Ray Coleman Biography
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Wow, bless you both. It seems everyone's life here has been touched by their music, and continues to be. Kind of off-topic for this thread, but just want to say how grateful I am for this forum....it's not only a tremendous wealth of information, but often a wonderful refuge to seek solace with like-minded individuals of our favorite artists, and from so many that you never knew existed. How many of us thought we were always alone in our musical tastes, ridiculed as teens and growing adults, and believe it or not, still get some rolled-eyes even today at the mention of our love of Carpenters music? Nice to know you're not alone. And Gary Alan, a special thanks to you for all of the articles, reviews, interviews, memorabilia pics, etc. that you've posted over the past few weeks....many I'd never seen before, and I thought that I'd spent years searching for all-things Carpenters. What a treat, hope you have more!
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
That picture above (with the note about Karen's passing on Feb 4th) is one of Karen during the solo sessions that I have never seen before. I know that because the shirt she's wearing is seen in other photos of her during the solo recording sessions and it also credits Bonnie Schiffman, who took some of solo photos in 1979/1980. Nice to see that, thanks for sharing! 
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newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
You're welcome
Claude Mougin is the other person who took the photos of Karen that we now associate with her solo record jacket and what would have been the inside pictures. If you google "Claude Mougin Karen Carpenter", up come a range of photos from those sessions.
Claude Mougin is the other person who took the photos of Karen that we now associate with her solo record jacket and what would have been the inside pictures. If you google "Claude Mougin Karen Carpenter", up come a range of photos from those sessions.
cam89
Well-Known Member
That photo is the one where I first saw Karen Carpenter in our health text books, back in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Except it was a bigger photo, and she had her two hands holding up the chins of Phil Ramone and a blonde guy (don't know his name). It said, "Singer Karen Carpenter died of a heart attack, brought on by years of battling anorexia nervosa in 1983." But I remember being shocked as to why anyone would want to starve themselves, it was very bizarre. Then I went home, and showed Mom, who was in the kitchen, peeling carrots and cutting up potatoes, and she gasped and told me to take it away, when I showed her the picture of a gaunt Karen Carpenter, whom I didn't know anything really at this point. I asked Mom, what kind of singer was she? Mom said, we have her music, on the 8-Track (this was Spring 1988), so I went searching thru our basket tray of 8Tracks, and couldn't find it, and then Mom pulled out THE SINGLES 1969-1973. I remember looking at it, but thought it was boring acid rock or hard rock from the 1970's. But I put it on, and was immediately blown away by the heavenly sounds. I thought the Carpenters were a huge band, and that's why there was lots of voices. When I looked at the back of the 8-Track, there was a tiny black and white photo of two men, who I had previously thought, two hippies! Upon closer inspection I realized it was a man and a woman on a bridge....at this time I didn't know they were brother and sister...I thought maybe they were married. A few weeks later, upon going to the library, I thought I would see if they had anymore albums, so I was checking thru the LPs and found MADE IN AMERICA. I was so pleased to see a new and beautiful color photo of them. I thought they were husband and wife and that she was of Latin descent, as he looked lighter than her! Then I got VOICE OF THE HEART and after that A KIND OF HUSH. Then I bought The Singles 1974-1978 as a cassette, but my new album purchase was CLOSE TO YOU in Sept 1988 (I was 16) and loved this album, and loved the album cover....I thought they looked handsome and beautiful....always been one of my fave album covers of theirs.....
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
As most are aware (or,not!), I have been re-reading Coleman these last few days.
Has it dawned on anyone that very little is detailed regarding the Horizon sessions?
The album, and its encompassing tunes, is given very little discussion( pp.182-184 essentially,one of those pages with song lyrics).
The A&M Compendium from June 1975 gives much more information than this biography.( An interview and Nolan's journalistic essay.)
Much could have been incorporated from that pamphlet into the Coleman book. (He could have utilized many more source materials.)
Just another peculiarity I noted while revisiting this authorized biographical work.
Has it dawned on anyone that very little is detailed regarding the Horizon sessions?
The album, and its encompassing tunes, is given very little discussion( pp.182-184 essentially,one of those pages with song lyrics).
The A&M Compendium from June 1975 gives much more information than this biography.( An interview and Nolan's journalistic essay.)
Much could have been incorporated from that pamphlet into the Coleman book. (He could have utilized many more source materials.)
Just another peculiarity I noted while revisiting this authorized biographical work.
