I don't recall having ever read anything about anyone from the label having heard tracks from the album before the playbacks in 1980 either. But doesn't that in itself seem very strange? This was a new venture with an artist who'd never recorded on her own now recording with a producer she'd never worked with before. Given A&M were putting money into the project (plus Karen was back in California more than once during the recording sessions), you'd expect Herb and/or Jerry to find out how it was going. It does beg the question of what exactly A&M were expecting to be recorded. Given Phil Ramone's style, the end result isn't that much of a surprise to my ears, so goodness knows what else they thought it was going to sound like.
⭐ Official Review [Album] "KAREN CARPENTER" (SP-4804/CD-0588)
- Thread starter Chris May
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I don't recall having ever read anything about anyone from the label having heard tracks from the album before the playbacks in 1980 either. But doesn't that in itself seem very strange? This was a new venture with an artist who'd never recorded on her own now recording with a producer she'd never worked with before. Given A&M were putting money into the project (plus Karen was back in California more than once during the recording sessions), you'd expect Herb and/or Jerry to find out how it was going. It does beg the question of what exactly A&M were expecting to be recorded. Given Phil Ramone's style, the end result isn't that much of a surprise to my ears, so goodness knows what else they thought it was going to sound like.
I'm not sure that the text of the Paul Simon article was ever posted here, so here it is, just in case it disappears from the web:
I interpret the actions of Paul Simon a little different than I think some folks here. Here's a legendary recording artist and composer, coming to visit another legendary artist now recording in his hometown with his producer. Paul obviously had a sense of what Karen Carpenter was about from all of the records that were put out up until this time, so I think he was saying, in sort of a fatherly/brotherly way, "Karen, what are you doing recording this stuff? It's not right for you and I and everyone else want you to succeed." Though that may have been hard to hear, I don't think Paul Simon was doing it out of malevolence, more like tough love in general concern with Karen, her situation, her direction - it just all seemed to be going the wrong way, and he, in his own way was trying to right the ship.
But - it's all speculation. I wasn't there. Words on a page can take on different meanings.
Harry
I interpret the actions of Paul Simon a little different than I think some folks here. Here's a legendary recording artist and composer, coming to visit another legendary artist now recording in his hometown with his producer. Paul obviously had a sense of what Karen Carpenter was about from all of the records that were put out up until this time, so I think he was saying, in sort of a fatherly/brotherly way, "Karen, what are you doing recording this stuff? It's not right for you and I and everyone else want you to succeed." Though that may have been hard to hear, I don't think Paul Simon was doing it out of malevolence, more like tough love in general concern with Karen, her situation, her direction - it just all seemed to be going the wrong way, and he, in his own way was trying to right the ship.
But - it's all speculation. I wasn't there. Words on a page can take on different meanings.
Harry
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Rumbahbah, I sympathize with your musings.
Pairing Karen Carpenter and Phil Ramone: Exactly, what were the expectations?
Richard Carpenter mentions Herb Alpert's query regarding A Kind of Hush LP :
words to the effect that if they (Karen and Richard)
were dissatisfied with it, perhaps an alternative choice of material was in order.
Jerry Moss suggesting a return to the "bread and butter" material, after lackluster Passage chart action.
(Also, he said they should not have attempted "Don't Cry For Me Argentina").
Awfully difficult to believe that no one kept their eye (or, rather , ear) on this solo effort.
Derided for songs like: Sing, Please Mr. Postman, or even, A Kind of Hush.....and yet, no one--at that time---
felt the necessity to keep those songs shelved.
Once again, and I reiterate my opinion,
the solo album accomplished exactly what Karen and Phil wanted it to accomplish.
Out of the Straight Jacket and into some fresh, inspiring, wardrobe!
Pairing Karen Carpenter and Phil Ramone: Exactly, what were the expectations?
Richard Carpenter mentions Herb Alpert's query regarding A Kind of Hush LP :
words to the effect that if they (Karen and Richard)
were dissatisfied with it, perhaps an alternative choice of material was in order.
