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Official Review [Album]: "AS TIME GOES BY" (UICY-1060)

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by Chris May, Sep 23, 2006.


  1. ***** (BEST)

    8 vote(s)
  2. ****

    24 vote(s)
  3. ***

    24 vote(s)
  4. **

    5 vote(s)
  5. *

    2 vote(s)
  1. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

    Here's a little look in to the session from As Time Goes By; Richard, bassist Joe Osborn and Richard's long-time copyist, the late Ron Gorrow working down some of the studio magic (password: nowhere2018). Also included is the brief explanation of the master transfer on California Dreamin':

    newvillefan and John Adam like this.
  2. newvillefan

    newvillefan I Know My First Name Is Stephen

    The lead vocal he did for You're Just In Love was not done for As Time Goes By. It was recorded in 1980 at the end of the recording sessions for the TV special.
    leadmister likes this.
  3. newvillefan

    newvillefan I Know My First Name Is Stephen

    Love love love this Chris - thank you for posting it again. What a treat!
    John Adam likes this.
  4. leadmister

    leadmister Well-Known Member

    Ah OK. I didn't know that. That kinda changes my outlook on it, but it's all water under the bridge at this point, as Harry said.
  5. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Well, color me confused.
    I always believed JD had asked for ridiculous sum of money to be included
    in the release of You're Just In Love, and thus (because of that circumstance)
    Richard recorded his vocals for that song, for release of ATGB.
    How did I miss this tidbit ? Where is that documented that he recorded lead vocals
    in 1980 after recording the TV Special--the Liner Notes do not mention that.
    Now, the Liner Notes do mention that circumstance for the song
    Without A Song ( "ref vocals of K&R replacing Ella & John, cut May 13,1980").
  6. John Adam

    John Adam leis around my neck

    I share the same sentiment! TY Chris May! :)
  7. ars nova

    ars nova Active Member

    there are people that will jump at any opportunity to berate Richard. a&m chose not to release Karen's album. karen chose to continue self-destructive behavior that lead to her demise. every family has screwed-up dynamics, every business relationship has conflicts. Richard has put in a hell of a lot of time Karen's image wrapped in plastic. I am sure there a great financial inducements and probably personal facets, of which, thankfully, we will never know. those are his choices. I get really steamed that some will fault him at every turning. he did not kill karen; it seems that he tried, against her will, to protect her to the end. get off the guy's back.
    Geographer likes this.
  8. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    It's implied in the first line under "You're Just In Love", where he says:

    That, to me, says that it's the same situation from earlier in the liner notes.
  9. newvillefan

    newvillefan I Know My First Name Is Stephen

    Following Harry's earlier post, here is the full text from the official site for both songs, side by side. To my ears it's always been clear that this was a vocal from 1980 - Richard's voice sounded completely different by 1999, when he was preparing tracks for As Time Goes By.

    Without A Song

    Our fifth ABC television special, "Music, Music, Music", was videotaped on March 7, 8, and 9 of 1980 and aired on May 16. Guests included Ella Fitzgerald and John Davidson, with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra. The show opened with this 1929 standard and featured Karen, Ella, John and me. As stereophonic sound in television was still a few years away, all of the music for our specials was mixed in monaural. We were so fond of the music from this show that after videotaping was wrapped and, on our dime, Karen and I decided to remix it all in stereo and have a couple of reference disks cut for our own collections. As we were about to embark on this project, Karen thought it would be fun to sing Ella's part on Without A Song and for me to sing John's. The "refs" were cut on May 13, 1980 and up until work began on this CD, had never been heard by anyone else other than those involved.

    You're Just In Love

    Again, from "Music, Music, Music", and again with my singing John Davidson's part.
    This Irving Berlin song is from the musical Call Me Madam and was originally a hit for Perry Como and the Fontane Sisters in late 1950. Our version featured a bit of ballroom dancing in it, hence the style of instrumental break employed. The steel guitar intro may sound familiar to some listeners; I liked the figure, never thought this track would be in release, and subsequently used it in our 1981 recording Those Good Old Dreams. I imagine it's all right to steal from yourself!

