This Can't Really Be It...Can It?

[ScottyB]

I tried to look for a thread that focused on this subject, but couldn't find one.
So, I thought I would start one.

Since Karen's passing, numerous posthumous releases have been made available.
Most have been new compilations. But every now and then there would be a new release
with a "never before released" gem. The most recent of these releases, to my recollection,
was As Time Goes By, way back in 2004.
Richard has also stated, on multiple occasions, that everything releasable has been released.
Yet, he has also supplied the fans with a surprise at times.
In his latest interview, he firmly stated that all there was is out there.
However, with the latest release of The Complete Singles, it is clear that there is more.
I don't mean a new song. What I mean, is that there are still things out there for
hard core Carpenters fans. This set contains multiple variations to songs that were
difficult to acquire (for me anyway). For instance, clean versions of Maybe It's You
and Road Ode, two songs that rank among my favorite Carpenters songs, that I have been trying to
master onto a Favorites CD collection without the album segueing.
And, as time progresses, and learning through a lot of media, including this forum,
that there is, in fact, still a substantial amount of unreleased material; I find it very hard to accept that
we will never hear any "new" officially released material.
I have heard Karen's "leftover" recordings from her solo sessions. I agree that they are raw
and they need a lot of work, but I don't believe that they are impossible to improve upon. Most of them are quite good. Richard could always take the vocals, improve on the arrangements, add additional (if not, better) instruments, and actually make it an official Carpenters album (because he would have actually provided participation with Karen). He has the talent to actually accomplish this feat. Plus, all those so-called unreleased songs recorded during the Made In America sessions, along with "who-knows-what-else" that have not been made aware of.
I can not believe, in fact I refuse to believe, that this is it.
I still believe that we will see something spectacular, especially for the 50th. I have faith.
If I'm wrong...oh well, everyone can bash me in 2019.
But, if I'm right, which I believe I will be,
I expect to be exalted in everlasting glory. LOL!
Just kidding, folks. Only having some fun.
I just want it so bad. And I've often heard it said:
"If you want something bad enough, it is always obtainable."

 

[byline]

I just want it so bad. And I've often heard it said:
"If you want something bad enough, it is always obtainable."

But it's only possible if the person who can make it happen wants it badly enough. In this case, that person is Richard. And I think he is really, truly done. In my opinion, what he's saying when he says it's all out there is that everything he considers worthy of public release (and then some) is out there, and he's done his best with it. I think he has moved on. As much as I would enjoy some new surprises, I respect that this is where he is in his life, and I enjoy the half-full glass we were given.

 

[Mark-T]

I believe it is "it" also. The sad thing is- as much as I love their work- I just don't listen to them as much as before. Maybe once a month, actually and mostly selected songs. Perhaps that may change over time.

 

[arthowson]

I've been listening to 1989's Lovelines album a lot lately.

 

[CraigGA]

I believe it is "it" also. The sad thing is- as much as I love their work- I just don't listen to them as much as before. Maybe once a month, actually and mostly selected songs. Perhaps that may change over time.

I don't think I have ever gone that long without hearing Karen sing. Maybe two weeks? But when I take that long of a break I just make up for it with a Carpenters marathon once I hear Karen's voice again.

 

[Charlie D]

I believe it is "it" also. The sad thing is- as much as I love their work- I just don't listen to them as much as before. Maybe once a month, actually and mostly selected songs. Perhaps that may change over time.

Is that due more to being busy with other things in life or just tired of hearing the music?

And welcome back.

 

[Mark-T]

Some of both. But I also associate their music with the past, so I guess in a way I've moved on. I'd be stoked again over something new, though.
Thank you for the kind welcome back...

 

[ScottyB]

I guess it's never really "it" as long as you keep the legacy alive in your heart. Maybe that's something I need to acknowledge more often.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I go through periods where I don't listen to my favorites much, but then something will spark in me somewhere and I'll want to listen to that music again. Next thing you know I'm album-bingeing. That happened a few weeks ago with The Alan Parsons Project, another favorite of mine.

I suppose "it" means what 'byline' said -- everything commercially viable (or "not too embarrassing") is out there, and Richard is "done" unless a request comes in for something worthwhile -- like the recent PBS offering.

Makes me curious as to what kind of an idea might spark him to do something. I can't imagine the 50th anniversary will go by without some kind of release.

