The semi-official VOLUME 2 thread

[Numero Cinco]

thusly, qualifying(in a way) as a new topic. both groups, while obviously different in most respects, had one common factor that identified them: harmony From the beginning, T.J.B. used harmony parts that had a distinctively 'Mex' quality, but that didn't always remain true, as the chart for "Lollipops & Roses" is basically a 'swing arrangement, with harmony that's right out of the Big Band Era(I'm a huge swing fan, and so I've listened to plenty of it.) "Lollopops" is clearly a 'little big band', with scarcely any Mex feel about it. . . . With instrumental aggregations, such boundaries are non-existant, and the Tijuana Brass is a shining example of proper harmony. Listen carefully to their recordings, and what one hears is not a formulized approach to harmony, but one that fluctuates consistently. One moment it's solo, then 1st and 3rd, then unison of 1st, and so forth. That's interesting to me. Made for intriquing records.

As for just when, and what album qualifies as T.J.B. proper, it's hard to say, and so I'll just observe, that the thing that made them(in my opinion) so cool, was that way of presenting melodies . . . THAT, to my sensibilities, is what the Tijuana Brass was all about: playing imaginative arrangements that just naturally piqued ones interest. That was a quality that just MADE the Brass special, and it's one that is present on every album that they issued. Everyone has their favorites, but in the end, it was Herb Alpert's way with a song, combined with superb fellow players that made for such a fascinating outfit.

Very perceptive comments, especially those about the Beatles. Some further reflections:

On a song like "Lollipops and Roses," I entirely agree that it shows Big Band's influence on Herb. Offhand, I can't think of a better example than the one you've picked. The thing that places a TJB stamp on "Lollipops," thus differentiating it from most Big Band swing, is the instrumentation. Strip out the marimbas and maracas, and it's straight swing. Reinsert them, and it's TJB.

On Herb's constant experimentation with harmony, see Lost Treasures's alternative take of "Up Cherry Street." It begins with trumpets harmonized in thirds, and stays that way with the exception of the last run-through before the key-change. In the version on You Smile, the harmony isn't introduced until after the bridge is first played.

As my previous posts indicate, I stand second to none in admiration for Mr. A.'s way to make a song his own. While chauffering a car full of fifty- and sixty-somethings the other day, I put Lost Treasures into my player and skipped immediately to "Happy Hour." No one had heard the track before, but everyone immediately recognized the artist. "That's Herb Alpert."

 

[venturaguy49]

Yes, that had to've been the Andy Williams Show(I just walked in
prior to that performance, so frankly, I didn't remember much else)
but that must've been it. It was completely different from the
album, which is a somewhat samba...as with Lonely Bull, which is a
cross between(I think) a bossa nova and cha-cha, America has that
same effect...one moment a modified rhumba, and then also a samba
(as if I'm that savvy of Latin dances, eh
Unfortunately, the tape bearing that show was recorded over repeatedly
untill the thing broke, so unless A y M has archived Brass shows, the only
way to hear it again is through memory...maybe one can hear n watch it
via one of those 'lucid dreams'. Well, at least I know where I'd seen it,
and that's so groovy that I just wanna freakin' celebrate!

Warm Wishes,
someone that's really gonna be hittin' the hookah
heavilly, and all cuzza learnin' where I'd heard that live version of...man
this is just like finding some sorta Holy Grail. Life, for right now, is good!

 

[Maitlen]

V-guy 49: Delighted to give your memories a boost -- regarding Herb's performance of "America" (I know it's supposed to be hyphenated, but I'm too lazy) on the Andy Williams show, circa '66. I had that performance running through my 13 year old brain for a long time, but it's gone now -- but I know the song was transformed, bearing all the virtues of the TJB at their '66 best. I regret "America '66" wasn't recorded for studio release, a' la Winds of Barcelona/El Presidente. I'm sure the new arrangement would have fit wonderfully on either WNML or SRO ... it was that good.

