The Official WHIPPED CREAM Review Thread
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I got my copy at 9:00AM at the opening of the local Borders. Naturally it wasn't in the racks yet (they had the other three Shout! titles though), but I asked a clerk who retrieved it from the back. She said they only had just one, and I got it!
I've only had a chance to give it a quick listen in the car, and I hear both improved highs and lows, bringing out details I'd not noticed before.
I think I hear some dropout distortion too, particularly on "A Taste Of Honey". I'll have to check more carefully when I get home.
And I've only glanced at the liner notes, so I need to peruse those more thoroughly.
Harry
I've only had a chance to give it a quick listen in the car, and I hear both improved highs and lows, bringing out details I'd not noticed before.
I think I hear some dropout distortion too, particularly on "A Taste Of Honey". I'll have to check more carefully when I get home.
And I've only glanced at the liner notes, so I need to peruse those more thoroughly.
Harry
Timeframe
New Member
The sound is as I would expect. All the hits are there, my favs and all.
The mastering technique has changed significantly from the first 2 re-issues.
There's almost no lead time at all to the tracks, and the ends are almost cut off before the decay is done, but then they add an additional 1 or 2 seconds of silence.
The 2 "extra tracks" are OK, but it's interesting to note that the individual instrument tracks on these two have not been mixed HARD-left or HARD-right. They're more panned towards the center. Quite a difference, and it also shows quite a change in philosophies from back then too.
Stevemitchell
The mastering technique has changed significantly from the first 2 re-issues.
There's almost no lead time at all to the tracks, and the ends are almost cut off before the decay is done, but then they add an additional 1 or 2 seconds of silence.
The 2 "extra tracks" are OK, but it's interesting to note that the individual instrument tracks on these two have not been mixed HARD-left or HARD-right. They're more panned towards the center. Quite a difference, and it also shows quite a change in philosophies from back then too.
Stevemitchell
Timeframe said:
Steve, I hate to differ with you but I have a different take on the stereo arrangement. Just like the prior two albums, the stereo stage is EXACTLY as presented originally on the LP - and that includes stuff on the hard right and stuff on the hard left.
The difference here is that everything is well balanced - nothing is left floundering around all by itself in one channel or the other, which is what happened mainly on a few tracks on LONELY BULL. If you compare the disc with the older A&M counterpart, you'll hear that that older one had a slight lessening of the stereo effect, again, just like on the other albums.
I'm happy that Herb and Bernie have left these tracks historically as they were originally presented, with only a modernization of the equilizing for the CD medium, and bringing the overall sound up to date.
My worst fears however come to fruition when I listen to this version and can hear the distortion present in what must be the master tapes, particularly noticeable on "A Taste Of Honey" at around the 30 to 60 second mark into the track. I hear a rumbling, rustling, fluttering (How shall I describe it?) in the backing track, yet Herb's centered trumpet part sounds unaffected.
Yet on the same cut, where there used to be noticeable hum and hiss just before Hal Blaine's kick drum hits, it sounds like the hiss has been reduced, while the hum is there in diminished form. All in all, a great mastering job by Bernie Grundman, working with what is probably the best source material. Unfortunately, either the ravages of time are showing on these, or they were that way from the get-go, and only now is it clear just what was on those tapes.
Don't mistake my notes here for dissatisfaction in any way. Though I wish these recordings were perfect, I realize that they are what they are - and I think this iteration of WHIPPED CREAM AND OTHER DELIGHTS is a great addition to my collectiom, and one I'm going to delight in listening to for awhile.
Harry
...with a few honest observations - more to come, I'm sure, online...
Ah, OK. True. I noticed that on LOST TREASURES as well that the stereo soundstage was 'modernized' for lack of a better word, where most of the recorded stuff is pretty well centered with occasional sounds emanating from left or right of center - typical of the way most recordings are presented in 'stereo' these days.
Since they're essentially never-before-heard recordings, there's no historical reason to mix them the way the others were mixed in the sixties.
Harry
Since they're essentially never-before-heard recordings, there's no historical reason to mix them the way the others were mixed in the sixties.