 

[tomswift2002]

There's still a few things in the vault that he could probably release. It's been rumoured, and even videos have been leaked online of new Christmas songs that he was recording for a solo Christmas album, plus there are still fully completed solo Christmas tracks, like "Toyland" and "Home For The Holidays" from the 70's and 80's that haven't been released, aside from being broadcast on TV (and the tracks most likely exist in stereo, as in both cases, when Richard was on screen there were no musical instruments around him, and even his Solid Gold Performance seemed at time to be not quite synchronized).

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I'm sure curious about that recent oft-delayed Christmas album. In the Joe Osborn interviews from last year he was talking about working on it so we know it's a "real" thing. Seems strange Richard would just keep it on the shelf. He could self-release it if he wanted to - maybe he's just not into the music biz anymore...?

 

[newvillefan]

there are still fully completed solo Christmas tracks, like "Toyland" and "Home For The Holidays" from the 70's and 80's that haven't been released, aside from being broadcast on TV (and the tracks most likely exist in stereo, as in both cases, when Richard was on screen there were no musical instruments around him, and even his Solid Gold Performance seemed at time to be not quite synchronized).

To be honest I wouldn't really be interested in hearing any more Christmas instrumentals. We have more than enough of them on the Christmas albums, especially An Old Fashioned Christmas.

 

[mr J.]

I'm sure curious about that recent oft-delayed Christmas album. In the Joe Osborn interviews from last year he was talking about working on it so we know it's a "real" thing. Seems strange Richard would just keep it on the shelf. He could self-release it if he wanted to - maybe he's just not into the music biz anymore...?

That Christmas album is not so recent: Richard started working on that in 2008-and was still working on it in 2013.

The Joe Osborn interview was actually two years ago(2013).

I believe Richard hasn't been able to find a label that wants to release it-and he evidently just decided to shelve the project. I think Richard wants to maintain the major label affiliation-and probably wouldn't consider a small indie label or self-release for this album.

Richard also recorded another Christmas project "Together At Christmas Again" in 2001.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

That Christmas album is not so recent: Richard started working on that in 2008-and was still working on it in 2013.

Well...in Carpenters terms that IS recent!

The Joe Osborn interview was actually two years ago(2013).

Yeah, I knew that, I got the years mixed up. Times goes faster the older you get, I've found.

I believe Richard hasn't been able to find a label that wants to release it-and he evidently just decided to shelve the project.

Maybe right - I just don't understand why he wouldn't want it out there, after working on it for years, especially when he knows fans are clamoring for it -- but who knows what's on his mind?

 

[tomswift2002]

Well...in Carpenters terms that IS recent!


Maybe right - I just don't understand why he wouldn't want it out there, after working on it for years, especially when he knows fans are clamoring for it -- but who knows what's on his mind?

Actually I remember hearing about Richard's solo Christmas album back in 2002. But it would be nice if he released it, even if it was through iTunes.

 

[GaryAlan]

And, glancing at the ASCAP Repository, Richard Carpenter is listed with a total of 75 compositions.
A few of the Christmas songs: (at, least, those obviously related to Christmas via the title)
Christmas Every Day
Christmas Time is Here
Christmas Turned Blue (Matsuda, foreign artist release)
December Morn (Matsuda, foreign artist release)
Gleeful Christmas
Holiday Trio
It's Christmas Time At Last
Season of Wonder
That's My Kind of Holiday
This Time of The Year
Together At Christmas Again

I wonder how many of those songs lyrics by Pamela Phillips Oland, and, how many--if any-- by John Bettis ?
The website for Pamela Phillips Oland is well done, with samples of her songs (also, December Morn).....this is ---at very least--one viable
avenue to get unreleased songs out to "the fans and general public."
The two performed by Matsuda are fantastic, lyrics supplied by Pamela Phillips Oland.
For one who started a Superstar career in Joe Osborne's garage,
segued in 1969 to a (then) smallish, independent, label-- the logic that Richard Carpenter does not want to release these
wonderful songs due to "...wanting to maintain an affiliation with a Major Label..." holds no sway. (In my opinion.)
As usual, I ask, what motivates this artist/composer ? (Only money ?).

 

[tomswift2002]

Richard did write "An Old-Fashioned Christmas" with John Bettis. So there's another Christmas song that if he wanted to he could re-record as a solo artist.

 

[Another Son]

I tried to look for a thread that focused on this subject, but couldn't find one.
So, I thought I would start one.

Since Karen's passing, numerous posthumous releases have been made available.
Most have been new compilations. But every now and then there would be a new release
with a "never before released" gem. The most recent of these releases, to my recollection,
was As Time Goes By, way back in 2004.
Richard has also stated, on multiple occasions, that everything releasable has been released.
Yet, he has also supplied the fans with a surprise at times.
In his latest interview, he firmly stated that all there was is out there.
However, with the latest release of The Complete Singles, it is clear that there is more.
I don't mean a new song. What I mean, is that there are still things out there for
hard core Carpenters fans. This set contains multiple variations to songs that were
difficult to acquire (for me anyway). For instance, clean versions of Maybe It's You
and Road Ode, two songs that rank among my favorite Carpenters songs, that I have been trying to
master onto a Favorites CD collection without the album segueing.
And, as time progresses, and learning through a lot of media, including this forum,
that there is, in fact, still a substantial amount of unreleased material; I find it very hard to accept that
we will never hear any "new" officially released material.
I have heard Karen's "leftover" recordings from her solo sessions. I agree that they are raw
and they need a lot of work, but I don't believe that they are impossible to improve upon. Most of them are quite good. Richard could always take the vocals, improve on the arrangements, add additional (if not, better) instruments, and actually make it an official Carpenters album (because he would have actually provided participation with Karen). He has the talent to actually accomplish this feat. Plus, all those so-called unreleased songs recorded during the Made In America sessions, along with "who-knows-what-else" that have not been made aware of.
I can not believe, in fact I refuse to believe, that this is it.
I still believe that we will see something spectacular, especially for the 50th. I have faith.
If I'm wrong...oh well, everyone can bash me in 2019.
But, if I'm right, which I believe I will be,
I expect to be exalted in everlasting glory. LOL!
Just kidding, folks. Only having some fun.
I just want it so bad. And I've often heard it said:
"If you want something bad enough, it is always obtainable."

I remember that in the original Carpenters fan-club newsletter, in 1978, Richard answered a question about upcoming releases and said that 'Thank You for the Music' or 'Dancing in the Streets' would be The Carpenters' next single. When I read that, I assumed that there were already studio versions recorded. Probably most of us have already seen the live performance on Youtube of 'Thank You for the Music' from TV, 1978. I wonder if, when performing this, Karen & Richard were testing public response before recording a version, or after, or beginning to promote what they believed would be their next release. About the left-over solo recordings, in my opinion, there are a couple of beauties, such as Paul Simon's 'I Do It For your Love'. A number of the others would require some 'tweaking' on Karen's vocals, if they were to be released. For instance, 'Midnight' is a beautiful song, but, from memory, she stops singing for a second in one spot, loses her breath in another and misses a couple of notes. I think the version I've heard would have been a 'work lead', rather than a finished vocal. And there are others of a similar vein. But I agree. It would be great if these could be tweaked and released. What about those brilliant live recordings from The Bruce Forsythe show, and similar? They'd be wonderful to have in commercial quality on CD. The full Bacharach-David Medley, recorded live in Las Vegas and released on Carpenters' Anthology, was a real treat for fans when it came out. More live recordings like this would be a real thrill for all of us. I know that Richard said on the RichardandKarenCarpenter site that only two live shows were ever recorded properly; 'Live at the Palladium' and 'Live in Japan'; but you'd think there'd be more live recordings in the vaults somewhere, especially seeing as the Vegas recording was already known to exist.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Didnt he have real plans to release a third Christmas album over a decade ago and nothing really came about? It's a shame, because it could have been another gem. He could have gotten some guest vocalists like Akiko back and written some new material. Was it that he couldn't actually get it made? Did A&M not want to release it?

Also, has does anybody know any place where you can buy/hear the Christmas tracks he did with Seiko in 2000? I really want to hear what he did with those two.

We've discussed that oft-mentioned Christmas album ad nauseum over the years here. In an interview on The Download, Joe Osborn talks about making that album and says it's got amazing material, a new female vocalist who sounds nothing like Karen, and they had completed quite a few tracks, but we've heard nothing since then. Theories range from "It's not finished" to "Nobody wants to release it" but nobody has ever unearthed any definite answers as to why it's not been released or if it ever will be.