Attachments
Geographer
Well-Known Member
One has to take both books with a healthy degree of skepticism. One is the "official" biography, of which the "Carpenters" organization had editorial control; the other, a "tell-all" account from Karen's girlfriends (essentially). Both had agendas to get their version across. Although I find "Little Girl Blue" a much easier read...and gap filler for sure...it is, kind of, the other "extreme" in the story of Karen and Richard compared the Coleman book. I expect Karen's friends to tell their version with a bit of hyperbole and exaggerated emphasis as much as I find the "official" account told with some hesitation. I think that the "real" truth is somewhere in the middle. As a consumer of this information, one must also be analytical and thoughtful of the motives involved in both accounts.
And before I get any angry response, I am NOT casting aspersions on EITHER author. Both told the best story possible based on the best information available. Unfortunately, A LOT of the information was based on "eye witness" accounts that are naturally biased by the ones telling it. And, sometimes, we want to believe the most scandalous version of a story when, sometimes (probably most of the time), the simpler more subdued version is often closest to the truth.
song4u
Well-Known Member
It's only natural that people close to Karen would be very emotional in the telling of her story, versus an observer from a distance. I think that's the main difference. I appreciated both reads as they complement each other.
There's plenty we don't know regarding Karen's struggles the last few years of her life. Tom Burris did her no favors. I believe the comments made in the book just scrape the tragic surface.
I can understand the viewpoint that Karen's friends were somewhat tainted in their attitudes and memories of Burris during his regrettable time with her.
That being said, these people were there when it happened and saw it all unfold. Her fans were not. And what they saw unfold wasn't pretty. And they know a hell of a lot more than we do.
I can understand the viewpoint that Karen's friends were somewhat tainted in their attitudes and memories of Burris during his regrettable time with her.
That being said, these people were there when it happened and saw it all unfold. Her fans were not. And what they saw unfold wasn't pretty. And they know a hell of a lot more than we do.
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GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
We read, in the Coleman Biography, page 230:
"That was partly why it had been hard to find a producer to succeed him (sic.,Richard Carpenter-1977)
In the Yesterday Once More :Carpenters Reader (Moran,1978 Interview) we find:
Q: Have you ever given any thought to using an outside producer, particularly during the last couple of years?
A: Richard-"No"
Perhaps I am misinterpreting the Coleman Biography, but it seems that Coleman implies that Richard had entertained the
thought of bringing on a different producer for Passage.
However, this is not validated through the 1978 interview May (12th?) 1978.
"That was partly why it had been hard to find a producer to succeed him (sic.,Richard Carpenter-1977)
In the Yesterday Once More :Carpenters Reader (Moran,1978 Interview) we find:
Q: Have you ever given any thought to using an outside producer, particularly during the last couple of years?
A: Richard-"No"
Perhaps I am misinterpreting the Coleman Biography, but it seems that Coleman implies that Richard had entertained the
thought of bringing on a different producer for Passage.
However, this is not validated through the 1978 interview May (12th?) 1978.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
What's also interesting is why this question was even asked. Why say "particularly during the last couple of years", unless it's a veiled attempt to say their records and chart performances haven't been up to par in the past couple of years??
BarryT60
Well-Known Member
Spoiler Alert... Long and Dull - - only read if you are bored stiff!!!! - - - - - -
Reading through these comments – I am just amazed at how lucky we are that this forum exists! Could I ever hope to run into someone who hears Karen’s voice out of the blue when tragedy is striking, or pulls together information from various resources to really get a better handle on what really was going on back in the day…
I feel I have a bunch of friends here – who by in large appreciated some really great music – and the creators of such, and refuse to let the memories fade away…
I love it!
Philosophically, regarding all the books and articles, I wanted to also add that people have “stuff”. I have had stuff. I am finding out that almost every family is dysfunctional and ones that you don’t think are – are anyway!
Early deaths do cause allot of introspection and reflection… Could the right fan latter have changed Karen’s opinion when she looked into the mirror? Could the right relationship have changed her trajectory? Could the solo album’s success or possible mediocrity in sales have changed her seemingly lengthy dependency on Ipecac? In not nearly the same way – I’m a little compulsive also… So – I can see her coming back to LA – all proud of her a$$ with Dionne Warwick – and still saying to herself…. ‘this weight is okay – but let’s not get carried away’ and resorted to the Ipecac… to just stay put weight-wise…
The fact that she hung so frequently with her mom and dad says to me – she was able to cycle through the good and the bad – and come out knowing they cared – and still was optimistic about a future – now that she got the bad stuff out of the way with Tom. And by the way, many of us have had a Tom – or a relationship that was just B A D – that needed to be dealt with.
