The official WHAT NOW MY LOVE comments thread and poll

What is your favorite track?

  • What Now My Love

    Votes: 14 23.3%
  • Freckles

    Votes: 5 8.3%
  • Memories Of Madrid

    Votes: 12 20.0%
  • It Was A Very Good Year

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • So What's New?

    Votes: 5 8.3%
  • Plucky

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Magic Trumpet

    Votes: 4 6.7%
  • Cantina Blue

    Votes: 6 10.0%
  • Brasilia

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • If I Were A Rich Man

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Five Minutes More

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • The Shadow Of Your Smile

    Votes: 6 10.0%

  • Total voters
    60
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During the breaks of the song "Cantina Blue" when I bought the reissued CD, the guitar sounds a little lower than higher :confused: when I listen to the headphones on the original A&M tan album. Matt Clark Sanford, MI
 
I have a bit more appreciation for this album than I used to...I finally realized that this was the first TJB album that was more "focused" than the earlier ones, and that threw me when I first heard it, many years ago. The other albums really did feature a lot of different styles of music, didn't they? This album is really the first of several that begin to define a signature style...SRO really expounds upon it, and by HERB ALPERT'S NINTH it becomes pretty well developed. So, in a way, this album is more like THE LONELY BULL than not...it's the first album that the TJB ensemble as we know them was involved from start to finish. The arrangements are much more mature and "lush[for lack of a better word...]" than in previous efforts. I think that this album is the one that Herb is really beginning to find his voice on...the first jazz influences are heard on this album, and John Pisano really comes into his own as a songwriter here, as well...joining the ranks of Julius Wechter and Ervan Coleman as a vital element to the TJB sound.

This album was aimed at a slightly more mature audience than previous albums, IMO...and it doesn't "grab" me the was !!GOING PLACES!! did, in fact, there's a much more introspective, sort of a "rainy day" feeling to this album than the upbeat former album...but it plays very well...it 's almost as if GP was a Cinco de Mayo festival, and this one's the "after party"...

Odd, isn't it...that trombone riff at the beginning of BRASILIA really set the mood for the whole song...the version on this CD sounds a little flat without it...just 4 notes, but what a group of just 4 notes...the interlude in PLUCKY seems a bit distorted, too; but it really transforms the song. With 'phones on, the lower level of reverb in WHAT NOW MY LOVE isn't so objectionable...and it makes the 2nd trumpet parts stand out a little more than they do on the other version, at least to my ears...

All I ever had of this album was an old mono copy, so, I'm glad to have a CD of this one, too...thanks to Herb and Larry for this!



Dan
 
DAN BOLTON said:
All I ever had of this album was an old mono copy, so, I'm glad to have a CD of this one, too...thanks to Herb and Larry for this!

Dan, you bring home an interesting point. Some of us were lucky to pick up some of these '80s-issued CDs, and should consider ourselves fortunate to have done so. Others, like yourself, had to rely on older product like LPs and tapes to hear these old albums and you must be experiencing these old recordings in a new way.

Sometimes, we completist/obsessive-types complain about a dropout or a bit of distortion, but when one realizes that others have been living with worn-out old records for all these years, those little imperfections get put into perspective and mean a lot less.

It's great to have these TjB recordings out there and available for all who want them.

Harry
 
TO the topic at hand... I was never a BIG fan of the song "What Now My Love" though I really like this album. My fovorite cuts on it (in order of appearance) are:
Freckles
So What's New?
Plucky
Magic Trumpet (as a marimba guy I must say this one kicks ass on the xylophone part... Julius was the keyboard percussion master!)
Brasilia
Five Minutes More

While I rarely skip tracks the only ones on this that I am inclined to skip (but haven't yet as I eagerly listen to each track and nuance there-in) are "Shadow," "Year," and "Rich Man." Those tracks have never really done much for me...

Mr Bill
 
I, too, miss the trombone intro on Brasilia. I also noticed that, in the liner notes for this series generally, Herb has mentioned several of the other musicians by name, quite favorably, but has not mentioned Bob. Back in the 60s, seeing the TV appearances, Bob was the most attention-grabbing visually (after Herb, of course). He had a sort of comic persona. What an abundance of talented players!
 
Just picked up all 3 reissues yesterday & played them in the car; no complaints about sound quality.

Because the program lengths are short I think there'd be ample room for alternate versions of the songs. Another possibility would be to have the entire album in stereo followed by the mono version (like Beach Boys PET SOUNDS and Jefferson Airplane TAKES OFF).

I'm still looking for plastic sleeves to protect those cardboard covers.
JB
 
Harry said:
Sometimes, we completist/obsessive-types complain about a dropout or a bit of distortion, but when one realizes that others have been living with worn-out old records for all these years, those little imperfections get put into perspective and mean a lot less.

Plus, I think our listening habits have changed. The dropouts in "Monday, Monday" are a good example of that. We listen in the car more now than we ever used to: back in the days of these TJB albums, 8-track was a not-so-good newcomer to car audio playback; today many cars come with CD players in the dash, and sound way better than those old car audio systems. At home, too, we have a lot more playback options than the old consoles many of us played the original albums on. In those days, we probably would never have noticed the problems with the LPs, unless we were one of the few hobbyists to own the really good gear of its day (think McIntosh, Marantz, Dynaco, played back with a Garrard or Dual turntable with a Shure magnetic cartridge). IOW we're more able to hear the problems with the recordings today.
 
It's hardly the most famous pick from the litter, and to my best memory it never found a place among the various "Greatest Hits" compilations, but I've cast my vote for "Freckles." Alongside "Tijuana Taxi," I think it's Bud Coleman's best composition. And I think it's Herb's finest excursion into Dixieland stomp, which (as a genre) I love. I also like the fact that almost every instrument has a chance in this brief, bright song to stand up and make its statement: not just the trumpet, but the banjo (an inspired choice for rhythm), the 'bone, Julius's marimba, and those teriffic hi-hat breaks in the bridge. And the conclusion—slow New Orleans blues, with both Herb and Bob doubling themselves down dirty to the piano's bass pedal fermata—is just brillliant.

"Freckles" puts a smile on my face every time I hear it. On vinyl, I practically wore its grooves smooth.
 
WNML is my favorite TJB album. So I like all of the tunes on it with "It Was A Very Good Year" being my least favorite. I voted for "The Shadow Of Your Smile" as being my favorite. I tend to favor the short version of "Plucky" since it was the only version I had heard until I got a copy of the CD version about six years ago. I live on the west coast and I purchased my first copy of WNML in May of 1966 and it had the short version of "Plucky". I wore out that first copy and replaced it with a copy, which also had the short version, that I bought through the Columbia Record club in 1968. It still has a plastic inner sleeve instead of the paper one.
As for the sound of the remastered version, the high end does sound brighter and low end fuller. I also detect less tape hiss noise. I am very pleased that Herb is remastering and re-releasing these gems.

Larry B.
 
I note that the duration of "Plucky" on the reproduced back sleeve is 2:21, which does rather suggest that the short version was the "original", doesn't it?
 
Mr. Currie: I note that the duration of "Plucky" on the reproduced back sleeve is 2:21, which does rather suggest that the short version was the "original", doesn't it?

Brilliant deduction, Holmes. It may even be correct.

Listening to WNML in the car this week, I was struck by the irony that both versions of the album we know offer us both more and less of Bob Edmondson: The extended version of "Plucky," more; sans trombone on "Brasilia"'s intro. I definitely miss the latter; the former, I haven't made up my mind. Having grown up with one approach, then hearing another, my ear finds the new difficult to accept. I can well understand the response of someone, a year or so ago, on hearing the first CD issue of the album on his automobile's CD: When the bump-'n'-grind came in, he almost wrecked his car from surprise.

Have you noticed that the boneless version of "Brasilia" also lacks Herb's little doodling (an eighth-note triplet) on the fourth beat of the twelfth bar on the melody's first run-through? These doodles soon return, however.

Definitely different is the bass reproduction of the bridge in "Cantina Blue." The electric-guitar's dulcet, bass-string response to the mandolin is much less pronounced than on my vinyl version. Someone on this thread has already observed that the entire CD seems to have heightened treble.
 
Have you noticed that the boneless version of "Brasilia" also lacks Herb's little doodling (an eighth-note triplet) on the fourth beat of the twelfth bar on the melody's first run-through?

Actually I have noticed that since the first time I heard it, but didn't quite know how to put it into words. Thanks for esplaining it. I think that little "bit" really adds to the song too and I miss it when I listen to the boneless "Brasilia."
 
Favorite Tracks:
1. "What Now My Love"-classic TJB.
2. "If I Were A Rich Man"-I actually had a mental picture of Topol, who played Tevye, in my head! :laugh:
3. "Brasilia"-a fun song.
4. "So What's New"
5. "Memories Of Madrid"-conjures up images of old Spanish towns.
6. "Magic Trumpet"-I noticed that Alpert tried to keep this number as German-sounding as its original might be. (I use the word "might" because I've never heard Bert Kampfert's version).
8. "Cantina Blue"- imagines an actual Mexican cantilla, where some lonely soul is "crying in his cerveza", or perhaps, tequila.
 
Numero Cinco said:
Have you noticed that the boneless version of "Brasilia" also lacks Herb's little doodling (an eighth-note triplet) on the fourth beat of the twelfth bar on the melody's first run-through? These doodles soon return, however.

On the first verse, it almost sounds like a different take of the trumpet part was used...if you hear sound samples of both next to each other it is much easier to compare. Also, do this with the opening verse of "Plucky" and check out the marimba part--way different! (You hear two marimbas playing for the longer version, whereas the shorter one sounds "cleaner".)
 
Mike Blakesley said:
Actually I have noticed that since the first time I heard it, but didn't quite know how to put it into words. Thanks for esplaining it.

As I think more on it, I goobered up my own esplanation: At that tempo it would be a sixteenth-note triplet, not eighth-note. Those doodles are part of Herb's signature style, even in a ballad like "The Lonely Bull."

alpertfan said:
"Magic Trumpet"-I noticed that Alpert tried to keep this number as German-sounding as its original might be. (I use the word "might" because I've never heard Bert Kampfert's version).

When you do hear the Kaempfert version, you may be amazed how thoroughly Alpert recreated it. Bert, like Herb, had an unmistakable style: Hear it once and it's forever recognizable. The composer's own "Magic Trumper" is a certain kind of early '60s, instrumental cool: running eighth-note figures on mellow trumpet and trombone, entwined and answering each other. Herb rethought the melody as a march: syncopated dotted-eights and sixteenths, supported by drum paradiddles. As his own comments in the new liner notes make clear, Herb tried in his songs to conjure strong images as a substiute for lyrics. On WNML, "Magic Trumpet" is a tone poem that suggests "Let's throw a parade while the kids run down the street" (the latter, Julius's xylophone). The vocal commands and drum-major's whistle in the intro organize and start the show.
 
Well, that super-early B&W group shot under the clear plastic CD well is precious and rare.

Looks like its from the session that produced the group photo on the back of the original "Going Places" LP.

I mean, Nick without the 'stache! :)

This one has to vintage circa late '65?

Too bad it's inaccessible ..that would make a cool poster-size shot! :oneeye:
 
A great album. I've always had the mono version,
so it was great to hear it in stereo for the first time.

It would be nice to have a 1962/1968 mono TJB box set someday.
 
Whoever mastered this disc (or any of them) did a great job.
I love that the bass and kick drum are more present now.

According to the forum poll, What Now My Love, Freckles,
Memories Of Madrid, So What's New?, Cantina Blue and
The Shadow Of Your Smile, would all be great on a
“Tijuana Brass” anthology. Though, Brasilia would
probably make it as well. Because, as we all know,
the "hit" songs aren't always the one's people vote for
as their favorite. Herb and the folks at Shout Factory
should get our opinion on a essential collection. :)
 
If the family chooses to watch another syndicated re run, I‘m out of there, and enjoying another TJB re-master. Fortunately, most of these albums clock in at 30 minutes or less, so I don’t really need to cut anything. Unless I get started too late. So, if there was one song I had to skip due to time restraints it would be, It Was A Very Good Year. I like it, but the other night I knew I had to drop one if I was going to catch a concert broadcast from the start.

If you had to skip one, what would it be?
 
This is a terrific TJB album,but after WHIPPED CREAM and GOING PLACES one can see the start of predictability with each TJB album.Herb's playing became more cutesy and didn't have the punch of the early albums.Plus a lot of the "originals"started to sound the same.However-there are still some fine cuts here,including SO WHAT'S NEW?,BRASILIA,VERY GOOD YEAR and the title tune-A Grammy winner.
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but on the T-Bone endowed version of "Brasilia", Nick Ceroli's drumbeat is more up front than the Bone-less version after the second bridge of the song.

