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Official Review [Album]: "CARPENTERS" S/T (SP-3502)

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by Chris May, Mar 8, 2013.


  1. ***** (BEST)

    18 vote(s)
  2. ****

    31 vote(s)
  3. ***

    7 vote(s)
  4. **

    1 vote(s)
  5. *

    1 vote(s)
  1. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Beautiful analysis, Byline!
    Nicely said, Song4u !
    Here are some quotes from Top 40 Democracy--The Rival Mainstreams of American Music (Weisbard,U Chicago Press, 2014):
    Herb Alpert "...before a distributor received one album , Jerry Moss made sure they were all paid up on the Single.
    That gave us operating cash, and, essentially that was the beginning of A&M Records
    ..." (page 120).
    Jerry Moss: " The Company really turned in 1969 on Joe Cocker...We threw everything behind him." (page 129).

    I see where, on:
    Jerry Dumphy Visits Carpenters Television interview, they are with Jack Daugherty in the Studio...when
    overdubs for Hurting Each Others are being recorded.
    Karen Carpenter: "...it took Herb Alpert, who was a musician--he's not the 'business' half of A&M--he saw what he liked musically in it,
    and didn't stop to think whether it would sell or not. He just took us because he 'dug' it
    ." (Dumphy Visits Part Three Youtube)
    Jeff likes this.
  2. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

    I "dig" it to KC...
  3. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

  4. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Question(from the official Carpenter website):
    Upon first hearing the Master Karaoke remixes years ago,
    I noticed in Rainy Days and Mondays that the string line was mixed out during the sax solo.
    This has also been a common mix on most, if not all, of the subsequent compilations.
    What was your reasoning for this?
    Richard Carpenter,
    " After repeated listenings to the original, I decided I did not like it and it wasn't needed."

    I found this question and answer interesting, to say the least.
    Listening to The Essential Collection CD, I 'hear' the Strings throughout the sax solo.
    Did Richard Carpenter have a change of heart?
    Or, am I 'hearing' the wrong thing?
  5. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

    Universal and/or Richard most likely pulled a different remix master for the inclusion in this set. Pretty common throughout the various Carpenters compilations. :)
  6. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    Agreed. There's almost no rhyme nor reason at times as to which remix or version is included in a compilation. It would be "logical" that if a song got a remix, that that remix would appear on all subsequent compilations. But it's never been that way. In fact, ESSENTIAL COLLECTION is somewhat favored because so many of the "hits" got their original mixes used, and it's a latter day compilation.

  7. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator Thread Starter

    Yes, and after thinking about it further, I think it's possible that Richard may have intentionally included a mix with the strings simply because it was more true to its original form and if this is the Essential Collection we're talking about, that pretty much fits the bill.
  8. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Although, the song notes of Essential Collection specify : remixed in 1985,
    for the song in question, Rainy Days And Mondays !
  9. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    That's right. The ESSENTIAL COLLECTION was issued in 2002, by which time the 1991 (and karaoke) remix had become the most common. But on ESSENTIAL, Richard chose to go back to his 1985 remix.

  10. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    "Paul Williams' life is full of contradictions, accomplishments, and finding a silver lining in what others would consider failure or disappointment.
    You may not immediately recognize his name, but the singer-songwriter and actor has left a huge footprint on popular culture.
    Among his long list of credits, he wrote "Rainy Days and Mondays" for The Carpenters.

    "That song has one of my favorite lines I've ever written and also my least favorite," he says,
    beaming about "What I've got they used to call the blues"
    while cringing over "Hangin' around / Nothin' to do but frown."

  11. 70sFan

    70sFan Member

    I borrowed the Carpenters LP from my neighborhood friend and immediately fell in love with it. Every song was perfect, and still is. The Bacharach-David Medly was infectious.

    I was only 11, but used my birthday money to buy the cassette at our A&S store (Smith Haven Mall on Long Island) because Sam Goody was sold out. I still have the cassette tape which had the inside portrait of Richard and Karen on the cover with their logo.

    As I grew up, I wished I had had the "envelope" L.P. version. Well, last month, in a Vermont Good Will store, I was thumbing through the L.P's section and found it for a dollar! The outside was worn but not torn and it looks great as a stand up. Oh, and by the way was L.P. was in great shape!
    LondonRobert likes this.
  12. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    This is fun to watch, a Bacharach interlude on the Make Your Own Kind of Music,
    I'm seeing this for the first time--today,2015---pure bliss:
  13. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Rainy Days And Mondays, as we are aware, appears on a (actually, two) promotional cd single (s),Copyrighted 1993 UK:
    My copy contains these tunes--with additional information,
    1.Rainy Days And Mondays,Radio Remix ( 1992, Totally Remixed and Digitally Mastered by Richard Carpenter and Roger Young)
    2.Still Crazy After All These Years (1991,Produced by Phil Ramone)
    3.Let Me Be The One ( 1971, Produced by Jack Daugherty)

    The insert states that another cd single available in 'special packaging':
    1.Rainy Days And Mondays
    2.Maybe It's You
    3.Ordinary Fool

    The cd which I have has the strings absent in the Sax Solo.
    Sound quality is superb on all three tracks.
  14. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    The strings absent??? Wow- I don't think I've ever heard that, unless the same remix appears on a different compilation and I missed it. Anyone know?
  15. Chris Mills

    Chris Mills Well-Known Member

    "Walk On By" has been edited out of the medley.

