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Anyone read this?

Another Son

Well-Known Member
Gino Vannelli, explaining why he wanted to be signed by A&M when, at 20, he first pursued a recording career:- "A&M had artists like The Carpenters and Cat Stevens and Sergio Mendes and Quincy Jones. I thought they were really a GREAT LABEL for me to be on".
(Top 2000 A GoGo, Dutch Public TV, 2016).

 

goodjeans

Well-Known Member
Gino Vannelli, explaining why he wanted to be signed by A&M when, at 20, he first pursued a recording career:- "A&M had artists like The Carpenters and Cat Stevens and Sergio Mendes and Quincy Jones. I thought they were really a GREAT LABEL for me to be on".
(Top 2000 A GoGo, Dutch Public TV, 2016).

I just wanna stop and play this over again.
 

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
I know the 1972 Lake Havasu boat incident with everyone having to walk or piggyback ashore has been mentioned in a previous thread and even talk about in the Carpenter Fan Club Newsletter and quote by @NowhereMan post. But found this article from May 07, 1972 with a quote from KC at the end I hadn't read before.

I often wondered what the exact time frame in 1972 this special was filmed. As I recall, all the wind-swept vistas the duo were recording at, it makes sense. That country on the California - Arizona border is pretty rough no matter what time of year. Summer, forget about it...it's unbearably hot. Remember that scene with Tom Jones and Jennifer O'Neal running hand-in-hand up the hill with the wind practically knocking them over?! LOL! One thing for sure, Karen looked awesome in that special! And that quote at the end of the article is just another reason Karen was so endearing. Thanks for posting.
 

ratlab

New Member
Of course, it being the desert, it could have been any time of year and it could be windy, but they would have been roasting if it were anytime late Spring onward. I could imagine all of them thinking (while on the lonely island) they had plenty of time to make it back for dinner. Karen definitely looked awesome.
 

ratlab

New Member
A mention of Richard as an accompanist for Don Kramer (violinist) from Long Beach. A compliment for Richard in the concert write up (3rd article).

Per SLC Tribune in 2012 on Kramer retiring: Don Kramer, violin (41 years at Utah Symphony) • Born in Texas and reared in Southern California, where he studied music and pursued a career as a recording-studio and chamber-music artist before coming to the Utah Symphony in 1970. He is also a choral conductor and Bible scholar.

I believe he passed away in 2019.



 

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
A bit off-topic, but I find it interesting that the London Bridge ended up in a place like Lake Havasu. It's a haven for "snowbird" retirees and drunken "college students" on spring break (well not anymore). This is when the UK was having a garage sale of its famous icons. I remember very vividly as a 10 year old living in Long Beach California, when my mother took me down to the port on a Saturday in Dec 1967 when the Queen Mary came in on its final voyage. They made a hotel out of it.
 

goodjeans

Well-Known Member
A little more on Neil Sedaka post-Vegas firing from 1975 AP wire articles, with some background on how he and Richard met.


From reports, Neil acted as though he was the headliner.
Yuck.
Richard's arrangement for the slowed down version of Sedaka's "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do" is sublime. The vocal, not so much.
 

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
^^I have stated in previous threads that Neil did the Carpenters dirty in 1975. He upstaged them on purpose. His friggen name was at the BOTTOM of the marquee. He was the WARM UP act! He broke protocol. I am completely on the side of RC with this. Karen, being a people-pleaser, just wanted to go along to get along.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Richard's arrangement for the slowed down version of Sedaka's "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do" is sublime. The vocal, not so much.
You have to be kidding - it’s one of the bluesiest, most beautiful vocals Neil ever recorded. Whatever happened between him, Richard and Karen over 40 years ago, you have to give him credit for being a class act. He’s doing mini concerts every day online to lift people through the current situation and he performed the slow version of this very song a few weeks ago. I loved it. Still not bad for 81 years old!

