⭐ Official Review [Album] "KAREN CARPENTER" (SP-4804/CD-0588)

HOW WOULD YOU RATE THIS ALBUM?

  • ***** (BEST)

    Votes: 9 17.3%
  • ****

    Votes: 13 25.0%
  • ***

    Votes: 19 36.5%
  • **

    Votes: 9 17.3%
  • *

    Votes: 2 3.8%

  • Total voters
    52
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From all I've heard and read, the Orange Coast magazine take on it is definitely wrong. There's no way the label encouraged Karen to go back and continue. If anyone stepped in and continued to flog what many thought was a dead horse, that person was Quincy Jones. I'd love to hear his take on events and more about his involvement at that very late stage in the game. I don't recall him ever speaking about his part in this during interviews I've seen or read with him.
Quincy remixed some of the tracks-and subsequently had a meeting with Herb Alpert and Derek Green at A&M,urging them to release the album. This was probably the final event on the solo album timeline before it was officially shelved.
 
Excerpted from the New York Times Article,
Karen Carpenter's Second Life
Published: October 6, 1996
-----
"They finally finished in January 1980, delivering 11 of the 21 songs they recorded."
-----
"Alpert remembers liking the album but not loving it."
-----
"Ramone set up another listening at the home of Quincy Jones, but A&M wouldn't budge."


A Few Questions come to mind:
(If) Album finished in January and aborted May 5th ,
(1) What events transpired between these two dates? What went on 'behind the scenes' , if you will ?
(2) I'd love to ask Mr. Alpert how he would describe his initial reaction to the Kind of Hush Album. Did he love that?
(3) What transpired 'at the home of Quincy Jones' ? What were the listeners' reactions at his home ?
 
(If) Album finished in January and aborted May 5th ,
(1) What events transpired between these two dates? What went on 'behind the scenes' , if you will ?

Karen's solo photo shoot took place late January/early February and they started work on Music, Music, Music in March 1980, so that will have kept them busy recording and shooting the special throughout March and April. Karen also met Tom Burris in April 1980, so I'm sure that was quite a distraction as well, given how much of a whirlwind romance that was. By early May, the special was ready for release and aired May 16, 1980 (not even two weeks after her solo album had been cancelled).

It's sad and quite telling that Karen's album was shoved aside for over four months from the date it was completed. It's almost as if A&M wanted to leave it long enough that it would warrant them turning round all that time later and saying "oh it's not worth bothering with that now".
 
Karen also met Tom Burris in April 1980, so I'm sure that was quite a distraction as well, given how much of a whirlwind romance that was.

And not to add insult to injury with regard to the overall contradiction in details, but in the Sue Lawley interview Karen states that she met Tom in '79. With as much respect as I have for Richard and Karen and the entire Carpenters unit, I have never been more irritated with the lack of ability on an artist's part to either keep details straight, or just be honest and/or consistent in the overall "storytelling" - mostly on Richard's part. It just seems that you ask the same question three different times, you get three different answers. Granted, sometimes all correct and just seemingly different based on one's perspective. But nonetheless, I don't know what it is about the Carpenters' overall timeline with regard to details, as it seems full of contradictions on things that just shouldn't be.
 
(2) I'd love to ask Mr. Alpert how he would describe his initial reaction to the Kind of Hush Album. Did he love that?

There was a big difference between the time of A KIND OF HUSH and Karen's solo album. The albums and events did not occur in a vacuum. Carpenters had just come off of HORIZON, a hit album that contained two top ten hits and a top twenty hit. And these came following their monster run in the earlier part of the decade. So when you (A&M) sit down to listen to A KIND OF HUSH, you might find yourself wondering where the hits are - or you might assume that the title track will perform similarly to "Please Mr. Postman" - and it almost does, ultimately performing better than "Solitaire." You can hear "I Need To Be In Love" and perhaps think it might be another single, and another win for the Carpenter-Bettis writing team (who write for "Almo Music" and "Hammer and Nails Publishing", both publishing arms of A&M).

If you're Herb Alpert, you grew up in the 30s and 40s, so a fresh take on an old chestnut like "Goofus" might raise a smile, and might even be part of the impetus to ultimately release THAT as a single.

Now, with the solo album times are way different. Carpenters haven't had a top ten hit since "Please Mr. Postman". Their HUSH album performed decently but a slide trend could be seen. PASSAGE did even poorer and cost a fortune. Their surprise for A&M was the CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT album, which was also pricey to produce, but performed reasonably well for a seasonal in its initial release.

Meanwhile, the powers that be are looking at Karen getting sicker looking, Richard suffering from his Quaaludes addiction, and have to be very concerned about their cash cow. And make no mistake about it, they WERE the cash cow at the time. So it was no time for them to be sick.

So you give them time off to recharge. Richard goes his way to clear up his addiction. Karen goes off with the company's blessing to New York to work with Phil Ramone. At that point, you're hoping that something good will come out of all of it. Richard proclaims he's healthy and ready to get back in the game. So you believe him based on his earlier performance for the label. He and his sister were hit-making machines in the early part of the decade and kept your label afloat through some lean times.

So who do you trust? Richard, who claims he's ready to jump-start Carpenters and roll the hit machine, or Karen's solo album. She's still not healthy looking and the music doesn't grab you. Some of it's OK, but a lot of it isn't of the melodic type of music that Herb prefers. So that's what I think he meant by liking it but not loving it.

So, do you break up your cash cow and take a gamble on something you're not totally sold on, or do your gut instincts tell you to go with Richard's plan of getting the ship righted and back to hit territory? Can he and the Carpenter family help Karen with her health issues?

Now mix in all of the other stuff going on: TV specials, dating and upcoming weddings, and you've got a very unstable set of circumstances regardless of the exact timings of these events.

And, as I've said before, no amount of whining or complaining is ever going to get that solo album released in 1980. It didn't happen. It's never gonna be that way. Wish it all you want - it still gets released in 1996. You have your copy - I have mine. The world wasn't beaten back by it, and it remains a footnote in the Carpenters canon along with Richard's solo stuff. The whole was very much greater than the sum of its parts.

Harry
 
Apologies, by the way, as part of the Herb Alpert quote from the New York Times Article did not fully render:
"Alpert remembers liking the album but not loving it. ''It just didn't ring my bell the way a Carpenters album would,'' he says between heavy pauses."

I might note, I have no issues regarding whether the album was issued/released in 1980--or, 1996.
(From 1980-1985, I had no idea this album existed, let alone that Karen had worked on a solo album.).
I merely note that there is a quote about the Hush album (Coleman,page 211) attributed to Mr. Alpert to Richard (..."not up to their standard.").

If bringing information to the fore regarding the totality of events surrounding this album is addressed as "whining or complaining",
then, I ask, of what purpose is there to having any histiographic discussion whatsoever ?
The music of Carpenters, of Richard, of Karen, is there for all to listen to and enjoy. That will remain, forever.
However, I might add, the particulars regarding their entire career is not there.
Far too many inconsistencies.
I intend no malice--and hold none--
I ask questions, seek answers and information, and
(hopefully) offer reliable source material to accompany my
(perhaps: ignorant and irritating !) thought processes.

Thusly, I do plead guilty!
 
Personal Anecdote:
The connotation (above) of Karen's solo album (or, Richard's, for the matter)
as "... a footnote in the Carpenters' canon.." is quite misleading, if not, misrepresenting the entirety of their output.
Now, my (partial) justification for my assertion.....
In 1930 was published a famous "canon" among textbooks, Principles of Quantum Mechanics (Dirac, Oxford).
In 1933, in a journal paper, within which a "footnote" taken from the 1930 publication, Dirac suggested
a certain formulaic analogue of Classical to Quantum Theory.
In 1942, Richard Feynman took this 'forgotten' footnote, and elaborated upon it in his Ph.D. Dissertation.
In 1965, Feynman Won the Nobel Prize in Physics for his work in Quantum Electrodynamics, work stemming
from his dissertation--itself , stemming from Nobel Winner Dirac's original 1930 'footnote'.
In 1974, Stephen Hawking used such methods to uncover the Statistical Mechanical anologies in Black Hole Physics.

Since that time,the methods employed by all of these Physicists (first Dirac, then Feynman, then Hawking) has
occupied a preeminent place in all modern textbooks.
An obscure "footnote" expanded thus,from 1930 to the present day, is used daily in Physics research and technology.
Thus,I do not downplay "footnotes",
Who knows where they might lead ?
 
There was a big difference between the time of A KIND OF HUSH and Karen's solo album. The albums and events did not occur in a vacuum. Carpenters had just come off of HORIZON, a hit album that contained two top ten hits and a top twenty hit. And these came following their monster run in the earlier part of the decade. So when you (A&M) sit down to listen to A KIND OF HUSH, you might find yourself wondering where the hits are - or you might assume that the title track will perform similarly to "Please Mr. Postman" - and it almost does, ultimately performing better than "Solitaire." You can hear "I Need To Be In Love" and perhaps think it might be another single, and another win for the Carpenter-Bettis writing team (who write for "Almo Music" and "Hammer and Nails Publishing", both publishing arms of A&M).

If you're Herb Alpert, you grew up in the 30s and 40s, so a fresh take on an old chestnut like "Goofus" might raise a smile, and might even be part of the impetus to ultimately release THAT as a single.

Now, with the solo album times are way different. Carpenters haven't had a top ten hit since "Please Mr. Postman". Their HUSH album performed decently but a slide trend could be seen. PASSAGE did even poorer and cost a fortune. Their surprise for A&M was the CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT album, which was also pricey to produce, but performed reasonably well for a seasonal in its initial release.

Meanwhile, the powers that be are looking at Karen getting sicker looking, Richard suffering from his Quaaludes addiction, and have to be very concerned about their cash cow. And make no mistake about it, they WERE the cash cow at the time. So it was no time for them to be sick.

So you give them time off to recharge. Richard goes his way to clear up his addiction. Karen goes off with the company's blessing to New York to work with Phil Ramone. At that point, you're hoping that something good will come out of all of it. Richard proclaims he's healthy and ready to get back in the game. So you believe him based on his earlier performance for the label. He and his sister were hit-making machines in the early part of the decade and kept your label afloat through some lean times.

So who do you trust? Richard, who claims he's ready to jump-start Carpenters and roll the hit machine, or Karen's solo album. She's still not healthy looking and the music doesn't grab you. Some of it's OK, but a lot of it isn't of the melodic type of music that Herb prefers. So that's what I think he meant by liking it but not loving it.

So, do you break up your cash cow and take a gamble on something you're not totally sold on, or do your gut instincts tell you to go with Richard's plan of getting the ship righted and back to hit territory? Can he and the Carpenter family help Karen with her health issues?

Now mix in all of the other stuff going on: TV specials, dating and upcoming weddings, and you've got a very unstable set of circumstances regardless of the exact timings of these events.

And, as I've said before, no amount of whining or complaining is ever going to get that solo album released in 1980. It didn't happen. It's never gonna be that way. Wish it all you want - it still gets released in 1996. You have your copy - I have mine. The world wasn't beaten back by it, and it remains a footnote in the Carpenters canon along with Richard's solo stuff. The whole was very much greater than the sum of its parts.

Harry

WOW! Very well said...
 
I might note, I have no issues regarding whether the album was issued/released in 1980--or, 1996.

Based on your posts, I find this hard to believe. My personal opinion is that you have huge issues about it and is the reason that you consistently bring the subject up. I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't, but it's obvious that the subject weighs heavily on your mind.

Otherwise, why bring up the subject of A KIND OF HUSH, place it in the solo album thread, and use the words "love that" as a contrast to the reaction to the solo album?

By the way, you'll have to pardon my own irritability today as I'm suffering from an annoying head cold, so these kind of posts can easily "set me off."

Harry
 
Karen must have been pretty impressed to have someone as big as Quincey Jones in the business to be mixing her tracks and going to bat for her with A&M.

Harry enjoyed reading that...you need to have more head colds. :laugh:
Seriously I can understand all that.
 
Thanks for the elaboration, Harry.
I do appreciate your response.
I empathize with your 'head-cold suffering', and, do hope all improves!
Please, I beseech of you, accept my words when I say "I have no issues about it".
Questions, yes !
(Is that to be frowned upon? If so, please tell me and I will cease inquiries.)
Issues ?, well,....I suppose that depends on how the word is defined in this context.
I merely noted, and have (guilty as charged) so often pointed out that the extant
materials available give varying degrees of information depending upon who, what, when and where,
the questions and answers have arisen--throughout the years.
(Not, simply, as of 2015.)
I try to place myself 'in the time period' 1979-1980, even the year 1996.
I am merely trying to collate, if not collaborate, substantiate (?)
the information as it exists, such as it is.
Not making any preconceived judgments upon anybody.
Simply an exercise in asking questions.
Again, long-term Carpenters fan I am--not some uneducated, opinionated hack.
 
I don't know what it is about the Carpenters' overall timeline with regard to details, as it seems full of contradictions on things that just shouldn't be.

The biggest contradictions of all being around the reason Karen's album was shelved. Ironic that you made your observation in this thread of all threads Chris!
 
Arguably, the events surrounding Karen's solo album is the most interesting aspect of the Carpenters career.
 
Arguably, the events surrounding Karen's solo album is the most interesting aspect of the Carpenters career.

Absolutely would agree with that and not just because it's this thread. For the hardcore fans, the solo album is really divisive and elicits emotion, passion and ambivalence in equal measure depending on which side of the fence you sit on, more so than any other shelved project by another artist that I can think of.
 
Harry,
One of the reasons I did broach (mention) the Kind of Hush album, was merely due to the fact that it is
the only other album wherein I have a "quote" from Mr. Herb Alpert in regards its content.
There are few elaborations upon Carpenters' albums in the Coleman Biography, specifically,attributed to
Herb Alpert ; however, there is that One quote regarding Hush album along with the negative material about the solo venture.
That is the only reason I coupled the two albums ' in toto'.
There are no other quoted sources for me to compare and work with.
(Again, this extracted out of Coleman and coupled with the New York Times Article).

Your post delineates many fine points. I greatly appreciate that input.
(Especially: "Do You break up your Cash Cow and take a gamble?")
That line--from your post--accentuates the entirety of what I was driving at; is it all about the
money? Where does the musical aspect come in? For A&M Carpenters=Cash, at all costs?

And, not only does it make sense, I agree with much of your analysis !
I have the greatest respect and admiration for Herb Alpert , Jerry Moss, and Richard Carpenter.
However, I suppose where we diverge is my contention that a complete,accurate, History of the Carpenters' Career
includes, not only the unambiguous -- the strokes of brilliance-- but, also, those aspects which
are less than memorable and still somewhat ambiguous.

If it be that Questioning these Historical Sources is frowned upon;
If the record be as cut and dry as your mini-synopsis presents (and quite nicely, at that !);
then, I am thrilled beyond measure with your satisfaction of the documentation of
these historical events. That's great.
However, and again I suppose it's the Physicist in me,
Questioning --always seeking more, searching--
is simply part and parcel of my nature.
Absolutely no malcontent is intended by my discussion.
 
Well stated.

And in answer to your question - yes - it is ALWAYS about money. No one is in business to make art. Many artists don't care about money, but that's a different thing entirely. Karen and Richard didn't spent their time "looking for a record deal" just to make art. They were looking for success, which means money. They wanted to sell as many records as they could, and that's why they spent all that time touring - to promote more record sales. That's why a Carpenter-Bettis tune invariably ended up on b-sides to singles. It's always about the money. But for an artist, the avenue to getting the money is the art - making the best records possible. Make a great record and the money should follow.

And it's not an easy business. The public is fickle. One minute you're an idol, the next day you're a has-been. It really does happen just about overnight in many cases. And turnarounds also happen. Has-beens have been known to come back from obscurity with a big hit or two as they reclaim their fame. Neil Sedaka is a good example. Hitmaker extraordinaire in the sixties. Was a nobody in the early seventies, and ultimately was back at number one with "Laughter In The Rain".

I have a feeling that Herb, Jerry, etc., figured that Carpenters were due for that renaissance, but could clearly see that the solo album was not the route to that goal. If anything, releasing it might have put a further delay in launching Carpenters back to the charts - and making money!