David,
still unsure why they didn't use the Boney version on this CD........
 
This album seems to be a favorite among the crowd here. I think the TJB sound was starting to come together in this album. Because I think of Going Places like a transitional record, (the bridge from "fake" Tijuana Brass to "real" Tijuana Brass) What Now My Love would be the first album where the Brass found their distinctive sound. I think they were about 85% the way there. This album really has a Mexican sound to it, mostly due to the mandolins. I chose So What's New as the best track. Herb does a beautiful arrangement of Shadow Of Your Smile, and Five Minutes More is killer. I wouldn't call this record my favorite by any means, but it's fun to divert back to after I haven't played it in a long time.
 
With !!Going Places!! Mr. Alpert undoubtedly "arrived" with his unique musical insight boldly in tow. And from that point onward, subsequent LPs would be set against this new premium level of artistic merit. What Now My Love is the first LP the fully reveals the breath and scope of his new ensemble. Indeed, when looking to bestow that all-elusive (and downright silly) title of "best" TjB LP -- given the choice candidates from !!Going Places!! though to, arguably, Sounds Like -- it's a genuine tossup. Each of the four affected LPs have their hair-splitting differences that can make each a suitable nominee. That each successive offering is not derivative of its predecessor indicates artistic growth as Mr. Alpert continues to his musical expedition to.........whatever it is that he is going....... (You'll have to ask him...and I bet he wouldn't have an answer!!)

Two releases earlier (Whipped Cream & Other Delights) Mr. Alpert promoted the idea of having an LP exhibit a myriad of styles; and GP improved the approach most notably with more attention to arrangement detail, and emphases on incorporating more standards or recognizable contemporary songs. With WNML, Herb pulls in the reigns a bit regarding the cursory dynamics evident on GP, yet continues to emphasize cover versions of well-known songs.

While it's fruitless to nominate WNML as "better" that its predecessor one can affirm that WNML continues to reveal a maturing of inventive arrangements: with a core group, the additional instrumentation is now a more obvious and understood augmentation. The original contributions continue to mature as well -- particularly, the lightweight material.

Lastly, while GP and WCAOD were, stylistically extremely varied, WNML exhibits greater artistic cohesion -- no doubt an obvious attribute of having a solid group at hand (particularly if they were paid on commission!). Furthermore (and this may be me just romanticizing) the arrangements and instrumentation push the record into an old-west realm: The most mandolin-heavy of TjB releases, WNML incorporates the old-timey sounds of banjo, accordion, and harpsichord (or tack piano); indeed, the mandolin, itself, for the first time is scored as a lead voice.

...As wonderful as GP is (its spirit and exuberance is unmatched by any TjB LP), WNML contains special cohesive characteristics that reveal a different type of excitement: the excitement of an arranger leading a real band, and -- for the first time -- actually arranging song-after-song for specific players.

If there is a criticism it's only that the sparkle in Mr. Alpert's trumpet is not quite at the platinum luster of GP...nevertheless, the arrangements and overall performance outweigh what's probably an unimportant detail to most listeners.

WNML is another 5-star LP...yet, unlike, GP, this one answers the question, What did the "real" TjB actually sound like?

What Now. George Martin, the Beatles producer, once said that the LP's first and last songs need to be kickers: The first keeps you from immediately turning off the record and the last one makes you flip the LP over. Herb's unique arrangement of the then-contemporary hit song is a winner from the opening cymbal crash. It's nice hearing the beautiful tone of the mandolin, and the trumpet call-and-response -- off-set against lagato trombone. The break and key change set the stage for the song's climax: a new melody written just for Bud's mandolin rhythmically supported by that most abused of '60s-era pop instruments -- the tambourine (dang, it's cool to hear someone actually play one with some competence!). Hearing the unison-tracked trumpets enter and gradually increase in volume against the dancing mandolin and smooth trombone is a guaranteed recipe for spine shivers. I only wish Herb hadn't undersold the song with that nonsensical fade-ending.

