📣 News Carpenters: "The Vinyl Collection"

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Don’t know where you got the decades, but these vinyls were probably mastered from at least second generation digital copies, as the Remastered Classics Digital masters were most likely copied from the first generation analog masters.

The last original album was made in 1989. The others are, of course, older. If we're talking "Offering/Ticket to Ride", we're talking nearly 50 years. We have yet to hear what the sources for these LPs are. It is known Richard used those analog tapes as much as he could. It's my understanding that the multis were the ones that were destroyed. The 2-channel masters used the make the original albums would then still exist. If they do, they're very old and who knows what condition they're in.

I'd be very interested to find out, as many of are, what the source for these LPs was. That seems to be the million-dollar question.

Ed
 
I unwrapped my set tonight and seem to be one of the luckier buyers. The records in my set look very good overall. There were only two noticeable "scratches" upon my initial inspection. Hopefully neither will not be audible upon playing (after cleaning). These imperfections were found on the tracks, "Those Good Old Dreams" and "Aurora". (I would've traded a perfect "Horizon" for a flawed "Ticket To Ride", instead! LOL) A few of the records did have sloppy spindle holes or a small (sharp-edged) chip in the outer edge, but, overall, nothing like some have described. Personally, I absolutely dread going to the post office, so I am relieved. My sympathies go out to those fellow forum members who received bad sets. Most of the records in my set have nice plastic-lined inner sleeves (except those that had printed inner sleeves). I thought I read that some were buying their own plastic sleeves and I'm not sure why. I do wish each album had one. My intention with this post is to restore confidence to those members who are on the fence or fearing every set is going to be defective. Hopefully, only a very small percentage will be. Better yet, the high number of returns should cause the manufacturer to step up the quality control.

Good for you! I'm glad you got a good set. BTW, people buy their own plastic sleeves so as to preserve the printed inner sleeves as well as possible.

Again, congrats! Hope they sound as wonderful as you want them to. :)

Ed
 
With all the negative comments I decided to open mine. Overall, they look great: very clean, no visible scratches. There is a scuff mark on A kind of Hush, I'm hoping that'll come out with a good cleaning. The only major issue was a definite pock mark on I Can Dream Can't I. Does not look promising. We'll play them on the weekend, then check with Amazon on how to handle the returns. Labels, holes, etc - excellent condition. No tears, etc.
 
With all the negative comments I decided to open mine. Overall, they look great: very clean, no visible scratches. There is a scuff mark on A kind of Hush, I'm hoping that'll come out with a good cleaning. The only major issue was a definite pock mark on I Can Dream Can't I. Does not look promising. We'll play them on the weekend, then check with Amazon on how to handle the returns. Labels, holes, etc - excellent condition. No tears, etc.

Pock marks can be deceptive. They don't always make audible noise. Here's hoping yours won't. Magical song that doesn't deserve any disturbance whatsoever.

Ed
 
Pock marks can be deceptive. They don't always make audible noise. Here's hoping yours won't. Magical song that doesn't deserve any disturbance whatsoever.

Ed
Pock mark is a good term; it’s what I see on my “Those Good Old Dreams”. The small scratch on my “Aurora” appears to have been caused by a tiny stray piece of vinyl caught between the record and the sleeve. :sad:
 
Maybe I should have kept my set and just framed the covers and hung them in my cave. But I didn't and I'm glad. It's not that the covers are not worth it, it's the principal of the thing. Imagine the doctor installs a new heart in your chest, then rips it out the next day. You just can't leave the heart lying about. You have to send it far away so you're not reminded of what could have been.
 
Maybe I should have kept my set and just framed the covers and hung them in my cave. But I didn't and I'm glad. It's not that the covers are not worth it, it's the principal of the thing. Imagine the doctor installs a new heart in your chest, then rips it out the next day. You just can't leave the heart lying about. You have to send it far away so you're not reminded of what could have been.

I agree completely. If the product is defective, UMe needs to know it. We have to speak with our wallets when things aren't right. You spent too much money to simple "make do".

Ed
 
Pock mark is a good term; it’s what I see on my “Those Good Old Dreams”. The small scratch on my “Aurora” appears to have been caused by a tiny stray piece of vinyl caught between the record and the sleeve. :sad:

That's just shoddy packaging. Maybe they'll exchange specific albums in the set if they're defective. Might reach out to them. They certainly should do that and it'd be in their best interests to do it too.

Ed
 
The last original album was made in 1989. The others are, of course, older. If we're talking "Offering/Ticket to Ride", we're talking nearly 50 years. We have yet to hear what the sources for these LPs are. It is known Richard used those analog tapes as much as he could. It's my understanding that the multis were the ones that were destroyed. The 2-channel masters used the make the original albums would then still exist. If they do, they're very old and who knows what condition they're in.

I'd be very interested to find out, as many of are, what the source for these LPs was. That seems to be the million-dollar question.