The silver lining in Karen’s story is that she HAD dealt with him. She had seemingly been near rounding the corner on her self-esteem issues that were the root of the eating disorder. As for the solo project, I also suspect that had she lived, she’d have remained friends with Ramone, and recorded more with him once Made In America wasn’t a major success. Or found another producer… Quincy Jones would have been pretty terrific… She obviously liked recording solo – and with Richard – so had she had the chance to mature and learn even more how to stand on her own two feet – she may have well decided to try even a fresher approach to some solo recordings…
I hate that Karen may have found a crutch to maintain weight – with that damned syrup… I hate that the first trainer used CARBS to try to assist her in losing weight. But the poor baby - - just wasn’t armed with the right information – and did the best she could…. Like Richard did. And I suspect, like Agnes did…
So – where are we now? With a library of perfect recordings to admire and cherish. Like some – I try NOT to listen to them regularly, so when I do hear Karen’s voice – it’s just a little fresher than it would have been had I heard it only yesterday… Like some, I pine away at the thought of hearing just one more new recording… But there’s a Diamond Rio song, called ‘One More Day’ that might sum up my thoughts on that…. ‘But then again, I know what it would do…. Leave me wishing still for one more day (song from) with you’…
Forgive this lengthy diatribe. I have often wanted to go on a very long and probably boring but cathartic writing episode here…. so now I have…. If you left earlier, I certainly understand why!!! If you stayed this long, I appreciate your time!
Now for a one final and really quite bizarre confession… Sometimes (not often – but sometimes), when I am alone running, or maybe just standing in the shower – or just alone with nothing on my mind… I say their names…out loud… Like a DJ might have… Karen and Richard Carpenter. Even their names had a musical ring to them… And I miss hearing even that much recognition on the radio… So – I just say the words… Maybe in the universe, Karen’s spirit will hear it? Maybe it just makes me feel better to say it? Or maybe I’m nuts. But where else in this world can I confess this little bit of crazy fandom-ness?
Thanks for reading this rambling mess…. Ciao – 4 – Now…
Reading through these comments – I am just amazed at how lucky we are that this forum exists! Could I ever hope to run into someone who hears Karen’s voice out of the blue when tragedy is striking, or pulls together information from various resources to really get a better handle on what really was going on back in the day…
I feel I have a bunch of friends here – who by in large appreciated some really great music – and the creators of such, and refuse to let the memories fade away…
I love it!
Philosophically, regarding all the books and articles, I wanted to also add that people have “stuff”. I have had stuff. I am finding out that almost every family is dysfunctional and ones that you don’t think are – are anyway!
Early deaths do cause allot of introspection and reflection… Could the right fan latter have changed Karen’s opinion when she looked into the mirror? Could the right relationship have changed her trajectory? Could the solo album’s success or possible mediocrity in sales have changed her seemingly lengthy dependency on Ipecac? In not nearly the same way – I’m a little compulsive also… So – I can see her coming back to LA – all proud of her a$$ with Dionne Warwick – and still saying to herself…. ‘this weight is okay – but let’s not get carried away’ and resorted to the Ipecac… to just stay put weight-wise…
The fact that she hung so frequently with her mom and dad says to me – she was able to cycle through the good and the bad – and come out knowing they cared – and still was optimistic about a future – now that she got the bad stuff out of the way with Tom. And by the way, many of us have had a Tom – or a relationship that was just B A D – that needed to be dealt with.
The silver lining in Karen’s story is that she HAD dealt with him. She had seemingly been near rounding the corner on her self-esteem issues that were the root of the eating disorder. As for the solo project, I also suspect that had she lived, she’d have remained friends with Ramone, and recorded more with him once Made In America wasn’t a major success. Or found another producer… Quincy Jones would have been pretty terrific… She obviously liked recording solo – and with Richard – so had she had the chance to mature and learn even more how to stand on her own two feet – she may have well decided to try even a fresher approach to some solo recordings…
I hate that Karen may have found a crutch to maintain weight – with that damned syrup… I hate that the first trainer used CARBS to try to assist her in losing weight. But the poor baby - - just wasn’t armed with the right information – and did the best she could…. Like Richard did. And I suspect, like Agnes did…
So – where are we now? With a library of perfect recordings to admire and cherish. Like some – I try NOT to listen to them regularly, so when I do hear Karen’s voice – it’s just a little fresher than it would have been had I heard it only yesterday… Like some, I pine away at the thought of hearing just one more new recording… But there’s a Diamond Rio song, called ‘One More Day’ that might sum up my thoughts on that…. ‘But then again, I know what it would do…. Leave me wishing still for one more day (song from) with you’…
Forgive this lengthy diatribe. I have often wanted to go on a very long and probably boring but cathartic writing episode here…. so now I have…. If you left earlier, I certainly understand why!!! If you stayed this long, I appreciate your time!