Freckles. Ah! Bud Coleman re-tools many of the musical elements he used in Tijuana Taxi and dishes out easily his finest contribution to date. More call-and-response (even with the drums!) and fun vocal "chatter" add to the excitement. The climaxes being those two turnarounds where Herb's trumpets do a free fall out of the sky! The prominent banjo and "stripper" ending, to me, add a western element. That final piano note was the perfect trite touch. Herb finally nails a "party" song that works on all levels. Frescas all around! A+

Madrid. Sol Lake delivers another gem. As with More And More Amore (GP), Sol affirms that he is indeed the master of tension and release. Bob's bone supports with smooth whole-tone colouring while the acoustic guitar, sustained light strings, and drumming pattern give this a wind-swept feel. And of course the minor-key ending is a sign post for the next number. A+

Good Year. Perhaps more than another other song on the LP, this one captures a feeling of the "ol' west". The song only has one section -- it's an "A" repeated three times -- and it nearly comes off like a musical mantra of sorts. I had known of this arrangement for many years when I heard underscore by Ennio Morricone to two '60s westerns [The Good, The Bad, The Ugly; A Fist Full Of Dollars]...and my teeth nearly fell out!! Herb masterfully expands time with this dirge-like performance which incorporates commanding trombone, mandolin and bongos...and a unique climax section using ear-ringing string voicings and a cymbal-crash back beat. The ending -- with its "last-gasp breath" serge ends one hell of a romantic musical trek. A+

So What's New. There's probably no musical recovery for what just happened...so a change of pace is in order. Once again Herb teases with his voice -- doubling the trumpet line in a few of the A section passes. The use of accordion nicely rounds out the ensemble.

Plucky. Sound like he's imitating a rooster with his horn. I suspect this was largely included so that Herb could start to get some songwriting royalties. (Given the group had reached a point that all you had to do was get something on one of their LPs and you'd be set for life, I'm confident by this time the unsolicited demos were flying into A&M at a rate consistent with current home foreclosures in the San Francisco bay area.) More banjo is apparent and the "stripper" section, that is a favourite topic in the Corner, comes our of left field -- enough to make one pull over an automobile and scrutinize the detail, I hear... In any event more stripper music takes it back to yesteryear -- back to the '60s...the 1860s.

Magic Trumpet. Another shot from yesteryear courtesy of the march-with-trombone-bass feel. Again the mandolin gets a solo spot with accordion backing (dig that xylophone!) as the TjB keeps the western elements close at hand -- this time with a most-countrified ending! Gotta love that Yeee-Hawwww at the key change! Cool arrangement -- again, like Freckles, one that works at many different musical levels.

Cantina Blue. There is no doubt that Sol was on a winner's streak...why more artists didn't routinely feature his songs is lost on me. The mandolin-electric guitar trade-offs make this one memorable; and the retard ending unexpectedly drops this one out. Just cannot second-guess Sol's highly original work. (Again, and don't know why, it just makes me think of the old west. Silly, huh?)

Brasilia. This sound like Spanish Flea + Cinco De Mayo. And since 1+1=1, it's actually a good thing: only one song to avoid when programming the CD.

Rich Man. Good job on this -- the perfect answer to Zorba The Greek: toned-down and largely acoustic replete with the similar accelerando section. In many ways song representatively exhibits the differences between GP and WNML.

Five Minutes More. Never could really figure this one out. The energy and feel is rock and roll -- heck, John's even on his electric 12-string; however, Pat's bass is unaffected. I mean, there's no life in the part...Apparently, this is what Herb wanted, but I'm having trouble understanding what's going on. I mean...there are limitless rhythmic nuances that could have been added to make the "solo" more exciting... Yet, it's just the same thing over and over.

Shadow. The consummate ending to this most rewarding LP. Like with It Was A Very Good Year, this song is basically an A section...well, technically, it's an A A', I guess -- repeated here twice: Herb takes 1A-A'; Bob takes 2A; the harpsichord and Herb split 2A' -- and Bob takes out to fade what would be 3A. And here is one of those rare occurrences were a fade makes musical sense. This is a stellar arrangement and performance. One of the all-time finest TjB recordings and the best all-around performance on this LP. A+

What Now My Love, the album, showcased the actual TjB and to the delight of fan and supportive music critic alike the LP only added fuel to the TjB fever of the day. At this point, following two very strong LPs, one could only wonder and eagerly await what the next 6-month offering would bring.

-James
 
Nice review. But don't expect your short shrift of "Brasilia" to go unpunished around these parts where it's a fan favorite!

Harry
 
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