Harry
From what I remember, "Whipped Cream" was one of many TJB albums recorded at Gold Star Studios on a 3-track. So when they had to overdub, they would have to "bounce" the original three tracks down to two tracks on another deck. IIRC, they had to do some overdubs for at least "Taste of Honey", if not more of the tracks on the album. So when I do get to hear this one, I'm expecting the sound to be a little duller and noise a little higher due to the extra generation of tape due to the bounce.
As for the reduction in hiss, I'm hoping it wasn't no-noised.
But if they had better masters to work from, that would also account for it. There's no telling what tapes were used to make the CDs or even the original LPs.
As for the reduction in hiss, I'm hoping it wasn't no-noised.
But if they had better masters to work from, that would also account for it. There's no telling what tapes were used to make the CDs or even the original LPs.
Doug Castleman
Well-Known Member
I just bought a copy at the local Tower Records, where they had a whole bunch right inside the door, facing everybody who walks in. I have only heard the two bonus tracks so far, which are written by Herb Alpert, and I really like them already. Hearing his horn on songs that I've never heard before is a real pleasure for me. Tomorrow I'll have time to give it a real listen.
thetijuanataxi
Well-Known Member
Ok, now I've given the album a more critcal listen, especially after Harry's post. My goodness, what the @#%* happened to "A Taste Of Honey"? From about :30 to about 1:00 the right channel sounds like a distorted alarm clock speaker. One of the trombone blats is all broken up and the sound is all fuzzy. I don't understand this. The same track, supposedly from the original master was fine on "Definitive Hits". Why is there so much distortion here? Herb and some of the best engineers in the business are doing these reissues. So why has every album had droupouts on it.
TLB) on NEVER ON SUNDAY
SOTB) on ALL MY LOVING and now A TASTE OF HONEY. With all of the albums this song appeareed on, couldn't they have found a version of it that was in better shape? Otherwise, the album sounds great. All of the songs sound more detailed and 3 dimensional and I love the 2 bonus tracks. I've been humming them all night. However, and I may be imagining this, but WHIPPED CREAM and LOVE POTION #9 sound a little bit louder than the rest of the tracks to me. The liner notes are nice though they don't give any info about the bonus tracks. I wonder if Shout Factory or Herb are aware of the right channel distortions in ATOH.
David,
happy overall, but wishing there weren't any noticable flaws on WCAOD......
TLB) on NEVER ON SUNDAY
SOTB) on ALL MY LOVING and now A TASTE OF HONEY. With all of the albums this song appeareed on, couldn't they have found a version of it that was in better shape? Otherwise, the album sounds great. All of the songs sound more detailed and 3 dimensional and I love the 2 bonus tracks. I've been humming them all night. However, and I may be imagining this, but WHIPPED CREAM and LOVE POTION #9 sound a little bit louder than the rest of the tracks to me. The liner notes are nice though they don't give any info about the bonus tracks. I wonder if Shout Factory or Herb are aware of the right channel distortions in ATOH.
David,
happy overall, but wishing there weren't any noticable flaws on WCAOD......
Vinylalbumcovers
Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
I just got my copy too. I expected noise and I got it. However, the mastering's pretty darn good for tape that old. I also absolutely roared when I opened up the CD and spilling out was the poster-sized version of the famous cover. The only way it could have been funner is if, at the bottom, Herb would have written the words, "You're welcome, Herb". Then it would have been perfect...
Ed
Ed
thetijuanataxi said:
Actually, give another listen to the DEFINITIVE HITS release of "A Taste Of Honey". The distortion is there as well, in the same places. I just think it's this overall crystal clear mastering allowing us to hear the deficiencies in the master tape more clearly than ever before.
Listening to the track on an old release like GREATEST HITS or the old WHIPPED CREAM, I can hear hints of the distortion, but it's not nearly as pronounced as on the new disc.
Harry
...enjoying "Blueberry Park" at the moment, online...
Some notes about the packaging...
The booklet is a 20-pager, featuring some photos of what looks like a release party for the album. In these pictures we can see Herb and some other men standing around while the real Dolores Erickson is sitting in front of a giant album cover (minus her, of course, since she's there in the flesh!). In the booklet's cover shot it looks like Herb is giving Dolores a sip of wine or brandy.
The liner notes feature two pages from Herb himself, then the next two pages are reprints of the original liner notes from the back of the LP. The next 11 pages are this disc's liner notes, again from Josh Kun. Basically it's a retelling of the Herb Alpert story with the focus on the WHIPPED CREAM album.
Following another full-page picture from that release party, is the two page track listing and CD credits. The back of the booklet is an exact reprint of the LP's rear cover - this time including everything from the A&M logos down to the six small pictures of "other A&M records you will enjoy", showing the prior three TjB release, two BMBs and the Lucille Starr title.
The digipak that the disc is housed in is a little different from the prior releases. Instead of a slash-pocket design to house the liner notes, this booklet slides into the housing in the same manner that an LP slides into its jacket. Underneath the glued-on CD tray is a photo of Herb and the boys riding around a bullring in the "Tijuana Taxi".
The color scheme of the release is not the green that you'd think of, but rather a muted purple color, found on the back cover, the disc itself, and the background of the "Herb Alpert Signature Series" swath on the front cover.
Again, included with the booklet is a small insert promoting the rest of the Herb Alpert Signature series.
And of course, the bonus extra is a mini-poster of the album's cover art, featuring the now-famous picture of Dolores Erickson covered in all that foam.
Harry
The booklet is a 20-pager, featuring some photos of what looks like a release party for the album. In these pictures we can see Herb and some other men standing around while the real Dolores Erickson is sitting in front of a giant album cover (minus her, of course, since she's there in the flesh!). In the booklet's cover shot it looks like Herb is giving Dolores a sip of wine or brandy.
The liner notes feature two pages from Herb himself, then the next two pages are reprints of the original liner notes from the back of the LP. The next 11 pages are this disc's liner notes, again from Josh Kun. Basically it's a retelling of the Herb Alpert story with the focus on the WHIPPED CREAM album.
Following another full-page picture from that release party, is the two page track listing and CD credits. The back of the booklet is an exact reprint of the LP's rear cover - this time including everything from the A&M logos down to the six small pictures of "other A&M records you will enjoy", showing the prior three TjB release, two BMBs and the Lucille Starr title.
The digipak that the disc is housed in is a little different from the prior releases. Instead of a slash-pocket design to house the liner notes, this booklet slides into the housing in the same manner that an LP slides into its jacket. Underneath the glued-on CD tray is a photo of Herb and the boys riding around a bullring in the "Tijuana Taxi".
The color scheme of the release is not the green that you'd think of, but rather a muted purple color, found on the back cover, the disc itself, and the background of the "Herb Alpert Signature Series" swath on the front cover.
Again, included with the booklet is a small insert promoting the rest of the Herb Alpert Signature series.
And of course, the bonus extra is a mini-poster of the album's cover art, featuring the now-famous picture of Dolores Erickson covered in all that foam.
Harry
lonely bull
Active Member
Thanks Harry - that's a brilliant description of the Digipak - makes me feel even more impatient - hoping that mine will arrive any day now - just hope I don't get charged customs duty - had to pay £10 in charges for the first 3 Digis!
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
One note on the track "Blueberry Park" - does anyone else recognize a bit of another Alpert tune? There's a couple of spots that has the same trumpet lines as "I Can't Stop Thinking About You" (of North On South Street and Second Wind fame). It doesn't quite resolve the same way as "Can't Stop", but it gets pretty close.
Capt. Bacardi
Capt. Bacardi
martin
Well-Known Member
Whipped Cream & Other Delights arrived this morning with UPS. I got so tired of waiting for the slow mail service last time, that I spent the extra money to get it here as quickly as possible.
As said here earlier, the mastering is very well done. The only way to improve on the sound would have been to go back to the multitrack tapes, and remix them, which on a 40 year old recording is virtually impossible. In Herb's liner notes he thanks Bernie Grundman for remastering from the "original flat master tape". Of course, it could be discussed if an even better result could have come with e.g. cleaning up a good vinyl pressing or using or a CD from an earlier mastering. Still, using the original two track master is getting as close to the original as possible, and the result is quite satisfactory. As mentioned by others here, the distortion is easier to notice, because the overall sound is so improved.
"Rosemary" and "Blueberry Park" sound surprisingly much newer. These must be new mixes and I would guess new trumpets from Herb. The tracks themselves sound as recorded on more modern multitrack equipment, and I would believe they could not have been recorded earlier than around 1970. Anyway, they sound great, and very much "Tijuana Brass", though I can understand if they were not considered strong enough songs at the time.
- greetings from the north -
Martin
As said here earlier, the mastering is very well done. The only way to improve on the sound would have been to go back to the multitrack tapes, and remix them, which on a 40 year old recording is virtually impossible. In Herb's liner notes he thanks Bernie Grundman for remastering from the "original flat master tape". Of course, it could be discussed if an even better result could have come with e.g. cleaning up a good vinyl pressing or using or a CD from an earlier mastering. Still, using the original two track master is getting as close to the original as possible, and the result is quite satisfactory. As mentioned by others here, the distortion is easier to notice, because the overall sound is so improved.
"Rosemary" and "Blueberry Park" sound surprisingly much newer. These must be new mixes and I would guess new trumpets from Herb. The tracks themselves sound as recorded on more modern multitrack equipment, and I would believe they could not have been recorded earlier than around 1970. Anyway, they sound great, and very much "Tijuana Brass", though I can understand if they were not considered strong enough songs at the time.
- greetings from the north -
Martin
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
Mr Bill said:
It is the same song, but on the BMB album the writing is credited to Julius Wechter, not Herb Alpert.
Capt. Bacardi
I've played through the album a couple of times in the studio and cranked the monitors up a bit to be hyper critical. But before we put the CD into the machine, a word about the sleeve.
One of the selling points of the original album was of course Dolores and the shaving foam. But her appeal was considerably enhanced by the sexy shade of green that surrounded her; something the guys at Petr Whorf Graphics clearly knew because they used the same sexy green for the first Sergio Mendes album.
So I'm hit between the eyes by the amount of brown that's crept into the image. My LP sleeve is much greener (and that's despite the absence of the A&M logo since my original was a Pye International pressing). But worse is the prominence of purple. I have nothing against purple (honest, Prince!) and I know it "goes" with green - but for my personal taste there's not enough green in the packaging.
Anyway, the booklet is nice, the "Taste of Honey" is in the original green font rather tha the later yellow (which I approve of), the poster is tiny, but it's what's on the disc that matters the most.
And within thirty seconds I can hear the distortion that thetijuanataxi complains of. I don't know what it is, and haven't yet played it in comparison with the first version of the CD which I also have. But it sounds a bit rough.
I like the brightness of the percussion, and most of the album sounds oretty good for a recording from that period. There's dropout on the drum intro to "Love Potion no.9" that I reckon could have been compensated for, but the worst is the print-through on Ladyfingers when a ghost of the trumpet can be heard on the intro.
Print-through (for the non-technical) is caused by poor storage of the tape. What happens is the magnetic print in time bleeds through to the layer of tape touching it, and caused faint echoes to "print" to the tape. This is avoided by always storing a master tape wound so that the end of the tape is at the outer edge - so that print-through goes forward rather than backwards and is much less noticable. I learnt to do that with master tapes in my late teens, so I'm baffled that the experts in California didn't store the tapes that way. Unless, of course, this was mastered from a sub-master (perhaps one which was originally sent to Australia or Germany?) that wasn't properly rewound once it had been used?
I really like the bonus tracks. The first sounds as if it should belong on "WNML" but both have a very pleasing sound - I suspect the trumpet parts may be recent but that makes no difference at all to the quality of the music.
I'm happy to have the CD. I'm delighted that another generation can go out and buy this great music. And I wait impatiently for the release of GOING PLACES.
One of the selling points of the original album was of course Dolores and the shaving foam. But her appeal was considerably enhanced by the sexy shade of green that surrounded her; something the guys at Petr Whorf Graphics clearly knew because they used the same sexy green for the first Sergio Mendes album.
