The official S.R.O. comments thread and poll

What is your favorite track?

  • Our Day Will Come

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • Mexican Road Race

    Votes: 10 15.4%
  • I Will Wait For You

    Votes: 2 3.1%
  • Bean Bag

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • The Wall Street Rag

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • The Work Song

    Votes: 13 20.0%
  • Mame

    Votes: 2 3.1%
  • Blue Sunday

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Don't Go Breaking My Heart

    Votes: 6 9.2%
  • For Carlos

    Votes: 6 9.2%
  • Freight Train Joe

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Flamingo

    Votes: 15 23.1%

  • Total voters
    65
Status
Not open for further replies.
Mike Blakesley said:
Beat of the Brass ... The album opens with Slick

Check your record, dude.....the album opens with "Monday, Monday."

"Slick" is track 1 on side 2.

Mike, I have learned something new today...

I never really noticed that.

I got Beat of the Brass way back about the time it was released in 1968, and I never paid any attention whatsoever. Pretty much whenever I put it on the record player, I put the side with Slick on first because it was by far my favorite song on the album. I remember hearing it on the radio; the DJ on one of the popular local radio stations back then put it on when he signed off just before the 3:00 pm news.

I got so used to that I have assumed all these years that Slick was song 1 on side 1. Duh!

After listening to the album for awhile, I began to like The Robin, which is on the same side. The big hit of the times, This Guy's...is the end of that same side.

I listened to Monday, Monday, but not as much as the other side. I did, however, begin to develop a liking for Panama also. But, I have never been able to warm up to Talk to the Animals... :sad:

I am looking forward to this CD...
 
This is probably my favorite album. I love it. The top cut for me is "Flamingo". Herb's trumpet style that makes this song what it is. The icing on the cake is the superb backup by Julius on marimba, Nick Ceroli just the right knock where it needs to be plus the vocalists make the cut full. Second favorite is "The Work Song". Bob Edmondson's strong trombone and Nick Ceroli's driving beat make this song move. One of my favorite tunes to play on trumpet, for some reason, is "I Will Wait For You". It just has a special feel to it whether I'm playing on the horn or listening to it.

The entire album is great. I love the concert photo on the back shot in Allentown, Pa.

I've always wanted to know where the album cover shot was done. Was it on the A&M lot? Does anyone know, or even care?

Tom
 
I tend to agree that the Herb and the Brass' finest moments were around Whipped Cream and Going Places, but still the other albums bear witness of an artist that is growing and developing. He did not just try to copy the successes of the past but was evolving.

- greetings from the north-
Martin
 
Ed Bishop said:
Interesting album, but I think WHAT NOW MY LOVE was their last great effort; this is a notch below the lofty standards set by SOTB, WC, GP and WNML. Of course no one could sustain that quality level, and this is nevertheless a very strong entry. "The Work Song" is my choice for most memorable cut, but there are many other good ones.

:ed:
Ed, I respectfully disagree, I think "Beat of The Brass" and "Warm" and "Sounds Like" are a few examples of the TJB's best..
 
Harry said:
TonyCurrie said:
Anyone else notice crackling - suspiciously sounding like surface noise - on the right hand channel at the start of "For Carlos"? There's a bit of digital distortion, too, which leads me to wonder if the track was lifted from vinyl and noise reduced?

It occurs about 12 seconds into the track and has always been there. It's a bit more muffled on the Japanese release, but it's there. I suspect it's more of the flaws that exist in the master, like some of the other anomalies we've been noticing.

Harry

There's a temptation, when one hears any crackling sound on a tape, that it's a vinyl lift, but I've heard board noise(or whatever one wishes to call it) on master tapes going into the '70s(and in unlikely places, like the Moody Blues' SEVENTH SOJOURN). Always a little jolt when you pick that up, then you listen again and again to be sure. But doubtful this is a vinyl dub, just a flaw of the original recording.

:ed:
 
In working closely with all the reissues to create my own collection (discussed in another thread), I've come to realize that while producing SRO, more audio compression was used than on any previous album. When you look at the waveforms for Our Day Will Come, there's virtually no dynamic range to speak of.. Most of the following numbers on the album follow this same compression pattern, especially the great song Flamingo. Sounds like hard-core compressed ROCK FM radio.