Now for a one final and really quite bizarre confession… Sometimes (not often – but sometimes), when I am alone running, or maybe just standing in the shower – or just alone with nothing on my mind… I say their names…out loud… Like a DJ might have… Karen and Richard Carpenter. Even their names had a musical ring to them… And I miss hearing even that much recognition on the radio… So – I just say the words… Maybe in the universe, Karen’s spirit will hear it? Maybe it just makes me feel better to say it? Or maybe I’m nuts. But where else in this world can I confess this little bit of crazy fandom-ness?
Thanks for reading this rambling mess…. Ciao – 4 – Now…
Jamesj75
Well-Known Member
Barry, I feel compelled to disagree with you! Only in the sense that what you have written is not at all "long," "dull" or a "rambling mess." I thoroughly enjoyed what you've written.
There have been times I felt I, too, went long with certain posts. Yet I can be long-winded anyway. I will try to avoid that here...You have given quite a generous tribute to the other posters: "I feel I have a bunch of friends here." I totally agree with you. I read this site for several years before I started posting. For a while, I felt that the frequent posters were so knowledgeable that it was intimidating. But finally I felt I wanted my voice to be heard. I wanted to share, to contribute. I have learned so much here, and I have found so much to admire here. My life indeed has been enriched by my involvement. Here we are treated to like-minded individuals with whom we converse, sometimes even disagree, but, bottom line, we are Carpenters' fans, and that is what unites us. There are people here who are passionate, knowledgeable, insightful, inspirational... You can't help but "like" that!
And you have eloquently given astute and reasoned analysis of Karen's self-esteem issues. How we all wish things had played out so differently with Karen. I think that is the reason why so many of us are desperate to hear more music from Karen because, for us, there is unfinished business; Karen's life ended far too soon...
I like your philosophy of not wanting to listen to Carpenters everyday, so that you can better appreciate Karen's voice when you do hear her sing. Similarly, if one had filet mignon everyday, would it not lose its appeal? Would the appreciation not diminish? And Karen's voice was indeed the filet mignon in a world of so much hamburger. I also like your confession of saying "Karen and Richard Carpenter" aloud. I will stay with my culinary analogy and call that comfort food. I have always found comfort in Karen's voice, when they were recording and even to this day...
So, Barry, be as open and long-winded as you wish. You are among friends here.
ullalume
Well-Known Member
Oh my god, yes it was. October of '93/'94 or '94. . .think '94. I was a mere 16. . .Neil's the name. Did we meet, did we chat. . .the one with Coleman, right. I just remember being mesmerized by all the video footage. . .like all of MMM or something.
Sorry, off-topic.
Someday
Well-Known Member
Yes, I'm pretty sure it was '94. Ray Coleman signed my 'Only Yesterday' LP. I remember someone had a bootleg (cassette!) of the solo album, before it had been released. We may have chatted, but who knows, ha! I had a file full of official fan-club photos, of which many people seemed envious ...
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Page 317 of Coleman references Karen's visit to her physician in California:
"....the doctor refused to reveal to Agnes (Carpenter) the reason her daughter had visited him."
(Other sources have this Dr. Monnet visit as occurring on January 10, 1983: Wherein "...She had appeared in good health.").
But, then, Coleman recounts the St. Germain restaurant incident on January 14, 1983, wherein Richard Carpenter and Dennis Heath
witnessed the "...sheer terror on her face..." and, subsequent visit that night to the recording studio to listen to the
playbacks from the previous April 1982 sessions, "..that night, she could neither stand nor sit near the control booth."
The other source has late March 1983 (and a copy thereof) as the date of independent toxicology results showing
.48 mg per gm of emetine in the liver.That report also describes that after three months of cessation 1.1 mg could still be present---
(Apologies to sensitivity of the issue herein.)
