Denial of Magic Lamp recordings

[Charlie D]

I found this on a website and it says that in 1976 Karen herself as well as the fan club denied that she recorded those early tracks, but why? Was it that Karen or Richard or both just wanted to protect their image as a duo and deny that Karen never had any solo records, despite its brevity? Did Karen feel that she didn't deserve that solo billing (at least until her work with Phil)?

It just seems strange that they were covering this up and never wanted it to be widely known. It's a piece of their history and yet it was hush-hush.

"Unfortunately, Karen's 1966 solo, "I'll Be Yours," didn't chart and only received very minimal airplay in L.A. The song was buried for years, almost to the point of obscurity. According to journalist Steve Harvey, who interviewed the Carpenters in 1976, "Karen actually denied making the single." He added, "Even the fan club disclaimed it."

This is the original link: http://www.girl-groups.com/feature.htm

 

[Actorman]

I think it was most likely just a "PR" thing. They (R&K, A&M, their management, etc.) probably considered the solo single such a minor "blip" on their radar, it made for a better "story" to just forget about it. Having the "official" story be that they started having hits right off the bat (even "Ticket to Ride" was hyped up after the fact as being a bigger hit than it actually was) probably sounded better than saying Karen released a solo single that flopped before they made it big. It wasn't uncommon back then for artists and their management to "forget about" early stuff that may have been unsuccessful or that they didn't like. This was in the days before the Internet when it was much, much easier to keep this stuff secret.

We shouldn't think too much into it.

 

[GaryAlan]

And, the Carpenters' Fan Club Newsletter#59 May 1978
marks the first instance in which the Magic Lamp recordings are mentioned.
It begins thus:
"Richard has passed on the information relating to numerous inquiries concerning
the songs he and Karen recorded on the Magic Lamp label."

 

[GDBY2LV]

I remember it well. I was going to school in Chico, Ca. and heard about it from Steve. He wrote something called the Downey Soft I believe. Only a few issues. Anyway the fan club absolutely denied the recording when I wrote them about it. Lucky for me I traded a Beatles Sgt. Pepper's picture disc lp and $10. 00 for a copy of the single in 1980 from an ad in Goldmine Magazine. I believe Steve sold his copy of the single for about $1,000 before Karen's passing to a collector in Texas.

 

[GaryAlan]

While it remains true that these Magic Lamp recordings are not "earth-shattering",
the link implying a causative relationship such as
"it had limited distribution, it might as well have not existed" is tenuous, at best.
The fan club is transparent in prefacing: " in response to numerous inquiries", and thus the write-up in those 1978 Newsletters.
( Apparently,members of the Fan Club were interested in the pre-A&M phase of their career.)
"Where I Want To Be", also scarce --how does distribution enter into its equation?
Of course, also, Joe Osborn produced those Magic Lamp Records.
(Never heard of his being dismissed for that producer credit, either. Did Richard Carpenter not produce this?)
While there may have been no 'grand-conspiracy', the documentary evidence before May 1978--such as it is--
supports less than a transparent view (i.e., no view) regarding those Magic Lamp recordings.
It exists for all to read in its entirety :
Fan Club Newsletter May 1978,the earliest that Richard Carpenter affirms existence of those recordings.
(One merely asks: Why did it take so long? ).
Glance at the Tour book (auto) biographies.
The beginning as spelled out,for instance,
in the UK Tour Booklet (1976):
" Karen took up playing drums partly out of mischief as well as out of genuine interest...around 1966, they formed a Jazz Trio."
Asking questions presents an opportunity to revisit other,and primary, source material.

 

[Harry]

I view it the same as Karen's solo album. It's out now, everyone who wants to hear it/them can.

Harry

 

[Made In America]

Perfection is a double-edged sword. It produced some of the most phenomenal recordings in the past century. But it may have led to questionable decisions, from initially disowning early recordings that may have been considered primitive, to refusing to release videos because they are not perfect by today's standards. Yeah, they are not the right decisions and are head-scratchers to us. But I doubt anyone who has access to Richard today would question him on either decision. The Magic Lamp situation has been resolved and is water under the bridge at this point.

