Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by Chris May, Oct 31, 2013.
I agree, song4you!
By the way, thanks Stephen,as I was not paying attention to my own question,
which is answered in the Liner Notes of Karen Carpenter 1996:
"...These mixes, the material and style, are the way Karen approved them." (Phil Ramone)
The alternate take used on the 1989 version was probably recorded first.Phil Ramone probably wanted Karen to do another take using a softer,more intimate vocal-and that ended up on Karen's original album.
Changes in recording technology wasn't a factor. Recording and mixing falls under Production-and the way a recording ultimately sounds depends on how the Producer did the recording & mixing.
It's interesting to me that even as an album of unreleased material full of different styles, Lovelines gets better rankings than Hush or Made in America.
Found this on ebay....there is only 1 issue of Billboard in 1989 available for online viewing and this photo is not there...so this is the only shot available for now....if someone has the Billboard issue with this advert please post a better scan.
Billboard magazine did a 30 year Salute to Phil Ramone and on his discography page there is a photo of Karen and Phil Ramone with a credit in 1989 for the album Lovelines ......(why do they continue to misspell the album name?) they also indicate Lovelines was record in May 1980 which has to be the wrong date.
What makes this unique is that this issue is from May 11, 1996 obviously promoting the album Lovelines....Karen's album would not be released until Oct 1996....we have seen this photo many times however wouldn't this have been rare for a photo to surface in Billboard of Karen and Phil in the recording studio before her album was actually released.
The Billboard Salute to Phil Ramone starts on page 41 and ends on page 82.
Billboard Album Review for Lovelines Dec 09, 1989
Here is a short review for "You're The One" from Billboard April 14, 1990
This wasn't issued as a single so it must have got notice because of The Karen Carpenter Story and Lovelines plug.
On Lovelines ,
with the two Television numbers,
Little Girl Blue
When I Fall In Love,
the drummer credited is Cubby O'Brien.
Otherwise, Ron Tutt , seems to be "in the studio"
(during this period) .
Obviously this is leading into my next question:
Why the switch ?
In other words,
how were those 'drumming' decisions made for each song?
(Of course, I realize Cubby O'Brien is their Concert drummer).
I never cared too much for LGB either. The bridge, least of all....
Okay ladies and gents.... I just downloaded If I Had You from Karen's LP on my iphone and have a YouTube up with the Lovelines version and am studying it line for line, and can't detect a different vocal! I'm mystified... Can someone alert me as to where some of the nuances can be heard?? Seems syllable for syllable they are the same!
It's very subtle, but the nuances are there.
Listen to the first line "I wouldn't have the TV in the bedroom". On Karen's version, she whispers the line, on the Lovelines version it's more strident.
At 1m38s, she sings the line "if you take my hand I'll show you just how love could be so right". On her solo version, she holds the note on "so right" longer than on the Lovelines version.
Aware as we are that Richard Carpenter has changed his opinion regarding songs on Voice of The Heart
--that is, he would only have considered Now as a true follow-up to Made In America, had their reccording
I would be interested to know if his opinion ---for the songs on Lovelines--- has changed throughout the
Out of those three albums, Lovelines is the superior offering (IMHO).
I couldn't agree with you more GaryAlan. I've often said how it takes a true genius to be able to mix the different genres and time periods the way Richard did, and do it so effectively and beautifully. This is another mood album for me, yet it has what I believe to be some of their best work collectively - between Karen's solo work and Richards impeccable arranging and production value. Just exquisite...
Yeah, his work on Uninvited and Kiss Me always impresses me as some of his best. Maybe not the strongest songs, but still.
Must have been a 'business' decision to Not include a nice inner sleeve with lyrics and photos.
Not to mention--should have been released the week of televised Karen Carpenter movie,with more promotion.
Probably would have moved many more copies and scooted it up the charts.
The album is far too good to be as unknown as it is---among the general populace.
It is one of my favorites. Thank You, Richard.
If LOVELINES would have been released in December just prior to the KC story airing it would have sold so much more.
I've always thought that too - it would have done so much better as a tie in to the movie, just because two songs were featured on it. Shame Richard hadn't started work on the album sooner...but then I guess he was busy making the movie
Never seen that before Chris, thanks for posting the image!
Absolutely love how Billboard describes the KC album tracks as "captivating" and singles out If I Had You for a special mention
The Movie was 'in production' for quite a long time--and, then, commenced primary shooting only
very late in the process, taking roughly 20 days to film. (I'll locate that reference to support this line.)
And, in Schmidt's Reader, regarding the rise in sales following airing, a retailer with words (on Feb 8,1989)
"...no telling how much we would have sold if we would have had product on hand, stocked..." (Schmidt page 197, from,Variety)
Musicland spokesperson:"the operation was not prepared...for response to the Movie..."
Thus, I actually wonder if album Lovelines was even thought of before the Movie airing.
It appears to me that it was not seriously considered until after the considerable success of the Movie and corresponding
rise in record sales.
But, I could be wrong.
That ad was simple enough to recreate:
Good enough for the Resource?
That's perfect Harry, thanks just downloaded it for my folder.
This photo was found in Billboard issue Nov 04, 1989 that issue finally came online for viewing but unfortunately the scan was in bad shape and not nearly as clear as this one. Great job!!
Chris, I noticed a while back that many of the Billboard Magazine issues that come online--in Google Books---
are unreadable, that is, blurry. My presumption is that it is done purposefully, in order to prevent wholesale copying of
entire articles. Thus, I do my best to try for smaller quotes from the magazine with, then, an attribution to the entire issue.
I hope I have not ruffled any feathers--here or elsewhere-- as I try to adhere to copyright laws and restrictions, thus providing
source links and attribution to publications ---without necessarily copying all of said article to the forum.
I love the above: "...Captivating work from the Phil Ramone- produced solo album..."
Perhaps I should interject some clarity on my posting, above:
I have nothing but respect and admiration for all that Chris has obtained from the Billboard Magazine, and any other source.
I wanted to inform readers that oftentimes the Google Books search, along with the Billboard Web site, will oftentimes
purposefully prevent retrieval of online information. Information is--at times--blurred to such an extant that retrieval is not possible
from those online venues. It is apparently their way of controlling the informational pipeline.
This is why I so appreciate everything that Chris has made possible to this Forum.
Chris' scans have been remarkably clear and informative, and much appreciated !
Thanks so much for awesome diligence in bringing these materials to light !