VOLUME 2, WARM and THE BRASS ARE COMIN' on iTunes!

[RichardWarner]

There's a cousin to this debate. A leading Wall Street analyst today was in the news, linking Wal-Mart's unveiling of its onoine music store to the slow decline of the DVD.

No stoppin' it, folks. Our grandparents lamented the demise of the Victrola.

 

[Greg Shannon]

What is this fictional "good needle drop" version of Warm that we are comparing to the iTunes release? My vinyl copy of Warm is over 30 years old, and I've listened to it for all that time--and it sounds like you'd expect it to after 30-plus years. I am listening to the iTunes version I just downloaded and, except for the opening hiss on The Sea is My Soul [sic!!], it sure sounds a lot better than my old album. How many of the people on this forum have a "good needle drop" version of the album? The download costs nine bucks. Download it and enjoy!

Cheers,

Greg Shannon

 

[bob]

hello people, I heard the news about volume 2,warm and the brass are comin on itunes. help me, I downloaded itunes and it came up 360 share pro. I typed in herb alpert & the tijuana brass, and all the songs that were availible came up, then I type in volume 2 in the title of album, all the songs came up again. I just wanted volume 2. what am I doing wrong?
bob

 

[Mike Blakesley]

fictional "good needle drop" version

No fiction. The needle drop version I was referring to was made from a brand new copy of the album combined with the CD versions of the tracks that have been released on CD (Without Her, Zazueira). What few defects there were, I cleaned up using Sonic Foundry's "Noise Reduction 2" software.

Rudy has a German Deutsche Grammophon (sp?) pressing which supposedly sounds even better! I have not heard that one.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Bob - Look at any song title that's featured on VOLUME 2. Across the screen to the right you'll see the album title. Just to the right of that you'll see a small "arrow." Click on that arrow and it will take you to a page featuring the album. From there you can buy the whole album, or you can buy individual songs.

It might help if you sort each column (artist, song title, album title, popularity etc) by clicking on the column heading. And, if what you want doesn't seem to be appearing, try searching for a song title. Then click on the arrow after the album title to go to the album.

 

[thetijuanataxi]

I have 2 sealed LP copies of WARM and sealed copies can be found frquently on eBay for $5 to $10. A CDR from a new LP copy would probably have higher fidelity than a compressed, sterile digital download. Just because the recording is clean and noise free doesn't mean it's high fidelity. Incidently, I'm not advocating needle drop copies of WARM, I'm merely stating that for a diehard lifelong fan, iTunes downloads are in every way compromised from the experience of a reissue. My heart was pounding like crazy the street date of the first 3 reissues in 2005. I felt like a kid again as I opened the digipack and popped each disc onto my cd player. The improvements in fidelity over previous discs I had was noticeable on my stereo system. I feel no excitement at the news of these downloads. Instead of feeling like a kid again, I'm starting to realize how old I'm getting and how long we've all waited for an experience like the one in Feb, April, June, Aug. and Oct. 2005 with THESE albums. I know that if they get passed up this time around, they won't likely be reissued again in my lifetime. And I will not buy downloads of any artist. I didn't spend the kind of money I did on my equipment to sully it with FM radio quality downloads. Well I'm gonna stop before Rudy throws something at me, but that's how I feel. And I hope enough people feel that way so that not only these CD's will get released, but so that this doesn't become the norm.

David

 

[Greg Shannon]

My point, though, which you in fact help me make, is that we don't all have access to these exceptionally clean vinyl versions of Warm. Some of us have old, scratchy copies that we've listened to forever, and some of us don't have any version of Warm at all. The iTunes version is a lot better than these.

Cheers,

Greg Shannon

 

[Murray]

Well, I just installed iTunes this evening, and much to my disappointment, it seems that these three albums are NOT available to Canadians. In fact, not a single title in the Signature Series is! The only thing by Herb Alpert that is in the Canadian iTunes store is Rewhipped (and not even the whole album - two tracks are missing!)