What really is absent from all of these sources is a clear indication as to Karen Carpenters' true state of health. (Nov 1982 and later)
The doctor visit, on the 10th January, did not raise any flags with the attending physician....How can that be?
In many ways, I do concur with Richard Carpenter: It is not really known why this occurred at that time.
If Karen's personal physician felt 'she appeared in good health' on the 10th, then, how does one correlate that with what
Richard and Dennis saw on the 14th January.
Therefore, Richard Carpenter is left with many unanswered questions .
Thus, in many ways I understand the ambiguity which permeates much of the Coleman Biography.
If the nagging questions frustrate my sensibilities, I can not fathom what Richard Carpenter has endured.
It is no less sad today as it was yesteryear.
As my mother (recently) put it : "I still have not gotten over the shock."
"....the doctor refused to reveal to Agnes (Carpenter) the reason her daughter had visited him."
(Other sources have this Dr. Monnet visit as occurring on January 10, 1983: Wherein "...She had appeared in good health.").
But, then, Coleman recounts the St. Germain restaurant incident on January 14, 1983, wherein Richard Carpenter and Dennis Heath
witnessed the "...sheer terror on her face..." and, subsequent visit that night to the recording studio to listen to the
playbacks from the previous April 1982 sessions, "..that night, she could neither stand nor sit near the control booth."
The other source has late March 1983 (and a copy thereof) as the date of independent toxicology results showing
.48 mg per gm of emetine in the liver.That report also describes that after three months of cessation 1.1 mg could still be present---
(Apologies to sensitivity of the issue herein.)
What really is absent from all of these sources is a clear indication as to Karen Carpenters' true state of health. (Nov 1982 and later)
The doctor visit, on the 10th January, did not raise any flags with the attending physician....How can that be?
In many ways, I do concur with Richard Carpenter: It is not really known why this occurred at that time.
If Karen's personal physician felt 'she appeared in good health' on the 10th, then, how does one correlate that with what
Richard and Dennis saw on the 14th January.
Therefore, Richard Carpenter is left with many unanswered questions .
Thus, in many ways I understand the ambiguity which permeates much of the Coleman Biography.
If the nagging questions frustrate my sensibilities, I can not fathom what Richard Carpenter has endured.
It is no less sad today as it was yesteryear.
As my mother (recently) put it : "I still have not gotten over the shock."
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
As quoted from Coleman, Page 317:
"...A perplexing experience awaited Richard when...he met Karen for dinner on January 14th,1983.
"The look of sheer terror and pain on Karen's face was frightening to behold.
Richard asked, "What is it?"
"Something, something, she sputtered. Karen couldn't or wouldn't go beyond those words."
"Richard found the experience that night "really upsetting."
"Her datebook for the next day records one word: Rest."
"...A perplexing experience awaited Richard when...he met Karen for dinner on January 14th,1983.
"The look of sheer terror and pain on Karen's face was frightening to behold.
Richard asked, "What is it?"
"Something, something, she sputtered. Karen couldn't or wouldn't go beyond those words."
"Richard found the experience that night "really upsetting."
"Her datebook for the next day records one word: Rest."
Yes, she told Richard that she had gotten her period back that night. She was also seeing spots before her eyes during her last days. She did go to the doctor, so something was bothering her. In fact, she visited him just one day before the Grammy photo session, where she made her final public appearance.
It sounds like it doesn't really matter, though, because the damage was done by that time. If only she'd gotten help sooner. But her passing sure as hell helped a lot of other people. That being said, the loss was immeasurable.
It sounds like it doesn't really matter, though, because the damage was done by that time. If only she'd gotten help sooner. But her passing sure as hell helped a lot of other people. That being said, the loss was immeasurable.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Richard Carpenter, an interview in the Lawrence Journal News,November 1983:
Entitled- No Outtakes on Carpenters' Album
"I'd never heard of Anorexia Nervosa in 1975 but later I did a lot of reading about it.
I'd explain my concern that her being too thin would hurt her. But, the victim of Anorexia
has to know they are really suffering from it themselves before any action is going to be taken."
"Our last touring was in 1976. In 1977 we cut Passage, did TV and Las Vegas and Lake Tahoe.
"In 1978 we did Christmas Portrait. We love Christmas music and there's enough left to make
another Christmas album. I'd love to see that happen."
