Winds Of Barcelona/El Presidente

[Harry]

The Sol Lake tune "Winds Of Barcelona" got two different treatments from Herb and the Brass. The initial tune appeared on Volume 2, while the retitled, and more majestic, "El Presidente" was featured on South Of The Border.

Which do you prefer?

Harry
...trying to start something "on-topic", online...

 

[Rudy]

I don't have a preference--I've always liked the song in either configuration. In fact, at the time of "Rise", he was even remotely considering finding another way of doing the song. WIthouth looking, isn't this one of Sol Lake's songs?

-= N =-
...up from a nap, and still exhausted...

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Was there any reason for the two versions being so close together? I've always wondered if "El Presidente" was a tribute to JFK...it certainly wouldn't be the last time that Herb would find a "new" treatment for a song he'd already recorded. And, I would like more info on that live version...



Dan

 

[Mr Bill]

I've always wondered if "El Presidente" was a tribute to JFK...

In the old forum someone said that that was exactly why Herb did it. I can't recall who it was that pointed it out (maybe Steve Sidoruk?) but I wonder why Herb, or Sol for that matter, didn't just come up with a new patriotic song.

--Mr Bill
who admits El Presidente is a swell tune for the purpose nonetheless...

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I guess maybe that the melody has some similarities with "Hail to the Chief", which becomes kind of a fanfare...the rest of the song is so lyrical, so haunting and yet soothing at the same time; that the whole thing is just a natural. It's a tribute and an escape to another world at the same time. Often overlooked, it's really one of the TJB's[and Herb's] most shining moments, an probably did as much as anything else from that period to help heal the nation's wounds....


Dan

 

[Harry]

And, I would like more info on that live version...

In their live concert appearances, Herb and the TJB would do the song more in the "Winds Of Barcelona" style, but with a different arrangement of the ending. If you've heard it, you'd remember it.

Harry
...getting ready for a grass-mowing session, online...

 

[Rudy]

...the rest of the song is so lyrical, so haunting and yet soothing at the same time; that the whole thing is just a natural.

This same thing applies to other Sol Lake compositions. Strip away the bullfight motif from "The Lonely Bull", and the original "Twinkle Star" melody has the same feel to it. Sol Lake is sometimes underappreciated as a composer--I know we've discussed the works of Pisano and Wechter here at length.

-= N =-

 

[Tom Wallace]

I agree that Sol Lake is a bit underappreciated...his stuff is all over the early Brass LPs, and I like that at least one of his tunes is included on every LP right up through "Summertime."

Some of my favorite Brass tunes are Sol's: the "Barcelona"/"Presidente" twins, "Salud, Amor Y Dinero," "More and More Amor," "Cantina Blue," "A Beautiful Friend." Just reeling those off the top of my head makes it pretty clear I prefer Sol's more minor-key, plaintive songs, but I enjoy them all.

Amusing pun with "Country Lake" on "The Brass Are Comin'." And speaking of puns, I wonder if the great Sol Lake was from Utah?

Tom

 

[Harry]

If I recall correctly, Sol's real name is Sol Lakoff, which reminds me of an old post wondering if the real name of the tune was "Country Lakoff."

Harry
...I fought the lawn and the lawn won, online...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I like the "El Presidente" version better. IMO, the TJB sound was stuck in neutral when the VOLUME 2 album was recorded....it wasn't until SOTB that Herb found the real TJB direction, plus the album just sounds better (improved recording techniques, maybe) to me...so I vote for "El Presidente." However, I do like both versions no matter what.

 

[Rudy]

plus the album just sounds better (improved recording techniques, maybe) to me...

I believe this was when Larry Levine brought his "wall of sound" to A&M. IOW, Herb and Jerry moved out of the garage into a real studio. (Was the original TJB just a garage band, then? Apparently!!)

-= N =-

 

[Harry]

I like the "El Presidente" version better. IMO, the TJB sound was stuck in neutral when the VOLUME 2 album was recorded....it wasn't until SOTB that Herb found the real TJB direction, plus the album just sounds better (improved recording techniques, maybe) to me...so I vote for "El Presidente." However, I do like both versions no matter what.

I heard the "El Presidente" version first, since Volume 2 was a later acquisition. The arrangement of "El Presidente" is just so majestic, and after hearing one exclusively for a few years, and then finally hearing the original "Winds Of Barcelona" as a more simplistic arrangement was almost a let-down. I too love all versions of the song, but voted for "El Presidente."

Harry

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I've always wondered if "El Presidente" was a tribute to JFK...

In the old forum someone said that that was exactly why Herb did it. I can't recall who it was that pointed it out

That theory came from Wendoofus, which means that it isn't necessarily a fact.


Capt. Bacardi
...who doesn't believe everything I hear online...

 

[Rudy]

I'd grown up with all the TJB albums in heavy rotation, so I never did prefer one over the other. I've always had a spot for Volume 2, although it's sometimes considered the runt of the litter...

-= N =-

 

[Captain Bacardi]

The Sol Lake tune "Winds Of Barcelona" got two different treatments from Herb and the Brass. The initial tune appeared on Volume 2, while the retitled, and more majestic, "El Presidente" was featured on South Of The Border.

It should be noted that the two recordings were done in different keys. The Volume 2 version - as well as the live version - is done in Db. The South Of The Border version is in D.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Rudy]

Funny...I thought the Volume 2 version was in C#, not Db. I don't know how many other listeners feel this way, but I think the key of the song sets a certain mood, beyond tempo and major/minor.

