🎷 AotW: CTI Tamba 4 - WE AND THE SEA (SP-3004)

[Captain Bacardi]

Tamba 4
WE AND THE SEA
A&M/CTi SP-3004

Released 1967

Format: Vinyl/Reel-to-Reel/8-Track/CD

Produced by Creed Taylor

Songs:

• 1. The Hill (O Morro) (Antonio Carlos Jobim/Vinicius de Moraes) - 7:39
  2. Flower Girl (Moça Flor) (Durval Ferreiro/Luiz Fernando) - 3:09
  3. Iemanjá (Baden Powell) - 4:33
  4. We And The Sea (Nós e ou Mar) (Roberto Menescal/Ronaldo Boscoli) - 2:32
  5. Chant Of Ossanha (Canto de Ossanha) (Baden Powell/Vinicius de Moraes) - 5:01
  6. Dolphin (Luiz Eça) - 2:23
  7. Consolation (Consolação) (Baden Powell/Vinicius de Moraes) - 8:15

Musicians:
Luiz Eça - Piano & Organ
Dorio Ferreira - Bass, Guitar & Percussion
Rubens Ohana - Drums, Jawbone & Conga
José de Castilho e Souza ("Bebeto") - Flute, Bass (1, 5) & Vocal (2)

Voices by Tamba 4

Recorded at Van Gelder Studios
Rudy Van Gelder, Engineer
Recorded September 5, 6, 7, 11, 12 and 14, 1967

Cover Photographs by Pete Turner
Album Design by Sam Antupit

Liner notes by Harvey Loomis



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Rudy]

This was one of those A&M albums I'd seen on the innersleeves for decades, but only acquired a few years ago. To say I was floored is an understatement--the opener, "O Morro", left me breathless! Luiz Eca is in top form on this track, and takes the Tamba group through an extended "theme and variations" exploration of this Brazilian favorite. The same can be said for the dynamic "Consolacao" that closes the album.

What I find curious, though, is the varied sound quality on this album. For the above two tracks, and to a lesser extent "Chant of Ossanha", the sound is a bright mono, with a guitar overdubbed at a later time (as it is in a separate channel and slightly out of phase, hard to localize, meaning the LP probably had the dreaded HAECO-CSG processing on it). Despite what the album notes state, I'd bet every dollar I had that these three tracks were recorded earlier at a different studio as the Tamba Trio (Eca's usual performing unit), and the guitar was overdubbed at Van Gelder's. (And that still leaves open the debate as to why they felt they should augment the Tamba Trio with a fourth member.) Further testament to this: the remaining tracks are afflicted, even on CD, with that murky muddiness that characterizes the A&M/CTi recordings done at Van Gelder studios (and sounds similar to the lackluster Samba Blim album). Listen through headphones--the difference is as obvious as night and day. (It is known that the Tamba Trio had performed the three tracks earlier, as I have live versions on a different recording.)

These remaining tracks, while good, are also not up to the standards of the other three tracks and, for that matter, other Tamba Trio recordings in general. It's obvious that these recordings for A&M/CTi were to be for a different audience, as Luiz Eca is practically buried on these other tracks (almost reduced to sideman status in his own band!) and is rarely given a chance to play in his usual lively style. Still, "Iemanja" has to be one of the loveliest and most haunting tracks ever to make it to A&M's label. "Dolphin" has almost turned into a "standard," and is Eca's best known composition. To me, the only expendable track on the album is "Flower Girl (Moca Flor)"...a lifeless number that really could have been cut in favor of something better.
With the album bookended by two excellent jazz/Brazilian workouts, and some haunting gems between, it's arguably the best A&M/CTi album in the catalog...certainly ranking among the top three in my book!

-= N =-

 

[Harry]

I too have only discovered this album in recent years, following discussions here. My first taste of Tamba 4 came from finding the more obscure SAMBA BLIM, a mono copy of the LP with no cover. I came to enjoy that one a great deal and sought out WE AND THE SEA. After first hearing a rather scratchy copy on a tape, I was thrilled to learn that the Japanese had released it on CD, and purchased POCM-5058, the one with the misspelled name on the spine and back cover, that of "Tanba 4." The sound on that one was less than stellar and rather muddy. Still, it was way better than the scratchy copy on tape.

Finally in 2000, Verve By Request, in a series of re-issues of A&M Material, re-released the album with proper remastering, finally bringing out the highs and minimizing the hiss, packaging it in a gatefold digipak.

