Brasil '66 singles

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
During the commercial heyday of Tijuana Brass's record sales, most of those record buyers were not Baby Boomers, and instead that older-adult demographic, right?

There is no doubt, however, that the boomers (particularly in the U.S. of A.) were the major record-buying demographic in the decade of the 1970s.
During the TJB heyday, Boomers bought most of the singles, while adults bought most of the albums. The TJB was important because it blurred some of those lines---adults who liked a TJB song might buy the single if they weren't sure about the album---and more Boomers bought TJB albums than pretty much any other adult-appealing act.
 

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I suppose we can never know for absolute certain, exactly who was buying a record -- most certainly not before the adoption of SoundScan (in the 1990s).

I mean, it's possible that a lot of the Carpenters' record purchases could have been made by many mothers (who were in their 30s or 40s) for their little pumpkins ("Oh, look! -- The Carpenters have a new album out. Johnny will love this!").
I dunno. (Or, maybe I'm confusing the cultural status that the Carpenters had back then with a group like the Partridge Family or the Osmunds.)


("Oh Mom! -- Don't buy me another Carpenters record! I like Grand Funk Railroad, and Earth, Wind and Fire!"
"Pink, who?")
Even now, Soundscan won't give you demographic information about who's buying. Nobody's asking you for ID at the store.

And, having been 14 when the Carpenters hit, I can tell you first-hand that a lot of my friends who didn't want the Carpenters got them as gifts for Christmas/birthdays, etc. Parents desperately wanted to seem like they understood popular music and the Carpenters going to number one with "Close To You" made them feel that way.

Partridge/Osmond was more of a pre-teen thing, and I think most parents got that.
 
A fairy number of previously recorded Motown songs filled out the Jackson 5's early albums, including "Honey Child" (Martha and the Vandellas), "Who's Loving You" (Smokey Robinson), "Standing in the Shadows of Love" (Four Tops) , "The Love I saw in You was Just A Mirage" (Miracles), but the biggest re-do was the Supremes "Forever Came Today" (1975) which became an early disco smash that killed a dance floor.
Were any of the first four of those Jackson 5 tracks that you mentioned (besides the 5th example that you provided -- "Forever Come Today") actual hit singles (or, at least did they get any real airplay) ?

It's possible that the tracks that you had mentioned could or would have been regarded by some as mere album "filler" material.


Sure -- there were many "covers" of songs done in (probably) all decades of the record industry (recorded music output).

But we are discussing hit singles, or at least album tracks that had impact (got airplay, were popular in some way or another).


Is it fair to say that --
The Jackson 5 were pretty manufactured, in a sense (as an R&B act).
They had a whole production and marketing machinery behind them.
It makes sense that Mowtown was happy to re-cycle material from their earlier/other artists. For one thing, it increased publishing royalties, to some extent -- even if the cover version was a mere album filler and not a hit, in its own right.
 
[…]Tony Bennett sings "Something". There's an album by that exact name. It peaked at #193 (the single didn't make the Hot 100). Five years earlier, Tony put two albums in a row in the top five. After 1967, he only cracked the top 100 albums twice---with a Christmas Album, and with an album titled LOVE STORY (that movie floated all boats)---that is until 1996, when Tony and his era became fashionable again.

His albums called FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE, I'VE GOTTA BE ME, and TONY SINGS THE GREAT HITS OF TODAY peaked at 164, 137 and 144 respectively. And it was happening to Andy Williams, Johnny Mathis and other MOR artists who'd made a living doing covers of contemporary hits, too.
Did many boomers regard Sergio Mendes like Ray Conniff or Lawrence Welk (at least, by the year 1970, or so)?
So, Brasil '66 doing a cover of a recent American pop hit was like Barbara Eden doing a cover of "Spinning Wheel" (BS&T)?

Brasil '66 was regarded as "middle of the road"?
Wouldn't middle America have regarded the Brasilian sound as pretty exotic, particualrly the rhythms and rhythm section sound -- even as late as 1970 or the early '70s (not just back in 1966 or 1967)?

