Shout!Factory versus Herb Alpert Presents (plus Warms's "Sea Is My Soil")

[BBrownlie]

Although I have all of the Shout!Factory releases, I am very interested in getting the new reissues on Herb Alpert Presents.

So, I'm not trying to be obtuse, but am interested in even-handed comparison reviews before I spend the money.

Second, it is known that the 'Warm' track 'The Sea Is My Soil" had some tape wear and am wondering what the new reissue sounds like in that instance. Again, negativity on this issue won't necessarily deter me from buying the new reissue, more curiosity on my part.

 

[Bobberman]

The Cd Version of The sea is my soil sounds very good i havent heard the shout factory version of it but i too have all the shout factory Cds and to me the sound quality between the new remasters and the shout factory releases are very similar in terms of overall loudness and tone in my case though im only purchasing the titles that either were never released on CD and those i missed the first time they were released on Cd other than that i have everything else either on A&M. Almo sounds. Shout factory. And Concord. Etc. I think its a matter of personal preference IMO.and on a side note Volume 2 sounds much better than before Herb did say the sound of it was Harsh and Metallic originally. And now its much quieter and toned down a bit. A Big improvement I think.

 

[BBrownlie]

Thank you, Bobberman.

Shout!Factory released 'Warm' and 'Volume 2' as downloads only, not as CDs (I created my own CDs from these two downloads). From what I understand, as regards "Sea Is My Soil", there is distortion in the beginning. I don't hear it in the Shout!Factory release (I do hear tape hiss), which I listened to today. I have read that the distortion was caused by tape wear, from which I surmise might be poor storage of this one tape whenever it was returned to the vault. An easy enough mistake to make if one is not careful.

I've sat in with Bernie Grundman during some of his mastering sessions. He was always very nice and informative, and, let me hang out if I was quiet so he could work. So, having his name associated with these new reissues means something to me.

 

[Bobberman]

Bernie Grundman is truly an exceptional Mastering engineer All His work is exceptional all you have to do is just listen to any recording ( of which he has mastered hundreds of over the years) it all speaks for itself.

 

[Harry]

I don't have the new CD yet. It's in my second package which hasn't arrived. WARM is probably my most wanted CD ever and of course it's one of the ones in delivery Hell.

I HAVE listened to "The Sea Is My Soil" as a download however. It's the favorite song on the favorite album for me. The tape wear is sadly still evident on this download. It's mostly present for the first minute or so and then is not nearly as noticeable - but still there - well into the track. It breaks my heart to even think about it, but it is what it is.

I personally take solace in the fact that I own a very clean version from the original vinyl and will be playing needledrops of that in perpetuity.

 

[David S]

I have Warm in the new cd release - it came in the 18 disc haul my brother and I got last week - and I have the download of a few years ago (and the original vinyl, for that matter). Haven't played it yet, though. I've always liked this particular TJB record, though. Given my hearing loss issues, I doubt I'd notice any difference between versions. I do know that either the download or the new cd will be better that the vinyl that I have, which I bought at a second hand store back in the 1970s as a kid.

The new cd's that remain in "delivery hell" - I like that term, Harry - are: Coney Island, The Lonely Bull, and the You Smile - The Song Begins. Of those three, the one I'm most interested in is You Smile (I like practically the entire album but especially Fox Hunt, Legend of, Save the Sunlight, and Song for Herb). Amazon is currently saying one to three weeks for fulfillment.

 

[Rudy]

My vinyl copies are a mixed bag. The US version sounds better but has a little bit of wear to it (not too noticeable). The German DG pressing is dead quiet (and I bought it sealed) but the sound is a little subdued (I would guess they used a copy of the US master). The Shout Factory download has the breakup on the left channel quite clearly where the new HAP version tames that as best it can. And having the high-res version, it loses the grainy sound of the CD-res version and of course, worlds better than the garbled MP3 verison from Shout Factory.

 

[David S]

Correction: Amazon is now saying 1-2 months for fulfillment....