So I'm hit between the eyes by the amount of brown that's crept into the image. My LP sleeve is much greener (and that's despite the absence of the A&M logo since my original was a Pye International pressing). But worse is the prominence of purple. I have nothing against purple (honest, Prince!) and I know it "goes" with green - but for my personal taste there's not enough green in the packaging.
Anyway, the booklet is nice, the "Taste of Honey" is in the original green font rather tha the later yellow (which I approve of), the poster is tiny, but it's what's on the disc that matters the most.
And within thirty seconds I can hear the distortion that thetijuanataxi complains of. I don't know what it is, and haven't yet played it in comparison with the first version of the CD which I also have. But it sounds a bit rough.
I like the brightness of the percussion, and most of the album sounds oretty good for a recording from that period. There's dropout on the drum intro to "Love Potion no.9" that I reckon could have been compensated for, but the worst is the print-through on Ladyfingers when a ghost of the trumpet can be heard on the intro.
Print-through (for the non-technical) is caused by poor storage of the tape. What happens is the magnetic print in time bleeds through to the layer of tape touching it, and caused faint echoes to "print" to the tape. This is avoided by always storing a master tape wound so that the end of the tape is at the outer edge - so that print-through goes forward rather than backwards and is much less noticable. I learnt to do that with master tapes in my late teens, so I'm baffled that the experts in California didn't store the tapes that way. Unless, of course, this was mastered from a sub-master (perhaps one which was originally sent to Australia or Germany?) that wasn't properly rewound once it had been used?
I really like the bonus tracks. The first sounds as if it should belong on "WNML" but both have a very pleasing sound - I suspect the trumpet parts may be recent but that makes no difference at all to the quality of the music.
I'm happy to have the CD. I'm delighted that another generation can go out and buy this great music. And I wait impatiently for the release of GOING PLACES.
I finally got around to picking up my copy yesterday and immediately listened to it on the car stereo (which, sadly, is the best system I have access to at the moment) and did not hear the dropouts all have been mentioning. Of course, I am certain I will once I listen with Headphones. For me the two new tracks are a great addition, but (if they were from the same sessions I can see why they "didn't make the cut." They just seem to lack the peppy fun of other TJB tunes, much like Alpert's post-Fandango solo stuff, though not as dull and emotionless. Just my opinion.
But the best thing about this reissue is I caught my kids (13 and 7) tapping their toes and bobbing their heads to the beat as they complained about having to listen to "dad's sucky music." Oh yeah -- I think I have a couple new brass fans in my house!
--Mr Bill
But the best thing about this reissue is I caught my kids (13 and 7) tapping their toes and bobbing their heads to the beat as they complained about having to listen to "dad's sucky music." Oh yeah -- I think I have a couple new brass fans in my house!
--Mr Bill
Having now had the opportunity to check the new CD against the first CD issue, the distortion on A Taste of Honey is exactly the same, and so is the print-through on Ladyfingers. But the dropout on Love Potion No.9 doesn't appear on the original CD!
I reckon the strings at the end of "Rosemary" are synths (which is a pity because the rest of the track is excellent).
And I'm baffled by the fast fadeout on "Blueberry Park". Was the tape damaged, perhaps?
I reckon the strings at the end of "Rosemary" are synths (which is a pity because the rest of the track is excellent).
And I'm baffled by the fast fadeout on "Blueberry Park". Was the tape damaged, perhaps?
Mr. Bill - be sure to crank up "Walk Don't Run" for the kidds when it comes out. I 'converted' a rock'n'roll friend of mine into a TJB fan with that tune.
Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar
Member
Rosemary and Blueberry Park don't sound like they were from that era but what the heck. I liked them. It is so great to get this CD, it brings back lots of memories as a kid. Later.......Jay
Just picked up my copy at Fye! Sounds pretty good. I've never heard the whole album before, so most of the songs were first-time listens for me. There is a point I wanted to make about the casing that I had neglected to mention on my reviews of the previous CDs. I personally like this better than the usual jewel casing. For reissues of old albums, it gives a kind of vintage look to me.
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