I bet that a lot of people would have regarded the Carpenters as very "middle of the road."
Their covers of hits by "hipper" artists (with songs such as "Superstar") didn't seem to be an issue throughout the 1970s, particularly in the U.S. record market.
Sure, they were young, but their image wasn't particularly hip and cutting-edge.

Linda Rondstat was/is regarded (more recently, at least) as very middle-of-the-road Pop music. By the later 1970s, that didn't seem to hurt her -- but then again, she was young (of the Baby Boom generation).

I, myself, would not put Sergio Mendes (or certainly Lani Hall) in the same category as swing crooners like Tony Bennett. (Unless maybe someone regards Lani as being akin to a lounge Jazz singer.)
Sure, Lani really was Jazz-Pop, but she was so much more deeply into Brasilian music than the typical older Jazz-Pop (crooner) -type singers.

Lani was much younger than Tony and Andy Williams, and Johnny Mathis.
In fact, she was about the same age as many popular and "hip" Rock and Soul musicians of the time. She should have been at a near-perfect age in the early 1970s to break out.
(She wouldn't have (ever, in fact) appealed to teeny-boppers, but to more mature 20-something and maybe 30-something women -- sure.)

I am not sure how, exactly, Lani could have had this "image problem" that Michael speaks of. For one thing, it seems that very few people even knew who she was -- besides ardent B'66 fans -- who probably had no problem with whatever image they might have perceived her as having, whatever exactly that would have been, anyway.
I am not sure how someone who is obscure could have an "image problem" (in _any_ cultural context/scene).

I suppose, it would be more plausible to suggest that Sergio might have had such an "image problem."
But even Sergio wasn't that much old(er). He never was a Rock (or Soul) musician, and he never attempted to market/present himself as such.
In fact, the narrative that begins that recent Jazz Times article on Lani paints Brasil '66's impact in terms of having made "Easy Listening" "hip" or "cool" -- for the time, but that was 1966 and 1967 (and maybe 1968).
")
In fact, Pop culture history shows examples of artists who have successfully re-invented their image and turned around their careers.

But I am dubious about many contrived narratives that Journalists like to peg on artists and events and trends, etc. ("grain of salt") - whether it's Michael Hagerty's or the narrative that is presented by the author of the Jazz Times article.
 
Referring to the impact/success of B'66 singles "Little Help from my Friends" in relation to that of "Look of Love" (in the U.S. pop market) --
And yes, both of those were covers, but that's irrelevant, because it was 1968---and as we've established repeatedly, the changes in what audiences wanted really began in earnest in 1969.
Michael has pin-pointed 1969 as the year of this shift. (A matter of a mere year -- As if, in 1968, listeners were calling up radio stations and expressing their enthusiasm and love for B'66 covers of current hits -- but that, within a year or two, the trends/tastes had strongly shifted in listener preferences).

After all, why is it that the less-successful cover of "Little Help from my Friends" actually pre-ceeded the more-succesful cover of "Look of Love"? Clearly, the relative levels of impact and success of those two singles (in the U.S. market) were due to factors other than these trends that Michael (and others) speak of --
otherwise, "Look of Love" would have done worse than "Little Help from my Friends."


Here is my explanation --
In simple terms --
The impact/success of each record release (45 or LP, whatever) is based on the individual merits of each release -- independent/irrespective of any previous or subsequent releases.
Maybe that's a radical idea, at least to people who think like industry insiders -- with all of their convoluted and dubious narratives and theories about trends, the "marketplace", etc.

I would go as far as to assert -- based on this reasoning of mine -- that, had Sergio created and released singles (arrangements, song choices, productions) that were as exciting and compelling as what he had been doing in the hey-dey of his success (1966-1968), Brasil '66 would have continued to have enjoyed hit singles and have remained viable in the U.S. pop market-place.