Ed
2001 was when the last original album was released! And even then Richard was using tapes that were over 30 years old! Also we know that some of the 2-track masters have deteriorated because of other issues (I.e. Christmas Portrait). However, it seems that Richard still has access to a number of the multi-tracks(I.e. “Christmas Memories”, ‘Christmas Alphabet’, ‘Make Me Laugh’). Even if they are no longer in analog, a first digital generation copy (one copy away from the original analog recording)would essentially be the same as the original analog recording. It would be like if I shot something on S-VHS, digitized it to a computer for editing and then played it back out to S-VHS. My last version would be the same quality as my first, unlike if I just went from S-VHS to S-VHS, and I lost a generation.
 
2001 was when the last original album was released! And even then Richard was using tapes that were over 30 years old! Also we know that some of the 2-track masters have deteriorated because of other issues (I.e. Christmas Portrait). However, it seems that Richard still has access to a number of the multi-tracks(I.e. “Christmas Memories”, ‘Christmas Alphabet’, ‘Make Me Laugh’). Even if they are no longer in analog, a first digital generation copy (one copy away from the original analog recording)would essentially be the same as the original analog recording. It would be like if I shot something on S-VHS, digitized it to a computer for editing and then played it back out to S-VHS. My last version would be the same quality as my first, unlike if I just went from S-VHS to S-VHS, and I lost a generation.


This is true, however I'd like to point out that digital generational copies don't lose quality. Whether it's first or 100th they are the same as long as the copy was made digitally.
Same as copying a file on your computer.
 
The "flashing" around the spindle hole is actually quite common and really isn't considered a "defect." I have that on a Warner Bros. LP I received recently. Chip it off and play it if it's in the way; otherwise, leave it. Slight tears of the label around the spindle hole are also very common; it is just a byproduct of the manufacturing process, as is the flashing.

And as I can attest from numerous purchases, some records might have a strange appearance or even very minor scratches or apparent scuffs that do not affect play whatsoever. I have a few that look scary, yet play back cleanly.

Dirty records I can also deal with, but that is another point--I am equipped to deal with it, but not everyone is going to own an ultrasonic cleaner and record vacuum, or even a Spin Clean. A dust removal brush/pad won't get any but the most superficial dirt and dust off of a record. As I've said before, record pressing plants are not a clean room environment. Yet is it much to ask to get a record which isn't so filthy that it requires multiple cleanings? Or like the LP that @Cuppadan pictured above...just what the heck was caked on his record anyway??

It is encouraging to see a few who have gotten acceptable sets. Let's hope that maybe these early sets were the only ones affected. Horizon hits my mailbox this evening, so I'll see how that one plays out.
 
This is true, however I'd like to point out that digital generational copies don't lose quality. Whether it's first or 100th they are the same as long as the copy was made digitally.
Same as copying a file on your computer.
That depends. If you go from a wav to a mp3 back to wav then you are losing quality because of compression.

But with the Carpenters, if the digital tapes were copied from the first generation analog tapes, then there should be no loss of quality.
 
There is information lost when converting analog to digital, which is why some of us are hoping the LPs were cut from analog masters (and hopefully the original masters, although that is not how UMe tends to do things...only the audiophile labels bother to do it correctly). With UMe's history of "archiving" some of their masters to 44.1kHz/16-bit digital (which is far, far away from "high resolution"), I definitely would not want an LP cut from that. In that case, might as well buy one of those dull-sounding Remastered Classics CDs.
 
Don't put up with this crappy product (as evidenced by these appalling photos). Send it back and demand a full refund!

Looks like they chose to manufacture the vinyl "on the cheap" and now it's backfiring terribly. It's a shame as it seems the covers and inner sleeves were done to everyone's satisfaction.
 
That depends. If you go from a wav to a mp3 back to wav then you are losing quality because of compression.

But with the Carpenters, if the digital tapes were copied from the first generation analog tapes, then there should be no loss of quality.


You are absolutely correct in that context.
But If you're talking just digital and the actual bits are copied then there is no loss. It's an exact copy. However if the digital audio is decoded and re-encoded then you get loss. I don't know if those studio digital recorders from the 80s and 90s are capable of transferring pure digital code to modern equipment. That would be a good information to know.
 
That flashing might be common but it's not something you want to see on a $150.00 plus box set. I still want this collection so it benefits me to exchange out the flawed ones for a nicer copy. I have confidence that when it's all done I'll end up with a nice set.

I wonder why Bernie Grundman did not master this set? Does he still work in the industry for this kind of work?
 
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I probably should also have said flashing is unavoidable in the production of records, and is dependent on the presses being used as they all operate slightly different. I would rather have the flashing, than have them try to remove it and damage the record in some other way.
 
I've seen it more on the 180 and 200 gram records pressed over the past decade or two than I have with the mass-market LPs from the 70s and 80s (although there, I have still seen a few over the years). It could just be unavoidable due to there being a larger puck of vinyl than the old presses were originally designed for.
 