Jerry Moss suggesting a return to the "bread and butter" material, after lackluster Passage chart action.
(Also, he said they should not have attempted "Don't Cry For Me Argentina").
Awfully difficult to believe that no one kept their eye (or, rather , ear) on this solo effort.
Derided for songs like: Sing, Please Mr. Postman, or even, A Kind of Hush.....and yet, no one--at that time---
felt the necessity to keep those songs shelved.
Once again, and I reiterate my opinion,
the solo album accomplished exactly what Karen and Phil wanted it to accomplish.
Out of the Straight Jacket and into some fresh, inspiring, wardrobe!
CraigGA
Well-Known Member
There are sone very good songs on this project that I listen to in rotation with other Carpenters songs. Still Crazy After All These Years, Last One Singing The Blues, I Guess I Just Lost My Head, If I Had You, If We Try and My Body Keeps Changing My Mind. None of these songs would have hurt their career, in fact, the variety may have helped.
I did miss the Carpenters vocal blend in overdubbs but the ones used here also very appealing. I also wish some of the selected songs focused more on her lower range, but still find the range used in these songs refreshing. If Jimmy Mack (although this ones does sound too high, but still useable) and Love Makin Love To You would have been included it would have rounded off my favorites.
I think that it is the non generic use of the word love that is symbolized in more sexual references is what scared them in 1979! After all, they sang a Christian song in 1970 with Love Is Surrender and Carpenters Christmas Potrait is one of their best sellers celebrating Christ at Christmas!
Maybe, a title that said, Karen visits Phil Ramone would have been a softer delivery than a self titled project that seemed to declare freedom or a move that rocked the identical music taste story that followed their press releases.
I did miss the Carpenters vocal blend in overdubbs but the ones used here also very appealing. I also wish some of the selected songs focused more on her lower range, but still find the range used in these songs refreshing. If Jimmy Mack (although this ones does sound too high, but still useable) and Love Makin Love To You would have been included it would have rounded off my favorites.
I think that it is the non generic use of the word love that is symbolized in more sexual references is what scared them in 1979! After all, they sang a Christian song in 1970 with Love Is Surrender and Carpenters Christmas Potrait is one of their best sellers celebrating Christ at Christmas!
Maybe, a title that said, Karen visits Phil Ramone would have been a softer delivery than a self titled project that seemed to declare freedom or a move that rocked the identical music taste story that followed their press releases.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Like Harry mentioned it's all speculation, Glenn is using quotes of Paul's words so after all these years, did Glenn write those quotes down and is now releasing them or is he just para-phrasing what he remembers? I went to Paul Simon's official website but there is no email for webmaster so no way to forward an email asking if this article is truly Paul Simon's words or not. I would think that if someone is going to quote Paul Simon in a published article that he better get it right but then again Paul may not even care about this matter let alone confirm or deny and then there is the thought that he may not even remember. So we will probably never know.
I will say it's rather strange that we are hearing about this for the first time in an article published Jan 2014. Why didn't Glenn publish this info while Phil Ramone was still alive? To me it's almost like trashing Karen's solo album when she is not even here to defend herself of the work she made.
I will say it's rather strange that we are hearing about this for the first time in an article published Jan 2014. Why didn't Glenn publish this info while Phil Ramone was still alive? To me it's almost like trashing Karen's solo album when she is not even here to defend herself of the work she made.
byline
Well-Known Member
I don't think the quote was used to trash Karen's album at all. Quite the opposite, IMO. Glenn uses the episode as an example of how not to treat a sensitive, gifted artist like Karen ... hence the title of that section of his article. I still wonder if this was largely supressed out of respect to Karen, but Glenn saw an opportunity to cast this episode in a sympathetic light within the context of his article. He was, after all, writing the article as a tribute to Phil Ramone's methods, and the article itself was probably inspired by Phil's passing.
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Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I should have clarified that, I didn't mean to say Glenn was trashing her solo album. The correlation I was trying to relate was the part in his article about releasing this info of what Paul Simon allegedly said after Phil passed away, where Phil or Karen can't defend that quote. Much the same how articles were written putting down Karen's solo album in 1996 when she was no longer here to defend herself. That's the correlation I meant in that last sentence.
Geographer
Well-Known Member
I dunno. I'm thinking if I were in the recording studio, I'd have said something similar like "what's the greatest voice in the 2oth century singing these songs?" I think Paul Simon might have been saying, in his less-than-tactful way, "You, Karen, are better than this crap." He couldn't be talking about the technical aspect of the project when he said it was "awful." He could only be referring to the song choices.
Given that Glenn is now a psychotherapist, it's quite likely he has put an extra psychological 'spin' on the story in order to emphasise the point he wants to make of Karen's fragile psyche being destroyed by Paul's bombshell comment and implying that this bad feedback had a direct impact on the album being shelved, which clearly cannot have been the case.
There's also a fair bit of hindsight and inaccuracy playing into his comments. Karen didn't go to New York looking for guidance and end up with Phil - she went there specifically to work with Phil. I'm sure it may have occurred to some of those in New York who she worked with that she was going through some sort of issue, but the idea that everyone knew she was extremely emotionally fragile and was starving herself to death frankly sounds absurd. Randy Schmidt's book paints Karen largely having a great time in New York during the sessions, with the exceptions of being knocked off-balance by her trips back to California. Glenn's story is just too neat in matching the point he wants to make in his article and too informed by what subsequently happened to both the solo album and Karen herself to ring true.
There's also a fair bit of hindsight and inaccuracy playing into his comments. Karen didn't go to New York looking for guidance and end up with Phil - she went there specifically to work with Phil. I'm sure it may have occurred to some of those in New York who she worked with that she was going through some sort of issue, but the idea that everyone knew she was extremely emotionally fragile and was starving herself to death frankly sounds absurd. Randy Schmidt's book paints Karen largely having a great time in New York during the sessions, with the exceptions of being knocked off-balance by her trips back to California. Glenn's story is just too neat in matching the point he wants to make in his article and too informed by what subsequently happened to both the solo album and Karen herself to ring true.
Bang!
I've always said here to listen to "Lovelines" followed by Michael Jackson's "Off The Wall". They could almost have come from the same album (except for lead singer).
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Am I the only one for whom this date, as listed on Phil Ramone's Website,
is a surprise?
I do not recall reading of this exact a date previously. (Richard Carpenter says only "recorded early 1980")
KAREN CARPENTER Loveliness [recorded May, 1980]
Source:
http://www.philramone.com/disc80s.php
(NB: I have always assumed all vocals/recording completed before May 1980.)
is a surprise?
I do not recall reading of this exact a date previously. (Richard Carpenter says only "recorded early 1980")
KAREN CARPENTER Loveliness [recorded May, 1980]
Source:
http://www.philramone.com/disc80s.php
(NB: I have always assumed all vocals/recording completed before May 1980.)
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I do recall the track 'Lovelines' being recorded in 1980. Late in the game, Karen asked Phil to come up with an upbeat number strong enough to kick off the album and this is the track he found for her. This reminds me of an interesting parallel with ABBA's 1980 album 'Super Trouper' (the name of the huge spotlights used in stadium concerts). They were almost ready to start mixing and decided to come up with one more song, something special that could be a strong album opener. They had already decided that this would be the album's title but, as Bjorn recalls, "we hadn't planned to call the new song 'Super Trouper' as well, but strangely enough, those words just happened to fit. Once we had that title it was difficult to come up with lyrics that made sense, though - imagine trying to write about a damned spotlight!".
On a separate note I think it's amazing that this thread, about an album that was aborted and shelved for 16 years, has now reached 30 pages! The love for - and debate about - Karen's one and only solo record seems stronger than ever!
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Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
We know the Carpenters newsletters were glossed over about what was really going on with Karen but in NEWSLETTER #65 - September, 1979 it says:
"In the meantime Karen has enjoyed her recording sessions in New York, and was happy to meet Billy Joel and Paul Simon. Her album is progressing well, and she anticipates it's release early in the New Year.
She returns to New York next month. All the material apart from one oldie will be original (No Disco!). Karen is unable to confirm at this time any information regarding a single from her eagerly awaited album, so keep your eyes and ears open!
She managed to combine business with pleasure and enjoyed watching a Yankee baseball game with the Ramone family, and a shopping spree at Bloomingdales."
This must have been a whole new world in New York for Karen, meeting all these recording artists who she probably thought were much bigger than her. Karen was really doing a lot in New York, she was working on an album, shopping, going to sports games, therapy, excessive walking around New York, then family and friends would visit and then all she did with Phil and Itchie Ramone. It's sad that she was not designating all her attention to just the therapy. Karen should have really took the advice of Cherry Boone O'Neil who recommended a Dr. out west that helped her. This way Karen could have taken away all the pressures of work, family and every thing and just focused on her well being.
"In the meantime Karen has enjoyed her recording sessions in New York, and was happy to meet Billy Joel and Paul Simon. Her album is progressing well, and she anticipates it's release early in the New Year.
She returns to New York next month. All the material apart from one oldie will be original (No Disco!). Karen is unable to confirm at this time any information regarding a single from her eagerly awaited album, so keep your eyes and ears open!
She managed to combine business with pleasure and enjoyed watching a Yankee baseball game with the Ramone family, and a shopping spree at Bloomingdales."
This must have been a whole new world in New York for Karen, meeting all these recording artists who she probably thought were much bigger than her. Karen was really doing a lot in New York, she was working on an album, shopping, going to sports games, therapy, excessive walking around New York, then family and friends would visit and then all she did with Phil and Itchie Ramone. It's sad that she was not designating all her attention to just the therapy. Karen should have really took the advice of Cherry Boone O'Neil who recommended a Dr. out west that helped her. This way Karen could have taken away all the pressures of work, family and every thing and just focused on her well being.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
This is speculation on my part, but the 'no disco!' wording smacks to me of the Carpenter family (in particular Richard) instructing Ev or Rosina to put this in. Why? Why make an emphatic statement in the newsletter like that when they must have heard some of the tracks already and known that some of them leaned towards that genre? As I write this I have a picture of someone with their fingers in their ears going "la la la la la!". Pure denial. It's sobering to read this now with hindsight because it's almost as if they let Karen carry on with this project knowing all along it didn't stand a hope in hell of being approved and released.
song4u
Well-Known Member
She wasn't getting therapy at this time. That was in 1982 I believe. We just wish she had!
Record labels(and recording artists) tell the public what they want the public to know.They have the right to decide what information they want to reveal to the public.The "real story" might be information that the label or artist feels should be kept behind closed doors.
The VOTH album cover was taken the first week of February,1980.
The record label accepts or rejects the finished album when it is delivered to the label.Every album delivered gets a customary "playback session" with the artist,producer and label chiefs present.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Was this 'Album" in its completed ('finished') form when the songs were presented for playback?
After all, "Last One Singing The Blues" is touted in the Liner Notes as an uncompleted track...one
of many which might have been (Phil Ramone).
Simply listening to (all of) the other unreleased songs shows me how much of an opportunity was missed.
Compare Karen Carpenter's interpretations (for example) of the two Paul Simon songs:
I Do It For Your Love and Still Crazy After All These Years.
They both sound fine--when Karen sings them-- to my ears. Fresh Arrangements, both.
Make Believe It's Your First Time, how can that be ignored? Shelved for 17 years?
(Oh, Yes! I remember this song is so bad that Richard had Karen re-cut the song during the Made In America sessions....)
Something's Missing....certainly huge potential on this unfinished track. (Why is this locked away?)
Lovelines, If We Try, Remember When Loving Took All Night, My Body Keeps Changing My Mind: All Single- Worthy. Spirited Readings.
If I Had You, hard to argue with the hit-potential there. (Oh, Yes! it was a minor hit in 1989..with little to no promotion).
All Because of You, the vocal acrobatics on this song are incredible.
And, there is so much more !
Love Makin' Love to You,
Keep My Lovelight Burning,
Midnight,
It's Really You (It's Really Me),
Jimmy Mack,
Truly You ,
Don't Try to Win Me Back Again
Awfully hard to fathom that the completed album could not be salvaged into a workable enterprise.
Actually, I find it incredible.
Absolutely incomprehensible that this 'album' was summarily dismissed.
Shame on everyone (or, anyone) involved with that decision.
A travesty.
Karen (and Richard) really loved "Goofus".....I did not hear of anyone trying to shelve that song.
(Oh, how I do love the song, but, single material it is not).
Did anyone raise their ire, or wave a caution flag , when they (Carpenters) cut and released Beechwood 4-5789 ?
The standard by which Carpenters' material was given the go-ahead was not the same standard used for solo Karen Carpenter.
Their are gems to be found on each and every album that Karen Carpenter recorded. Including the Solo effort.
And, likewise, many Carpenters' songs are deemed forgettable (not by me), perhaps the same with some on the solo effort.
Still, Karen Carpenter? How does one contemplate ignoring her vocal acrobatics on any song?
(The real story?: If Richard Carpenter had said it was "Sh..", then we all know this album wasn't going anywhere.)
After all, "Last One Singing The Blues" is touted in the Liner Notes as an uncompleted track...one
of many which might have been (Phil Ramone).
Simply listening to (all of) the other unreleased songs shows me how much of an opportunity was missed.
Compare Karen Carpenter's interpretations (for example) of the two Paul Simon songs:
I Do It For Your Love and Still Crazy After All These Years.
They both sound fine--when Karen sings them-- to my ears. Fresh Arrangements, both.
Make Believe It's Your First Time, how can that be ignored? Shelved for 17 years?
(Oh, Yes! I remember this song is so bad that Richard had Karen re-cut the song during the Made In America sessions....)
Something's Missing....certainly huge potential on this unfinished track. (Why is this locked away?)
Lovelines, If We Try, Remember When Loving Took All Night, My Body Keeps Changing My Mind: All Single- Worthy. Spirited Readings.
If I Had You, hard to argue with the hit-potential there. (Oh, Yes! it was a minor hit in 1989..with little to no promotion).
All Because of You, the vocal acrobatics on this song are incredible.
And, there is so much more !
Love Makin' Love to You,
Keep My Lovelight Burning,
Midnight,
It's Really You (It's Really Me),
Jimmy Mack,
Truly You ,
Don't Try to Win Me Back Again
Awfully hard to fathom that the completed album could not be salvaged into a workable enterprise.
Actually, I find it incredible.
Absolutely incomprehensible that this 'album' was summarily dismissed.
Shame on everyone (or, anyone) involved with that decision.
A travesty.
Karen (and Richard) really loved "Goofus".....I did not hear of anyone trying to shelve that song.
(Oh, how I do love the song, but, single material it is not).
Did anyone raise their ire, or wave a caution flag , when they (Carpenters) cut and released Beechwood 4-5789 ?
The standard by which Carpenters' material was given the go-ahead was not the same standard used for solo Karen Carpenter.
Their are gems to be found on each and every album that Karen Carpenter recorded. Including the Solo effort.
And, likewise, many Carpenters' songs are deemed forgettable (not by me), perhaps the same with some on the solo effort.
Still, Karen Carpenter? How does one contemplate ignoring her vocal acrobatics on any song?
(The real story?: If Richard Carpenter had said it was "Sh..", then we all know this album wasn't going anywhere.)
