signature elements, not to say a "musical evolution,"
I simply categorize the Lovelines album as somewhat of an anomaly.
A brilliant anomaly, to be sure.
 
I never would have guessed, upon first listen, that Lovelines wasn't a "normal" album. It's very put together and runs flawlessly. I still don't understand how "Kiss Me.." was not a single or previously released. That is a production!
 
Firstly, I Love the album
Lovelines....
But, I do keep in mind a couple of points, this regarding Carpenters' "musical evolution,"
(1) Backing vocals: for Honolulu City Lights and Uninvited Guest,the...O.K. Chorale
(2) Backing Vocals: for Lovelines, If We Try, Remember When Loving Took All Night, If I Had You
were arranged by Rod temperton, and feature only Karen Carpenter.
(3)When I Fall In Love and Little Girl Blue were arranged and orchestrated by Peter Knight
(4) Karen Carpenter is absent any drumming. Richard carpenter keyboards on Seven selections.
(5) Where Do I Go From Here, has no backing vocals.

Thus, in terms of Carpenters signature elements, not to say a "musical evolution,"
I simply categorize the Lovelines album as somewhat of an anomaly.
A brilliant anomaly, to be sure.

Excellent points. And compared to Voice Of The Heart:
(1) Backing vocals (6): “Now,” “You’re Enough,” “Make Believe...” “Two Lives,” “...End Of A Song,” “Look To Your Dreams" - OK Chorale
(2) Backing vocals (3): “Sailing On The Tide,” “Prime Time Love,” “Your Baby..." - Carpenter vocals
(3) No backing vocals (1): “Ordinary Fool.”

While RC notes on the website that these songs were outtakes, and in spite of the Chorale on so many of these tracks, I do believe the album holds together very well, and I remember it fondly (and bittersweetly). But to the point of the thread, it would be fun to have seen R&K’s reaction to the sound of these or Lovelines tunes.
 
The use of the OK Chorale was one of the things on my mind when I started the thread. Karen was well aware of the chorale and their sound, as it had been well used on Christmas Portrait as well as their 1976 single I Need To Be In Love.

Did she like their sound? I've never heard of her speak publicly about the use of choirs on their songs.

Did she think she'd be virtually completely removed from drumming duties before the decade was out? I definitely don't think so.
 
By the way---great thread !

Another point:
Look To Your Dreams, apparently a 1974 composition !
So, in terms of an evolution, I would say Richard Carpenter definitely evolved: say, from "Mr.Guder" to "Dreams."
Composition-wise, I thought his early material was not so great....but, composition-wise Only Yesterday and I Need To Be In Love
show an evident (and, much appreciated !) evolution in his songwriting. (Which I lament--- that he did so little of, later in their career).
But, what an interesting thing it is to hear how Karen's vocal nuances and acrobatics evolved !
That evolution, from Karen Carpenter Looking For Love to Karen Carpenter Remember When Lovin' Took All Night is phenomenal !
What failed to evolved--apparently--was the utilization of those signature Carpenters' background (Karen/Richard) vocals.
It rather went chronologically backwards to the Frank Pooler-inspired Choral days at CSLB.
 
Worth noting that a full third of "Lovelines" is from Karen's solo sessions, with some nice remixing by RC. Arguably, those tracks lent something of a contemporary sound that made "Lovelines" feel fresh despite being composed mostly of late '70s outtakes. It is a great album, in my opinion probably their best (non-holiday, non-"hits") release after "Horizon".
 
Look To Your Dreams, apparently a 1974 composition !
So, in terms of an evolution, I would say Richard Carpenter definitely evolved: say, from "Mr.Guder" to "Dreams."
Composition-wise, I thought his early material was not so great....but, composition-wise Only Yesterday and I Need To Be In Love show an evident (and, much appreciated !) evolution in his songwriting. (Which I lament--- that he did so little of, later in their career).
But, what an interesting thing it is to hear how Karen's vocal nuances and acrobatics evolved !
That evolution, from Karen Carpenter Looking For Love to Karen Carpenter Remember When Lovin' Took All Night is phenomenal !