 

[David S]

My vinyl copies are a mixed bag. The US version sounds better but has a little bit of wear to it (not too noticeable). The German DG pressing is dead quiet (and I bought it sealed) but the sound is a little subdued (I would guess they used a copy of the US master). The Shout Factory download has the breakup on the left channel quite clearly where the new HAP version tames that as best it can. And having the high-res version, it loses the grainy sound of the CD-res version and of course, worlds better than the garbled MP3 version from Shout Factory.

I have been listening to a rip of the cd (to mp3, though at a high bit rate) and I can discern that this isn't the best sounding record. Even with not the best of hearing. I can imagine that, perhaps, this presented challenges for remastering. But I haven't compared it to the Shout! Factory version. I don't have a "high res" version to compare to, however.

That said, it's always been one of my more favored of the TJB recordings.

 

[spanky1]

Are there any liner notes with these? How about a photo of the cd booklet and inside the package?

 

[Harry]

There are no liner notes at all on any of these, other than whatever appeared on the back covers. There are no booklets - just the CDs inside a gatefold pocket. On one side of the gatefold is a graphic representation of the title and artist using the artwork, color and fonts from the front cover. Underneath that is a short credit section listing the original date of the recordings, Bernie Grundman's mastering, and the fellow who designed the CD artwork, Brian Porizek.

The right side of the gatefold has a track listing (though the CHRISTMAS ALBUM is missing this element).

 

[skybluethunderbird1960]

The Sea is My Soil isn't the only track from Warm that suffers from tape degradation or abnormalities. Zazuiera has some kind of fall out noise around the 0:27 mark. The 1980's A&M Greatest Hits Volume 2 CD version of Zazuiera and Shout Factory download doesnt have this noise. Its almost sounds like having a ear full of water that suddenly drains out and gets louder. I purchased some of the 1970's reissues as well. The only one from that bunch I noticed issues was "A Song For Herb" which has a loud glitch in it. Coney Island is probably the most pleasing to the ear sounding remaster from the never before on cd albums, really is truely underrated. I could listen to it all day.

 

[Harry]

Zazuiera has some kind of fall out noise around the 0:27 mark. The 1980's A&M Greatest Hits Volume 2 CD version of Zazuiera and Shout Factory download doesnt have this noise. Its almost sounds like having a ear full of water that suddenly drains out and gets louder.

You're right. For the first 27 seconds, "Zazueira" on the new HAP CD of WARM has a somewhat muted right channel that then opens up. I love your description of water draining out of your ear!

It's something of a disappointment that WARM, an album I've always loved and always wanted on CD, has to be one with such damage to a few of its tracks. "The Sea Is My Soil" is especially disappointing, though it does sound like they tried their best to clean it up. As I mentioned upthread, clean vinyl is the way to do justice to this album.

Hey, at least they go the title right this time - and not "The Sea Is My Soul".

 

[David S]

So, would a high res digital download of Warm sound better than the new cd release? Would a transfer to CD media present issues that a download might not? Keep in mind that I am not an audiophile or techie so this is a serious, honest question while seeking to learn.

 

[Bobberman]

You're right. For the first 27 seconds, "Zazueira" on the new HAP CD of WARM has a somewhat muted right channel that then opens up. I love your description of water draining out of your ear!

It's something of a disappointment that WARM, an album I've always loved and always wanted on CD, has to be one with such damage to a few of its tracks. "The Sea Is My Soil" is especially disappointing, though it does sound like they tried their best to clean it up. As I mentioned upthread, clean vinyl is the way to do justice to this album.

Hey, at least they go the title right this time - and not "The Sea Is My Soul".

I noticed that on Zazueira too. Thankfully i still have the clean vinyl LP with the needledrop CD as well as Greatest Hits Volume 2 Cd issue. So im covered. And as i mentioned im keeping everything for historic. Collecting and most of all Listening purposes.

 

[Rudy]

So, would a high res digital download of Warm sound better than the new cd release? Would a transfer to CD media present issues that a download might not?

It is the same mastering, so it would sound the same in terms of which tape was used (and the restoration done to the tape). Buying the high-res and downconverting for a CD or MP3 it is no different from what was done at the studio (although the software in the studio is "pro" level and would do a slightly better job of it than "consumer" software).

 

[Rudy]

For the flaws on these tapes, there is not much to do about it but accept the way they sound. Not only were some of them used dozens of times to create "product," some were on unstable tape stock that needed to be baked in order to stabilize it enough to play it through one time to transfer it to digital. (Do a Google search for "sticky shed syndrome" to get an idea.) I've encountered one of those affected tapes--a reel of Ampex 456. The shedding was so bad that it nearly completely clogged my tape head within ten minutes of playback.

As I have probably posted elsewhere, these releases are not specifically for collectors, but for younger generations who have not yet been exposed to the music. They have the authenticity of the original cover artwork but it's already been pointed out that there are no new additional liner notes. (These are very much in the spirit of the Japan "mini LP" reproductions.)

 

[Steven J. Gross]

I have the Amazon download of Warm and should have the CD by Thursday they say. Very excited.

 

[Bobberman]

I have the Amazon download of Warm and should have the CD by Thursday they say. Very excited.

In spite of the imperfections i think you will enjoy this CD immensely.

 

[David S]

Correction: Amazon is now saying 1-2 months for fulfillment....

Well, what was showing a few days as one to 1 months for fulfillment is supposedly getting ready to ship to me for two out of the three I still don't have. The outlier is You Smile, which frankly was one of the ones not on CD before that I really wanted. as I love Song for Herb.

 

[Rudy]

I'm sure it'll be along soon.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Well, I received Warm from Amazon, it's beautiful, but here's what I can say so far: The CD was shipped in a manilla envelope, not well protected, so an edge was not pristine, shame on Amazon.
I've compared my download to the CD- I find both very good but I'm slightly more impressed with the Amazon download. The Sea is my Soil is the red elephant- the mushy sound at 1:10 on both is a buzzkill- probably why it was painful for Herb to re-release (but I'm thrilled we have it).
The title "Sea is my Soil" shows "Soul" on the CD and download readout which is minor but ridiculous. Sloppy.
All in all, it's great to have it and the rest.

 

[Harry]

The title "Sea is my Soil" shows "Soul" on the CD and download readout

Minor disagreement here. The correct title "The Sea Is My Soil" is present on the back cover, the face of the CD, and in the interior track listing. It's even correct on the CD-Text.

By the way, I believe EVERY ONE of the new CDs use CD-Text technology. This will display Album Title and Song Title on CD players equipped to read and display such data. It's common in cars and some recent CD player/recorders.

The one place that "The Sea Is My Soul" may show up is with online databases like iTunes, CDDB, Gracenote, etc. When ripped into your computer, those databases may report the incorrect title, but that has nothing to do with the actual CD. The HAP disc is perfect in that respect.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

WHen the Shout! download of The Brass Are Comin' was released, the album's running order was resequenced -- and nobody seemed to know who did it or why, because no mention was ever made of it, unlike the Shout! version of Rise, which was also resequenced and had a notation saying such on the package.

Now we have the HAP version of The Brass Are Comin' and the album is restored to its original sequencing, and the intro to the title tune is now restored as well (it faded-in on the Shout! version).

This is an album I've always sort of relegated to the bottom of the heap when it came to TJB albums but I've gotten a new appreciation for it since the Shout! version came out -- up to then I had hardly listened to it much at all. So it's nice to now have a real authorized CD version of it.

 

[Harry]

Now we have the HAP version of The Brass Are Comin' and the album is restored to its original sequencing

And, as a bonus, have you noticed that the track list on the back cover is now in sequence? There was a dubious practice with album covers around that time to list them out of sequence on the jacket. Someone must have thought that to be cool or something. Anyway, it's now in sequence, the way it should have been all along.