 

[venturaguy49]

I had the good fortune to have enjoyed the T.J.B. in concert at the Hollweird Bowl, which took place in '67. The groups two singles for the 'Ninth' album had already been released(so you can check the release dated in the Discography Dept for a fair idea of just when that H.B. date was, but what I also recall is around that time, the Brass also featured tv clips from what was the same concert tour, and also some cool studio effects (the song "Mae"
comes to mind as being one of the studio-enhanced items.) Prob is, that I can't differentiate the tv version from the live, as the two, after all this time, tend to blend together, so to save my life, I can't say if this or that tune was featured on one or the other, save for a handfull of songs that I recall on both, or a couple that registered as purely one or the other.
Another group member mentioned "Never On Sunday" haven been played live, which just zapped me. Up 'til then, I thought it was "Strutting With Maria"...in other words, a title from their debut disk...well, anyway, because "Winds of Barcelona" was also amongst the mentioned tunes, means, most likely, that it's one and the same show/concert, and lemme say that it was such magic. If I live to be a hundred(52 now), I don't think that I'll ever again experience such enchantment again, hearing those alternative versions of items that I'd listened to countless times on record.
Somethings just have a special effect; a time, place, or just an openess
to the experience, but that really stayed with me. Now, as to the Andy Williams thing. For ages, I thought that the A.W. appearance was much earlier than the concert, but as you know, memories don't always reveal timelines faithfully. I've a dear and longtime friend that I have a mutual memory with in which he insists that it happened months earlier than I recall it haven happened, so here we are, he y I recalling the very same event, but because it was in differnt time, it also includes slightly different people, too, but that's memories for you, that they aren't always placed where they should be, but I'd bet a fair ammount that •my• version is correct, and Doug Light(who's a terrifically skilled drummer, and through which I had the good chance to meet and yak with Nick Cerloli) will swear on Count Basie's grave, that this event happened later. What if it happened twice, in a way. Like two identical events involving the same place, and so forth, and both Doug and I only recall one time each?
Being middle-aged can furtherly confuse matter, eh, or maybe it's a dream, and one passed it to the other, and the timeline got distorted in the process.
Being a big Twilght Zone fan, I can come up with all sorts of scenarios, and any of which would make your average cow pasture envious
And with that, I'll adjourn to get some more hookah, and bid y'all a great one.

Warm Wishes,
Yer Fav'rite Nutcase

 

[Peter]

Moderator's Note: The contact info has been removed at the request of Shout! Factory and some of its employees. Please respect their privacy!!!Capt. B

Dear Captain, what privacy do you mean? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought them guys from Shout Factory are not private persons but rather some kind of a commercial company, aren't they? So what privacy of them you are speaking about? Not that I would write them love letters (my money for ALL Herb Alpert recent and future re-isues must be pretty enough for them) but if I happen to run some enterprise, I have to count with such cases, that sometimes somebody will write an e-mail message to me. Maybe I am wrong, I am not living in U.S.A. and here in Eastern Europe we sometimes write e-mails to some commercial companies without having some troubles with disturb someone's privacy.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Dear Captain, what privacy do you mean? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought them guys from Shout Factory are not private persons but rather some kind of a commercial company, aren't they?

Shout! Factory is a very small company with just a few people working there. We had some overzealous fans flooding Shout with the same types of e-mails when the reissue series first started and it was interfering with their work. Yes, they are private people who are doing a job they love and if they don't want their names/titles out in the open for all to see then that is their right. We want to keep a good relationship with them so we will respect their wishes.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Peter]

Yes, they are private people who are doing a job they love and if they don't want their names/titles out in the open for all to see then that is their right. We want to keep a good relationship with them so we will respect their wishes.

Thanks, Captain, I got it.

 

[daveK]

Maybe VOLUME 2 was skipped because they are having to take more time to remaster it. Perhaps there was a defect in the master tapes or something and they're just trying to get it right before putting it out.

 

[Dore Adler]

Well, Herb has stated that it is his least favorite TJB album. I think that has a lot to do with it. Personally, I don't see what the problem is. A transistional album, yes, but a damn fine one, IMO.

 

[lswilson99]

If HA really doesn't like this album then I have a suggestion for Herb that could satisfy everyone and enhance sales. Why not make this a special release (double disc) with remastered original recording and second disc produced in Herb's current style!

Any thoughts by anyone else along these lines?

Len

 

[AudiophilePhil]

I can't wait to see "Vol.2's" album cover on Shout digipak. It's my favourite Herb Alpert & the TJB's album cover.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Volume 2 is essential...

 

[Rex]

Herb, give us Vol. 2 or we will stop buying your CD's.

Yeah. Right.

Herb, please reissue Vol. 2. You may not have liked it, but many of your fans do

 

[Rex]

If HA really doesn't like this album then I have a suggestion for Herb that could satisfy everyone and enhance sales. Why not make this a special release (double disc) with remastered original recording and second disc produced in Herb's current style!

Any thoughts by anyone else along these lines?

Len

Len, ABSOLUTELY! ANYthing to get our hands on Vol. 2

 

[Numero Cinco]

Until now, I've stayed out of the Volume 2 conversation, on the principle that Mr. A. and Shout! will do what they choose to do.

But I now will add only two words: "Mexican Corn." A delightful song, delightfully rendered, which pointed to the TJB's future. I'd buy the whole CD for those two happy minutes alone, to say nothing of the album's other, almost lost treasures.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

The TjB LP that first caught my ear (listen up Shout Factory, lol): Volume 2. The song "America" was the single that hooked me for life!

 

[venturaguy49]

This was issued some time back by A y M, and the really odd thing is that a second image is placed over the main one, but off to the side somewhat.
Now I realize that hookah is fairly strong salsa, and yes, it's been known to incurr delusions(the stuff's vitual magma in a bottle), and during peak moments between consuming it, and quenching one's burning throat with water, there's that moment that's like a near death experience, which causes one to percieve things in ways that one wouldn't ordinarilly, but trust me on this: that A&M's version of Vol 2 isn't a hookized delusion.
As for me(and this is a topic almost as hot as hookah itself I'd appreciate knowing just where those T.J.B. cover-sites were located
(such as South of Border/What Now My Love etc. The graphics for Vol 2 are most likely Spain(notice that all the cities referred to in song titles are in Spain, where the rain falls mainly on the plane...not helicopters nor u.f.o.s...no, it's on planes..,I dunno how they doit, but that's what de song sez, but anywhat, backto Brass' covers. If anyone knows just where those locations are(I'm assuming that had they been movie studio props, that credits to that effect would have been required(such as the "Going Places" from cover shot. Hey, with this Internet, and the right infor, we could be treated to some further pix(maybe?)
****the crazy thoughts that hookahheads tend to get****

Warm Wishes,
hookahhead

 

[Harry]

One of the printing plates somehow got reversed on the VOLUME 2 CD cover that A&M released, producing that backwards ghost image of the towers in the background. You can even see the top line sloping the wrong way.

Harry
...hoping that if Shout! Factory ever gets around to this one, that they fix the front graphics, online...

 

[TonyCurrie]

I appreciate that like any artiste, Herb has things he's proud of and things he didn't like so much.....

But I have to tell you I can STILL remember in great detail the afternoon in 1966 when I was on holiday in the little Scottish Highland town of Pitlochry and I saw an EP of Herb's in the window of the local record shop.

It was raining, and I was greatly attracted by the album sleeve ('scuse me a moment while I skip "Talk to the Animals on the CD....ah that's better. Now where was I? Oh yes, the sleeve...) which was a stock photo of a Mexican market place. Very colourful. And unusually the disc was on EMI's "Stateside" label, not the usual "Pye International". 13 shillings and eight pence it was. And I had a ten-bob note and half-a-crown in my pocket. Back to the car parked outside and I wheedled one shilling and twopence out of him and shot back into the shop. (It sold records, TVs, hats, paintings and all sorts of other things. In fact there were only a handful of records in the window.) But before I handed over my precious 13/8 (that's 66 pence - about a dollar in today's money) I demanded to be allowed to hear the WHOLE of the EP. (My own record player was 120 miles away and our holiday had three weeks left to run.) The shop had a brand new record player in the window, so the shop girl (clearly wanting a quiet life) calmly plugged it in, and put the soon-to-be-Tony's disc on the platter. And as elderly ladies came and went, trying on hats and jackets, I stood in a quiet corner enjoying for the very first time America/Mexican Corn/Winds of Barcelona/Spanish Harlem.

I already had "Whipped Cream" and some singles, but since that moment, I've always considered that quartet amongst the best things that Herb ever arranged.

Volume 2 simply HAS to be reissued!!

 

[venturaguy49]

And although I do have the A&M version of the cd, the fact is that V-2 is an appealing production that deserves more than being a resident on the T.J.B.'s back-burner. Fact is, that many impressive innovations were introduced via that disk: The vocal unit on "More"(which should have been issued as a single) is clearly the prototype of the "Christmas Album", albeit by '68, Herb's music was notably jazzier, but still, that vocal aggregation from a few years earlier really does come across to me as the precurser of a later production...opinions, as with navels, are what we all have, tho' Also, those nifty hand drums(bongos, conga and such) that grace numerous tracks are so pleasing to me. I'll call attention to yet another item: "Swinger From Seville", which bears an uncanny likeness to another tune that was created by the legendary jazz composer Thelonious Sphere Monk(and that was his real name)..."Seville" is very similar to Monk's song "Blue Monk". If you have a jazz-oriented friend, ask them to play that tune for you, as it's remarkably alike to the Alpert item. It's well-know that Herb's a jazz buff, so "Seville" was his(Herb's) way of presenting a tribute to a very beloved member of the jazz community(or that's how it comes across to me.) Other innovations abound on V-2: that bass guitar that rumbles in to introduce "Mexican Corn", or the majestic and stirring "Marching Through Madrid", or the soulfull "Crea Mi Amor", and others are what the Brass was all about: innovative, imaginative arrangements and performances. Yes, V-2 clearly does belong. Now, I'll shift topic and head out.
Back when the album "Beat Of The Brass" was issued, a friend of mine also was put off w/"Talk To The Animals"(really, it's more for children), but in time I've come to appreciate it. Why, you may ask, well the reason why is that it's fun(if one can allow themselves to get beyond their adultish ways as just relax with some amusing fluff. Secondly, it neatly offsets "Slick", which comes across as even neater when following the contrastingly juvinile "Animals"...it just works that way, so when you flip the record over, or just let the cd play though, after all that silliness of TTTA makes almost •anything• cool seem all the more impressive, so don't zip "Animals" from the program, but instead, dig how it sets the stage from what follows:what's arguable the hippest Brass recording ever, with that swingy shuffle beat, and those cool vibes(the mood on that track was virtually all Wechter, or so it seems. It's a superb production, that ironically, is enhanced by the presence of "Animals".

Warm Wishes,
hookahhead

 

[Rex]

Hi Herb!

Still waiting on Volume 2

Can you by :bigsanta:

Sincerely,

Rex

 

[AM Matt]

I think that Shout! Factory is dusting off the reel to reel tape for "Volume 2" for superior sound quality!!! Matt Clark Sanford, MI

 

[Dore Adler]

I certainly hope so!!! It would leave a big hole in the TJB catalogue if it was to remain unreleased.

 

[ormandy]

I found a mint copy of Volume 2 in Berkeley. YES!!!!
It sounds great. I added extra bass while listening,
just to hear how it will sound once it's remastered in 2006.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Isn't there a quote from Herb in another thread that hints that he'd like to completely remaster Volume 2 and rerelease it? Evidently, this would require a lot more work than the previous albums have needed. If the original master tapes still exist, that is...

I'm not sure just what it is that Herb doesn't like about the albums' sound, but I don't think it has to do with the sales or the selection of material...I think he considers the engineering to be weaker than his other efforts. I'm not sure just how correctible this might be...if several instruments were combined on one track, it might be impossible to do much with it.


Dan