^^^ This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for! I agree, between 1969 to 1974, Richard came on in leaps and bounds (and arguably even by 1973, when he wrote perhaps the most majestic song in his canon, Yesterday Once More). Although Karen's voice was no less recognisable by the end of her career, her technical prowess was far superior. Her nuances, phrasing and control were amazing by the time she was laying down tracks like The Uninvited Guest in 1980. Even the vocal acrobatics of her solo album and tracks like Without A Song are without equal: I don't think they could have done them earlier in their career. That kind of technique only comes when you're at the top of your game, both vocally and in terms of sheer studio experience and arranging prowess. By 1980, they had both in spades. Which is why an album like Made In America is, comparatively, such a let down.

What failed to evolved--apparently--was the utilization of those signature Carpenters' background (Karen/Richard) vocals.
It rather went chronologically backwards to the Frank Pooler-inspired Choral days at CSLB.

That's a very interesting observation and I've never thought of that analogy before. They started with a group choral sound (CSLB, Summerchimes, Spectrum), then took those duties over themselves, only to relinquish them and revert back again - largely as a result of Karen's passing.

By the way---great thread !

Thank you :)
 
Here is a case in point:
For All We Know is almost a carbon-copy of Leave Yesterday Behind.
Whether the composer/writers intended such is beyond me.
But, as it pertains to Carpenters' evolution, a rather large disparity.
Not altogether a fair comparison--given that the later was "finished" after 1983,
but...
arrangements between the two songs show opposing trends.
Whereas For All We Know pulls out all of the stops,
the later song sits there and does nothing.
Karen's vocals are smooth as ever on both,
but the decision to even record the later song in 1978,
shows a definite lack of that earlier Carpenters' creativity and signature 'sound'.......
 
Several of their later songs echo, or perhaps have the same writer of, their earlier material. "Those Good Old Dreams", "Your Baby Doesn't Love You...", "Beechwood", and the aforementioned "Leave Yesterday Behind" come to mind. Poor guys were probably exhausted and just hoping lightning would strike twice -- surely it's hard to feel like you're going nowhere.

As much as I love "Lovelines", I probably listen to "Offering" several times more. Before their success literally consumed them and spit them back out, they were ambitious and did what they wanted to do (despite its hit potential). Besides, I'm a sucker for Carpenter/Bettis "Spectrum-era" songs anyway. :D

Despite their ups and downs (any group experiences these), my heart belongs to Karen and Rich :love:
 
Poor guys were probably exhausted and just hoping lightning would strike twice -- surely it's hard to feel like you're going nowhere.

Knowing what we do now of their insatiable hunger for success and obsessive tracking of their singles' progress on Billboard, I'd say that's probably a fair assumption to make. They went from watching their songs "bubbling under", to seeing them with a bullet against them and finally to not even see them reach the top 40. Given their God-given talents, that had to mystify them a lot from 1976 onwards.
 
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So, "Ticket To Ride" gets a brilliant re-make, an arrangement in 1969, by Richard Carpenter.
Then, 1978 rolls in and he would rather turn to Paul Riser to arrange I Believe You,
instead of turning in another brilliant arrangement for Thank You For The Music ?
Or--since the song is still "in the vaults"--who knows--maybe he did give it a brilliant arrangement !

But--on to "evolution,"
when I see 1968's Dancing In The Street---Karen on drums, Richard at the keyboard (both, in great form),
then, I watch 1978's Tonight Show performance of the From This Moment On
(not a Richard Carpenter arrangement),

I can't help but asking, did they purposefully "evolve" into that ?



 
I never would have guessed, upon first listen, that Lovelines wasn't a "normal" album. It's very put together and runs flawlessly. I still don't understand how "Kiss Me.." was not a single or previously released. That is a production!

Besides not being a single, it's surprising that Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night has never been anthologized. Really, The Uninvited Guest, Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night, Honolulu City Lights & Slow Dance are some of the best tracks that the Carpenters ever recorded.

Of course I could easily have seen these four tracks appearing on Made In America. Kiss Me The... could've replaced Those Good Old Dreams, Slow Dance could've replaced Because We Are In Love, The Uninvited Guest replacing Somebody's Been Lying and Honolulu City Lights could've replaced I Believe You.
 