 

ratlab

New Member
^^I have stated in previous threads that Neil did the Carpenters dirty in 1975. He upstaged them on purpose. His friggen name was at the BOTTOM of the marquee. He was the WARM UP act! He broke protocol. I am completely on the side of RC with this. Karen, being a people-pleaser, just wanted to go along to get along.
Based on the article, you have to wonder if Neil had a plan to upstage the Carpenters. If any press is good press, getting fired did wonders to revive his career. It wouldn't be out of the realm of consideration for him to think he could easily show-up the MOR Carpenters and what happens...happens.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Based on the article, you have to wonder if Neil had a plan to upstage the Carpenters. If any press is good press, getting fired did wonders to revive his career. It wouldn't be out of the realm of consideration for him to think he could easily show-up the MOR Carpenters and what happens...happens.
Did anyone else ever notice that his logo on the Riviera billboard was just as big as that of the Carpenters? Who signed that off? I’d imagine that got Richard’s back up right there.

 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Moderator
Not everything that happens in life is a result of some devious plan. Sometimes things just naturally occur. Neil Sedaka had a lot of success in the early 60s, writing and performing songs that topped the charts. He had to be rightly proud of his achievements. Then the tastes of the public changed and his kind of songs went out of style. He struggled at home but found some measure of success in both the UK and Australia.

By the time he appeared with Carpenters, he was "feeling his oats" again and wanted to take advantage of the audience appreciation he was being given. I don't blame him for wanting to try to catch that lightning in a bottle again, and I think the whole incident was a bit overblown. It's a shame that it couldn't have been handled better - probably on both sides.
 

Portlander

Well-Known Member
The blame is spread around equally between Richard, Neil and management in my opinion. I fault Neil for being the seasoned professional who should have known better and surely would not have tolerated a lessor act upstaging him. I fault Richard for not taking a pause and letting Neil just finish out the Las Vegas dates and not renewing the contract for the upcoming tour of Japan. The signage doesn't bother me too much because the Carpenters logo and photo is on top, larger and it clearly identifies Neil as a guest star visually.

I fault Sherwin for not being pro active with his conflict resolution skills and not even being present at the time when he was managing one of the most successful artists in the country at the time. What is the most disappointing to me is that Richard and Neil have not made peace with each other after 45 years over this unfortunate incident. That failing may weigh more on Richard because I read somewhere that Neil has attempted to reach out to him in the past.

As Harry mentioned, the incident was overblown and I think the music critics enjoyed taking shots at the Carpenters persona and image due to their tremendous against the grain popularity. What humors me is that even though Neil Sedaka is an incredible song writer and performer, he was never considered "hip" by anyone I've ever met and my 83 year old Elvis loving mother still considers him a square! She also thought the Carpenters were square (her favorite uncool tag) but to this day she still has a deep admiration for Karen's voice and Richard's talent as an arranger.

"Laughter in the Rain" is still one of my all time favorite songs which may make me square for admitting it!
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
What is the most disappointing to me is that Richard and Neil have not made peace with each other after 45 years over this unfortunate incident. That failing may weigh more on Richard because I read somewhere that Neil has attempted to reach out to him in the past.
Wholeheartedly agree with this because I also believe it to be true from what I’ve read over the years. Both of them were - and remain - men with huge egos but Neil is a true gentleman.

Evelyn Wallace didn’t say much through the years other than writing the fan club newsletters but this from Randy’s book really resonated with me:

Evelyn Wallace kept quiet but was embarrassed to learn Richard had lost his temper and caused such a scene. “I didn’t think much of him at the time for doing what he did,” she says. “I’m sure Richard wanted to introduce those guys, but he could have said something like, ‘I’d like to thank Neil for introducing so-and-so,’ and that would have shown he was the bigger man’”
 

GDB2LV

Well-Known Member
I wrote on one of the threads that I saw him last July in Beverly Hills. He’s a bit chubbier and still has that sparkle in his eye when he performs. I think his huge comeback and new found, plus older audience fed the emotion of performing again, to a very appreciative crowd. He couldn’t help the reception he received at the Las Vegas shows nor was it expected. They usually did 2 shows a night, a dinner and late cocktail show. They had limited time to perform on schedule. The dinner crowd had to leave so they staff could set the tables for the 2nd performance. It was usually 6 nights a week. Neil upset that by running longer than his allotted time. The Carpenters were cheated out of their performance, as it was very scripted and set for their performance. Usually no straying from the set list. It caused unfortunate friction and the rest is history. It was all sad, and made Richard & Karen look like villains against an older seasoned artist who overstepped his bounds. He did an 5-6 minute montage of hit songs that he wrote before he came on stage. He chose Carpenters version of Breaking Up Is Hard To Do and Clay Aiken’s versión of Solitaire in the montage. A bit disappointed with that, but at least he included them and their picture. Great show BTW.
 