"In late November 1981 she took a suite at a hotel in New York and started with a therapist who
specialized in Anorexia, trying to get at the cause of why it took hold of Karen. She and her husband
had separated before she left California."
Source:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...CUzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XOgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4990,4067991
Entitled- No Outtakes on Carpenters' Album
"I'd never heard of Anorexia Nervosa in 1975 but later I did a lot of reading about it.
I'd explain my concern that her being too thin would hurt her. But, the victim of Anorexia
has to know they are really suffering from it themselves before any action is going to be taken."
"Our last touring was in 1976. In 1977 we cut Passage, did TV and Las Vegas and Lake Tahoe.
"In 1978 we did Christmas Portrait. We love Christmas music and there's enough left to make
another Christmas album. I'd love to see that happen."
"In late November 1981 she took a suite at a hotel in New York and started with a therapist who
specialized in Anorexia, trying to get at the cause of why it took hold of Karen. She and her husband
had separated before she left California."
Source:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...CUzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XOgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4990,4067991
Earlier in this thread, someone asked whether, in Little Girl Blue, Itchie's comment about Karen being "bruised-up" meant that Tom Burris had hit her. I think it likely did, but that Schmidt's book was "lawyered," as we say in publishing, and that any further commentary on potential physical abuse was deleted because of concerns about libel action by Tom Burris. Richard Carpenter may have bought his silence about the Carpenters, but that probably wouldn't preclude legal action to defend his own reputation if he were accused of a criminal act like assault.
I've written a number of books, one a ghostwritten memoir for a female celebrity who was physically abused by her ex-husband. She very much wanted to include this in the book, and felt it was central to her life story. The publisher had the manuscript lawyered and we were instructed to delete this whole section from the book because, despite being hospitalized subsequent to one of this guy's attacks, the celebrity had never reported her husband to the police or pressed charges. There was concern that he might sue, it would become a "he-said-she-said," and the publisher would then be dragged into expensive litigation and could be held liable. This was a major international publishing house with deep pockets, much bigger than Schmidt's publisher, and they turned tail and ran, pronto. Publishing is a tough way to make money these days; a libel case can kill a book and even wipe out a small publishing house. In the end, we were allowed to keep one very wishy-washy paragraph that suggested the woman was endangered but you had to read between the lines to figure out how, exactly, and even so, you couldn't be sure. That one paragraph was so heavily lawyered that it was just a whitewash, and any further discussion of the issue was out of the question.
So my guess is that Schmidt was permitted to keep the quote because it's attributed to a third party, it's not Schmidt's own words or opinion, and it's ambiguous--here we are, still wondering whether Itchie was talking about literal or metaphorical bruising--but any editorializing or expansion on the topic was forbidden, for legal reasons. It makes perfect sense, sadly, that Karen might have been physically abused -- and later in the book there's a quote from Frenda that certainly suggests she was. Karen "was in a hump, slumped over," Frenda recalls. "Oh my God, I was hysterical, I tried so hard to be calm because I had two babies there, but I had to help her in the house. I will never forget that day as long as I live. I said, 'That's it. It's over!' She never went back to that house again." (pp. 243-4). I don't think she's alluding to emotional distress here.
Maybe she was, though. I'm just posting because I know exactly why, as long as Tom Burris is alive, Randy Schmidt won't be able to spell it out even if Karen's friends say she was abused. And if she was, I doubt that Richard would want it known -- he's obviously fiercely private, and protective of their musical legacy, for good reason. The more Karen is seen as a victim, the less the focus is their music. Which I love as much as everyone else on this forum!
I've written a number of books, one a ghostwritten memoir for a female celebrity who was physically abused by her ex-husband. She very much wanted to include this in the book, and felt it was central to her life story. The publisher had the manuscript lawyered and we were instructed to delete this whole section from the book because, despite being hospitalized subsequent to one of this guy's attacks, the celebrity had never reported her husband to the police or pressed charges. There was concern that he might sue, it would become a "he-said-she-said," and the publisher would then be dragged into expensive litigation and could be held liable. This was a major international publishing house with deep pockets, much bigger than Schmidt's publisher, and they turned tail and ran, pronto. Publishing is a tough way to make money these days; a libel case can kill a book and even wipe out a small publishing house. In the end, we were allowed to keep one very wishy-washy paragraph that suggested the woman was endangered but you had to read between the lines to figure out how, exactly, and even so, you couldn't be sure. That one paragraph was so heavily lawyered that it was just a whitewash, and any further discussion of the issue was out of the question.