I was looking for reasons why, because earlier albums would actually overdrive and zero out the VU on occasion, but still have decent dynamic range.

Maybe three-band audio compression was new back then, and was cool. I can't figure. I seem to remember Audimax or something similar.

Steve
 
I just hope the reissues are not overly "maximized" digitally...that has to be one of my biggest pet peeves about CD mastering. It was an ugly trend that started in the early 90s and has only gotten worse. Reissues like the TJB and other jazz and instrumental albums don't suffer as much, but rock and pop really get slammed sometimes. The old "volume wars" still live on.

As for compression on the original masters...was SRO still recorded at Gold Star Studios? There may be someone out there that remembers what equipment they would have had in the studio at that point.
 
Dave (Yes said:
The clinkity-clank of an anvil heard in "The Work Song" makes this my top-pick here...

You would later hear an "anvil" on Lani Hall's "Banquet" (a Joni Mitchell song) from her Hello, It's Me Album, which Herb plays... Hal Blaine also banged on an anvil with The 5th Dimension on their "Workin' On A Groovy Thing"...


Dave
 
Timeframe said:
In working closely with all the reissues to create my own collection (discussed in another thread), I've come to realize that while producing SRO, more audio compression was used than on any previous album. When you look at the waveforms for Our Day Will Come, there's virtually no dynamic range to speak of.. Most of the following numbers on the album follow this same compression pattern, especially the great song Flamingo. Sounds like hard-core compressed ROCK FM radio.

I was looking for reasons why, because earlier albums would actually overdrive and zero out the VU on occasion, but still have decent dynamic range.

Maybe three-band audio compression was new back then, and was cool. I can't figure. I seem to remember Audimax or something similar.

Steve

What exactly is audio compression?
What I do notice about this album is that both "Our Day Will Come" and "Flamingo" have less treble than the other tracks.:cool:
 
I Will Wait For You gives me the chills.

According to the forum poll, Flamingo, The Work Song,
Don't Go Breaking My Heart, Mexican Road Race and
Our Day Will Come would all be great on a “Tijuana Brass”
anthology. Though Mame would probably be included too.
Herb and the folks at Shout Factory should get our opinion
on a "essential" collection.
 
Has anybody noticed that this Shout Factory release
has a slight rushed feeling about it. It appears that
there's always a two second pause between songs.
Was the original S.R.O. album this way?

Even between tracks 6 and 7 (end of side one and
start of side two), it would have been nice to
have a little more time between them. Oh well.

Still, a great album to finally have on CD.
 
I want to thank Herb and everyone that helped with the reissues. There really is some genius in these arrangements on SRO ( and on the rest of the albums). I guess brass players like me are especially likely to enjoy this kind of music.

You just can't beat Wall Street Rag, The Work Song, For Carlos, Mexican Road Race, and Flamingo. The other songs are also outstanding.

Lately I have been having a blast playing my trumpet along with a few of the songs, but it takes me awhile to pick up the notes. It would be cool to have some sheet music that was written to match the key that is used on the albums.
 
happycamper said:
Lately I have been having a blast playing my trumpet along with a few of the songs, but it takes me awhile to pick up the notes. It would be cool to have some sheet music that was written to match the key that is used on the albums.

Song books existed for much of this music many, many years ago. However, these books have been out of print for many years and would probably only be found as a matter of luck somewhere like Ebay. They were published by Hansen Publishers and Key-Pops Publishers.

There were complete arrangements for Bb instruments and rhythm. They were intended for use by combo type groups who wanted to play the songs. I used to have them, but they have disappeared in the mist of time.

I played most of the songs for many years, and know most of the trumpet parts - lead and harmony - in the key of the records. A few of the songs were excluded from the books due to copyright restrictions, but I learned them by listening to the records.
 
ormandy said:
Has anybody noticed that this Shout Factory release
has a slight rushed feeling about it. It appears that
there's always a two second pause between songs.
Was the original S.R.O. album this way?

Even between tracks 6 and 7 (end of side one and
start of side two), it would have been nice to
have a little more time between them. Oh well.

Still, a great album to finally have on CD.

Ths industry standard is to have a two second gap between tracks on a CD. On vinyl it was 4 seconds, which is why CD reissues sound "rushed".
 
Ths industry standard is to have a two second gap between tracks on a CD. On vinyl it was 4 seconds, which is why CD reissues sound "rushed".

