UK Carpenters night comin up June 3rd

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I never got an email response from reelz cable asking if they might be airing this special. I watched it on the link above however I'd still like to see it on the big screen. I think the actress did a very good job of playing Karen, I really think she most looked like her in the eyes in certain scenes and some mannerisms.

Byline said it best "But it is her portrayal that is so effective: Karen's warmth, wit and energy are all there, along with her anger, sadness and insecurity."

I really agree with that Byline.
I think the way they integrated the interview from friends and then Werner Wolfen made it appear all the more sincere and credible. I wasn't that crazy about the person who played Richard thought they could have got a better actor to portray him. I also don't believe the scene where Karen plays back her solo album with all of A&M and Richard really took place like that, it reminded me of a gangster mob scene, totally off base I believe.

There was another scene I was also a bit disturbed about was when the marriage had failed and Richard came upstairs Karen was on the bed alone in her room and Richard asked what they were fighting about and she said, It's like being ---- I didn't get that word, did she say conned in the marriage? It's the worse thing in the world. Then she said I'm disgusting (at least that is what I think Adele said) I couldn't tell if the writers of the movie were trying to say Karen was disgusted at herself because of the marriage not working and she blamed herself or were they referring to her eating disorder Karen could not control. I don't know.

I think the scene when she was on the Bruce show was pretty good, nice how they had her dressed almost exactly in the same outfit, although her hair was the only thing wrong, they had it all pushed back and flat, I guess the director and hair and makeup crew did not view the real live footage tape from the Bruce Forsyth show because Karen had fluffy curled hair that looked way better than the way they had Adele look in that scene. It's weird because Adele had the right hair and they could have made it look exactly like Karen's but the hair stylist on the set did it wrong for that scene. Just some minor stuff but if your going to go to such great lengths to have the clothing match up why not the hair too?

I always get the same feelings after watching these docu's that when I see Karen on videos and in interviews, she does not come across as someone who had such a low self worth about herself, that is the hardest part for me to accept.
I hope reelz will show it one day on the big screen.
 
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There was another scene I was also a bit disturbed about was when the marriage had failed and Richard came upstairs Karen was on the bed alone in her room and Richard asked what they were fighting about and she said, It's like being ---- I didn't get that word, did she say conned in the marriage? It's the worse thing in the world. Then she said I'm disgusting (at least that is what I think Adele said) I couldn't tell if the writers of the movie were trying to say Karen was disgusted at herself because of the marriage not working and she blamed herself or were they referring to her eating disorder Karen could not control. I don't know.
She said "It's like being haunted, it's the worst thing in the world. I'm disgusting. I am. I'm disgusting." I'm positive she's talking about the eating disorder, and that she blames herself for the breakup - the ED made her so disgusting, that Tom couldn't live with her anymore.
 
I also don't believe the scene where Karen plays back her solo album with all of A&M and Richard really took place like that, it reminded me of a gangster mob scene, totally off base I believe.

I wasn't crazy on that scene either but I think what they were trying to portray was that Karen was pressured into giving up the album by the powers that be, as if to say that the shadow of Richard and the A&M brass loomed much bigger than just Karen alone.

I'm so glad to read the positive reviews that continue to come in - I do think it was exceptionally well done and featured a really nice cross-section from Karen's friends and work colleagues.
 
So grateful this documentary film was made; many thanks to all involved. Along with what others have said about certain scenes, observations, etc., I noticed:
  • I’d always read that Tom and Karen met at a party her mother urged her to attend (not set up on a blind, double-date). Huh. I probably need to re-read the bios.
  • The 1972 interview where Karen is walking in late and answers the question about going solo – she looked so frazzled, there: they both did. I wonder if it was immediately after a show?
  • I, too, found Werner Wolfen’s comments to be surprisingly candid compared to earlier interviews he’s done. He seems to really care about Karen (and Richard).
  • While I concur there was a significant “bada-boom, bada-bing” vibe in the scene depicting the solo album rejection, I’m guessing it captured the emotional impact the conversation had on Karen. What a mistake to not release that album in 1980.
A heartbreaking loss. The film underscores this sad reality very well.
 
I wasn't crazy on that scene either but I think what they were trying to portray was that Karen was pressured into giving up the album by the powers that be, as if to say that the shadow of Richard and the A&M brass loomed much bigger than just Karen alone.

I'm so glad to read the positive reviews that continue to come in - I do think it was exceptionally well done and featured a really nice cross-section from Karen's friends and work colleagues.

I think you're right - the 'hustling' was obviously the scriptwriter's attempt to demonstrate that Karen was pressured to shelve the album, although it doesn't quite translate without slipping into parody. Ironically, based on what Phil Ramone has said, the portrayal of Richard, Herb and Jerry's reaction to the playback in the documentary was considerably less harsh than the reaction they gave in real life...
 
It left me numb as Randy's book did. However, Randy's imagery was more picturesque in comparison.

After watching this I again had to do an assessment of my own life in relation to my family so that I can learn to be even more aware of my surroundings and situations and life relations. It is all hard to fathom yet all families have their ups and downs. I think it is brave of Richard to even open up as he did in the '80's when questions first began. It almost gives us a second chance to examine our own pathology into our own understanding and how we relate to our families. It is such a heartbreaking reality of life and it's imperfections. The shows reprieve dances around the shared love of family and friends. I don't remember reading before about Karen relating to the drums as intimately during the Phil Ramone sessions as was pictured in the documentary. These are just some thoughts as I sit numb after watching this tv special.
 
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I thought there was something written in Randy's book about Karen at the drums and saying to Phil I guess I won't be playing these anymore or something like that. It never made sense to me because she was the artist and she should be allowed to play or sing or both like she did earlier in their career. She could have easily played drums on any of her solo tracks in the studio, why she didn't enforce that is all a mystery. The desire had to be there, she was an amazing drummer.
 
Nothing regarding the utilization throughout "Carpenters" career (or, lack of it),
of Karen's innate drumming acumen, makes sense to me.
Unless I am mistaken, the final 1980 Television Special featured none of her drumming, as seen on earlier telecasts.
And, the relative scarcity of her session drumming for the records is even more baffling. (At least, to me it is.)
Now, in regards the solo project, I would be surprised if her stamina and strength supported drumming.
And, yet, I could be wrong ! The Olivia special and the Herb Alpert 20/20 episode show definite strength in Karen.
So, as usual, I am left asking questions , hoping for answers that will never be available in my lifetime.
(Strangely enough, if Richard is under the influence of medication during (any of) his Piano performances, I am unable
to detect any lack of his keyboard skill throughout the entire Carpenters' career.
Recall,too, he insisted on remaining on
keyboards for Close To You, while replacing Karen with Hal on drums.
And, his admonition regarding his needing to use the
'click' track to keep proper time on the song....well, that is telling?
Richard Carpenter:
"Hal Blaine and I tended to rush, and that arrangement had to be deliberate.
After the first few takes, and with the problem we were having of it getting away from us,
we bit the bullet and used a "click track" . Even at that, to get it just the way I wanted it , took 47 takes."
 
Unless I am mistaken, the final 1980 Television Special featured none of her drumming, as seen on earlier telecasts.

Well, there is this... :wink:



And, the relative scarcity of her session drumming for the records is even more baffling. (At least, to me it is.)
Now, in regards the solo project, I would be surprised if her stamina and strength supported drumming.
And, yet, I could be wrong ! The Olivia special and the Herb Alpert 20/20 episode show definite strength in Karen.
So, as usual, I am left asking questions , hoping for answers that will never be available in my lifetime.

If Karen wasn't up to drumming by 1980 due to lack of energy, you'd never know listening to the tracks from Music, Music, Music because Karen is in great form! Her technique is as great as ever and while the drum tracks don't have the weight and punch of the likes of Hal Blaine, they're perfectly fine for the lovely material that featured in the special.
 
You are right Rick. I remember that reference now that you mention it! And, all of you are correct about the questions left, and unfortunately we will never know. There was the usual drumming skit on Music Music Music. Maybe it was just a time factor that limited her playing for I thought I read in here that it was Karen who taught Cubby O Brien all the songs for concert performance. Richard did not front the group like Karen did, and her part fronting the group was most important and held the most pressure. On the Bruce Forsyth Show she looked energetic and interractive to me as if she was doing it for Richard to keep the group going as he did while visiting countries when Karen was hospitalized in 1975 for "exaustion". I can't imagine the pressure she carried with her. The TV program did say that they worked as one. Even separately, they seemed to walk as one with regard to the best for all, or at least it seemed from publicity and from what we have read from those that knew them.
 
Ah....thanks for that reminder from that 1980 Special, Newvillefan !
(And, here I have a Fan Club 8X10 from that 1980 Special with Karen sitting at her drum-kit ! ).
I had tried to locate that part in the Special (Karen's drumming) but was unable to find it before I posted !
I didn't go far enough into the Show....so here it is --Karen's drumming--at 3:05 forward.
I do wonder exactly the dates that Karen would have recorded her drum sequence--that is, in A&M studios
before actually filming that drum sequence for television. Were they the same sessions as when the vocals were laid down ?
If so.....I do stand corrected....plenty of stamina to be had !
 
I do wonder exactly the dates that Karen would have recorded her drum sequence--that is, in A&M studios
before actually filming that drum sequence for television. Were they the same sessions as when the vocals were laid down ?
If so.....I do stand corrected....plenty of stamina to be had !

The songs would have been tracked before Karen added her vocals. We know they were laying down vocals for the special in early March ("On Sunday, March 2, 1980, her 30th birthday, Karen recorded her selections in Studio D, A&M Studios"...in reference to the Karen/Ella Medley) so the basic instrumental tracks were probably recorded during February 1980. Amazingly, just a week or two after Karen had finished recording for her solo album.
 
Finally had the opportunity to see this program. Any way you look at it, so so sad.

Sometimes I tell myself "That's it. I'm not reading or watching anything sad about Karen again. I'll just listen." Know what I mean? But her story is so tragic, it's irresistible in a way.
 
Thanks everyone for all the comments about the film. As writer/director it's been really interesting reading the positives and the negatives. Re an earlier post, I did ask permission from rights owner to release the merv griffin footage (not seen before) to you guys .... but the company insisted that I didn't. Which is really tedious cos we paid a lot of money for the rights and I thought he might just do me a favour on your behalf. So apologies, I can't release it to you.

I'm glad the drama has (mostly) played well. Some things were not perfect I know but mostly it was time and money. We only had 7 days shooting, one day to rehearse and a real skeleton crew compared to the movies. I too was bugged by Karen's hair not being right on Bruce Forsythe but we were so rushed that day that I did not have time to send Adele back into hair and nake up. I'm also bugged that I didn't get Karen's accent quite right. Adele Keating is actually English, in fact from the north of England,and she worked hard on the voice. But if I had had time to pull out more samples I think we would have picked up the East Coast tones which stayed with Karen even years after she'd lived in LA. My mistake again. Adele could def have done it if I'd given her more samples to work on. Again... so rushed for time on the schedule. But anyway...I too thought she was brilliant. One big national paper in the UK printed Adele's picture and thought it was the real Karen!

Though I did invent dialogue, I tried really hard to suggest the spirit of what was happening at the time as well as incorporate genuinely real quotes. Even though sometimes it looks just made up. If you go back into the books and a lot of old documentaries - as I did - you can collect an awful lot of quotes. eg: Karen's "It's like being haunted...it's the worst feeling in the world" was a line she apparently actually DID say (though admittedly not to Richard) Also Karen drumming in the studio and being discovered early in the morning before the rest of the band showed up DID happen. Ramone told the story on a BBC radio documentary a few years back. The so called "Goodfellas" scene (made me laugh that) Yeah a bit of creativity there. I kind of let go there a bit but as someone said, the whole point was to reflect that Karen was almost certainly pushed into shelving the album.

The other really painful thing was that we had to shoot it all in London, though I would have killed to fly the actors out to LA (or NYC) for some exteriors. Would have loved to have Karen and Richard driving on Sunset etc. (I loved the Karen driving scene that Scorsese built into ep two of his "Vinyl" series recently)

I agree that Werner was more candid than expected. When I visited him he was quite simply one of the nicest guys I ever met. He showed me a needlepoint cushion that Karen made and gave to him . The cushion is in classic 1970s orange and brown and has the letters TINSTAAFL (...no such thing as a free lunch) on it. I took a picture of him holding it which is a great memory. And BOY did I wish he would give it to me but I knew he wouldn't. He really REALLY misses her still. And when you hold that cushion as I did, it feels like you're with Karen in the room.

Interestingly the same day I interviewed him Jerry and Herb were lined up to talk to me on camera but they cancelled a couple of weeks before I got to LA...which was a shame. I would have loved to have met them. I came close to one or two others but they too didn't happen. I met Frenda in Beverley Hills and we spent a couple of hours talking off camera. But she politely declined an on screen interview... which I can tell you would have been total dynamite.

But I suppose more than anything I would have liked to have interviewed Karen. Her voice was one of the soundtracks to my early life growing up in a one horse northern English town.

Thanks again for all your comments.
 
