The Promo Release Debate

[spanky1]

I don't think that you could make a blanket statement that any cd that is cut is a promo. I know that radio stations(at least in the past) would get various markings on promos. Back in the days of lp's, some labels would place a sticker, some would actually stamp into the cardboard, and some would hole punch(Capitol Records). I think with cd's you will also find various ways to distinguish these as promotional copies.

I know for a fact that just because a cd has a cut spine, that doesn't mean its a promo. This signifies a "cut-out" as someone mentioned earlier.

Michael H.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Wait, cut jewel cases mean "promos"? I'd been under the assumption that cut jewel cases just meant cutouts, as in meant-for-the-discount-bin.

That's probably more likely the case...but I've seen promos marked in just about every possible way, including cuts and drills, over the years.

 

[jimac51]

Just a few points of clarification. A drill mark, band saw cut or disguising a UPC on a CD gives you no meaning as to whether the item is an official cutout or promo but bear in mind that the days of over pressing material and putting it in a clearance bin are virtually nonexistent today. That CD in the used bin probably started life as a promo. There are no incentives for record companies to over press. "Shipped platinum" means nothing if a title doesn't go through the Soundscan system as a sale(but in the '70s "returned platinum" was the case for hot titles like SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER and GREASE). Over pressed material is a dissentive since there are no tax write offs anymore on unsold product-a warehouse full of 17.98 product that ain't moving is a warehouse full of expensive junk. And the days of flooding the market with this kind of material is forbidden in many contracts and cheapens the real product on the shelves. More than likely this stuff will get scrapped for a landfill. And I hope that everybody who bought a 1.99 cutout in Woolworth's realizes that there was probably as much a organized crime tie in as the pizza cheese in every mom 'n pop pizza shop-this stuff was purchased for pennies on the dollar and the artist was screwed out of everything as much as any promo purchase today. And speaking of promos-there is nothing special about a stock copy being defaced into a promo nowadays. The only special items are different versions-markings especially made for that item,different tracks,remixed versions,etc. Mac

 

[Mr Bill]

It depends on the label. Some cut or drill for "cut-outs" only. And cut-outs mean 'discontinued' or 'overstocked' items. For promos, many lables do the drill/sawcut thing or stamp, use stickers or obliterate the UPC code for promos. Even with the drill/saw cut method it is indicated somewhere else that it IS a promo item, IF it is a promo item.

--Mr Bill

 

[jimac51]

I probably have in my personal collection easily over 200 promo items-that is,freebies personally handed to me or mailed by reps with some kind of marking making them improbable to return for credit(saw cut,drill,magic marker,etc.), and have no marking whatsoever that they are promo items. And for every one I still have,I easily got rid of ten more that were of no personal use. Also,there is no rhyme nor reason for any of them and they cover all majors as well as independents with all of the variations. For example,as much as there may be official gold stamped WEA items,they regularly have used other common means to "promo" an item. Another "freebie" process is to do nothing to the product at all. These are known as "cleans" and they can be returned for credit to anyone who carries that product. The store I managed received "cleans" in lieu of legitimate ad promotional dollars-no way to trace where the money would eventually wind up. In the last few years,the majors have sent box lots of product,usually rap to urban independent stores, to get placement through Soundscan while stores like Best Buy sell the stuff below cost-it makes the indi store a bit more welcome to carry the next unknown act the labels are pushing till Best Buy and others deem the title worthy of presence in their stores. Another example of promotional freebies- while singles were still being made during this Soundscan era,free copies of certain singles would show up in the mail to be placed at a low price(under a buck) and placed at the checkout to manipulate Soundscan numbers. Customers would buy these like buying a pack of LifeSavers in a drug store. Most of Mariah Carey's so called #1s received this treatment while she was still married to then CBS chief Tommy Mottola. Not unlike Barry Bonds' steroid use,this created an unfair advantage of what was really a hit. And,like other clean material,this stuff was worth more to return than to sell but if the numbers didn't show up,you might be cut off of future freebies. Billboard has since changed the formula for chart success,making low ball sales of freebies not worth the trouble-hence, virtually no retail singles anymore. Mac

 

[thetijuanataxi]

Once in the mid "70's, I called A&M Records and told a lady in their sales dept. that I was trying to find an ochre label pressing of "GOING PLACES" on LP. She said she'd see what she could find out for me. A couple of weeks later, A sealed ochre label copy of GP arrived in my mail, with her thanks for being a fan of Herb's and A&M, no charge.

David,
recalling a fond A&M memory.........

 

[Dave]

Funny how it can be a "thin line" between an artist and/or record store willing to give out (or charge a "small fee" for) a "sample" of the artist's work and the downright piracy involved (and JEALOUSY...!) when things aren't so "mutual"...