But only this remastered disc for some reason.
On the Beatles U.K. albums, it was 7 seconds between songs.
 
Hi,

The crackling on "For Carlos" on SRO is a board glitch. It has been on every version of this LP, Mono & Stereo through the years. The new CD is superb and sounds much improved over the LP versions. It is more solid on the bass and midrange. A question, is the Mono mix a fold down? It sounds less of a unique mix than the earlier LP's.
 
Welcome Kent. Good to see you over here. I recognize your name from the SH board.

I hope you enjoy our A&M (& other delights!) discussions.

Harry (aka HGN2001)
 
If the family chooses to watch another syndicated re run, I‘m out of there, and enjoying another TJB re-master. Fortunately, most of these albums clock in at 30 minutes or less, so I don’t really need to cut anything. Unless I get started too late. So, if there was one song I had to skip due to time restraints it would have to be, Mame. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood.

If you had to skip one, what would it be?
 
SRO. By popularity, if one considers Herb Alpert’s place among the top LP sellers of the ‘60s – I’m confident he’s easily in the top 5 – perhaps even the top 3…or higher yet!

Herb Alpert’s rise from a 3-LP recording artist of marginal popularity to unconditional superstardom was nearly overnight. Essentially unknown to even the casual record-buying public in 1965, within twelve months he and his group would be dominating the LP charts, instantly recognizable on coast-to-coast TV programs, and headlining concerts across the country and in Europe. The sudden rise to celebrity status is what accounts for the older LPs suddenly becoming hot commodities among the vastly growing legions of fans. Since, by all accounts, virtually all TjB fans were simultaneously introduced to all the LPs – as though they were released in one multi-LP set – it would be most difficult for the average fan to describe or even identify what the group actually “sounded like”. (Indeed, such a notion may have even contributed to a forthcoming LP title…)

By December 1966, as Mr. Alpert was fast becoming a phenomenon (i.e., a “personality”) his other responsibilities would only continued to accrue: He was a record label executive of an expeditiously growing company; he was a producer for most (if not all) other artists on his label; he continued to acquire, arrange, rehearse, and record an LP’s worth of new material every 6 months for the TjB; his road band was in the national spotlight and in constant demand for live appearances (he may have even managed the group); of course, he was a husband and father…; and, most importantly (as a trumpet player) he had to find time to practice SOLO one hour each day.

SRO was undoubtedly the most eagerly-awaited TjB LP of the group’s reign; and it was into this atmosphere that SRO was released…just in time to reap the Christmas sales. (Actually, Herb always reaped the Christmas sales when it truly counted. So savy! I mean being a record executive means – foremost –selling records, you know? Heck, he even dropped Chris Montez after 4 LPs…Good move there – although it was about 4 LPs too late. Still, I wonder what that fateful day was like when Chris got “the call”. I mean, was it just A...or was it M – or did they gang up on him? If so was it “A&M or “M&A” style…but I digress.)

Upon initial playing, SRO must have delivered to most people’s expectations. What Now My Love was the first honest TjB album, and, interestingly, it revealed a toned-down festive atmosphere relative to the prior two LPs. SRO sustained this trend to notable degree as Herb continued to invent increasingly intriguing and thought-provoking arrangements along side choice covers (following the !!Going Places!! model emphasizing recognizable tunes). And – best of all – the original material truly allowed the TjB to push the boundaries in a way not as obvious on WNML.

Actually, the only obvious compromise noticed relative to the previous issue was Herb’s trumpet playing. The shimmering metallic tone that carried GP, and was inconsistent on WNML, is nearly absent on SRO. Indeed, with SRO, it’s apparent Herb is going through a major technical change in playing style: His tone and articulation are noticeably different than on WNML.

Another notable difference from WNML is the absence of the “old-timey” instruments: accordions, banjos, harpsichords are all (essentially) absent, and the mandolin – arguably as representative of the TjB sound as the marimba – is heard only once. Arguably, SRO, in its own way, is not unlike a culmination of GP’s variety and WNML’s depth – albeit devoid of fundamental session musician contributions. Nevertheless, it’s obvious that with SRO Herb is quite comfortable with his new band and is definitely pushing them beyond any boundaries that may have been associated with WNML.

