UK Carpenters night comin up June 3rd

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GaryAlan said:
Thanks for the details regarding the Merv Griffin Episodes.
This makes me wonder/ask :
Is the actual reason for all of the lip-synced Carpenters' performances
due to the issue that--if the song is lip-synced--Richard Carpenter would
forever have the ultimate authority over its ever being released by another
business entity ?
That reasoning makes much more sense to me:
considering that Karen Carpenter was
always spot-on with her vocals, it never made any sense to me
that they would ever lip-sync a performance.
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It would be impossible to replicate those studio harmonies in a live performance, one of the downsides of an engineered harmonic sound, no matter how gorgeous it sounded on tape, it would be impossible singing it live.
 
There was also the fact that Richard never cared for the sound of live performances. The studio was where it was at for him - and Karen too. That's where the perfection was able to be created, and the recordings that came from the studio were the evidence of that perfection.

The goal of TV appearances was always to help sell records, and any imperfections from a live performance weren't perceived as motivating factors to rush out and buy a record.

So, you're booked to appear on a TV show - more than likely you'll perform to your already perfectly recorded track. Most artists did that back then. It was the way things were done. Any time songs were done live, they sounded "thin", for lack of a better term. There were missing instruments that had been used to sweeten the record that might have to be filled by someone else - or left out. Orchestral swells weren't possible with a six-or-seven member band. And in the case of Carpenters, the all-important backing harmonies had to be improvised by the backing band.

Harry
 
An excellent point, Chris Mills ! And, Harry !
However, I submit that when an audience hears a Carpenters' performance,
what they really are interested in is the voice--the lead voice--of Karen Carpenter.
The Bruce Forsythe Program performance of
I Need To Be In Love,
is virtually absent background harmonies or orchestra, or any 'extras',
yet, it is memorable, beautiful, flawless,
and, by any conceivable measure---timeless.
 
Harry said:
There was also the fact that Richard never cared for the sound of live performances. The studio was where it was at for him - and Karen too. That's where the perfection was able to be created, and the recordings that came from the studio were the evidence of that perfection.

The goal of TV appearances was always to help sell records, and any imperfections from a live performance weren't perceived as motivating factors to rush out and buy a record.

So, you're booked to appear on a TV show - more than likely you'll perform to your already perfectly recorded track. Most artists did that back then. It was the way things were done. Any time songs were done live, they sounded "thin", for lack of a better term. There were missing instruments that had been used to sweeten the record that might have to be filled by someone else - or left out. Orchestral swells weren't possible with a six-or-seven member band. And in the case of Carpenters, the all-important backing harmonies had to be improvised by the backing band.

Harry
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and try as they may the backup band never came close to the lush overdubs. Harry, I think the word "thin" adequately describes some portions of the live performances. In addition, the lack of Karen's vocal doubling and perfect reverb presented drawbacks. However, wouldn't trade my concerts for nuttin.
 
I have a copy of the never before broadcast element of the Merv Griffin show albeit with timecode and copyright protection graphics on it. Seeing as you seem really into it I will email the copyrite owners and ask if I can be allowed to pass it on to your forum. We paid them a tidy sum to use it - and other Carpenters material - so they might be nice and say yes. But don't hold your breath. If they say no my hands are tied. But no harm asking.
 
KCGTL said:
Reelz will def show it - I just don't know when - We have even produced a US version which quotes Karen's weight in pounds and not stone (as we do in UK) but the film is identical in every other respect.
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I have just emailed the Reelz cable channel to ask if they plan to air this show in the US on the Reelz cable channel in the future. I have provided them details that the show just aired in the UK and asked if they might air it any time soon. I will report back if they respond.

There email is: [email protected]
 
wideawakeat4am said:
1st advert...

Her accent isn't much like Karen's but a UK audience aren't expecting her to sound anything more than vaguely American.
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I don't think anyone who has played Karen yet, American or British, has been able to pull off her very distinctive speaking voice. Her accent was Connecticut-to-California (for obvious reasons), with a bit of Midwestern in the way that she pronounced a hard short "a" sound. (Maybe she picked that up from her father, who spent a lot of time in Ohio- just something I noticed as an Ohioan). She had a low speaking voice (like her singing voice, of course), sometimes tomboyish (in LGB, her friends noted she tried to talk like a beatnik as a teen), but at the same time, it was very melodic and friendly. In interviews, she'd pause between words a lot, like she was thinking about what she wanted to get out, but in candid conversations, spoke normally. And when she was angry, Richard noted that she became very eloquent.

I do think Adele Keating has looked the most like Karen so far.
 
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KCGTL said:
I have a copy of the never before broadcast element of the Merv Griffin show albeit with timecode and copyright protection graphics on it. Seeing as you seem really into it I will email the copyrite owners and ask if I can be allowed to pass it on to your forum. We paid them a tidy sum to use it - and other Carpenters material - so they might be nice and say yes. But don't hold your breath. If they say no my hands are tied. But no harm asking.
Click to expand...

Thanks, KCGTL, for all of your hard work on this project, and for offering to get the footage to us diehards. We appreciate your efforts very much! :)

Bob
 
GaryAlan said:
An excellent point, Chris Mills ! And, Harry !
However, I submit that when an audience hears a Carpenters' performance,
what they really are interested in is the voice--the lead voice--of Karen Carpenter.
The Bruce Forsythe Program performance of
I Need To Be In Love,
is virtually absent background harmonies or orchestra, or any 'extras',
yet, it is memorable, beautiful, flawless,
and, by any conceivable measure---timeless.
Click to expand...
If you listen to 'Please Mr Postman' from the same show, Karen's vocal sounds great, but listen to those backing vocals, spoils it for me, but without backing vocals 'Please Mr Postman' would not work.
 
GaryAlan said:
Agreed, Chris Mills !
However, and I may deviate from others' views on this issue---
I am not looking for "perfection" on any live performance,
harmonies or not.
I can get "perfection" on the records !
If live, I prefer 'warts and all' , they are human after-all!
Click to expand...
In a concert hall their live sound worked great, but for TV, sometimes that live sound would come across as inferior.
 
KCGTL said:
I have a copy of the never before broadcast element of the Merv Griffin show albeit with timecode and copyright protection graphics on it. Seeing as you seem really into it I will email the copyrite owners and ask if I can be allowed to pass it on to your forum. We paid them a tidy sum to use it - and other Carpenters material - so they might be nice and say yes. But don't hold your breath. If they say no my hands are tied. But no harm asking.
Click to expand...

That would be great, thanks! I'm sure you will do what you can.

In one of the scenes about Karen's last night, she is in her room talking on the telephone but it's not clear who she is talking to although as she's making plans to meet them the next day, I'm assuming it's Olivia Newton-John. Is it this telephone call you are recreating? I just wondered if there was a reason why it would not have been mentioned. Also, the friendship with Olivia is never mentioned that I can recall. Is there any reason for this?
 
wideawakeat4am said:
In one of the scenes about Karen's last night, she is in her room talking on the telephone but it's not clear who she is talking to although as she's making plans to meet them the next day, I'm assuming it's Olivia Newton-John. Is it this telephone call you are recreating? I just wondered if there was a reason why it would not have been mentioned. Also, the friendship with Olivia is never mentioned that I can recall. Is there any reason for this?
Click to expand...