Hello everyone! I'm a big Hoffman Forum contributor and have been lurking around here for a few years but this is my first post. I wish it were for a better reason. I love the Carpenters, and a lot of the reason is I really appreciate Richard's very, very hard work with his production. I used to own a recording studio and know how much work what he did is. I am not minimizing Karen's work in the least. It's just that her contributions as a vocalist are very obvious, notable and realized by anyone that appreciates her style of vocals. Production is something most people, frankly, are not really aware of. And sound quality, unfortunately, is also something we know most folks don't really care about, or are educated in. I have always had an appreciation for the overall sound quality of the Carpenter's productions. It makes me really happy whenever I hear about how much Richard, still, cares about that aspect of his work.

So, regarding their new vinyl albums, frankly it makes me very angry. I understand Richard communicates with one or more of you, and that he will likely hear of our comments. There are pressing plants that are putting out consistent, high quality vinly pressings. And there are a couple that put out consistently very poor quality pressings. I will go out on a limb and state that the labels are very aware of this, and I also have no doubt it's all about cost. Albums by mainstream artists that may sell 50,000 copies (Taylor Swift) at a price of $20 for two discs are usually pressed at low quality. It takes me 3-4 returns before I get a copy of her material that is even close to acceptable (for all four albums I have of her). I don't think this is a coincidence or my bad luck. But, I realize this demographic probably doesn't care that much about pressing quality. But in general, reissues that are $30 plus, and audiophile recordings, are typically well pressed and sound fantastic for the most part, in my experience. I have what I think most here would think is a higher end vinyl rig, and for better or worse it is very transparent. My VPI Prime table is very revealing. So, when I get a pressing that is poor, I always ask myself why a label would purposely want to degraid their artist's music? Especially an artist or group as iconic and the Carpenters, especially when many in this demo DO care about quality, as Richard does.

So, I have purchased at least 15 copies of Horizon over the years, alwasy trying to get the very best copy. It is in my top five of all time favorite albums, and I just love it. The rare album where every track, imo, is very well done. I know the recording well. I just received my reissue. It's a mess...I won't even go into it it's so screwed up. It exhibits pretty much all the defects mentioned above by others. But the worse thing to me, and the reason it's going back without me even bothering to exchange it, is the mastering. It is veiled, and clearly a few generations away from my best other pressings. Just sad. But it's been many years since it was recorded and perhaps this is simply as good as we're going to get. But the defects in the vinyl are inexcuseable for a group like this. If I were Richard, I would be furious as there is no way anyone will convince be that UMG didn't know ahead of time that product coming from wherever they pressed it (Rainbo would be very suspect imo) would be exactly as it is. It seems like it's an accident if you get a good pressing from them. I would have far preferred to be charged significantly more for a quality pressing. I also received a copy of Now & Then. The pressing is so bad I gave up pretty fast and I don't have an opinion on the mastering as I didn't get that far. I was disgusted and it's simply going back. And that is the end of my excitement or desire to experience this rerelease. I'm glad I didn't spring for the box, and that I've held onto all my other pressings.

To their label I say, shame on you for doing this on purpose to such an iconic group led by someone that would care about this issue. I wish I could hear him on the phone when he expresses his feelings about how their material was handled so irresponsibly. I do congratuate those that got a good pressing, and are enjoying them. I wish I could count myself in your court. I look forward to contibuting in the future, though I hope it's on a more positive note. Thank you to everyone that has contributed interesting comments in the past that I have enjoyed!
 
Just one other thing as I hate to be so negative...I wholeheartedly agree with comments that are complimenting the art and quality of the covers. I do give them high marks for this. But, if there was ever an example of lipstick on a pig, this is it! Horrible quality vinyl, hidden by beautiful packaging. Shame on UMG.
 
@Jonr Rainbo? Or maybe United? I agree it's like a "lowest bidder" situation with a lot of UMe's vinyl. I remember when Adele's last album came out and Fremer wrote about it, he mentioned that the label was tight-lipped as to which pressing plants were used (as they used multiple plants, due to it being a big seller).

I don't know if you caught my post earlier in the thread (from yesterday)--I bought a few Diana Krall releases from get_importcd on eBay, and they are actually very nicely pressed. Clean vinyl, quiet surfaces, mastering isn't anything like the ORG 45RPM Look Of Love (Bernie Grundman, I believe?) but it's not too shabby either. No idea where these were pressed but they are far and away better than what I'm seeing above. So...why couldn't these have been done under similar care?

I guess only the bean counters know...
 
I'm not going to write these off until I hear how the UK/European pressings turn out.
Agreed. We have no idea if they were manufactured in different countries for global markets.

Could be a "Beatles vinyl box" situation. UK/EU vinyl was virtually flawless. (I own one--it's as good as they say, and then some! Clean, flat, quiet, completely ideal in terms of the manufacturing quality.) Rainbo, on the other hand, pressed the US version, and those had all sorts of issues. I only purchased Rubber Soul and Revolver and both had defects. "Eleanor Rigby" had a deep scratch more than halfway through the track. On one track from Rubber Soul, it skips. Those weren't the only issues, but they were two of the most notable. I haven't had records skip since I was a kid! (And back then taping a quarter to the tonearm was usually the cure for that! :laugh: )
 
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