I can hear what Neil's talking about regarding the mono-ness of some of the tracks. They do sound like they were originally mono with a guitar overdub thrown into the left channel -- almost like the woodblock effect on the TJB's "Acapulco 1922." Whether or not that was intentional really can't be ascertained. Perhaps Van Gelder just wanted the main group to sound "together" when he mixed the tracks.

The "Chant Of Ossanha" would later show up on The Sandpipers' album THE WONDER OF YOU as "Let Go."

Still, a great album. One of the best things to ever come out of New Jersey!

Harry
NP: Tamba 4, WE AND THE SEA

 

[Rudy]

I ended up buying two CD versions of this one. I grabbed the original Japanese reissue--someone had mentioned it was available at Dusty Groove, and there was a mad rush by all of us to buy it before it sold out again. The 'Verve By Request' edition sounds a little better, but those three mono-like tracks perhaps sound noisier than the others...another clue they would have been recorded elsewhere. I had a mono (?) copy of Samba Blim that Harry had sent on cassette, and I eventually did find the LP...a full two months before it came out on CD. Such is my luck.

-= N =-
...trying to think of more New Jersey jokes ...

 

[William]

Enh... :|

This album, as a whole, doesn't really do it for me. I do like "Iemanja" very much, and the longer tracks have several great moments, but the whole thing doesn't really hang together that well, IMO. It's impressive how they manage to turn "O Morro" and "Consolation" inside out, but the arrangements sound random and fragmented to me. I suppose I am grateful to the album for introducing "The Dolphin"; although this version doesn't really do much for me, Stan Getz and Bill Evans both recorded it (individually) years later, to much better effect. As much as I respect Eca's talent, I hear a lot more technique than feeling in his playing... not unlike Oscar Peterson.

As far as sound goes, I did notice that the mic'ing on Bebeto's flutes is uncharacteristically dry and flat--Van Gelder recorded Hubert Laws much better.

All in all, I guess I just don't "get it." Actually, I haven't listened to it too often since I bought it--I should probably give it another listen or two. Anyway, general impression is that it's nice, but not brilliant.

- William

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Like a lot of people, this album grabbed my attention just a few years ago. I remember being curious about this album when I first saw a photo of it many years ago on one of the inner sleeves from a TJB record, but didn't think much of it later. It wasn't until I first popped in at the Corner 4 years ago, or so, when it was a subject of one thread. I remember going to a record show and everyone was asking me to look for this album, as well as Samba Blim. I found copies of both for someone (I forget who) as well as getting copies for myself. When I first heard We And The Sea, I was kind of blown away at how really musical it was. The opening tune, "O Morro", was mesmerizing, as was "Iemanja". This was some very creative stuff, certainly different from the usual Creed Taylor productions. One negative note, though, is the hiss on the CD. Sometimes it just drives me up a wall on a couple of songs. But this is one album that piqued my interest in Brazilian music. One of these days I need to get some of the Tamba Trio albums. I hear they're pretty good.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Rudy]

I remember going to a record show and everyone was asking me to look for this album, as well as Samba Blim. I found copies of both for someone (I forget who)

Guilty as charged on the Samba Blim. I'd already had the AOTW on reel at this point, and it was a few months later when I either saw the LP listed for sale on a seller's website, or maybe someone replied to one of my Usenet postings.

This was some very creative stuff, certainly different from the usual Creed Taylor productions.

That's what drew me into it...I never did like some of the CTi albums, being overproduced and too buried in strings. This one was pretty much straight Tamba...although I can tell on the "mono-like" tunes that they weren't as "produced" as the others on the album.

One negative note, though, is the hiss on the CD. Sometimes it just drives me up a wall on a couple of songs.

That's what struck me about both CDs I own, and the reel version as well. (Reels are quite noisy to begin with, since this was the era pre-Dolby.)

But this is one album that piqued my interest in Brazilian music. One of these days I need to get some of the Tamba Trio albums. I hear they're pretty good.

A good starter is the two-CD set, which I got from Dusty Groove for about $25. Disc 1, especially, shows what the real Tamba Trio sounds like...a very tight Brazilian jazz trio, and surprisingly, a lot of vocals in equally tight three-part harmony. ("Desafinado" is reminiscent of the same "theme and variations" style they follow on We And The Sea's better tracks...although this is wrapped up in a nice tight three minute package, with more tempo changes than a beginning drum student.

And Luiz Eca flies across the keyboard. IMHO, the band that plays on Samba Blim almost sounds like a distant cousin at best (other than "Reza"). Similar, but in two different leagues. This is probably the biggest example of how the A&M/CTi albums sometimes come across as "marketed" jazz...made for a specific type of listener. I think that if the third Tamba 4 album were ever released, I'd think it would be a lot like Samba Blim and possibly would end up being a disappointment to someone who prefers the sound of Tamba Trio.