Now I wonder if I'll ever hear WARM... I guess it's time to start looking for a decent-condition LP on eBay.

 

[thetijuanataxi]

Gee, I guess after all is considered, nothing matches the CONVENIENCE of just ordering a CD reissue from Amazon.com, (Through the Corner, of course ). Especially for the out-of-towners............


David

 

[Harry]

Actually, the WARM vinyl that Mike and I rigged for CD came from a thrift store. Every year, a local fire company has a little fair that has rides, games of chance, pizza, etc., and there's this little thrift store on the grounds. Sometime back in the '80s, I wandered in there and found a near complete set of Herb Alpert/Tijuana Brass albums that looked to be in nice shape for $1 each. I bought them with the idea of upgrading from my well-worn copies and to use them for making clean-sounding cassettes for the car.

Each one of them turned out to be near-pristine in sound - a real bargain. I think the only ones missing were S.R.O. and THE BRASS ARE COMIN'.

WARM then became the very first album I needle-dropped when I got a CD recorder back around 1998. Blank discs were about $8 a piece, and I opted to do both WARM and THE BRASS ARE COMIN' on one disc to save on costs. As a "bonus", I also tacked on a mono version of "Without Her" from a mono-for-AM-radio version of SOLID BRASS, and the mono single version of "To Wait For Love" which has a different Herb lead vocal and fades out later than the album version.

Mike then offered to use his Sound Forge software to clean up any clicks and pops that were there, and the resulting disc was just astounding. I swore that no "professional" version of WARM could ever beat it.

But actually this iTunes version doesn't do a half-bad job. The remastering of the tracks can be heard, and some sound like they have more presence than the old LP mastering did. Yeah, there's some disappointing noise and distortion on that first track, but it sounds just like noise and distortion we've heard on other Signature Series discs that appears to result from aging master tapes. Frankly, I'm impressed that the iTunes version sounds as good as it does.

Harry

 

[lswilson99]

And what you have is a compressed CDR, a home made label, a blank jewel case and probably inferior sound quality to a good needle drop. Is THAT what we campaigned all this time for in this and Wendell's forum. Paying for something we could already do potentially better for free? It's no wonder they didn't release these titles as CDs. Enough people here seem to be satisfied with do it yourself CD kits. Am I alone here, or does anyone see how unacceptable this is? Not only for these releases but for music in general. Convenience CAN"T be worth giving up all the art, personal touch and spirit that goes in to legitimate CD and LP releases? If this is the future of the music industry than I feel very sad. Even sadder that there is apparently little resistance to it.

David

David,

I fully support everything you say here.

Len

 

[NYCDguy]

David and Len, let me jump in as well and say that I totally agree with the both of you. And may I add this:

The music collector is being forgotten, both in the case of these three albums and by suits who run the music biz in general. You COLLECT CDs and LPs. You don't collect downloads -- they just accumulate in your hard drive. You can't look at a download. You can't open up the packaging, you can't file it in some arcane system on your shelf, you can't read it. One day, maybe music as a tangible, physical product will be an antiquated notion. Maybe it already is. But to so many of us, buying music is buying an object, not buying access to a file. And a compressed-sounding file at that.

Tony

 

[Harry]

If I might add to what's being said here, I too would rather that these had been released on tangible CDs. They weren't. That's the bottom line. At this point, they are not available on CD.

OK, so what are the choices? One can accept the situation, bite the bullet, go to iTunes, download the albums, and join the party. Or one can sit back and complain that it's not fair, it's not good, and it's not acceptable. Or one can go back to one's LPs, cassettes, 8-tracks, and/or home-made CDs from any or all of the above.

Frankly I'm impressed and surprised at the sound quality of these. I know in my mind and my heart of hearts that these are compressed files that theoretically shouldn't sound as good as a CD or LP. But guess what - to my ears they DO sound surprisingly good.