Especially, when a "new item" (or items) in the artist's catalog is/are to meet an important, up-and-coming, big demand, given how long it's been since ANY product has been put out, in this (Herb's) case...

Just funny to read, from the gaggle of posts here, what a "flaming" topic this could become...

Hoping that I'm not starting (or continuing) any "flames" here... :|


Dave

 

[jfiedler17]

Another example of promotional freebies- while singles were still being made during this Soundscan era,free copies of certain singles would show up in the mail to be placed at a low price(under a buck) and placed at the checkout to manipulate Soundscan numbers. Customers would buy these like buying a pack of LifeSavers in a drug store. Most of Mariah Carey's so called #1s received this treatment while she was still married to then CBS chief Tommy Mottola. Not unlike Barry Bonds' steroid use,this created an unfair advantage of what was really a hit.

I'd almost forgot about that, but now you mention it, I do remember the checkout-counter cassette-single phenomenon! And when I think about it, it does seem like all of Mariah's mid-'90s singles got this treatment at the record stores here. I remember copies of "One Sweet Day" being on every record-store counter in my area for under fifty cents. (Which might explain why that record spent 16 weeks at #1; no other record in history bores me quite as senseless as that one, and I'm still a bit embarassed that that single still holds the record for the most weeks at #1. But I digress ...)

Jeff F.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

They did much the same thing for "Loverboy" and it artificially inflated the sales figures of that song too. That kind of trickery brought it to #1 for only a week though - indicative of the fact that even though people were picking it up on impulse, many people could smell it's stench and leave it where it was. You also have to love that it came from her multi-aluminum bomb, "Glitter". They should have tried the 99 cent trick on the whole record. It might have sold more than 10 copies if they had.

Ed

 

[Brasil_Nut]

I recall buying a stack of used Mendes Lps back when I was in high school. They were enclosed in the soft plastic envelope type sleeves, taped on the crease. I opened PRIMAL ROOTS to discover SERGIO MENDES & BRASIL '77 -- NIGHT & DAY. I'd never heard of such a thing. This was long before the Internet and information was not easily available. So, like David, I called A&M to check on the Lp. The lady told me there was no such release, so I left it at that.

Imagine my surprise to encounter a copy of NIGHT & DAY -- cover and all -- in another used record store many years later!! Makes me wonder if this might have been a time when A&M was in the process of updating the catalog listing? It would have been the late '70s. Perhaps they didn't have an updated catalog of compilation Lp titles at the time.

I just remember looking back on this and wondering why they had no idea of its existence at the time.

Jon

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Wasn't that a release in some other country? Or maybe a compilation for some special project (like the MUSIC BOX album?)

Before news of the TJB releases came out, I ordered SOUTH OF THE BORDER through GEMM from a store I'd never heard of. The album came in, and I took it to my office to do a needle drop ...and found the jacket contained GOING PLACES. Before I got around to sending it back, news of the new releases came out so I still have it.

My funniest experience with wrong packaging at the store came in the 70s when Carole King's FANTASY album came out. Someone bought it (on 8-track tape) and brought it back saying it "didn't sound like Carole King." Turned out the cartridge contained THE BEAT OF THE BRASS!

 

[Harry]

I recall buying a stack of used Mendes Lps back when I was in high school. They were enclosed in the soft plastic envelope type sleeves, taped on the crease. I opened PRIMAL ROOTS to discover SERGIO MENDES & BRASIL '77 -- NIGHT & DAY. I'd never heard of such a thing.

I finally unearthed a copy of this one just this past year. It's a UK Mayfair/A&M release; mine has the dark/light cats picture on it.

I just remember looking back on this and wondering why they had no idea of its existence at the time.

If it had no US release (which I believe is true), then they probably weren't aware of its existence overseas. The album seems to be an attempt for the label to put together a "Brasil '77" project using "Brasil '66" titles.

Harry

 

[TallPaulInKy]

If it were not for Promo Copies some of us would be missing out on some good music. Look at the A&M Discographies on this site, some of the singles were only issued in Promo Copies and sometimes it was a non lp cut.

 

[Rudy]

If it were not for Promo Copies some of us would be missing out on some good music. Look at the A&M Discographies on this site, some of the singles were only issued in Promo Copies and sometimes it was a non lp cut.

Welcome, Paul! Nice to see you here.

I agree--a lot of the older A&M stuff can only be found on promos. And I won't flinch when I buy those--they are sometimes bona fide rarities.

 

[TallPaulInKy]

Welcome, Paul! Nice to see you here.

I am not really new, just lost my password and couldn't figure out my old handle, so I guess I'm in the database base twice.

Old age gives some of us a poor memory.

 

[Rudy]

I am not really new, just lost my password and couldn't figure out my old handle, so I guess I'm in the database base twice.

Old age gives some of us a poor memory.

You're right--I can probably merge your old account into the new one when I get a chance....provided *I* can remember what your old handle was!