  16. newvillefan

    newvillefan I Know My First Name Is Stephen

    I saw these on sale in 1992 and snapped them both up. One was in a hard jewel case and the other was in a lovely card gatefold case with the disc in a slip inside. The artwork on it was also lovely. The remix didn't do much for me, especially as it said "totally remixed". I was expecting something other than what I heard, which to the masses probably sounded no different to the original 1985 remix that was on most compilations by that point.

    Side note to the Admins: I don't see this 1992 remix listed anywhere on the Carpenters Recording Resource page (under the list of various mixes of the song itself). The missing strings are referenced against the SACD version though.

    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
    GaryAlan likes this.
  17. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    I think there is a bit of confusion all the way around here.

    - First, the statement by Chris May in the Resource regarding strings in the sax section I believe to be wrong. The strings are missing in all 1991 versions too, not just the SACD.

    - Second, the single that the UK released in 1992 may state all kinds of things: "Radio Remix", "Totally remixed", whatever. Yes, it's a remix, but it's the 1991 remix, done, I believe, at the time of the Karaoke remix sessions. It's possible that it really was 1992 by the time he got to it, but for all intents and purposes, it's nothing different from what's on countless compilations.

    - Third, the CD single (and vinyl single) in question was released I believe because both FROM THE TOP and ONLY YESTERDAY had used the 1985 remix for "Rainy Days And Mondays". There may have been some reason that radio wanted the remix available - I don't know. I'm not that familiar with British radio. But I don't think THIS remix had been available over there at the time.

    - Fourth, in researching this, I found a VERY odd recording anomaly in the 1973 remix of the song that I'd never noticed before. It's in the section with sax solo. At about the seventh or eighth note played by the sax, there's this noise that is present, almost sounding like engineer crosstalk. It lasts about a half-second and disappears. This is only in the 1973 remix found on SINGLES 69-73 (and the rare YESTERDAY ONCE MORE from the UK). It's even there on the new Platinum version, and the SACD from Japan.

    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  18. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    [Resource updated with the info about the "Radio Remix" being the 1991 remix.]
  19. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Honolulu City Lights

    Harry it's funny because you and I talked about that "Radio Remix" in a private message. I bought that CD Single from the UK because of this special Radio Remix and actually I posted about it here on the forum, let me find that.


    Here is the thread, scroll down to see the photos I uploaded of the CD single. I believe it was determined that this was a new mix to the UK (at the time) but not necessarily an exclusive mix or anything, it was the same 91 remix. However I'm glad I still bought it.
  20. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    The confusion for me arises not through listening to the various mixes,
    but via the information printed on the disc itself:
    Copyright 1992 for Rainy Days And Mondays
    Copyright 1991 for Still Crazy After All These Years (From The Top)
    Copyright 1971 for Let Me Be The One (this version, with the 'count-off of 1-2--' as on From The Top).

    Not to mention the specific "Totally Remixed and Digitally Mastered", with an explanation that the song occurs
    in it's 'Original version' on the A&M cd Only Yesterday-Richard and Karen Carpenter's Greatest Hits."

    I do not know how these technicalities work, but why Copyright 1992, if not for the "total remix" ?
  21. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    I suggest that the copyright may be referring to UK copyrights. If this was the first time it was released in the UK, then that would make some sense. The "totally remixed" line has to be about the fact that it was in fact different from the prior issues in the UK, and the "Original Version" nomenclature is just wrong. Those two comps had the 1985 remix on them.

    CD singles were still somewhat new at this point too, particularly in the retail sector, so the "remix" stuff might have been partially marketing hype to help sell the format.

  22. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Wondering if anyone else has a copy of this 'Carpenters' on Remastered Classics cd,
    as the printing on the actual disc--directly above the Logo, is misspelled....CAREPENTERS !
  23. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    A nice bit of detail by Richard Carpenter (ref:Website) :
    " The...Bacharach/David medley is included, but not in its original form, which had additional songs, as well as longer versions of some that remained, and ran almost fifteen minutes.
    In early 1970 we were asked to guest on several nationally syndicated TV shows ... They wanted the medley, but not longer than five or six minutes.
    This involved heavy editing as well as speeding up the remaining tunes. A year later, running out of time to record, I decided to include the shortened medley in the album.
    For the rhythm track, instead of studio musicians, I used Karen and our group who, after having performed it countless times on stage, got it in one take.
    Karen and I then did all the vocals, which sound terrific and no doubt contributed to our winning a Grammy for “Outstanding Performance by a Duo, Group or Chorus” for this album. My regret is that we didn’t, I guess couldn’t, take the time and record the entire medley at the proper tempos, along with an orchestration I had fashioned. What’s on the album is very polished, but just too fast."

    My opinion....
    Saturday, Druscilla Penny and the Bacharach Medley conspire to keep this album out of my
    top tier of listening pleasure, as the three Singles (Superstar, For All We Know, Rainy Days And Mondays)
    appears to be the 'glue' which holds this album together. Simply not enough music and song for an entire album.
  24. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    Mentioned many times in past threads.
  25. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Harry ....
    Yikes ! Apologies for my laziness....a search turned up six times
    (not including my irresponsible query regarding such !).
    I need to practice a bit more due diligence.....

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