    As Time Goes By - Album Notes

    I'm guessing that, because of John Davidson's royalty demands in the run up to the album's release, Richard decided it would be fun to dust off the KC/RC vocals that were never meant to see the light of day, save a chunk of money and allow the tracks to be heard at the same time. Great decision on his part and what a stroke of luck that he and Karen had decided to go to all that extra effort back in 1980 :)

    P.S. The same sessions with Karen produced his own replacement vocal on You'll Never Know.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  10. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    I'd LOVE an all Karen Ella Medley!
  11. ars nova

    ars nova Active Member

    do we know with certainty that Davidson was the problem? I would have welcomed the COMIN' THROUGH THE RYE-GOOD VIBRATIONS medley as well, but I've never read information concerning it. was there a licensing-royalty concern?
  12. newvillefan

    newvillefan I Know My First Name Is Stephen

    @Chris May can I ask where this footage was filmed? In documentaries I've seen, Richard's home studio looks similar to this but I'm not sure if it's there or a different recording studio?

    I have to say, watching the counter on the screen, if there are hours of this stuff I'd sit and watch every second of it obsessively. Amazing footage! Great to see them work their way through the bass parts for that track.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  13. newvillefan

    newvillefan I Know My First Name Is Stephen

    I've read that in several places that this was the case, I'll try and look up the source articles. I also read that royalties were also the reason that the Karen/Ella Medley was held back for release on From The Top, due to the prolonged negotiations with Ella's estate.
  14. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

    This was recorded at Capitol Records, Studio C. The original analog masters for most of this stuff were transferred over to 1" digital tape for additional overdubbing and remix. And yes, there are several hours worth of footage. Joe Osborn was testing out the Lakland signature Joe Osborn bass for [then] company head, Dan Lakin. Richard liked the bass so much that he was also gifted one by Lakland so he could occasionally "play along" at home, as he was/is very fond of Joe's playing style and technique. Most of the new bass parts recorded for that album were cut using this copy of Joe's original Fender jazz, which Richard then cited actually sounded "better" than Joe's original.
    newvillefan likes this.
  15. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Well-Known Member

    Actually it was Ella in 1991 who wanted to more money, but once she died, her estate didn’t ask as much.
  16. leadmister

    leadmister Well-Known Member

    I've also seen and heard a few times that John Davidson's camp, as well as John Denver's, were very difficult to deal with when it came to trying to license some of their parts on the specials. I believe Richard has cited, in general, that the reason the specials weren't officially released were due to these licensing issues. I believe that's a half truth though, because it is well documented that Richard is embarrassed by some of the stuff on those specials, and also believes some of it is dated.

    The studio footage of Richard and Joe rehearsing the bass parts for Nowhere Man was a blast to watch and I would relish every second of the footage they filmed if it were available for us to see in its entirety. It has given me a renewed appreciation for Richard's bass line writing abilities, as well as Joe's interpretations of them. The Lakland bass was pretty nice and recorded very well. I tried one of them out in the early 2000's, and they play and feel just like the 60's style Fender Jazz Bass, but with modern passive graphite pickups, yielding way better results when recording. This is no doubt why Richard liked it better. The $2500 price tag, though, put me off of ever wanting to acquire one. I ended up with a used Fender J for a few hundred bucks and was thoroughly satisfied with it.
  17. A&M Retro

    A&M Retro Well-Known Member

    Wow! This is awesome, Chris. Thanks for sharing it with us. If you listen closely, you'll hear Richard reveal yet another unreleased song title that was apparently dropped from the project: 'Coming Thru The Rye'. :) Sounds like there's a studio version of that in the vaults.
    newvillefan likes this.
  18. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Because it was not explicitly stated in the Liner Notes to ATGB,
    I had not believed that Richard's vocals had been recorded for You're Just In Love
    prior to the cd being prepared for release.
    2000: He writes "again with my singing John's parts"
    He does not specify that his recorded vocals occurred May 13, 1980,
    as he did specify for the song
    Without A Song.
    I always felt it sounded like a much later Richard Carpenter (not 1980,
    as I used as comparison the RC vocals heard at Karen's wedding).
  19. leadmister

    leadmister Well-Known Member

    I was under the same impression you were, GaryAlan, for a long time.
  20. Bravo!!! Thank you!!!
  21. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

    There is :)
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  22. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

    Richard's vocals were cut back in '80... just as an FYI...
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  23. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    And @Chris May, did Karen ever do the full version of Ella's parts?
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  24. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

    This one I can’t say for certain Mark. However as a producer, for a production like this you would typically (in this case) have Karen cut a full lead, as often times the final decision as to who’s going to sing what sometimes doesn’t happen until (or close to) taping. If nothing else the mix could be manipulated on the fly to suit the final arrangement. Haven’t heard the master on this one nor have I ever asked Richard.
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  25. John Adam

    John Adam leis around my neck

    Wouldn't that be nice? But I don't think so.

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