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Karen's album was finished when it was presented to A&M. The outtake you mention will have been put aside during the recording process whilst other tracks made it right through to completion, mixing and inclusion on what Karen and Phil considered the finished product. I think they got it pretty right with the outtakes for the most part, they're weak and Karen is singing too high on most of them. The only hidden gems for me are 'Something's Missing' and 'Love Makin' Love To You'.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Stephen, I certainly agree that there are high-notes to be found amongst the solo songs.
However, and I still believe, that the song "Now" is performed in a too-high vocal range.
"Because We Are In Love" also has a higher range of notes, when compared to the less-frequently occurring lower notes.
The higher notes seem to flow easier with the upbeat-tempo songs. (IMHO)
Seemingly, this was the direction in which Karen chose to sing at this juncture.
Even if (some of) the outtakes are tossed out, there is plenty to captivate the listener.
However, and I still believe, that the song "Now" is performed in a too-high vocal range.
"Because We Are In Love" also has a higher range of notes, when compared to the less-frequently occurring lower notes.
The higher notes seem to flow easier with the upbeat-tempo songs. (IMHO)
Seemingly, this was the direction in which Karen chose to sing at this juncture.
Even if (some of) the outtakes are tossed out, there is plenty to captivate the listener.
Don Malcolm
Well-Known Member
Sorry to so severely boil down a very provocative and passionately argued post, but I think this excerpt is the crux of the issue for sure. And it probably had developed into such a situation due to the ongoing disparity in the group's public perception--and by that I mean both the sniping from the hard-rock critical contingent and the unequal adulation that had pushed Richard to the background. Behind the scenes, there was clearly a set of multi-faceted tensions at work that were extremely difficult (if not impossible) to reconcile and resolve.
We can only imagine how much fear had built up around the prospect of Karen's solo album and what might happen if it was a success. I think it's not unfair to characterize it as a form of hysteria, and it definitely outweighed any fear of failure--after all, the Carpenters had been dealing with a career slump for several years at this point. That dictated what was clearly an unfair application of standards and what had to be a cruel, extremely dispiriting decision process (read: power play) as regards the solo record.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Nicely distilled, Malcolm.
I surmise: if the solo album had been in the same vein, as say, Horizon,
it would still have been shelved. (Albeit, it would not have remained there for 17 years.)
Then again, and 'everyone' (record exec.'s) must have known,--this album was not going to be in the 'same vein' as Carpenters material.
John Bettis, in the recent interview, believes that if the record company had thought they had a monster-seller on their hands,
then the solo album would have been released (in 1980) no matter what. ( Obviously, I disagree).
This, I do not accept, as an answer as to 'Why it was shelved for 17 years'.
Then, why also no Carpenter-Bettis compositions offered to Karen specifically for her project.
There are some outstanding musical things on much of the solo album:
excellent drumming, Rod Temperton's arrangements, some very good songs,
nice Karen Carpenter overdubs, meaningful lyrical content, and an
opportunity to listen to different vocal acrobatics by Karen Carpenter.
Arrangements, over-all, are well-done.
There simply isn't enough reason to shelve the entire project.
Once Richard Carpenter was ready to return to the fold, Karen's project took a backseat.
(Not doing a downer on Richard Carpenter, that's simply the excuse that has been given as official.)
She never had a proper chance with this entire project from day one.
(Wanting/Asking for Richard's blessing? before flying to NY for recording sessions).
She is (The) Karen Carpenter, she does not need anyone's blessing to record anything.
I surmise: if the solo album had been in the same vein, as say, Horizon,
it would still have been shelved. (Albeit, it would not have remained there for 17 years.)
Then again, and 'everyone' (record exec.'s) must have known,--this album was not going to be in the 'same vein' as Carpenters material.
John Bettis, in the recent interview, believes that if the record company had thought they had a monster-seller on their hands,
then the solo album would have been released (in 1980) no matter what. ( Obviously, I disagree).
This, I do not accept, as an answer as to 'Why it was shelved for 17 years'.
Then, why also no Carpenter-Bettis compositions offered to Karen specifically for her project.