Yeah, aside from the crappy engineering quality of the first selection, it’s quite a good ride.

Our Day. A nice opener and pure Herb with all those nifty turnarounds, key changes and stylistic jumps that began to flower on GP. The first key change is sweet as Herb sails effortlessly up to high Bb…but the transition to Bob’s bone is what sends the chills. (The usual carrot-tease...just keep waiting for him to have his own song. Dadgumit!). Check out the rhythmic interplay between guitar and marimba/vibes -- what a groove.

Mexican Road. Since WCAOD, Herb has consistently programmed very strong songs into the 2nd position on side 1. Smart move, there. Note the looser yet tighter drumming of Nic compared to WNML. Nic really opens up on SRO. His percussive nuances make this a memorable performance.

I Will Wait. Note the stylistic changes in Herb’s playing – he’s transitioning away from longer legato fragments, and moving to shorter more percussively-marked fragments. Personally, I don’t like where the change is going, but will allow that it is very distinctive – and a very articulate and calculated move in the highly competitive 1960s pop world. Herb’s influence at the hands of Miles Davis is obvious as his harmon-muted solo says as much in its silence as it does in its notes. The tension-building section is a surprise.

[My LP lists the writers as Jobim -Mendonca-Gimbel; yet the CD lists the writers as Demy-Gimbel-Legrand. A major labelling mixup occurred. The former 3 writers wrote Mediation – the English-translated version of which contains the repeated line, “…I will wait for you meditating how sweet life will be…” Meditation was recorded by Claudine Longet on SP-4121 – perhaps that contributed to the mixup.]

Bean Bag. It’s great to hear how Herb continues to pay more attention to the lightweight stuff. In fact, this song is just too good to be considered a throwaway. The mid-song key change was just what the song needed – and precisely timed. (Are those pans mixed along side the marimba?). This one fully deserves to be driven around the block again – this time with a John-ala-mode ending (major 9th).

Wall Street. Bud Coleman’s contribution is a bit of a disappointment -- only because it’s not innovative like Tijuana Taxi or unique in arrangement like Freckles. Wall Street Rag is a song everyone’s heard before. Basically a string of clichés – saved by a spirited performance.

Work Song. I wonder if this hit resulted in Nat Adderley’s 2-LP deal. This song – as do all the covers that Herb recorded at the time – indicates just how immersed in music he was. He must’ve been acquainted with hundred of prospective songs…the only real problem must have been on settling on which one to fullly explore. More than any other SRO selection, this song is a sign post for the next LP: band plays with driving authority. Herb’s playing and 2-horn arrangement is quite expressive.

Mame. A weak opener for side 2. These sing-a-long thingies may be fine for TV shows, but they really shouldn’t be included on LPs. The voice chatter – “hey” in particular – sounds about as exuberant as waiting for my lava lamp to heat up. The group singing is weird – like no one can correctly pronounce the word, “the”? What's up with that?

Blue Sunday. The second in a 3-song installment of “blue”-titled songs, Blue Sunday sets a definitive boundary: from this point onward, the LP rides out on a most melancholy mood. The LP’s been a decent listen up to this point, but now it becomes something else altogether. Far and away the best thing Julius contributed to a TjB LP to date, from the avant-garde opening chord to the slow-motion ending, Blue Sunday truly defines the singular style of TjB arrangements: they just could not be imitated. The mid-song halt -- with the mandolin -- instantly transports the listener back to the more romanticaly warm WNML...but, alas, it's short lived! A+

Don’t Go. Nic’s unique drum pattern really moves this one. For a repetitive melody, this songs doesn’t get tiring – I suppose that’s the Bacharach magic. A spirited yet downhearted arrangement makes this a gem. From Bob’s lonely trombone to the key change riding out the ending, the entire performance is captivating. A+

For Carlos. Like Adios, Mi Corazon from South Of The Border, this is a song you play when you need to be alone... And like Adios, Mi Corazon, it may be the best damn thing the TjB ever recorded. Filled with key changes, time changes, unexpected shifts in dynamics, odd turnarounds...this arrangement is pop genius and must've been quite an interesting "recorded" performance. Thanks, Mr. Alpert. A+

Freight Train. A little reprieve from Carlos…still in a doleful manner though.