I was among the naysayers at first, as I've always disliked anything that came from Apple Computing. But to join the party, I had to play the game. I can't imagine using iTunes for anything else. I certainly won't use it if I don't HAVE to. But for these, for now, I did, and I don't regret it for a minute.

I've got three CDs made from all three of the new albums. It comes with artwork to stick into the jewel case, and the discs play anywhere I want them to, and they sound good to boot. All for $30, plus the minimal cost of jewel cases, blank CDs, ink and paper.

No, they're not real pretty to look at, they don't have any liner notes or pictures to view, but then again, VOLUME 2 and WARM didn't come with any real liner notes either, and the gatefold of BRASS ARE COMIN' was basically a tribute to the TV show. But they do have the HERB ALPERT SIGNATURE SERIES designation included in the artwork, and the track lists are big and easy to read.

Harry
...looking for the positives in life and online...

 

[bob]

mike thanks for the info. the screen your talking about is the 360 pro screen right?. becasue on the left where you type in artist name I typed in herb alpert, then the album title volume2. then I only see a few names of the songs from the lp. like mexican corn. but when I download that song a clinton speech comes up and when I click on to buy it. volume 2
it took me to another screen to download the songs like napster, fye download and walmart. but I did not seen to download warm. volume 2
or brass are coming. again what am I doing wrong?
bob

 

[spanky1]

....snipped.....

No stoppin' it, folks. Our grandparents lamented the demise of the Victrola.

Huge difference. They didn't compromise sound quality for convenience. If downloads were sonically superior to cds, I'd accept this argument. Fact is, Itunes and computers are where things are being steered.

I will compromise on insignificant areas such as digipaks over jewel cases, but I refuse to bend on paying to download a song to computer so that I can make my own homemade cd.

 

[Murray]

OK, so what are the choices? One can accept the situation, bite the bullet, go to iTunes, download the albums, and join the party. Or one can sit back and complain that it's not fair, it's not good, and it's not acceptable.

That's all well and good if you happen to live in the USA. The rest of us don't have the option of downloading the albums, so I think we have a right to complain.

At least installing iTunes wasn't a total loss for me. I was able to download the Corrs "Goodbye" EP that is unfairly denied to fans in the USA.

 

[ormandy]

But to so many of us, buying music is buying an object, not buying access to a file.
And a compressed-sounding file at that.

Agreed!

I also want to spend LESS TIME at the computer.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Bob - you lost me. I don't know what "360 pro" screen is. Are you sure you're in iTunes? On my screen, the search box is in the upper right.

Maybe I'm missing something, but you should be able to type in any song title from the album you're looking for (or the album title, but Volume 2 is such a common title that the song title is probably easier in this case) and there should be nothing to do with Wal Mart, Clinton, Napster or anything else.

Keep in mind, you have to be using either a Mac or a Windows computer to use iTunes. If you're in Linux or Unix, it won't work.

 

[PartyRico]

Greetings to A&Mers on the World-Wide-Web. Where the hell is Global Warming when you need it??? It's 15 degrees F. here in New Jersey on the Right Coast.
I'd like to say I'm enjoying this discussion. We should not forget that Herb owes us nothing and has already given us a chunk of his life, along with blood,sweat, and tears. I too am grateful for all the wonderful re-issues already available. Kudos to Herb and Shout!
I am also happy to have lived long enough to have enjoyed Herb's music in lp format (Vinyl), 45 r.p.m., am and fm radio, tv (lo def), open reel format, cassette, 8-track, cd, dvd, live at the Supper Club in NYC, and now in that hybrid format that I find to be retro/futuristic at the same time: I-Tunes. Guess what? Herb and Lani sound awesome no matter what format is used.
Personally I would LOVE to see the rest of his catalog re-issued in the CD format. But if that does not occur, I shall recur to the I-Tunes downloads, as "an imperfect something is better than a perfect nothing." Thanks to Mr. Alpert and Shout! for keeping the good vibes alive! PS: I still have hopes that those CD re-issues will see the light of day. "Ya gotta believe amigos"!