Instead, simply -- Sergio's covers of "Norwegian Wood" and "Wichita Lineman" and (certainly, the weak "Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay") were not nearly as good, compelling, beautiful and/or exciting as his bigger (earlier) hits. I think that it is that simple.

I mean, "Mas Que Nada" is classic and it set the world on fire.

Never (after 1968) did Sergio put out anything anywhere that compelling. I believe that -- the strength of each release, resting on the basis of its own individual merits -- that, alone, would explain (account for) lowering record sales (particularly in America).

The late 1960s (hit pop) music scene (in the U.S.) was very rich, eclectic and there was room for a lot of different music.
(But, on the other hand, it was more crowded with compelling competition in the way of new record releases.)

I don't agree with Michael's narrow thinking on these matters.

I can also point out the inverse -- that during the heyday of Sergio / Brasil '66's commercial success (in the U.S.) -- there were a lot of hit singles by self-contained (hip, young) rock bands (singer-songwriters) , as well.
Ray Davies (Kinks), Pete Townsend (the Who), Rolling Stones, of course the Beatles - to name a few.
Neil Diamond
 
It's important to remember that cultural changes like the one Mr. Hagerty is describing don't happen overnight, but are usually a gradual shift. The younger generation was embracing both rock and the beginning of the singer-songwriter era, while their parents were still perfectly fine with hearing someone like Tony Bennett singing the Beatles' "Something".
Michael pin-points 1969 as a year of transition in mainstream hit pop radio tastes and record sales.

How _gradual_ was the decline in B'66's record sales? According to Michael, it was pretty rapid (throughout later 1968 and into 1969 and onwards).
 

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Did many boomers regard Sergio Mendes like Ray Conniff or Lawrence Welk (at least, by the year 1970, or so)?
So, Brasil '66 doing a cover of a recent American pop hit was like Barbara Eden doing a cover of "Spinning Wheel" (BS&T)?

Brasil '66 was regarded as "middle of the road"?
Wouldn't middle America have regarded the Brasilian sound as pretty exotic, particualrly the rhythms and rhythm section sound -- even as late as 1970 or the early '70s (not just back in 1966 or 1967)?

I bet that a lot of people would have regarded the Carpenters as very "middle of the road."
Their covers of hits by "hipper" artists (with songs such as "Superstar") didn't seem to be an issue throughout the 1970s, particularly in the U.S. record market.
Sure, they were young, but their image wasn't particularly hip and cutting-edge.

Linda Rondstat was/is regarded (more recently, at least) as very middle-of-the-road Pop music. By the later 1970s, that didn't seem to hurt her -- but then again, she was young (of the Baby Boom generation).

I, myself, would not put Sergio Mendes (or certainly Lani Hall) in the same category as swing crooners like Tony Bennett. (Unless maybe someone regards Lani as being akin to a lounge Jazz singer.)
Sure, Lani really was Jazz-Pop, but she was so much more deeply into Brasilian music than the typical older Jazz-Pop (crooner) -type singers.

Lani was much younger than Tony and Andy Williams, and Johnny Mathis.
In fact, she was about the same age as many popular and "hip" Rock and Soul musicians of the time. She should have been at a near-perfect age in the early 1970s to break out.
(She wouldn't have (ever, in fact) appealed to teeny-boppers, but to more mature 20-something and maybe 30-something women -- sure.)

I am not sure how, exactly, Lani could have had this "image problem" that Michael speaks of. For one thing, it seems that very few people even knew who she was -- besides ardent B'66 fans -- who probably had no problem with whatever image they might have perceived her as having, whatever exactly that would have been, anyway.
I am not sure how someone who is obscure could have an "image problem" (in _any_ cultural context/scene).

I suppose, it would be more plausible to suggest that Sergio might have had such an "image problem."
But even Sergio wasn't that much old(er). He never was a Rock (or Soul) musician, and he never attempted to market/present himself as such.
In fact, the narrative that begins that recent Jazz Times article on Lani paints Brasil '66's impact in terms of having made "Easy Listening" "hip" or "cool" -- for the time, but that was 1966 and 1967 (and maybe 1968).
")
In fact, Pop culture history shows examples of artists who have successfully re-invented their image and turned around their careers.


But I am dubious about many contrived narratives that Journalists like to peg on artists and events and trends, etc. ("grain of salt") - whether it's Michael Hagerty's or the narrative that is presented by the author of the Jazz Times article.
By 1970, Brasil '66 was just as MOR to Boomers as any other MOR act. The Top 40 hits had stopped coming two years before. And any "exotic" flavor was no longer exotic four years after the band launched. If anything, Brasil '66 was the last gasp of Bossa Nova as a popular music form in this country---the end of a string that started with "Black Orpheus" in 1959 for those who were paying attention and with "Girl From Ipanema" in 1964 for those who weren't (it was inescapable).

Re: Carpenters and "Superstar"---you're once again confusing a cover of a hit with a cover of a song where the mass audience wasn't familiar with the original.

The audience knew who Lani was---during that hot streak of 1968, Brasil '66 was on TV a lot. By the time SUN DOWN LADY came out in '72, some people might have forgotten, but if not having a negative image was enough, Renee' Armand would have been a star on the strength of THE RAIN BOOK. The standard had been re-set by Carole King and Joni Mitchell.

I don't know why you have such trouble letting this go. Lani Hall had talent and the support of a record company owned by her husband that, for much of the 70s, was practically minting money. And still she couldn't get closer to a hit than "Never Say Never Again" as a solo artist. Whether or not you agree with what I'm saying, the end result has been the same for the very nearly 50 years since Lani went solo. You're not going to wake up tomorrow, find it was all a dream and that she's been bigger than Streisand.
 
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Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Michael pin-points 1969 as a year of transition in mainstream hit pop radio tastes and record sales.

How _gradual_ was the decline in B'66's record sales? According to Michael, it was pretty rapid (throughout later 1968 and into 1969 and onwards).
I could have sworn we've done this before, but maybe not.

Singles (peak position in Billboard's Hot 100 in parentheses)

1966
Mais Que Nada (#47)
Chove Chuva (#71)

1967
For Me (#98)
Night and Day (#82)
The Frog (#106)

1968
A Little Help From My Friends (did not chart)
The Look of Love (#4)
The Fool On The Hill (#6)
Scarborough Fair (#16)

1969
Pretty World (#62)
Dock of the Bay (#66)
Wichita Lineman (#95)

1970
Norwegian Wood (#107)
For What It's Worth (#101)
Chelsea Morning (did not chart)

Arguably, that's not terribly gradual. They had two undeniable hits within six months of each other, one near-miss and then a string of stiffs culminating in a song that did not chart. And those last five, Intuitive, were covers of familiar songs by other artists (Joni Mitchell's "Chelsea Morning" being the least familiar).


Albums (peak position on Billboard's Top 200 album chart in parentheses)

1966
Herb Alpert Presents Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 (#7)

1967
Equinox (#24)

1968
Look Around (#5)
The Fool On The Hill (#3)

1969
Crystal Illusions (#33)
Ye-Me-Le (#71)

1970
Stillness (#130)

The only thing different about the album picture is they did have a hit right off the bat with the debut album. Then, a near-miss, two undeniable hits within six months, and stiffs getting worse each time out from 1969 onward.

Also worth noting---the first Brasil '66 album peaked in a week (December 10, 1966) where only four of the Top 10 albums were rock (THE MONKEES, SUPREMES A GO-GO, THE MAMAS AND PAPAS and REVOLVER). It was still very much an adult-oriented chart at that point, with the Dr. Zhivago soundtrack at #2, The Sound of Music soundtrack at #4, Herb's WHAT NOW MY LOVE at #6, Herb's GOING PLACES at #8 and Lou Rawls' SOULIN' at #10.

Flash forward six months exactly---to the June 10, 1967 chart, when EQUINOX peaked at #24. Only three of the top ten were adult-oriented music---Herb's SOUNDS LIKE at #4, Andy Williams' BORN FREE at #6, and the Dr. Zhivago soundtrack at #8.

A year and a month after that, when LOOK AROUND peaked at #5 on the July 13, 1968 chart, it was sharing the top ten with artists like Cream and Jimi Hendrix.

And six months later, when FOOL ON THE HILL became Brasil '66's highest-charting album, peaking at #3 on January 11, 1969, they and Glen Campbell were the only adult acts in the top ten albums. Brasil '66, Glen and Jose Feliciano were the only ones in the top 20, and they, Glen, Jose' and Richard Harris were the only ones in the top 30.

Six months after that, even Brasil '66 couldn't get in the top 30 albums as CRYSTAL ILLUSIONS stalled at #33.

Basically, time did what time does---and music moved with it.
 
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Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Here is my explanation --
In simple terms --
The impact/success of each record release (45 or LP, whatever) is based on the individual merits of each release -- independent/irrespective of any previous or subsequent releases.

I would go as far as to assert -- based on this reasoning of mine -- that, had Sergio created and released singles (arrangements, song choices, productions) that were as exciting and compelling as what he had been doing in the hey-dey of his success (1966-1968), Brasil '66 would have continued to have enjoyed hit singles and have remained viable in the U.S. pop market-place.
Were that true, no form of music would ever be out of style and every record would be a hit as long as it were a truly excellent recording. And we know that's not the case.

Your reasoning also suggests that chart failure is an indication of a lack of quality----that a lot of truly great stuff that simply was out of tune with the times or didn't get sufficient traction in the marketplace is somehow inferior.


"Disco Duck" peaked at #1 in Billboard.

"Born to Run" peaked at #23.


...and peaking at #47, "Mais Que Nada" was far from setting the world on fire.

It wasn't until "The Look of Love", heavily promoted by A&M in conjunction with Brasil '66 performing the song on the Oscar telecast (and I'd love to know the back story on why it was Sergio on the show and not Dusty Springfield, whose performance of the song in "Casino Royale" is what got the song nominated), that Brasil '66 had a hit single.

Which Janis Hansen sang lead on.
 
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Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
I have skimmed over the last three pages of this thread.

I witnessed the "shift" first-hand, as I started working in our little music store not long after it opened in the mid '60s. By 1970 I was managing it, and also doing all the ordering and selling.

I can testify that by the time I got into the business, Herb and Sergio's heyday had passed. The Carpenters were seen as cool by adults and a lot of girls, including my younger sisters, but they were NEVER seen as "hip" by anybody. A lot of people who did like their music were, as has been discussed on the Carpenters forum, closeted fans. (Like I was.) I remember playing the oldies side of Now and Then in the store and a guy who was browsing records was surprised at the rock'n'roll sound and said "that's the Carpenters?" He was almost in disbelief. He also did not buy their album.

Herb was really stuck because he wasn't really a singer and thus couldn't shift over to the "singer/songwriter" style that got popular in the early '70s. Plus, he was burned-out by touring at that time, so he took his hiatus from '70 to '73. Sergio, however, tried a major style shift with the Stillness album in '70. As far as the material not being as "exciting" as his debut album...well, that's just one guy's opinion. I personally find "Chelsea Morning" just as exciting as "Mas Que Nada," and I still fail to see why "Righteous Life" and "For What It's Worth" didn't move singles. But at some point, in popular culture, it gets down to where quality doesn't matter as much as image.

Plus there was that little problem with the group name.... "'66" made them sound instantly dated. By the time they changed it to '77, the damage was already done. What hip person in 1970 is going to buy a group with "'66" as its name? Simply put, they lost their momentum and people had moved on, even though they had some great singles potential with songs like "Gone Forever" and "So Many People" from their next album. But it was too late, plus those songs were heavily orchestrated and thus, sounded more like "adult" records, not "hip" records.

I've had this same debate over on the Carpenters forum....uber-fans can't seem to accept the fact that EVERY artist, no matter who they are, has an arc. Up and down. Once the downward part starts, it's nearly impossible to go up again. And when an artist DOES pull it off, the rebound is usually short-lived. Herb and Sergio both had this happen...twice to Herb. But they had to make MAJOR changes to do it. (Sergio dropped his group and released an MOR ballad that didn't even sound like him, and Herb first went to vocals, and then went to dance/R&B territory.) Both these "comebacks" resulted in hits, but not many...nothing to compare to the artists' heydays.
 

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Michael has pin-pointed 1969 as the year of this shift. (A matter of a mere year -- As if, in 1968, listeners were calling up radio stations and expressing their enthusiasm and love for B'66 covers of current hits -- but that, within a year or two, the trends/tastes had strongly shifted in listener preferences).
See: Disco, 1979 vs. 1980; Country crossovers, 1980-1981 vs 1982-1983; Big-band Jazz/Rock (BS&T, Chicago, Chase, Lighthouse) 1969-71 vs. 1972 onward (and virtually any music trend ever)
 
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JMK

Well-Known Member
Contributor
A couple of sidebars to this exchange -- re: Brasil *'66* being out of date, etc., I still remember (or at least *think* I remember LOL) Bob Hope's introduction of them on the Oscar telecast in 1968, where he said "They've been so busy they haven't had time to update their name." Also, I just noticed the other day while perusing eBay that all of the print ads for the "Look of Love" single (a "smash", as it's described), it's Karen not Janis in the pics. :wink: I still can't remember who was on the Oscar telecast (i.e., Karen or Janis) -- can anyone else?
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
I remember an interview with Sergio where he said the original idea was to have the group name change with each album. He said, "We would become like wine, a vintage sound." Then he said Herb (or possibly Jerry) told him, "That would be cute, but it would be confusing."
 

Rudy

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Staff member
Site Admin
(and I'd love to know the back story on why it was Sergio on the show and not Dusty Springfield, whose performance of the song in "Casino Royale" is what got the song nominated)
Back in the day, I believe it was not unusual to have someone other than the original artist (and/or award nominee) perform the song. I wish I could think up a few more examples, but I don't follow film and the Oscars at all. The most glaring example I can think of is Phil Collins' "Against All Odds" which, instead of being invited to perform his own hit, was performed by Ann Reinking at the Oscars and heavily criticized for the bad performance (which was also lip-synced and performed with a dance group).
 

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I remember an interview with Sergio where he said the original idea was to have the group name change with each album. He said, "We would become like wine, a vintage sound." Then he said Herb (or possibly Jerry) told him, "That would be cute, but it would be confusing."
That makes sense, given this is what came before:

41CEQS79JRL._AC_UL436_.jpg
 

Rudy

ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
Staff member
Site Admin
Brasil '65 might be my favorite of all of Sérgio's albums, and one of his albums I return to the most. I feel at this point, he had honed his Bossa-jazz side down to the elements on this recording, creating a smooth and sophisticated sounding album. Adding Bud Shank was a brilliant move. This was also his first recording in the US.
 
Out of curiosity, I wish I could hear these, so I could better understand what J.M.K. is saying -- as a reference, at least.
Mr. JMK sounds like he has high musical standards and a very good ear. I would be intimidated by the prospect of being in a band with him (or on the same stage, in any way, for that matter)!
Sergio, too, was a demanding, stern band-leader, in his own right -- from what I've gathered.
Oh, I had never read page #4 of this thread before (before I had posted that).

I see it now -- from Februrary --
Brasil '66 singles
forum.amcorner.com/threads/brasil-66-singles.14120/post-173204

I got to hear the recording (that was posted to YouTube).
 