-= N =-

 

[Dave]

TAMBA 4
WE AND THE SEA

SP3004 (Released 1968)

Vinyl, R-to-R, Cassette and 4 & 8 Track
(Reissued on Verve Records in April 2000)

Produced by Creed Taylor
Engineered by Rudy Van Gelder at Van Gelder Studios
Recorded on Sept 5-7, 11-12 & 14, 1967
Liner Notes by Harvey Loomis
Cover Photos by Pete Turner
Album Design by Sam Antupit

Tamba 4:
Piano & Organ: Luis Eça
Bass, Guitar and Percussion: Dorio
Drums, Jawbone and Conga: Ohana
Flute (Bass on cuts 1 and 5, Vocal on cut 2): Bebeto

Track Listing:

1. The Hill (O Morro) (Jobim/deMoraes) 8:08
2. Flower Girl (Moça Flor) (Ferreira/Freire) 3:08
3. Iemanjà (Powell/deMoraes) 4:30
4. We And The Sea (Nós e ou Mar) (Menescal/Boscoli) 2:30
5. Chant Of Ossanha (Canto de Ossanha) (Powell/deMoraes) 5:00
6. Dolphin (Eca)(2:20)
7. Consolation (Consolação) (Powell/deMoraes) 8:10

-= N =-
[/list]

A pretty Basic Sounding set. The sound is a bit compressed and even dense. Makes you wonder if ALL of it was recorded at Rudy Van Gelder's Studio--a former church, which whould even have recording going up in the upper pews. Or maybe ol' Rudy just had one of his Ingenious Engineering tricks up his sleeve.

The eight compositions run from typical 2-minute legnths to EIGHT minutes or more. No wonder '5' are on one side and '3' are on another. Have the CD in in the FORMER cardboard "digipak" cover tucked into my SP 3004 cover. Which once housed the former vinyl I could NEVER get a good quality copy of.

Typical Brasilian Chants, Wails and Wallows. This group managed to run a lot deeper than Sergio. The late Luis Eça and Company kept this first outing very close to its roots, but also gave it just the right amount of Commercial Flair.

The next album and an unreleased third album took this A LOTTA steps furthur.

Dave

 

[jimac51]

Dave-I always thought that Rudy's Englewood Cliffs studio/residence was built from the ground up in July,1959 by Rudy to his exacting specs after using his parents living room as a studio in Hackensack,N.J. Do you know any of the building's past history as a church? Mac

 

[Dave]

Dave-I always thought that Rudy's Englewood Cliffs studio/residence was built from the ground up in July,1959 by Rudy to his exacting specs after using his parents living room as a studio in Hackensack,N.J. Do you know any of the building's past history as a church? Mac

Mac, you may actually be right. I have heard various stories that it:

(A) HAS been a church or CATHEDRAL...or...

(B) Built from the ground up, maybe to Cathedral-Like specs, maybe not...

Dave

...Giocho Adesso: Deodato "Ave Maria", which would sound good if it had been recorded there, like his sterling "2001: Also Sprach Zathustra"...

 

[jimac51]

The studio does have a high wooden "cathedral-like" ceiling. I have the two Francis Wolff photo books as well as the Blue Note cover books and love looking at the corners for clues as what the surroundings looked like. About 90% of the photos were taken in either Rudy's Hackensack or Englewood Cliff studios-just two rooms. The Hackensack era is interesting because you will see venetian blinds,old fashioned wallpaper and reading lamps in the rooms where people like Thelonius Monk,Art Blakey and Sonny Rollins made history. One photo has a group of musicians taking a break in the backyard of the VanGelder residence and you expect Ward Cleaver to walk by any minute to say "hi" to the next door neighbors. Mac

 

[Dave]

The studio does have a high wooden "cathedral-like" ceiling. I have the two Francis Wolff photo books as well as the Blue Note cover books and love looking at the corners for clues as what the surroundings looked like. About 90% of the photos were taken in either Rudy's Hackensack or Englewood Cliff studios-just two rooms. The Hackensack era is interesting because you will see venetian blinds,old fashioned wallpaper and reading lamps in the rooms where people like Thelonius Monk,Art Blakey and Sonny Rollins made history. One photo has a group of musicians taking a break in the backyard of the VanGelder residence and you expect Ward Cleaver to walk by any minute to say "hi" to the next door neighbors. Mac

I think I may have seen that photo...or SOME photo. Is there a Sports Car in the background? I think I read in one article or on the liner notes of an album that if you open the door of the studio, you may hit someone playing. That is where I read about the studio being "cathedral-like".