Thanks everyone for all the comments about the film. As writer/director it's been really interesting reading the positives and the negatives. Re an earlier post, I did ask permission from rights owner to release the merv griffin footage (not seen before) to you guys .... but the company insisted that I didn't. Which is really tedious cos we paid a lot of money for the rights and I thought he might just do me a favour on your behalf. So apologies, I can't release it to you.

I'm glad the drama has (mostly) played well. Some things were not perfect I know but mostly it was time and money. We only had 7 days shooting, one day to rehearse and a real skeleton crew compared to the movies. I too was bugged by Karen's hair not being right on Bruce Forsythe but we were so rushed that day that I did not have time to send Adele back into hair and nake up. I'm also bugged that I didn't get Karen's accent quite right. Adele Keating is actually English, in fact from the north of England,and she worked hard on the voice. But if I had had time to pull out more samples I think we would have picked up the East Coast tones which stayed with Karen even years after she'd lived in LA. My mistake again. Adele could def have done it if I'd given her more samples to work on. Again... so rushed for time on the schedule. But anyway...I too thought she was brilliant. One big national paper in the UK printed Adele's picture and thought it was the real Karen!

Though I did invent dialogue, I tried really hard to suggest the spirit of what was happening at the time as well as incorporate genuinely real quotes. Even though sometimes it looks just made up. If you go back into the books and a lot of old documentaries - as I did - you can collect an awful lot of quotes. eg: Karen's "It's like being haunted...it's the worst feeling in the world" was a line she apparently actually DID say (though admittedly not to Richard) Also Karen drumming in the studio and being discovered early in the morning before the rest of the band showed up DID happen. Ramone told the story on a BBC radio documentary a few years back. The so called "Goodfellas" scene (made me laugh that) Yeah a bit of creativity there. I kind of let go there a bit but as someone said, the whole point was to reflect that Karen was almost certainly pushed into shelving the album.

The other really painful thing was that we had to shoot it all in London, though I would have killed to fly the actors out to LA (or NYC) for some exteriors. Would have loved to have Karen and Richard driving on Sunset etc. (I loved the Karen driving scene that Scorsese built into ep two of his "Vinyl" series recently)

I agree that Werner was more candid than expected. When I visited him he was quite simply one of the nicest guys I ever met. He showed me a needlepoint cushion that Karen made and gave to him . The cushion is in classic 1970s orange and brown and has the letters TINSTAAFL (...no such thing as a free lunch) on it. I took a picture of him holding it which is a great memory. And BOY did I wish he would give it to me but I knew he wouldn't. He really REALLY misses her still. And when you hold that cushion as I did, it feels like you're with Karen in the room.

Interestingly the same day I interviewed him Jerry and Herb were lined up to talk to me on camera but they cancelled a couple of weeks before I got to LA...which was a shame. I would have loved to have met them. I came close to one or two others but they too didn't happen. I met Frenda in Beverley Hills and we spent a couple of hours talking off camera. But she politely declined an on screen interview... which I can tell you would have been total dynamite.

But I suppose more than anything I would have liked to have interviewed Karen. Her voice was one of the soundtracks to my early life growing up in a one horse northern English town.

Thanks again for all your comments.

This was a very insightful read and it's so good to hear your feedback. It's a shame that Frenda has never given an on-screen interview, I think I want to hear from her more than anybody!

I've watched the docudrama about 4 or 5 more times since it aired and it's still gripping stuff to watch. I particularly love the fact it opened in New York in 1982, much the same way as the Coleman book did. It's such a shame we will never get to see the Merv Griffin remaining unseen footage but hey ho, that's life. Thank you for trying for us though!
 
We only had 7 days shooting, one day to rehearse and a real skeleton crew compared to the movies.

WOW! You did all this in a week? That's amazing!

Added to the time constraints I'm sure that budgets were limited as well, so you did even better than I've said before :)
 
Unless I missed it in a previous post, the one thing that has not been explained is how Karen was able to get her hands on a huge amount of laxatives without being recognised, and in the matter of Richard's addiction, how was he able to consume a prescribed drug without the knowledge of someone in the medical profession. Both Richard and Karen appear to have slipped under the radar, and to the detriment of their brilliant musical capabilities.
 
Well, there is this... :wink:





If Karen wasn't up to drumming by 1980 due to lack of energy, you'd never know listening to the tracks from Music, Music, Music because Karen is in great form! Her technique is as great as ever and while the drum tracks don't have the weight and punch of the likes of Hal Blaine, they're perfectly fine for the lovely material that featured in the special.
 
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