 

[GaryAlan]

MadeInAmerica, as with all the respondents to this thread---each one offers salient points.
The issue, indeed at this juncture in time has been settled.
The recordings, now, are in wide distribution, easy to acquire, and enjoyable to listen to.
Another fascinating facet of the duo's entire career !
However, the initial question pertained to the reliablity , if not verification--
of the denial of the existence of the Magic Lamp Single.
My reference to documentation--such as Fan Club Newsletters and TourBooklets--merely served
to indicate that it was not the denial of simply one recording at that time, it , also, was the
absence of description of any phase of Carpenters' career prior to the 1966 formation of the Jazz Trio.
I do not necessarily subscribe to any opinion regarding the entirety of this issue--however, I do note that in
bringing the information to light while referencing those documents, I am presenting the evidence as
it existing then. Not evidence which became available after the events had already transpired.
Of course, as of 2015 (or, even 1995) this entire issue has been resolved.
Viewing the past in terms of the present is not my preferred methodology in dealing with historical questions:
(Whig History) " This type of evaluation ignores historical background and the evidence that was available at a particular time."
I tend to divorce listening to Carpenters' music--which I have done faithfully every day since early 1970's---
from the Career of Carpenters, which presents Biographical/Historical challenges.

 

[Geographer]

This whole conversation sounds as if yet another "Evil Richard" controversy is attempting to be created out of nothing at all.

 

[GaryAlan]

There is no controversy.
There is no "Evil" Richard , or "Angelic" Karen for that matter.
Again, I reiterate: A Whig approach to a history of Carpenters' career is
distinct from "placing one in the context of the times, and utilization of the material available only at that time."
I quote Butterfield: "It is part and parcel of the whig interpretation of history that it studies the past with reference to the present."
This is merely an interesting interlude into documentation which existed in the 1970's,
as opposed to that documentary evidence which became available much later.
I rely as much as possible on source material available at the time in question.
In this I have no opinion, merely a modest representation of extant materials.

 

[newvillefan]

I think the denial is part and parcel of wanting to concentrate only on the "good stuff" i.e. they were a successful hit-making machine at the time and they and the record label probably wanted to focus on their successes. Once you're on a hit-making roll, who wants to go back over all the flops and failures you produced along the rocky road to stardom?

It's only as an artist becomes established and then later still legendary, do rarities and previously unreleased tracks seem to garner much more interest from critics and die hard fans alike - which is exactly what happened with them, mainly as a result of Karen's passing. I've always thought it interesting that in their heyday they never, ever included a non-album track or previously unreleased track as a B-side to any of their singles. It's common place nowadays. Richard by his own admission said that they recorded demos and if they didn't work at the time, they moved on and didn't give them a second thought. It's only when she died that he was forced to re-evaluate what was in the vaults and see if he could complete them to make them releasable.

 

[GaryAlan]

And, in all fairness, the
1979 Carpenters Decade Book,
published and distributed through Carpenters' Fan Club,
does devote some space to the issue (Page One):
"Two years earlier (from 1968) Karen and Richard had met session musician Joe Osborn
and done two songs for his independent label,
Magic Lamp Records, Karen's first recorded vocals."

 

[Geographer]

Am I missing something or am I not seeing the actual (quote?) of referenced "denial?"

 

[Harry]

Am I missing something or am I not seeing the actual (quote?) of referenced "denial?"

Look at the first post. The quoted part is from another website and claims that Karen denied making the record.

Harry

 

[Geographer]

Thanks, Harry. I saw that. I was wondering where Karen's actual denial quote is. Without that, this discussion seems kind of pointless. Just my opinion of course.

 

[GaryAlan]

Point well taken Geographer--and, I, too am unable to locate the actual interview from 1976.
Of course, it may not exist anymore--if ever it existed at all in print,audio or video.
My point was merely to indicate that up until 1978--via the Fan Club Newsletters--documentation
is absent relating to any biographical material (from the 1970's heyday) indicating that the Magic Lamp Single
was ever recorded. I also performed a rather extensive 1970's Newspaper Archival Search --at no point in the
Carpenters' career is reference made to anything prior to the 1966 formation of the Jazz Trio.
(The Fan Club also had a separate write-up of the duo in 1971, this essay begins with The Jazz Trio--there is no before.)
At no point is such denied--it is only that all the biographical materials begin with The Trio--no prior recording
by Karen Carpenter is ever discussed (at least, not in any print form that I am able to locate.)
The 1976 quote may, or may not, exist--that is not my point of departure.
However, every document between 1970 and 1978 fails to mention any Magic Lamp Single.
(All TourBooks, Fan Club to May 1978, Newspaper Bios 1970-1977, Melody Maker, People Magazine, etc.)

If someone has such documentation, I would love to read it !