 

[Harry]

That's all well and good if you happen to live in the USA. The rest of us don't have the option of downloading the albums, so I think we have a right to complain.

At least installing iTunes wasn't a total loss for me. I was able to download the Corrs "Goodbye" EP that is unfairly denied to fans in the USA.

Murray, life is often unfair, but it is what it is. I'd like to get that Corrs EP, but I can't. It's not licensed for download to US members, as you mentioned. I'm not happy about it, but it is what it is. Somewhere down the road, that un-issued track will show up somewhere and I will get it. Or, I'll be denied it for the rest of my life and die having not heard it. In the grand scheme of things, it's just not that important.

These Alpert issues will either be licensed elsewhere or not. That depends on a lot of different factors. Licenses for the CDs were given to companies in both Japan and the UK. Similar arrangements MIGHT be made with the downloads. Until then, there's not a whole lot one can do about it - perhaps sending emails to companies that have been involved in the past.

Harry

 

[Harry]

Bob - you lost me. I don't know what "360 pro" screen is. Are you sure you're in iTunes? On my screen, the search box is in the upper right.

Maybe I'm missing something, but you should be able to type in any song title from the album you're looking for (or the album title, but Volume 2 is such a common title that the song title is probably easier in this case) and there should be nothing to do with Wal Mart, Clinton, Napster or anything else.

Keep in mind, you have to be using either a Mac or a Windows computer to use iTunes. If you're in Linux or Unix, it won't work.

I went to itunes.com, clicked on "Store" and typed in "Herb Alpert" in the search box with "Artist" as the descriptor. That brought up 12 little pictures of the titles available, and I clicked one, then I clicked on "Listen in iTunes", which brought up the main screen for that album and a "Buy the album" box. Clicking that box, after a few warnings, sent the 11 or 12 songs to my iTunes software, which I'd already downloaded.

For THE BRASS ARE COMIN', I had to type "Tijuana Brass" in the search box as "Herb Alpert" didn't find it.

Harry

 

[RichardWarner]

For what it's worth, my reviews of "Warm" and "Brass are Comin'" have been posted to iTunes. You can review 'em, too...it just takes some time before Apple gets around to posting your comments.

 

[Leif Henriksen]

Dear A&M'ers.

If we don't download the music from itunes, they can't sell it. That means that we have the power ant they have to bring it to CD's. By the way - who sayt it wont go to CD's anyway??

Leif from Copenhagen Denmark

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Leif: It's a double-edged sword. If there aren't sufficient downloads, Shout! Factory and Herb may interpret that as a lack of interest in the titles and take that as evidence that a more costly physical release of CDs would have been a bad business decision.

However, if all we do is smile, say "Thank you" and go download, that sends the message that we're perfectly okay with the three albums being available strictly in a lossy digital format without packaging...and that will be cited as precedent in future decisions about whether to take a project into stores as a CD or to do a digital-only release.

While I agree with Rudy that tantrums are counter-productive, I hope that GoldWax (who I assume is with Shout! Factory) and any others involved in the Alpert project (including, hopefully, Herb himself) will read and carefully consider the points I've made.

If Verve (which has done iTunes only releases for Walter Wanderley's A&M/CTi albums and Quincy Jones' Smackwater Jack) can do a CD reissue of Sergio's Crystal Illusions and Ye-Me-Le (both of which were underperforming LPs in 1969), surely Shout! Factory can do the same for Warm, The Brass Are Comin'...and Volume II.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[Leif Henriksen]

Michael: But they might as well interpret that it is the downloading and not the titles that gives problems, because they already knows how much the other CD's have been selling so far.
At the same time, if we accept the downloading format, we also eccept lossy digital format in stead of sending the signal that we want a better sound.

Leif