Dave

 

[Dave]

First "unique"--not Herbie Mann, A.C. Jobim, Paul Desmond, Nat Adderley or Wes Montogomery--I ever saw in the store and months later, saw the follow-up Samba Blim...

I never did buy that first copy I saw--which the store I even saw it at once played on its Stereo/P-A System; (W.L. Promo w/ DJ Stamp, etc.) --and regretted it, though have since found it a fairly common item...

I even had it on CD and tried to fit it in my original Gatefold LP cover (hadn't yet discovered those "slim" cases I now use and have ALL my Compact Discs in) and sooner or later acquired the follow-up, Samba Blim, while also finally buying both Berimabu/California Soul and a double-sided W.L. Promo California Soul on '45's...

Which song is my most favorite??!! --LOVE 'EM ALL!!!! Dolphin appropriately went on the Family Portrait collection, while O Morro (The Hill) has also been covered by Vibist, Gary McFarland on his own Skye-label album, Does The Sun Really Shine On The Moon... In a few years, you would get a version of Iemanjá, redone by Sergio Mendes & Brasil '77...

Gotta give this Baby ***** --FIVE!!!



Dave

 

[seashorepiano]

I came across this album in a brick-and-mortar store in Washington, DC, a few years back and was intrigued by the cover of the album. I passed it up the first few times I saw it. Yet buying this album was but the beginning of my exploration of the A&M/CTi and independent CTi sound.

For a trio that was augmented by the eternally controversial Creed Taylor (wasn't Dorio the 4th member he added?), I think the 4 make an erudite and effectively beautiful fusion of classical and Brazilian music. The closing of "Consolacao" is a fiery mix of Debussy and bossa nova. "We and the Sea" and "The Dolphin" are enjoyable, brief tone poems. Eca's use of the Hammond organ on "Iemanja" adds more intrigue to an already ghostly number. "Moca flor" is simple and melancholic. Maybe the recording wasn't the best, but I dismiss that in light of the music itself.

Eclectic, grossly underrated and under-appreciated, damned to unfortunate obscurity next to its predecessors and followers in the A&M/CTi canon, the Tamba 4's debut earns 5.

 

[bc4a&m]

Just heard it for the first time a few weeks ago - after hearing you all talk about, I downloaded it from iTunes...wow. Phenomenal, creative, unexpected. I only wish I'd heard it years ago!

 

[Harry]

There are probably a few of us who took a long time to finally discover this album.

Though I'd seen the cover on various inner-sleeves for years, and I had the "Dolphin" song on the FAMILY PORTRAIT album, I never gave much thought to this title. It wasn't Mendes, Alpert, Carpenters, etc, so I just dismissed it. Dumb!

When I became a member here, and discussions turned to Tamba 4, I felt a bit left out. One day, in perusing the record library at work, I found a copy of SAMBA BLIM, Tamba 4's followup to WE AND THE SEA. It was a mono copy in a plain black cover (obviously the original had been lost or misplaced), aksed if I could borrow it, and began my excursion into the recordings of Tamba 4.

I really enjoyed that SAMBA BLIM album, even in mono. So much so that I sought out WE AND THE SEA. At the time, it was out of print just about everywhere. All I could come up with on eBay was a jukebox-33 version of the album, a taste of the whole thing in a condensed EP form.

Miraculously, the Japanese reissue program turned to Tamba 4, coming out with both WE AND THE SEA and SAMBA BLIM in time. Finally I heard the whole glorious WE AND THE SEA album, though the mastering was a bit on the muddy side. The year 2000 saw the album re-released on CD in the US on the Verve-by-Request label, complete with an attempt at duplicating the original A&M label on the disc. This mastering was much cleaner and nicer to listen to. Now I wish they'd do the same for SAMBA BLIM.

My favorite tracks are "Iemanjá" and "Chant Of Ossanha (Canto de Ossanha)".

Five stars all the way.

Harry

 

[Rudy]

Just heard it for the first time a few weeks ago - after hearing you all talk about, I downloaded it from iTunes...wow. Phenomenal, creative, unexpected. I only wish I'd heard it years ago!

It's fantastic! I don't know if it's on iTunes, but there is a 2-CD compilation of pre- and post-A&M tracks by Tamba Trio that is worth finding.

There are probably a few of us who took a long time to finally discover this album.