So my guess is that Schmidt was permitted to keep the quote because it's attributed to a third party, it's not Schmidt's own words or opinion, and it's ambiguous--here we are, still wondering whether Itchie was talking about literal or metaphorical bruising--but any editorializing or expansion on the topic was forbidden, for legal reasons. It makes perfect sense, sadly, that Karen might have been physically abused -- and later in the book there's a quote from Frenda that certainly suggests she was. Karen "was in a hump, slumped over," Frenda recalls. "Oh my God, I was hysterical, I tried so hard to be calm because I had two babies there, but I had to help her in the house. I will never forget that day as long as I live. I said, 'That's it. It's over!' She never went back to that house again." (pp. 243-4). I don't think she's alluding to emotional distress here.
Maybe she was, though. I'm just posting because I know exactly why, as long as Tom Burris is alive, Randy Schmidt won't be able to spell it out even if Karen's friends say she was abused. And if she was, I doubt that Richard would want it known -- he's obviously fiercely private, and protective of their musical legacy, for good reason. The more Karen is seen as a victim, the less the focus is their music. Which I love as much as everyone else on this forum!
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Review by Choice Review
The Carpenters's 12 "Top 10" records in the 1970s helped make them the decade's fifth most popular "Top 40" act, according to Billboard. At a time when soft rock purveyed by such groups as Bread and Dawn dominated the AM airwaves, Karen and Richard Carpenter sold almost 100 million records. Despite their success, Coleman's authorized biography is the first on the duo. He relies heavily on interviews with family and friends, much as he did for Lennon (CH, Sep'85) and The Man Who Made the Beatles (CH, Nov'89), to name but two. At the heart of Coleman's five-part chronicle are the sections titled "A Middle-American Dream" and "Lonely Hearts," which focus most directly on the group's musical accomplishments. An appendix titled "Carpenters on Record" is far from complete, however; it lists only "A" sides of singles and album cuts and omits release dates, chart position, label and record number, and other information often used by researchers. Much of the book's remainder deals with Karen's anorexia and untimely death. Recommended only for its intended audience, general readers. H. A. Keesing; University of Maryland at College Park
Copyright American Library Association, used with permission.Review by Booklist Review
The Carpenters' music was assailed in its time as "treacle, drippy easy listening, or even schlock music." Its critics proceeded, however, from a false premise--that it was rock music. In the 1970s--the Carpenters' career zenith--rock was Rock, self-important and serious. But the Carpenters were creating pop, light and melodic. As the 1970s recede into history, the Carpenters' gentle music has begun to be appreciated on its own merits. It belongs to a lineage that includes Georgia Gibbs and, at its most powerful, Judy Garland, rather than that of the Carpenters' contemporaries Led Zeppelin and David Bowie. Coleman's authorized biography treats Karen and Richard Carpenter sympathetically, recounting her struggles with anorexia nervosa and evaluating her vocal abilities and his arranging talents as elements of a pop rather than a rock style. Their music may not have taken any risks, Coleman concludes, but it was well crafted and well executed. (The selected discography that follows the main text reminds us how extensive it was, too.) Regardless of how one feels about the Carpenters' music, Coleman's account of the brother-sister act is compelling, especially in its portrait of Karen as a talented, famous young woman in the grips of an overpowering disease then little known or understood. (Reviewed Mar. 1, 1994)0060183454Mike Tribby
From Booklist, Copyright (c) American Library Association. Used with permission.Review by Publisher's Weekly Review
Despite a clean-cut image that put them distinctly at odds with the glam-rock and disco styles of other '70's bands, the Carpenters, renowned for such mellifluous hits as ``Close to You'' and ``We've Only Just Begun,'' were one of the most successful pop acts of the time. But like many of their more flamboyant colleagues, they had problems: Richard Carpenter suffered through a bout of severe chemical dependency (from which he eventually recovered) while his sister Karen battled anorexia nervosa, resulting in her death in 1983. Although rock journalist Ray Coleman's ( Lennon ) authorized biography is ostensibly a history of the Carpenters' career as pop icons, it also doubles as a case study of an anorexic, beginning and ending with accounts of Karen's final days and recording in meticulous, and at times almost intrusive, detail her struggles with her weight and her self-image. Coleman avoids pathologizing Karen or offering pat explanations for her condition. Instead, he impartially weaves together commentary, ranging from the affectionate to the critical, about Karen and Richard's lives and careers from the various viewpoints of family members, friends and associates, including Richard Carpenter himself. Well-researched, well-written and less gossipy than most celebrity bios, this offers insights into the workings of the music industry. Photos not seen by PW. (Apr.) (c) Copyright PWxyz, LLC. All rights reserved