There are some outstanding musical things on much of the solo album:
excellent drumming, Rod Temperton's arrangements, some very good songs,
nice Karen Carpenter overdubs, meaningful lyrical content, and an
opportunity to listen to different vocal acrobatics by Karen Carpenter.
Arrangements, over-all, are well-done.
There simply isn't enough reason to shelve the entire project.
Once Richard Carpenter was ready to return to the fold, Karen's project took a backseat.
(Not doing a downer on Richard Carpenter, that's simply the excuse that has been given as official.)
She never had a proper chance with this entire project from day one.
(Wanting/Asking for Richard's blessing? before flying to NY for recording sessions).
She is (The) Karen Carpenter, she does not need anyone's blessing to record anything.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Tangentially:
I came across a copy of the LP Too Hot To Handle (1977 CBS Records, #11 US Charts) by HeatWave.
Keyboards by Rod Temperton and All titles composed by Rod Temperton.
I gave it a quick once over.
Interesting album, not necessarily my 'cup of tea'......but,
this album makes me realize all the more how very good Karen's solo album really is,
here, her first (and only) solo outing--- especially when stacked against music in the same, or adjoining, genre.
Her album really is that good. What else can I say that I haven't already said.
Bold, gutsy, brilliant move into different musical territory.
I came across a copy of the LP Too Hot To Handle (1977 CBS Records, #11 US Charts) by HeatWave.
Keyboards by Rod Temperton and All titles composed by Rod Temperton.
I gave it a quick once over.
Interesting album, not necessarily my 'cup of tea'......but,
this album makes me realize all the more how very good Karen's solo album really is,
here, her first (and only) solo outing--- especially when stacked against music in the same, or adjoining, genre.
Her album really is that good. What else can I say that I haven't already said.
Bold, gutsy, brilliant move into different musical territory.
Jeff
Well-Known Member
Gary, I'm proud of you! I immensely appreciate your research and reflections. As far as I'm concerned this topic KAREN CARPENTER has only juzzzzt begun. So much to review, learn, appreciate and on....a different skew with all input. Absolutely captivating for this creature. Spellbound! The more research into the birth, production, fatal blow and imminent release of this art piece appears to demand just that...more research. The tried-n-true folks that offer thought provoking and extraordinary perception concerning the solo effort fuel this quandary. All of this energy shall bring a greater appreciation of the art KAREN CARPENTER dared canvas. Regardless of chartings, key changes, producer choices, alignment of the stars and all the subsequent oppression, there's a fundamental lesson in Karen's music making afoot. Again, the ties that bind a songs expression and artist. I'm fascinated on this quest understanding intoxication. As tho lights are going on at revelations. What was concerning or enchanting Karen at any given time in the studio? Powerless to resist as Karen draws breath...exhales magic. I'm drawn, bound in aural ligature and helpless from note to note. The courage to be so desperately vulnerable so often represented album to album. For me there is something cathartic at singing. However, I'm constantly guarded sharing my innermost. Karen conveyed same at the I NEED TO BE IN LOVE performances. I can't detail the exact quote here although I'm certain my friend Chris an O.F. could substantiate this tid-bit so very telling.