It took me a long time just to find it! First on a reel tape, then finally on LP. I even looked occasionally in all the local used record shops since the 80s, but have never seen it here. I ended up having to get this one and Samba Blim through online sources.

I get the feeling that this album was recorded in two different places. The sound varies on the tracks. For instance, listen to the sound of "O Morro" and how everything comes out of dead center...except for the guitar, which I'm guessing was overdubbed. IOW, this sounds like the original trio recording was recorded earlier (it is much brighter), then was fleshed out into a quartet at Van Gelder's by overdubbing guitar. Now, compare how "Iemanja" has that typical muddy Van Gelder Studio sound, and how the instruments are spread around...this is the A&M/CTi sound you hear on all the others in the catalog, even the second Tamba 4 album.

Musically this is a crown jewel of the A&M/CTi catalog, along with Jobim's Wave. Both of these get the most play around here.

 

[PartyRico]

If you have not heard this GREAT recording (And "Samba Blim" as well...) I feel sorry for you! Luis Eca the band leader is considered to be one of Brazil's greatest pianists, and arrangers. Mr. Eca sadly passed away a few years ago, but the legacy of his great "Tamba" group lives on. It was known as Tamba Trio for a long time. Their music is very exquisite and erudite, as Mr. Eca was as Jobim also was of "classical formation". These guys did their homework, paid their dues and created wonderful, beautiful music. "Samba Blim" is better in my opinion than "We And The Sea". Either way, do yourself a favor and get both!

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Like most others I didn't get this album until a few years ago. I had always liked the LP cover from the inner sleeves of the TJB albums that I had, but I never saw this album in any store. I finally found it - and Samba Blim at a record convention (where it was going for a hefty price). I believe I bought a couple of copies for someone at the Corner.

As for the music, it's breathtaking, exotic and inspiring. I would put this up as one of the better musical experiences ever released on A&M. From the opening tune "O Morro" - with the killer piano solo by Luis Eca, to the hypnotic sound of "Iemanja", the brief title tune, and the closing track "Consolation", this is just as creative an album as there is. This should be a must-have in anyone's collection. 5 huge stars!



Capt. Bacardi

 

[PartyRico]

Life is NOT fair! With a bit of decent air play, both of Tambas A&M releases should have been massive sellers. When you see the huge success of say cRap music , Snoop Dog, Jay-Ho, or Britney Air-head, it makes me angry how many folks can't distinguish good music from garbage.

 

[sbsugar]

Love this album, along with Samba Blim....good stuff, nice & relaxing, for the most part.

 

[Dave]

I haven't seen one person NOT give this FIVE-STARS! (Well, who meant FOUR-AND-A-HALF?)

The store I first saw this at played it on its PA System, and I had every chance at that first copy I saw, only to later and regrettably dismiss it until this Forum came into existance for me, too! After which I would buy every copy I saw at a Record Trade Show, or order yet another "Mint Copy" from Dusty Groove, if not some other Internet Seller, before landing an Official U.S.-issued Verve-Reissue -series CD...

Yes, isn't there ANYONE listening to Snoopy Dogg, Chazillionaire, Nully or --Rheeeeaaaaanonnnn... (Yes, that one is sung to the Fleetwood Mac, song there) --whose Life, The Tamba 4 can Truly Change as it had Changed Mine??!!



Dave

 

[nightcat]

Its great to see all the positive remarks for "We & The Sea". When this lp was released, it received a bad rating in Downbeat. The reviewer (who was dead wrong) said they should put shorter songs on their next lp. They actually did this on their next lp, Samba Blim and ended up with a very sterile and bland lp. But "We and The Sea" had everything "Samba Blim" did not... hard driving piano, tempo changes, drum solos, introspective, sensitive and moody melodies, creativity, mystery and the unexpected.

"O Morro" is outstanding. Their version of "Canto De Ossanha" is great, and the haunting "Moca Flor" creates a seductive mood. We And The Sea is one of my top ten favorite jazz lps of all time. If you don't have it... get it!

 

[Captain Bacardi]

When this lp was released, it received a bad rating in Downbeat.

What a difference 35 years make. When this was reissued a few years ago DownBeat gave it a glowing review and ****1/2 stars.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[JOv2]

I first found a copy in the mid '80s and was quite surprised to discover a mainstream CD release a few years back (though, by now, it may be OOP). I need to spend more time with it; but I know it's a fascinating listen. Luiz Eca's La Nueva Onda Del Brasil ['70] is an amazing Brazilian pop LP -- full of challenging and very innovative arranging. Very much worth seeking out.