Flamingo. This is just cool – and needs to be played very, very loud. The "atomotonic" backing male voices are strange, yet very interesting -- and actually hook the song for me. A+


With now with three 5-Star LPs in a row the only question that could be asked was, how long can Mr. Alpert and company keep this up? Yet, before even considering an answer, perhaps it’s best to savor what is arguably the finest representative LP of the actual TjB. Yes, even with its misfires it IS one hell of an album!

-James
 
The distortion on this album is tape overmodulation distortion, when the bass signal is too strong on the tape and affects the rest of the sound. You hear it most on "Our Day" and "Mame", where it doesn't sound so bad on the other tracks.
 
The group singing is weird – like no one can correctly pronounce the word, “the”? What's up with that?
I always thought they were trying to "sound Mexican" on that line. But the Brass was almost completely done with Mexico by the time this album came out, so who knows?
 
Rudy, on Our Day Will Come the overall signal is very compressed -- like a 45 mix for AM radio. I always thought I just had a cruddy pressing (since I bought the LP used in '81) -- but the CD mirrors the LP sonics. The balance of the LP is not nearly as compressed sounding. Though on Flamingo Herb blows so loud in one section that he must have driven the limiter crazy!

Hey Mike...yeah you're right! It's just like Hello Dolly on SOTB. As for the Mexican thing. Hmmmm, from an SRO point of view, Cinco De Mayo may be the closest thing to musica mexicana they've thus far've done. There's much Latin-influenced stuff on WNML and SRO...but nothing that makes me think of Mexican musical elements...like the beautiful Adios, Mi Corazon which exhibits a strong Mexican feel. In addition, bright, shimmering vibrato is a hallmark of Mexican pop trumpet...and Herb seems to retreat from using vibrato on SRO (as opposed to WNML and GP).

Isn't his playing on For Carlos just beautiful? I just can't get over that arrangement and performance!

-James
 
"For Carlos" has never been a real favorite of mine. It's OK, but not A+ material for me. To me it sounds like a cousin of "Bud," from the NINTH album - but "Bud" is one of my all time favorites. (But Captain B. (I think) skips that one every time!)

"Freight Train Joe" sounds quite a bit like "Bo-Bo" from SOUNDS LIKE, but there again I like "Bo-Bo" a lot more.

"Flamingo" hasn't aged too well for me - I like it overall but I don't really like the dense sound of it as well as I used to.

My favorite tunes on this album are "Mexican Road Race" and "Don't Go Breaking My Heart." Of the slower tunes, "Blue Sunday" gets my fave nod. I guess the only song on here I really don't like is "I Will Wait For You."
 
Then you should just reverse the order... Bud is the cousin of For Carlos, and Bo-Bo is the cousin of Freight Train Joe.

In high school I recall from an article on music written in 1967 that Herb said For Carlos was written for the passing of a bullfighter. Bud, too, was (posthumously) dedicated to the passing of Bud Coleman. Since it's co-credited to Bud, I'm guessing it was a song he was working on at the time of his passing. Freight Train Joe is really odd because it's supposed to be a fun song (there's even kids chatter mixed in), but Herb's playing is very lackluster and haunting...he actually sounds like a lonely train whistle. I really like Bo-Bo as well. Like Panama from BOTB, Bo-Bo has a feel I wish the group would've subsequently more fully explored.

I tend to like the slower, more doleful songs -- probably because the happy ones are so full of carefree fun that when Herb takes a ballad, the listener genuinely feels it. Also, I've heard the Chicago-Benge horn is very much open to stylistic expression. I have an early '70s LA Benge -- a descendant of his model -- and it is the most expressive trumpet I've ever held. As a trumpet player, when Herb play songs like For Carlos and Cantina Blue, he can really get to me.

-James
 
I became fond of "For Carlos" years ago. Naturally, when the album first appeared, I tended to skip over it as one of those slow songs. I too wanted the bright, happy stuff that IMHO best exemplified the TjB.

But it was too much later - still in the late '60s as I sup my albums, that "For Carlos" began to haunt me. To this day, I still make it a must-hear whenever SRO comes out.

I still like "Flamingo" as one of the four killer end-of-side tracks that reside on both SRO and its blue-covered cousin, SOUNDS LIKE; "The Work Song", ""Wade In The Water", and "Casino Royale" rounding out the other three.

Harry
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom