🎷 Jazz AOTW Antonio Carlos Jobim - STONE FLOWER

How Would You Rate This Album?


  • Total voters
    10

Captain Bacardi

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Thread Starter
Antonio Carlos Jobim
STONE FLOWER
CTi Records

Released 1970

Peaked at #18 on the Jazz Album chart and #196 on the Billboard 200 Album chart (1971)

Produced by Creed Taylor

Songs:
1. Tereza My Love - 4:22
2. Children's Games - 3:29
3. Choro - 2:08
4. Brazil (Ary Barroso) - 7:24
5. Stone Flower - 3:19
6. Amparo - 3:39
7. Andorinha - 3:29
8. God And The Devil In The Land Of The Sun - 2:21
9. Sabiá (C. Hollanda/A.C. Jobim) - 3:57
10. Brazil (alternate take) - 5:25*
* - CD Bonus Track
All compositions by Antonio Carlos Jobim unless otherwise indicated
Arranged by Eumir Deodato
Musicians:
Antonio Carlos Jobim - Guitar, Piano & Vocals
Eumir Deodato - Guitar
Joe Farrell - Soprano Sax
Hubert Laws - Flute
Urbie Green - Trombone
Ron Carter - Bass
Airto Moreira - Percussion
Everaldo Ferriera - Percussion
Joao Palm - Percussion & Drums
Harry Lookofsky - Violin

Recorded by Rudy Van Gelder at Van Gelder Studios
Cover Album Design: Tony Lane
Cover Photograph: Pete Turner

Available from Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Stone-Flower-...-2&keywords=antonio+carlos+jobim+stone+flower



Capt. Bacardi
 

Dave

Well-Known Member
I first bought 'Brazil' as a single and it had a cool all-green label... It was also divided into 'Part 1' and 'Part 2', something you can't even get as a CD Bonus Track...

A fairly good outing, if it does hint at his past A&M/CTi work, in that it works as a extension of Wave, going at a moody, comfortable pace, while avoiding the uncomfortable inequity of Tide, in not duplicating any of the tendencies to become redundant... Instead, offering a new insight (owed to on-the-level Eumir Deodato's arrangements) brought into view, by avoiding any commercial debacle and introducing a calmer, fresher approach...


-- Dave
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
If I could rate this one a "6", I would. Tide was disposable IMHO--it plays like unfinished leftovers from the Wave sessions--there are parts of some of the tunes that seem empty. Oh, and who needs "Wave" played sideways ("Tide")? It was also, IIRC, the last CTi album on A&M, and it reeks of "contract fulfillment."

Stone Flower is what Tide should have been. It has a similar sound to Wave but the mood is darker and the music more complex (yet, still easygoing, as was Jobim's style). Definitely a worthy Jobim album, every bit the equal of Wave (if not exceeding it).
 

Captain Bacardi

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Thread Starter
I really like this album. I was a late-comer to this CD, but have enjoyed it quite a bit. You can't go wrong when the opening tune features Urbie Green's beautiful trombone work! I did find it interesting that Jobim did a cover of "Brazil", but it works. You don't really hear other artists covering some of these songs - at least I can't think of many.



Capt. Bacardi
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
I have been trying to figure out if "Double Rainbow" (aka "Childrens Games") made its debut on this album. Getz and Gilberto would cover it on Getz's Best Of Two Worlds LP on Columbia (which featured Joao's wife Miucha on vocals...both of whom are Bebel's parents).

I like Santana's version of "Stone Flower" on his Caravanserai album--it actually stays true to Jobim's rendition here, while also sticking to Santana's sound back in that era. I like Santana's quote of "God and the Devil in the Land of the Sun" at the beginning of his "Stone Flower" also.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
I'm new to STONE FLOWER, having just added an older Epic Associated CD to my collection. I notice above in this thread that "Brazil" is listed at 7:24. This Epic CD has it at 9:40. That's quite a bit longer.

1606918891051.png
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
I've never seen that version, but I'm guessing it is probably an earlier release than the current one (which I've had for about 17 or so years now). I think the timing on this CD must be incorrect; the second "Brazil" on any CD version is a bonus track, an unused take from the sessions.

Doug Payne's reference shows that Tide and Stone Flower have the same session dates and of course, much of the same personnel.


The 45 RPM vinyl cut is sumptuous, but has been out of print for a few years now.
 

lj

Well-Known Member
Here is a terrific review of the Stone Flower album by Arnaldo DeSouteiro. Interestingly, the great Creed Taylor choose every song for this impeccable album. And the side musicians were truly all-time all stars, with the likes of Ron Carter, Airto, and Joao Palma. The review noted Joao Palma's superb brush work on Brazil--that's for sure. And Eumir Deodato's arrangements are tops. Jobim always surrounded himself with the very best musicians.

Jazz Station - Arnaldo DeSouteiro's Blog (Jazz, Bossa & Beyond): Antonio Carlos Jobim "Stone Flower" - Liner Notes (jazzstation-oblogdearnaldodesouteiros.blogspot.com)
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
I grabbed that rear insert photo from Discogs, but mine is even slightly different from that. It has a different (newer?) Epic Associated logo on the lower left of the copyright section, and it has a Legacy logo on the lower right. Yet my CD exactly matched the entry on Discogs, down to the hub numbering.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
I've never seen that version, but I'm guessing it is probably an earlier release than the current one (which I've had for about 17 or so years now). I think the timing on this CD must be incorrect; the second "Brazil" on any CD version is a bonus track, an unused take from the sessions.