Rolling Stone July 1974:
"The Carpenters' early history is not as smooth as some might assume.
Children of a lithographic printer, they grew up in New Haven, Connecticut, where 16-year-old Richard studied piano at Yale. The family moved to California in 1963, to Downey, a low-lying, bland suburb near L.A. International Airport. Richard continued his music studies at Cal State Long Beach, where he became interested in vocal arranging and was accompanist for the school choir.
A few months after high-schooler Karen had begun playing drums, the Carpenter Trio was formed – a jazz instrumental group consisting of Karen, Richard and a bass-playing friend. In 1966, the trio won a city-wide "Battle of the Bands" televised from the Hollywood Bowl, with Richard taking the Best Instrumentalist award as well."
People Magazine, August 1976:
"Two years later, with a friend on bass, the Carpenters won the 1966 Battle of the Bands in the Hollywood Bowl. They beat out hundreds of competitors but couldn't parlay it into record success until 1969. Along the way, with various groups, they played everyplace from the Whiskey a-Go-Go to Disneyland.
Karen and Richard then trimmed down to heavily overdubbed duos."

 

[Don Malcolm]

As Gary notes, without the ability to see how Steve Harvey purportedly addressed the issue of the Magic Lamp sides in his ostensible 1976 interview, we have only hearsay as regards "denial." There is a difference between outright denial and merely downplaying or sidestepping the existence of early work that might well be seen as "juvenilia." I think it's clear we don't have enough information to determine which it really was.

And while Harry is right that the songs as artistic achievements are "not earth-shattering," I would contend that they are fascinating glimpses into the evolving influences upon Richard Carpenter as songwriter and erstwhile producer. (Though Joe Osborn is listed as producer, we might surmise that Richard was operating as a "shadow" producer and familiarizing himself with recording techniques during this time.)

I think we see the girl group-Spector influence at its peak here, which is one reason why the songs do not break new ground or point to the unique qualities that would soon manifest themselves in Richard & Karen's synthesis of influences. We can see Richard transcending and synthesizing the Spector influence later on, making it something uniquely Carpenteresque in "Hurting Each Other," which I think can rightly be seen as the last great Spector-influenced track. By this time, Richard has mastered the art of arranging and can quote Spectorian elements in a more sublime, less bombastic manner, producing a highly resonant masterpiece that fully takes advantage of Karen's singular vocal talents.

All of this makes me wonder what it would be like to hear Karen sing "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" or "You're My Soul and Inspiration"--if only...

 

[Harry]

I would contend that they are fascinating glimpses into the evolving influences upon Richard Carpenter as songwriter

Absolutely. They do indeed point the way towards what would become Carpenters. My reference to "not earth-shattering" was simply a way of saying that these records were slightly more than kids playing around with a tape recorder. Yes, they were a bit more evolved than that, but they weren't about to break through into the mainstream with those sides. When you finally make the bigtime, recording for, and producing top ten hits for a major label, the stuff you did as "kids on a tape recorder" becomes quite the afterthought. It's a bit like not wanting your friends to see your Mom and Dad's home movies of you.

Harry

 

[GaryAlan]

Well, the thread compelled me to break out Disc One of From The Top,
in order to (re)listen to those early recordings. (I really love them !).
Interestingly enough,the Liner Notes state:
"Richard Carpenter Trio formed summer 1965...and,May 13,1966 Karen signed to Magic Lamp..."

Karen's drumming on 1966's,
Looking For Love and I'll Be Yours
are outstanding, considering she had
only been playing the drums for a short time.

What I do find of interest is that even Offering was quickly repackaged and re-titled after the duo hit with
Close To You and We've Only Just Begun.
The song Mr. Guder was written in 1967 and was featured prominently in concerts and recordings
throughout the 1970's.(not to mention--later-- on many, many Compilations-- both vinyl and cd).
Mr. Guder--in my opinion--is not as strong a composition as as the Magic Lamp Singles.
Parting Of Our Ways, Looking For Love and I'll Be Yours
are found only on From The Top(1991)/Essential Collection(2003).

Needless to say,
this thread has provoked many a thoughtful response
and, I have enjoyed perusal of them all.

 

[Guitarmutt]

Funny, I think Mr Guder is a strong composition.

Sure, some react to the anti establishment nature of it, but listen to its structure and development as music. There is pop, jazz, baroque and fun. It's the one they kept from that time for a reason, IMHO.

 

[Dave]

Hard to believe the experimental quality of these singles would lead to stuff considered "wishy-washy" to many (by no one HERE, of course!)... All the while Offering/Ticket To Ride's "All I Can Do" would be as meaty as Karen & Richard Carpenter could get...

Even doing Paul Williams-Roger Nichols stuff would be a far-cry from the Small Circle Of Friends (Melinda MacLeod, where are you?) material that was the genesis of those two's careers, contributing "Let Me Be The One", "I Won't Last A Day Without You" and course songs that were hits in "Rainy Days & Mondays" and the blockbuster of "We've Only Just Begun"... Nowhere deep as any discovery of Karen Brian (she could only coax out one single produced/having at least one song written by them, then had disappeared)...

So here are the Dynamic Duo's not-so-humble beginnings...!


-- Dave