- See more at: http://www.buffalolib.org/vufind/Record/787934/Reviews#sthash.vDW93zqC.dpuf
The Carpenters's 12 "Top 10" records in the 1970s helped make them the decade's fifth most popular "Top 40" act, according to Billboard. At a time when soft rock purveyed by such groups as Bread and Dawn dominated the AM airwaves, Karen and Richard Carpenter sold almost 100 million records. Despite their success, Coleman's authorized biography is the first on the duo. He relies heavily on interviews with family and friends, much as he did for Lennon (CH, Sep'85) and The Man Who Made the Beatles (CH, Nov'89), to name but two. At the heart of Coleman's five-part chronicle are the sections titled "A Middle-American Dream" and "Lonely Hearts," which focus most directly on the group's musical accomplishments. An appendix titled "Carpenters on Record" is far from complete, however; it lists only "A" sides of singles and album cuts and omits release dates, chart position, label and record number, and other information often used by researchers. Much of the book's remainder deals with Karen's anorexia and untimely death. Recommended only for its intended audience, general readers. H. A. Keesing; University of Maryland at College Park
Copyright American Library Association, used with permission.Review by Booklist Review
The Carpenters' music was assailed in its time as "treacle, drippy easy listening, or even schlock music." Its critics proceeded, however, from a false premise--that it was rock music. In the 1970s--the Carpenters' career zenith--rock was Rock, self-important and serious. But the Carpenters were creating pop, light and melodic. As the 1970s recede into history, the Carpenters' gentle music has begun to be appreciated on its own merits. It belongs to a lineage that includes Georgia Gibbs and, at its most powerful, Judy Garland, rather than that of the Carpenters' contemporaries Led Zeppelin and David Bowie. Coleman's authorized biography treats Karen and Richard Carpenter sympathetically, recounting her struggles with anorexia nervosa and evaluating her vocal abilities and his arranging talents as elements of a pop rather than a rock style. Their music may not have taken any risks, Coleman concludes, but it was well crafted and well executed. (The selected discography that follows the main text reminds us how extensive it was, too.) Regardless of how one feels about the Carpenters' music, Coleman's account of the brother-sister act is compelling, especially in its portrait of Karen as a talented, famous young woman in the grips of an overpowering disease then little known or understood. (Reviewed Mar. 1, 1994)0060183454Mike Tribby
From Booklist, Copyright (c) American Library Association. Used with permission.Review by Publisher's Weekly Review
Despite a clean-cut image that put them distinctly at odds with the glam-rock and disco styles of other '70's bands, the Carpenters, renowned for such mellifluous hits as ``Close to You'' and ``We've Only Just Begun,'' were one of the most successful pop acts of the time. But like many of their more flamboyant colleagues, they had problems: Richard Carpenter suffered through a bout of severe chemical dependency (from which he eventually recovered) while his sister Karen battled anorexia nervosa, resulting in her death in 1983. Although rock journalist Ray Coleman's ( Lennon ) authorized biography is ostensibly a history of the Carpenters' career as pop icons, it also doubles as a case study of an anorexic, beginning and ending with accounts of Karen's final days and recording in meticulous, and at times almost intrusive, detail her struggles with her weight and her self-image. Coleman avoids pathologizing Karen or offering pat explanations for her condition. Instead, he impartially weaves together commentary, ranging from the affectionate to the critical, about Karen and Richard's lives and careers from the various viewpoints of family members, friends and associates, including Richard Carpenter himself. Well-researched, well-written and less gossipy than most celebrity bios, this offers insights into the workings of the music industry. Photos not seen by PW. (Apr.) (c) Copyright PWxyz, LLC. All rights reserved
- See more at: http://www.buffalolib.org/vufind/Record/787934/Reviews#sthash.vDW93zqC.dpuf
song4u
Well-Known Member
I have a question about Karen's life in Newport Beach. I don't remember much of anything being said about her time there with Tom in any bio. Like just when did she live there? Was it a home she owned previously or that she only lived in when married? Anyone have any info about it? ahem::GaryAlan::ahem.
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