Doug Payne's reference shows that Tide and Stone Flower have the same session dates and of course, much of the same personnel.


The 45 RPM vinyl cut is sumptuous, but has been out of print for a few years now.

So if the album had come out under the A&M CTi banner, it might have looked like this:

StoneFlowerAMCTi1.png
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
Here is a terrific review of the Stone Flower album by Arnaldo DeSouteiro.
I don't agree with his assessment of Wave at all--he considers it uneven, where I find it a very solid and cohesive whole. Others hold it in high regard also--musically I'd consider it to be neck and neck with Tamba 4's We and The Sea in terms of being the best A&M/CTi album.

In fact, if I had to choose a "best" Jobim album, I'd be hard pressed to choose between that album and Stone Flower. I've always felt that Tide was an album of leftovers and I wasn't far from wrong--since they owed A&M one more record and chose tunes for both albums from the same sessions, it's understandable A&M would get the lesser of the two records. Creed Taylor did differentiate them a little by putting the tunes with the heavier orchestral accompaniment on Tide and keeping Stone Flower as a quiter, evocative experience. Tide is not a terrible album by any means, but it's decidedly average--I don't find anything aside from "Tema Jazz" that really stands out for me there, and the title track is such a throwaway I'm surprised they even cut it. (Basically aimless noodling to the changes of "Wave.")
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
I have this CD and I enjoy it Equally to Wave and Tide ( which I also have) I consider it my personal trilogy of sorts with Stone flower being different from Tide a levels though the songs were from the same sessions as mentioned previously But nevertheless Great music all around
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
My version of STONE FLOWER's "Brazil" (main version, track #4), has the song lasting 9:42, as reported in Windows, and also on the rear cover as above.
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
I can check my 45 RPM LP version to see how long it runs, once I'm back when I can check it.
 

JOv2

Well-Known Member
I guess I'm in the minority on Tide. I bought it in 1979 in high school (after acquiring Wave in Jr. high) and was my 3rd LP of Jobim music at that time. It wasn't as moody as Wave and didn't have the memorable melodies like the Verve debut LP, but I liked it very much when I first played it. I thought the title selection was an inside-out view of the Wave changes. I can see Rudy's point in that it seems like noodling in a sense. Given the Wave rehash aspect and that Girl From Ipanema was re-worked suggests contractual obligation. Nevertheless, the balance of the LP -- save the true throwaway on the LP, the last selection -- is quite listenable. I like both Stone Flower and Tide, but will nod to Tide for nostalgia.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
I consider Wave.Tide. and Stone flower my Favorite Jobim albums a kind of Trilogy of sorts I think Tide and Stone flower go together as From what I understood ( I may be wrong) all the songs were recorded at the same sessions but split up between A&M and The soon to be Independent CTI but to me it's all Excellent
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
My version of STONE FLOWER's "Brazil" (main version, track #4), has the song lasting 9:42, as reported in Windows, and also on the rear cover as above.
I'm not sure where they got that version if "Brazil" from, but the correct version as originally released was 7:20, which my two copies have. (It's already too long at that length, IMHO.) I found a version with 9:42 and it was on the "Jazz Masterpieces" series (or whatever it was called--it went by various names). That's the same series that dumped a lot of noise reduction on the Miles Davis Kind of Blue reissue and used the incorrect cover art. Not all were bad, but they seemed to take liberties to "improve" a number of the releases by making an alteration or two that was questionable. The series did a good job on the George Duke Brazilian Love Affair by including an unreleased track, "Caxanga," with a Milton Nascimento lead vocal.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Yeah, it seems that the first Columbia CTi CDs had some remixing going on. I've mentioned a Jackie & Roy CTi that has an extended bit in the middle of a song. I also hear some subtle reverb applied compared to the original LP. Not sure if they did anything to my Deodato disc.
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
Yeah, it seems that the first Columbia CTi CDs had some remixing going on. I've mentioned a Jackie & Roy CTi that has an extended bit in the middle of a song. I also hear some subtle reverb applied compared to the original LP. Not sure if they did anything to my Deodato disc.
I doubt they did any remixing, as nobody at a label is going to go hunt down the multitrack masters and pay engineers to do a remix on what was a catalog reissue. (I don't trust Discogs data in that respect.) But sure, doctoring it up after the fact with reverb, noise reduction or compression certainly can, and did, happen. I've had some that sounded fine, yet others were a bit off. Mostly the earliest ones in the series were a bit doctored up, like this one with heavy digital noise reduction that made it sound at times like it was recorded under a blanket.

1625581442674.png

How they could mess up the cover art of one of the classic jazz albums of all time still boggles my mind. This is what the cover has been for every other legit CD reissue, as well as all the vinyl versions since day one:

1625581573826.png
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
I've read something recently that said that the first track on STONE FLOWER had flutes mixed in differently, channel swapped, a buried piano part, etc. To me that says remixing was done at least on STONE FLOWER.

Ah - it was on Hoffman:
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
I'll have to listen to it. Some of the members there tend to "hear" things. Must have been all the drugs in the 70s. 😁

It also could have been an alternate version. It isn't uncommon for a label to try to assemble a reissue from different master tapes and pick the wrong versions.
 

Silentseason

Active Member
Of the Jobim trinity, Wave is the best. Of Tide/Stone Flower, for me it is a matter of mood for that particular day. Sometimes the subtler and textured SF plays better. Other times, the more energetic Tide is a more enjoyable listen. All depends on the frame of mind for that day. Regardless, all 3 are grand slams.
 
Top Bottom