Harry
 
With regard to the timeline changing frequently, I chalk that up more to the fact that they had so much going on musically and personally in their lives during that time. Add to that fatigue, illness, and Karen having lived bi-coastally in the midst of it all, it's no wonder Karen couldn't keep it straight. Richard had been in rehab and getting his life back on track, and wasn't yet able to go back to living in his own home. So I don't think it's an intentional thing. If I were living their lives, even as young as they were, if I didn't have my notes handy I don't think I'd keep it all straight either. :rolleyes:
 
Karen had some really good songs on the solo project and written by some of the best in that era. She was seeking the material that defined the period as Richard did when he chose Paul Williams and Leon Russell in the early 70's! But it was Karen's voice that popularized Richard's efforts and I believe that same voice could have had the same results with Phil's efforts if marketed correctly. I also feel that the solo experience shows its feet in some of the material recorded during the Made in America sessions. I have always felt that the two worlds could co-exist and the choice of one over the other did not have to happen, but I am not in the marketing world of the music business, so my opinion is meek in value. At the end of it all, I am so thankful for the TV special Music, Music, Music for it showcases Carpenters at their best! Even though I enjoy Made in America it was not A Song For You, but some of the solo project is!
 
LOVE to hear those remixes! Have you, mr J.? If so, please describe them.
No-I haven't. Probably very few people have heard them.

This was a situation where one producer was trying to improve another producer's work.And,producer #2 probably wasn't happy that producer #1 was given the opportunity to do that.
 
Karen's solo photo shoot took place late January/early February and they started work on Music, Music, Music in March 1980, so that will have kept them busy recording and shooting the special throughout March and April. Karen also met Tom Burris in April 1980, so I'm sure that was quite a distraction as well, given how much of a whirlwind romance that was. By early May, the special was ready for release and aired May 16, 1980 (not even two weeks after her solo album had been cancelled).

It's sad and quite telling that Karen's album was shoved aside for over four months from the date it was completed. It's almost as if A&M wanted to leave it long enough that it would warrant them turning round all that time later and saying "oh it's not worth bothering with that now".
Some of your details aren't quite accurate: the timeframe between initial playback and the official shelve date was about three months.And,the album being officially shelved on May 5 was just a formality-A&M already made their decision in February.

Music,Music,Music was recorded & taped the first two weeks of March.
 
Excerpted from the New York Times Article,
Karen Carpenter's Second Life
Published: October 6, 1996
-----
"They finally finished in January 1980, delivering 11 of the 21 songs they recorded."
-----
"Alpert remembers liking the album but not loving it."
-----
"Ramone set up another listening at the home of Quincy Jones, but A&M wouldn't budge."


A Few Questions come to mind:
(If) Album finished in January and aborted May 5th ,
(1) What events transpired between these two dates? What went on 'behind the scenes' , if you will ?
(2) I'd love to ask Mr. Alpert how he would describe his initial reaction to the Kind of Hush Album. Did he love that?
(3) What transpired 'at the home of Quincy Jones' ? What were the listeners' reactions at his home ?
We've discussed this topic about A Kind Of Hush several times.The bottom line is,whether Herb loved the album or not doesn't matter-it was a traditional Carpenters album,and he knew it was going to sell.

In A&M's thirty-seven year history,only a select few albums were certified Gold within a month of release.A Kind Of Hush was one of them.

What transpired at the home of Quincy Jones? That's a question for Quincy Jones to answer.
 
Karen had some really good songs on the solo project and written by some of the best in that era. She was seeking the material that defined the period as Richard did when he chose Paul Williams and Leon Russell in the early 70's! But it was Karen's voice that popularized Richard's efforts and I believe that same voice could have had the same results with Phil's efforts if marketed correctly. I also feel that the solo experience shows its feet in some of the material recorded during the Made in America sessions. I have always felt that the two worlds could co-exist and the choice of one over the other did not have to happen, but I am not in the marketing world of the music business, so my opinion is meek in value. At the end of it all, I am so thankful for the TV special Music, Music, Music for it showcases Carpenters at their best! Even though I enjoy Made in America it was not A Song For You, but some of the solo project is!
Karen's voice didn't popularize Richard's efforts-Richard's efforts popularized Karen's voice.It's a well-accepted fact in the music industry that Karen wouldn't have been famous or successful in any sense without Richard's producing,arranging & songwriting skills. The greatest voices in the world still need the right producer & arranger to make them sound good.
 
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