Brasil '66 singles

Discussion in 'Look Around: Sergio Mendes/Brazilian Music Forum' started by Harry, Nov 14, 2014.

  1. Michael Hagerty

    Michael Hagerty Well-Known Member

    A good example is KHJ in Los Angeles, which only played three Brasil '66 singles. "The Look of Love" peaked at #2. So did "Fool on the Hill". "Scarborough Fair" only made #10. But beyond the peak number is this story---it took two weeks to move from hitbound to #25. The next week, #10. Then #12, then #24, then gone.

    Now, KHJ was a quick on-quick off station in those days. Seven weeks on the chart for a big record was about it. Six was more common. "Hey Jude" set some kind of record for charting for 11 weeks. But four---that's short. And it suggests it might not have really been a #10 or #12 record.

    KHJ gave itself a lot of latitude by putting this language at the bottom of its weekly chart: "The listing of records herein is the opinion of KHJ based on its survey of record sales, listener requests and KHJ's judgement of the record's appeal. "
  2. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    Back when XM Radio was still around, "Scarborough Fair" was the only Brasil '66 song I ever heard, on the 60s channel.
  3. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    Kinda reminds me of Rosalie Trombley there. :wink:
  4. Michael Hagerty

    Michael Hagerty Well-Known Member

    Another RKO General radio station (for those trying to follow along, Rosalie was the legendary Music Director at CKLW, Windsor/Detroit).
  5. How could I have forgotten!? -- "Black Magic Woman" is an example of a song done by a then-current popular recording artist (band), and then covered soon after by another big band/act/name/group/artist.

    (Again, correct me if I'm wrong -- but my understanding is) the original release of "Black Magic Woman" by Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac was a hit in the U.K. (and maybe Europe), but it was Santana's cover version (adaptation) that got lots of notice and airplay (sales, impact, etc.) in the U.S.

    Santana's version got popular in 1970, which means, that it was a cover of a song that had recently been made a hit by another hit-making artist. That's my point here, with this post.
    But, as I said, I am not sure how many Americans were familiar with the original by 1970 when they would have heard Santana's version for the first times.

    In fact, all of Santana's most-played songs (best-known tracks) were covers of songs that were originally done by others (as singles/45s). But "Evil Ways" and "Oye Como Va" were originally done many years earlier (earlier in the 1960s, I think) -- and even then, the originals probably weren't well-known by the Pop and Rock mainstream and white youth cultures in the U.S. when Santana released their versions of those songs. So, those two particular examples aren't the strongest support for my thesis here.
    In fact, to this day, Santana's versions of those three songs -- "Black Magic Woman" , "Evil Ways" and "Oye" are the best-known versions/recordings of those particular songs.

    This might serve as a bit of a parallel for the idea I had expressed about Lani having done some adaptation of "Oh Well" -- in a Mose Allison -type style with piano instead of guitar. (It would be the reverse process of what Pete Townsend did with "Young Man Blues." by Mose Alison.)
  6. Michael Hagerty

    Michael Hagerty Well-Known Member

    Fleetwood Mac's "Black Magic Woman" peaked at #37 in the UK (again, 36 other songs did better on its best week), and was not released as a single and did not chart in the US. It was on a Fleetwood Mac compilation released in 1969 in the US called ENGLISH ROSE, which peaked at #184, so it's fair to assume very few people in the US ever heard it before Santana.

    As for "Evil Ways", yes Willie Bobo recorded it and released it on the 1967 BOBO MOTION album, but that didn't chart.

    Neither did "Oye Como Va", which Tito Puente wrote in 1956, but didn't release until 1962's EL REY BRAVO album, which also didn't chart.

    Bottom line---none of those songs were hits by other hit-making artists. Even Fleetwood Mac, which had charted (1969's "Oh Well" peaked at #55 and was their only chart single until "Over My Head" in 1975), had yet to have anything close to a hit in the US before "Black Magic Woman" was released by Santana).
    Intuitive Samba likes this.
  7. But what about Linda Ronstadt? -- (I suppose (baby) "You're no good" wasn't a mainstream white-audience Top-40 Pop hit until she did her version, maybe ; other examples?) Maybe Michael (and others) would say that it fit her image, fine, though.
    … or, Joe Cocker? Like Santana, these popular artists of the time (late '60s and early 1970s) weren't known for original material. But, I suppose that the songs that they had hits with weren't hits for other name-artists before their versions became big (particularly in the Top-40 American Pop mainstream). So Michael's rule still applies.

    Joe Cocker's first hit, of course, was "Little Help from my Friends" back in 1968 -- I suppose that was really an album track on Pepper and not a 45 hit single (particularly, in the U.S.).
    And, Joe's follow-up hit was "She Came in Through the Bathroom Window")

    Wikipedia says : "reached number 30 on the Billboard top 40 in 1970.[7]"
    Again, an album track on Abbey Road for the original artists, not a single (Correct me where I am making mistakes here).

    Interestingly -- Michael pointed out that, perhaps, Sergio chose to cover "Norwegian Wood" because it was getting Top 40 airplay (in the U.S.) as if it was a single, but it actually wasn't technically released on a 45, at the time.
  8. Actually, wasn't Joe Cocker's 2nd hit single (or,at least 45 release) "Feelin' Alright" ?
    -- And, Mr. Hagerty would likely point out that Traffic's original version wasn't really a hit, originally.

    But, I'm veering off the topic of Latin-Jazz -flavored music by using these other artists as examples.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  9. Michael Hagerty

    Michael Hagerty Well-Known Member

    "You're No Good" stiffed at #51 ten years before. It was unlikely to have been remembered by a mass audience. I'd argue that it not only fit Linda's image, it established Linda's image.

    It helps to remember that Linda's biggest singles chart success as a solo artist had been "Long Long Time", which only made #25 ("Different Drum", with the Stone Poneys managed to peak at #13). The four singles leading up to "You're No Good" peaked at #85, 51, 67 and 108.

    And---Linda caught and helped propel a mid-70s nostalgia wave that began with the film "American Graffiti", picked up steam with the Carpenters NOW AND THEN, Elton John's "Crocodile Rock" and covers of "Daddy's Home" (Jermaine Jackson), and then became a three-year trend with hits in '73, '74 and '75 like "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" and "Do You Wanna Dance" (Bette Midler), "Rockin' Pneumonia and the Boogie Woogie Flu" (Johnny Rivers), "Jambalaya" (The Blue Ridge Rangers), "The Twelfth of Never" (Donny Osmond), "The Loco-Motion" (Grand Funk), "Hooked on a Feeling" (Blue Swede), "You're Sixteen" (Ringo Starr), "He Don't Love You" (Tony Orlando & Dawn), "Please Mister Postman" (Carpenters), "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds" (Elton John), "How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You" (James Taylor) and others.

    Linda did very well in that phase, with "When Will I Be Loved", "Heat Wave", "The Tracks of My Tears", "That'll Be The Day"...and actually continued to hit with covers after the trend had peaked ("Blue Bayou", "It's So Easy", "Ooo Baby Baby").

    As for Joe Cocker, we're not really comparing him and Lani in terms of what material might work, are we?

    So far, we're at seven pages of the same answer from me. Stuff changed. Old-school adult artists (especially those dependent on cover songs) fell out of favor. Lani was never able to successfully reposition herself in terms of being a successful chart artist. But she's done just fine.

    We can keep going over it, but eventually you have to ask yourself the question:

    Bobberman likes this.
  10. I was going to mention Elton John's cover hit of "Lucy in the Sky" -- That wasn't a current song in 1973. Instead, that was 7 years old by then.
    But would a song that was associated with 1967 have been considered (revival) "retro" nostalgia in 1973? (I wasn't around then, myself -- so those who were -- what do you think?)
  11. "As for Joe Cocker, we're not really comparing him and Lani in terms of what material might work, are we?"

    I wasn't suggesting that the same material would have been sung by both, nor that the vocal styles were similar.
    That wasn't my (intended) point, by bringing up that example.

    I was just finding an example of a popular recording artist who had hit records and airplay (particularly in the U.S.) in the late 1960s and early 1970s who wasn't known for original material and instead had impact with "covers."
  12. The 7 (so-far) pages of this thread (B'66 singles) consist of more than just a discussion about this particular idea/topic and angle.
    And others can join in, of course.
    I wasn't intending to have a private one-on-one conversation with just Michael on this particular thread, here.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  13. How could I have forgotten? -- Lani did (in fact) sing "Little Help from my Friends."

    I don't know if that was a single (45) release for B'66 -- which would bring this discussion back to the original topic of this thread.
    I imagine that it got some airplay, at least on M.O.R. / Easy-listening format-stations.

    And, another idea would have been some duet with Joe Cocker, but that idea was already discussed on another thread (for Blush?).
  14. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator Thread Starter

    It was. A&M 910, with "Look Around" as the b-side.
  15. Michael Hagerty

    Michael Hagerty Well-Known Member

    And it did not chart on the Hot 100. On the Easy Listening chart, it peaked at #31, which was Brasil '66's worst performance on that chart to date.

    However, their next two singles, "The Look of Love" and "The Fool on the Hill" , were Brasil '66's biggest (#4 and #6 respectively on the Hot 100, #2 and #1 respectively on the Easy Listening chart).

    And yes, both of those were covers, but that's irrelevant, because it was 1968---and as we've established repeatedly, the changes in what audiences wanted really began in earnest in 1969.
  16. The question might be -- what exactly prompted, and originated the change? And, more-importantly, how did the change get adopted in-mass and become a new trend?
    I suppose, at some point, some brave or imaginative radio programmer took a risk and decided to buck the then-current trends, and fashions, and industry thinking, and do something different (from what other programmers, in a given format, in a given market, were doing (and, likely, thinking that they were expected to do)).
    Some brave dissident started the change somehow, somewhere -- it only stands to logic.

    Otherwise, things would not have changed (particularly in the mainstream of American, commercial pop music).

    Besides, I assume most posters here are American - and therefore, have an American -dominated, and -centric point-of-view on these matters.
    What about European radio, or Japan, or even Latin America? Those music markets weren't insignificant (back in the 1960s and 1970s -- we're talking about, here).
    In fact, there were several American artists who were very popular in those parts of the world that weren't in the U.S., at least the American mainstream.

    I recall seeing mention by some other posters (other than Michael Hagerty) of having worked in radio back in the day (1970s, mostly).
    I wonder, do all radio programmers (in a given market, in a given style/format, in a given period of time) think alike and make the same kind of decisions ; are they supposed to be lemmings? Maybe Michael speaks for all of them (with one, unified voice). I suppose Michael is the final, undisputed authority on what should have been popular and have gotten airplay in the U.S. mainstream airwaves (particularly back in the period of 1969-1970s or so).

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