-= N =-

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Funny...I thought the Volume 2 version was in C#, not Db.

Damn sax players, always playing with sharps! It's like those guitar players - if it ain't in G, D, E, or A they have problems with it. If you call a song in the key of Bb, they look at you funny.

I don't know how many other listeners feel this way, but I think the key of the song sets a certain mood, beyond tempo and major/minor.

I agree. I've been in bands where we'll try a song, and it just doesn't feel right in a certain key, and you try a different one and it just seems to work.


Capt. Bacardi
NP: Brasil '66 - Live at Expo '70

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Only an octopus could play a guitar in Bb....unless ou can "make the bar", and only a guy[or gal] with Michael Jordan-sized fingers can do that for a long period of time ...


Dan, frustrated Pillsbury Doughboy- fingered dude

NP PINK FLOYD: ALBATROSS

 

[bob knack]

Just like me to get here late after it's all been said, but for me, it's a slam dunk, I loved that "live" version. I think I heard it in concert and on one of the specials, which I haven't seen since their original air. It was at a faster tempo and no "fade" ending. Arrangers should get paid only for a whole song. Fade endings always cheat the listener, except for "A Banda" where maybe the effect was the band just marching away. Harry James once had a tune called "Get Off the Stand" where one by one, the horn sections walked out of the studio leaving the rhythm section to finish. Well, I'll come back again when I have something that someone might want to read!
By the way, visit our big band web site at :

http://www.geocities.com/bigbandbrowsers

I hope there's no charge for the plug!

 

[Rudy]

Bob: cool radio program! Wish Detroit had something like that!

We don't charge much for plugging other sites, other than the cost of being flogged by an old, wet Kenny G. LP.

-= N =-

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Just like me to get here late after it's all been said, but for me, it's a slam dunk, I loved that "live" version. I think I heard it in concert and on one of the specials, which I haven't seen since their original air. It was at a faster tempo and no "fade" ending. Arrangers should get paid only for a whole song. Fade endings always cheat the listener, except for "A Banda" where maybe the effect was the band just marching away. Harry James once had a tune called "Get Off the Stand" where one by one, the horn sections walked out of the studio leaving the rhythm section to finish. Well, I'll come back again when I have something that someone might want to read!
By the way, visit our big band web site at :

http://www.geocities.com/bigbandbrowsers

I hope there's no charge for the plug!

It would be kinda difficult to fade out onstage live....I agree that the fadeout has been heroically overused down through the years, though. One thing I like about Rodney Crowell is that most of his music DOESN'T fade out. I didn't really notice that until his KEYS TO THE HIGHWAY album.


Dan

 

[bob knack]

It would be kinda difficult to fade out onstage live....

Actually, Herb used to fade out on his 'live version' of "What Now My Love" and others. All I'm saying is if you were in "arrangers class" and turned in a chart without an ending, wouldn't you get an incomplete? Now, Don Ellis, there's a guy who put endings on his songs...sometimes several.

By the way, I think Kenny G albums are now considered weapons of musical mass destruction. Let's air lift 'em all and drop them on Saddam!

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Actually, Herb used to fade out on his 'live version' of "What Now My Love" and others.

He also did a bit of a fade on "This Guy...". I saw Chuck Mangione several times and he always did a fade on "Doin' Everything With You". On the flip side, I saw Miles Davis a couple of times and he would just stop a song and begin another. I remember an interview he did where he basically said that by the time a song is ending people already know the song, so why come up with some geeky ending? That's Miles!

Now, Don Ellis, there's a guy who put endings on his songs...sometimes several.

But never in 4/4.

By the way, I think Kenny G albums are now considered weapons of musical mass destruction. Let's air lift 'em all and drop them on Saddam!

And put them in every cave complex in Afghanistan and drive out bin Laden while we're at it.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Rudy]

On the flip side, I saw Miles Davis a couple of times and he would just stop a song and begin another. I remember an interview he did where he basically said that by the time a song is ending people already know the song, so why come up with some geeky ending? That's Miles!

This reminds me of an extremely bizarre act I saw at the Montreux/Detroit Jazz Festival in the mid 80's. A local guy, who I think was Roy Brooks, with his groups Musical Truth and/or the Aboriginal Percussion Choir (that's flaky enough!), had a strange setup. He had his drum set mic'ed through a cheap Peavey guitar amp, with the echo and reverb cranked up. The band and everyone would get all steamed up and putting down a good groove, and all of a sudden he would start waving his arms back and forth, summoning the band to stop, and he'd start bashing around on his drums, with the echo-o-o-o running the whole time. If I knew what a bad acid trip was like, this probably would have been the soundtrack for it!

And put them in every cave complex in Afghanistan and drive out bin Laden while we're at it.

And on that note, I'll respectfully take a pass on the jokes about squealing soprano saxes, sheep, and the Taliban...

-= N =-

 

[DAN BOLTON]

It would be kinda difficult to fade out onstage live....

Actually, Herb used to fade out on his 'live version' of "What Now My Love" and others. All I'm saying is if you were in "arrangers class" and turned in a chart without an ending, wouldn't you get an incomplete? Now, Don Ellis, there's a guy who put endings on his songs...sometimes several.

By the way, I think Kenny G albums are now considered weapons of musical mass destruction. Let's air lift 'em all and drop them on Saddam!

I suppose in the FINAL ANALYSIS, you're probably right......both with Ellis and KennyG...