Actually, there *is* a Brasil '65 Beatles cover, as I've discussed previously here. It's a really interesting "bridge" from the Atlantic sound to the Brasil '66 sound. Weirdly, the entire single isn't on YouTube, but the following snippet is (with some kind of scary pics of Annamaria Valle LOL):

Today, I had some time and actually read through the first 4 or 5 pages of this thread (which is the first that I undertook that task).

I don't see where this (Sergio doing a pre-1966 Beatle "cover"/adaptation) was mentioned previously? Was this mentioned (previously) on another thread?
 
[…] adults between 35 and 50. Not a heavy record-buying demographic at the time, and those who did overwhelmingly bought albums, not singles.
If I am not mistaken, several of Herb Alpert's million-selling records (in the 1960s) were 45s (singles), right?

In fact, his last big hit was a single : "This Guy's in Love with You" (1968 -- released soon after its T.V. appearance).

Wikipedia article about that song states:
"released as a single recording, and it reached No. 1 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 pop singles chart in June of that year
remaining in the top position for four weeks"

And, my point here is -- I think it is fair and safe to assume that most of those who purchased (and enjoyed) Herb's 45s were the older demographic and not boomers (or no?).

As a side note, "This Guy's in Love with You" probably found its way onto (at least one) LP (album) release, and maybe that (LP) sold well.
I see no mention of any LP release on that Wikipedia article. (I'm sorry, I'm too lazy to search this forum for the answer. Don't worry about that, for now.)


But then again, Michael's statement has a (possibly-important) qualifier: "at the time" -- Maybe he means, by 1969 (and into the early 1970s) (-- as opposed to earlier in the 1960s, before this shift that he has been talking about).




Extra note (about how I use this website/forum):

I am (intending to, at least) quoting Michael's post #48 ( brasil-66-singles.14120/page-2#post-153735 )
but, when I click the "Quote" button, it says something about "multi-quote" and I am not sure how that works.
I guess I can find documentation for how to use this forum (whatever software that Rudy has installed on his server, to power this forum).
For now, as I have been doing, I use "Reply", since that is the only thing that works for me.
 

Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
If I am not mistaken, several of Herb Alpert's million-selling records (in the 1960s) were 45s (singles), right?

In fact, his last big hit was a single : "This Guy's in Love with You" (1968 -- released soon after its T.V. appearance).

Wikipedia article about that song states:
"released as a single recording, and it reached No. 1 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 pop singles chart in June of that year
remaining in the top position for four weeks"

And, my point here is -- I think it is fair and safe to assume that most of those who purchased (and enjoyed) Herb's 45s were the older demographic and not boomers (or no?).

As a side note, "This Guy's in Love with You" probably found its way onto (at least one) LP (album) release, and maybe that (LP) sold well.
I see no mention of any LP release on that Wikipedia article. (I'm sorry, I'm too lazy to search this forum for the answer. Don't worry about that, for now.)


But then again, Michael's statement has a (possibly-important) qualifier: "at the time" -- Maybe he means, by 1969 (and into the early 1970s) (-- as opposed to earlier in the 1960s, before this shift that he has been talking about).




Extra note (about how I use this website/forum):

I am (intending to, at least) quoting Michael's post #48 ( brasil-66-singles.14120/page-2#post-153735 )
but, when I click the "Quote" button, it says something about "multi-quote" and I am not sure how that works.
I guess I can find documentation for how to use this forum (whatever software that Rudy has installed on his server, to power this forum).
For now, as I have been doing, I use "Reply", since that is the only thing that works for me.
Some serious out of context editing there, Intuitive.

The quote was about MOR radio stations,---and it read:

But what you have to remember about MOR stations is that their audience was largely adults between 35 and 50. Not a heavy record-buying demographic at the time, and those who did overwhelmingly bought albums, not singles. So heavy airplay on an MOR station would rarely (novelty records excepted) move the needle on the 45, but it could sell LPs.
The key words are "overwhelmingly" and "rarely". As opposed to "exclusively" and "never".