 

[CraigGA]

I feel that time is better spent releasing something of Karen, whatever is left that she would approve.

 

[Harry]

Fans will buy what you put out Richard, I promise you!

They didn't with PIANIST ARRANGER COMPOSER CONDUCTOR or TIME, so why would they now, 18 and 28 years later?

Harry

 

[newvillefan]

He's one of the best examples of a musician who seriously underutilized their gifts and in a sense wasted it on such third rate material (Time, Scott Grimes, Veronique) when he could have completely rejuvenated his career is multiple ways.

I couldn't agree more with that.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I doubt he thought those albums were "third rate material" when he made them.

We've all discussed the myriad ways he could have continued on post-Karen. He chose not to do it because he didn't want to overshadow her legacy. Same way Led Zeppelin stopped existing (for the most part) when John Bonham died.

 

[GaryAlan]

I purchased cd's of Time and PACC only because I was a Carpenters 'fan'----not due to any promotion or songs being played on radio.
Again, PACC was initially a request for the Japanese market following the sales strength of 22 Hits CD.( my source: Greg Rule Interview Keyboard Magazine August 1998)

An 11/29/97 (Hindustan Times) Interview with Richard Carpenter:
"...and, I think it's time to move on,except for the occasional compilation that will be continued to be asked for.
" It's just, every time I say this, something else pops up."
" But, the time has come to move on just a little bit from here."
"...I would prefer the next one (album) to have either something original or non-Carpenters, just for a change."
" We really did not think about making it enduring when we were first recording this stuff."

Alas',
As far as I have been able to ascertain, Album Time got virtually zero promotion.
(Notwithstanding a snippet in Newspapers and this People Article).
Irrespective of characterization of "the material",
recall these words from October 26, 1987 People Magazine Interview:
"Record business wisdom would have Carpenter go out on tour to support his new LP, but he plans to stay home for a while."
"My intention (ref: Album Time) was to get back into my music and create something new," says Carpenter.
"I loved working with our older music, the Carpenter things, remixing them for CDs and all that. But I'm very much into the future too."

Source:
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20097442,00.html

 

[song4u]

Oh wow, so a good deal of it is in fact completed. Richard always pulls this sh!t about albums and material that he has locked away, all done, but for some reason can never release. I trust Osborn that there probably is great material in those sessions and it's a shame that even an EP or something couldn't be released. Fans will buy what you put out Richard, I promise you! He's such a talented guy, but man is he screwy.

When I read that he regretted ever putting out Voice of the Heart, OFC, and Lovelines can't say I was surprised but I was still shocked - how could someone ever regret putting out such wonderful, timeless material? Yes, Karen was gone and the Carpenters were over, but why should that mean that such amazing songs have to sit and collect dust forever. We know that he's confident in his talent and his sister's, so whats the problem? His career ended when she passed and it's not like their image problems would have changed any if the albums weren't released. It's a touchy subject but it's seriously worthy of discussion. I know I'm ragging on him but the decline of his career outside of posthumous Carpenters albums/remixes is upsetting. He's one of the best examples of a musician who seriously underutilized their gifts and in a sense wasted it on such third rate material (Time, Scott Grimes, Veronique) when he could have completely rejuvenated his career is multiple ways. If he didn't do any albums or remixes after her death then he would literally have done nothing of note (Akiko aside) and that's sad to me.

Perhaps its the emotional dynamics that played a huge part - he lived, created, and performed in a bubble with Karen (and the family) and when she was gone it popped in his face and he created a new one, professionally and personally. One example is provided recently by Cubby O'Brien who says that Richard hasn't been in contact with the old gang in years and has tried his best to avoid them it seems. Of course that's his personal right, but why? Karen had her demons and when she passed maybe his started to become apparent to himself. The new bubble maybe couldn't suffice, and anything created or completed without her by his side was still living outside of the old shell, with his (and again, the family's) conservative, comforting ethos shattered along with it. How does one survive when that mindset, that way of living becomes a ruined thing of the past? As Karen's tragic death has proven, sometimes you just can't.

Honestly I think some of his regrets may come as a result of the backlash he gets from people blaming him about the past. And being a perfectionist, he likely thinks he could have done better.

As for not associating with the 'old gang', it likely reminds him of the pain of his loss, and maybe even his addiction.