I believe that was Frenda Franklin :)
 
Rick-An Ordinary Fool said:
There have been several Merv Griffin DVD releases from Reelin In The Years from his tv show of the 70's and 80's however The Carpenters have never appeared on any of those released box sets. The Carpenters appeared on Nov 02, 1981. Reelin In The Years has a website and you can search Carpenters and a list appears of video footage from their performances that they own the rights. The Merv Griffin Show appears on that list and consists of the interview, (Want You) Back In My Life Again (3:53) and Those Good Old Dreams (4:19)

Reelin' in the Years Productions, LLC | The world's premier source for footage of musical artists, entertainers and history makers »

Go to Search Our Database type in Carpenters, scroll down to the last 3 entries they are for The Merv Griffin Show

We know as fans of the Carpenters that many have already seen this show although in poor quality, fans still have it from VHS tapes when the show aired, however like Stephen mentioned, Those Good Old Dreams was cut from the show. However according to this website I mentioned above, both videos and interview exists but they only send this material out to legitimate projects to clients in the entertainment industry which is why KCGTL above has acquired the rights to show the clip of Those Good Old Dreams from the Merv Griffin show.

So Stephen to answer your question (which you probably already knew) ha....the complete lost video of Those Good Old Dreams from The Merv Griffin Show does exist however the public/fans will probably never see it in it's entirety.
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It was interesting to look at their list of Carpenters videos and find other "Buried Treasure" videos.
* 1972 and 1973 performances of "Top of the World" from their Bob Hope Special appearances.

*A 3 minutes sketch with Bob Hope from 1973.

*Interviews from their 1972 Australia and Japan tours.

*An unnamed interview from December 1970.


I was hoping to see the "lost" Johnny Carson performances from 1970 & 1971 on their list.
 
Rick-An Ordinary Fool said:
I have just emailed the Reelz cable channel to ask if they plan to air this show in the US on the Reelz cable channel in the future. I have provided them details that the show just aired in the UK and asked if they might air it any time soon. I will report back if they respond.

There email is: [email protected]
Click to expand...
Thank you. I have now emailed them.

As I have internet based TV, and not satellite, I also asked if there's a way to access Reelz via Roku or Internet. All I see listed on their website are U.S. satellite.
 
While there were some dubious moments in some of the factual details and interactions (I think it was Randy who wrote that the solo album meeting came across a little too Goodfellas for his tastes), plus some odd observations (they characterized Karen as looking "happy and fit" in the Beechwood video, when even at the time I thought she looked gaunt and excessively perky; and they made it sound like Karen's family was pushing her to get out from behind the drums, when I thought the push at least initially came from A&M and/or management), I felt that overall it rang true. Where it really hit the right notes was with the characterization of Karen herself, capturing her in all her complexity.

I applaud Adele Keating, the actress who portrayed Karen. For me, she is the first one to truly capture that unique spark Karen had, along with the melancholic aspect of Karen's nature that we in the public largely did not see, but could hear in Karen's voice. Adele even looks believable behind the drums, which I think is a first in all the portrayals I have seen of Karen. Adele bears a close enough physical resemblance to Karen that I am not distracted by the differences, and her eyes really look like Karen's. But it is her portrayal that is so effective: Karen's warmth, wit and energy are all there, along with her anger, sadness and insecurity. Bravo!
 
I've had no reply from Reelz. Perhaps when we move we will consider satellite TV. Used to waiting when it comes to Carpenters. :wink:
 
loved it! I believe Karen would respect the stories integrity however difficult. Still astonishingly gripping and sad. The ending is ALWAYS the same. poop.
 
Finally got to see the docudrama last night. Also loved it! The interview clips from the early years were
astounding! So cool to see something we diehards never knew existed.

The photos and video clips were well chosen, and helped tell the incredibly sad story of Karen in a consistently tasteful way. The actress portraying her did a great job. At times, she looked a LOT like her in the eyes.

Karen's personality, as we know, was very complex. Her sense of humor and upside of her personality aren't widely known, but the actual film clips helped bring that element of her persona to life in this presentation. Overall, it was an excellent effort, and it was obviously assembled with plenty of TLC.
 
And, I have finally viewed this Program.
Positives: The interviews with friends and, especially, Werner Wolfen. The Rare footage and photos a real treat.
Negatives: Again, too much 'creative licence', with its intended inaccuracies which accompany. (Some items are quite misleading).
Overall: Another piece of the puzzle is put into place.

Thanks for the Facebook reference with its Link to the program.
 
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