Above stated topic KAREN CARPENTER has only flickered when a glow it deserves. So quick to critique are the armchair label guy wannabees. Discussing the creation, motivation, resistance to, success of venture, a far greater interest doncha think? Karen Carpenter the chanteuse who bore KAREN CARPENTER is a must study. I'm finding the two entities one. Focus the amount of and perfection achieved in the 'vocal acrobatics' alone. A stellar achievement embarked upon long before auto-tune. Karen didn't need auto-tune. Lets discuss that brilliant ear. Yes yes and yes yes yes Richard was and is brilliant. A genius detailed exquisitely in the CarpenterS catalog. But Karen's angst expressed musically could be reproduced in the shower no matter how brilliant Richard was and continues to be. The CarpenterS sound Rich created and has inferred stolen by Phil and Karen in New York sounds grandiose to this observer. Richard's brainchild did garner 3 well-deserved grammys and certain is the fact many more would be presented. To say Karen stole the sound her brother developed is saying she took and recorded the angst he created or was it hers to channel in voice? Ownership of Karen. The tyranny and arrogance exhibited for all when a little gal's just trying to put some words to music. Hit or no hit the expressionism is a success in and of itself. Allowing an unworthiness campaign to flourish was criminal and evidently fatal. So fancy this y'all, when Karen carpenter says that KAREN CARPENTER was a fu**ing great album!!! What facets do we think she referred? I very much love MADE IN AMERICA but I've yet to see or hear Karen quoted saying same with that outing. The solo event was a daring new territory. I'm not speaking to the nonsensical explicit lyrics defense either. The album stands out with an air, body & life of its own. Worthy of respect. It's intrinsic creative value merits postings galore and ravings of marvel. Stepping back from the Richard crud and the Agnes nuisance and the A&M power-team and Michael Jackson's pet monkey Deliverance or what was his name? Anyway, let's examine KAREN CARPENTER and its showman/womanship. It's delivery despite and during near doom. The essence captured in that sound booth. A hallmark and testament to courage, blossoming free-spirited expressionism.
Well, that's 'nough. Gotta go make some roasted Brussels Sprouts for Mr. Man.
You get where I'm goin with this or are we still on page one???
Jeff
Above stated topic KAREN CARPENTER has only flickered when a glow it deserves. So quick to critique are the armchair label guy wannabees. Discussing the creation, motivation, resistance to, success of venture, a far greater interest doncha think? Karen Carpenter the chanteuse who bore KAREN CARPENTER is a must study. I'm finding the two entities one. Focus the amount of and perfection achieved in the 'vocal acrobatics' alone. A stellar achievement embarked upon long before auto-tune. Karen didn't need auto-tune. Lets discuss that brilliant ear. Yes yes and yes yes yes Richard was and is brilliant. A genius detailed exquisitely in the CarpenterS catalog. But Karen's angst expressed musically could be reproduced in the shower no matter how brilliant Richard was and continues to be. The CarpenterS sound Rich created and has inferred stolen by Phil and Karen in New York sounds grandiose to this observer. Richard's brainchild did garner 3 well-deserved grammys and certain is the fact many more would be presented. To say Karen stole the sound her brother developed is saying she took and recorded the angst he created or was it hers to channel in voice? Ownership of Karen. The tyranny and arrogance exhibited for all when a little gal's just trying to put some words to music. Hit or no hit the expressionism is a success in and of itself. Allowing an unworthiness campaign to flourish was criminal and evidently fatal. So fancy this y'all, when Karen carpenter says that KAREN CARPENTER was a fu**ing great album!!! What facets do we think she referred? I very much love MADE IN AMERICA but I've yet to see or hear Karen quoted saying same with that outing. The solo event was a daring new territory. I'm not speaking to the nonsensical explicit lyrics defense either. The album stands out with an air, body & life of its own. Worthy of respect. It's intrinsic creative value merits postings galore and ravings of marvel. Stepping back from the Richard crud and the Agnes nuisance and the A&M power-team and Michael Jackson's pet monkey Deliverance or what was his name? Anyway, let's examine KAREN CARPENTER and its showman/womanship. It's delivery despite and during near doom. The essence captured in that sound booth. A hallmark and testament to courage, blossoming free-spirited expressionism.
Well, that's 'nough. Gotta go make some roasted Brussels Sprouts for Mr. Man.
You get where I'm goin with this or are we still on page one???
Jeff
Vinylalbumcovers
Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
Hear the vocal arrangements? Sound familiar? LOL! He was doing the same thing here he would do with Karen a few years later; he just used Johnnie Wilder, Jr. to do it. Temperton's style was already well-established by the time he hooked up with Karen. For Richard to declare Rod's vocal arrangements as "Carpenter-esque" is just silly.
Ed
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