Mark-T

Well-Known Member
Lack of forgiveness keeps us in bondage and creates an opportunity for bitterness to change us. It's SO hard to forgive those who've hurt us-! (Don't we all know that!) Surely it is an ongoing process. It doesn't necessarily mean a restoration of a relationship, but it can mean being at peace.
 

John Adam

"Two Lives"
Lack of forgiveness keeps us in bondage and creates an opportunity for bitterness to change us. It's SO hard to forgive those who've hurt us-! (Don't we all know that!) Surely it is an ongoing process. It doesn't necessarily mean a restoration of a relationship, but it can mean being at peace.
I suppose in business things are handled differently. It seems a lot of the personal parts go out the window and things can become kind of cold. I guess that they have nothing to gain professionally by making amends, but personally, like Mark stated, peace is the result of forgiveness, and letting go, frees up space for more positive thoughts to enter!
 

ratlab

New Member
A newspaper promo for the Ch. 2 (that's the SoCal CBS station if I remember correctly) Carpenters interview with Jerry Dunphy. I know this is a b&w newspaper photo, but for those that have seen the interview... doesn't Karen's outfit (color, etc.) remind you of Mickey Mouse?

 

goodjeans

Well-Known Member
You have to be kidding - it’s one of the bluesiest, most beautiful vocals Neil ever recorded. Whatever happened between him, Richard and Karen over 40 years ago, you have to give him credit for being a class act. He’s doing mini concerts every day online to lift people through the current situation and he performed the slow version of this very song a few weeks ago. I loved it. Still not bad for 81 years old!

I'm not kidding.
He sounds way too effete to be convincing, whether he is singing to a male or a female.
 

goodjeans

Well-Known Member
The blame is spread around equally between Richard, Neil and management in my opinion. I fault Neil for being the seasoned professional who should have known better and surely would not have tolerated a lessor act upstaging him. I fault Richard for not taking a pause and letting Neil just finish out the Las Vegas dates and not renewing the contract for the upcoming tour of Japan. The signage doesn't bother me too much because the Carpenters logo and photo is on top, larger and it clearly identifies Neil as a guest star visually.

I fault Sherwin for not being pro active with his conflict resolution skills and not even being present at the time when he was managing one of the most successful artists in the country at the time. What is the most disappointing to me is that Richard and Neil have not made peace with each other after 45 years over this unfortunate incident. That failing may weigh more on Richard because I read somewhere that Neil has attempted to reach out to him in the past.

As Harry mentioned, the incident was overblown and I think the music critics enjoyed taking shots at the Carpenters persona and image due to their tremendous against the grain popularity. What humors me is that even though Neil Sedaka is an incredible song writer and performer, he was never considered "hip" by anyone I've ever met and my 83 year old Elvis loving mother still considers him a square! She also thought the Carpenters were square (her favorite uncool tag) but to this day she still has a deep admiration for Karen's voice and Richard's talent as an arranger.

"Laughter in the Rain" is still one of my all time favorite songs which may make me square for admitting it!
The beginning of Laughter In The Rain sounds like the beginning of We've Only Just Begun.
 

David A

Well-Known Member
I suppose in business things are handled differently. It seems a lot of the personal parts go out the window and things can become kind of cold. I guess that they have nothing to gain professionally by making amends, but personally, like Mark stated, peace is the result of forgiveness, and letting go, frees up space for more positive thoughts to enter!
Not to digress too far but I'm a business owner and yes, it's different - sadly so, in many ways - in business.

"Nothing personal, it's just business" is a phrase I have come to loathe, because it often justifies/rationalizes greed and betrayal of trust.

I love Carpenters! There, back on subject :wink:
 
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