On the topic:
Here is Paul Bloch, Carpenters publicist, February 1983:
"she...had planned a new album this month and a summer tour of the United States."

And, in the recent 2016 Nation's Favorites telecast, Richard Carpenter says..."we were just getting started."

Thus, I was wondering, exactly what was planned for recording that month in 1983 ?
Presumably, songs would already have been chosen, as recording studio had been booked for the following week.

Paul Bloch Source:
The Dispatch - Google News Archive Search »

September 1999:
" She is still our treasure, and we feel cheated knowing that Karen, herself, had Only Just Begun."
From:
Palo Verde Valley Times - Google News Archive Search »
 
On the topic:
Here is Paul Bloch, Carpenters publicist, February 1983:
"she...had planned a new album this month and a summer tour of the United States."

And, in the recent 2016 Nation's Favorites telecast, Richard Carpenter says..."we were just getting started."

Thus, I was wondering, exactly what was planned for recording that month in 1983 ?
Presumably, songs would already have been chosen, as recording studio had been booked for the following week.

Paul Bloch Source:
The Dispatch - Google News Archive Search »

September 1999:
" She is still our treasure, and we feel cheated knowing that Karen, herself, had Only Just Begun."
From:
Palo Verde Valley Times - Google News Archive Search »

I'd probably take those comments with a pinch of salt. They clearly hadn't recorded enough material (nor does it seem that there was much planned immediately in early 1983) to have released another album and tour by the summer.

I'd take Richard's recent comment more to mean they had plenty of years left in their professional lives rather than that they were building to a new professional/creative high in their career - as has been discussed on here before, their days of scoring bit hits were probably over by this point and there's no sense of there being much vision in terms of how their 'evolution' was going to continue.
 
Generally, Rumbahbah, I would agree that one should take the comment by Paul Bloch with a grain of salt.
However, Paul Bloch ( of Rogers and Cowan Agency) was a seasoned publicist.
Hard to fathom at that juncture that he would not have valid information on this point.
(Otherwise, why even mention it ?)

Two more sources, among many more:

Here is UPI (from the UPI Archives) :
"The Carpenters finished their last album, 'Made In America,' in 1981 and were going into the studio for a new album later this month."
Source:
ww.upi.com/Archives/1983/02/04/Pop-singer-Karen-Carpenter-who-recorded-a-string-of/4403413182800/

Then, the New York Times:
"According to Paul Bloch, a spokesman for the Carpenters, the brother and sister were planning to tour and record a new album this year."
 
On the topic:
Here is Paul Bloch, Carpenters publicist, February 1983:
"she...had planned a new album this month and a summer tour of the United States."


Thus, I was wondering, exactly what was planned for recording that month in 1983 ?
Presumably, songs would already have been chosen, as recording studio had been booked for the following week.

I remember reading somewhere that "Something In Your Eyes" was already written by late-1982 and that Karen was very excited to record it. And with Richard's "apology" in the linear notes for "Time", I wonder if a few of the other tracks on the album had been selected by Richard and Karen for recording in 1983, but because of Karen's death were never recorded by Karen.
 
I remember reading somewhere that "Something In Your Eyes" was already written by late-1982 and that Karen was very excited to record it. And with Richard's "apology" in the linear notes for "Time", I wonder if a few of the other tracks on the album had been selected by Richard and Karen for recording in 1983, but because of Karen's death were never recorded by Karen.

I think that anecdote you read refers to the song In Love Alone, which Richard wrote in late 1982 with John Bettis and had intended to play for Karen at a party he was hosting, but Karen never made it.
 
I'd probably take those comments with a pinch of salt. They clearly hadn't recorded enough material (nor does it seem that there was much planned immediately in early 1983) to have released another album and tour by the summer.

I'd take Richard's recent comment more to mean they had plenty of years left in their professional lives rather than that they were building to a new professional/creative high in their career - as has been discussed on here before, their days of scoring bit hits were probably over by this point and there's no sense of there being much vision in terms of how their 'evolution' was going to continue.
"We knew somehow the song would never end
When time was all we had to spend"
Richard Carpenter, Time
 
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