Playing "This Guy's In Love With You" on MOR stations did sell copies of THE BEAT OF THE BRASS. It was the number one album in the country for two weeks.

And, no---it's not fair to assume that buyers of Herb's singles were the older demographic and not Boomers. In fact, Herb Alpert had a string of Top 40 hits, and in another post in this thread, I talk about how his pop appeal to younger audiences kept other MOR artists afloat as Herb, and to a lesser extent, Sergio, drew them into the "Easy Listening" sections of record stores.

"This Guy's In Love With You" was a HUGE record on Top 40 stations. The single was number one on Billboard's Hot 100 for four weeks. It was top ten for two months. The appeal---especially to females under 35---was undeniable. But it was also mass appeal. It was one of the last hit songs moms, daughters and granddaughters had in common as a favorite for a while.
 
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Michael Hagerty

Well-Known Member
Contributor
If I am not mistaken, several of Herb Alpert's million-selling records (in the 1960s) were 45s (singles), right?

In fact, his last big hit was a single : "This Guy's in Love with You" (1968 -- released soon after its T.V. appearance).

Wikipedia article about that song states:
"released as a single recording, and it reached No. 1 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 pop singles chart in June of that year
remaining in the top position for four weeks"

And, my point here is -- I think it is fair and safe to assume that most of those who purchased (and enjoyed) Herb's 45s were the older demographic and not boomers (or no?).

As a side note, "This Guy's in Love with You" probably found its way onto (at least one) LP (album) release, and maybe that (LP) sold well.
I see no mention of any LP release on that Wikipedia article. (I'm sorry, I'm too lazy to search this forum for the answer. Don't worry about that, for now.)


But then again, Michael's statement has a (possibly-important) qualifier: "at the time" -- Maybe he means, by 1969 (and into the early 1970s) (-- as opposed to earlier in the 1960s, before this shift that he has been talking about).




Extra note (about how I use this website/forum):

I am (intending to, at least) quoting Michael's post #48 ( brasil-66-singles.14120/page-2#post-153735 )
but, when I click the "Quote" button, it says something about "multi-quote" and I am not sure how that works.
I guess I can find documentation for how to use this forum (whatever software that Rudy has installed on his server, to power this forum).
For now, as I have been doing, I use "Reply", since that is the only thing that works for me.
Ironically, Intuitive, there's a post of mine from August that answers the whole thing---that apparently you read and "liked" at the time:

During the TJB heyday, Boomers bought most of the singles, while adults bought most of the albums. The TJB was important because it blurred some of those lines---adults who liked a TJB song might buy the single if they weren't sure about the album---and more Boomers bought TJB albums than pretty much any other adult-appealing act.
 
What we're talking about is how a vocal group, with its image fully formed as a middle-of-the-road act in the mid-60s, could move forward in 1969, when the wheels came off for that type of pop music act.

To put it in perspective, here's a video that pretty much crystallizes the problem. Suppress your fandom of Brasil '66 for a moment and try to look at this as someone in their late teens or early 20s who reveres the Beatles and the "authenticity" of the late 60s rock era, as it begins to transition into the singer-songwriter movement:



That's death, right there. I personally love Andy Williams and Sergio (and I had a massive crush on Lani)---but even if the group could have somehow made themselves as 1970-hip-now as the "Stillness" album cover suggested, nobody was gonna buy it coming from them.
I wonder how many of those young, hip, Rock and Soul fans of the late 1960s (who had these cultural hang-ups/sensibilities that Michael speaks of) were watching the Andy Williams show. (That clip is from 1968, or maybe 1969, right?)

I wonder if they cared about what, and who was on that show.

I suppose, if I am not mistaken, the typical middle-class American household back then (51 years ago) had only one television set, so -- the senario might be something like -- the teenager would be walking past the living room with that show on, and maybe Mom and or Dad were watching it?
 
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