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Carpenters "Collected" Vinyl Release

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by New Horizons., Sep 9, 2017.

  1. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    I will only purchase another product from UMG if--and, only if--it is overseen personally by Richard Carpenter.
    I was afraid UMG would do something of this nature,
    too bad....
  2. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member

    It really is! I can only imagine what they will do in 20 years to their product should Richard pass on then.
  3. Chris

    Chris Active Member

    It's not a surprise to me that this was an unapproved release. The CD version from a few years ago looked cheaply done and slapped together. The LP contains all the same photos and design as I'm sure you've all seen. I was not expecting much from the LP version, but ordered it anyway to have the larger photos inside the gatefold cover. It's nice to see Karen's solo photo printed large. I just wish they would have chosen a better one of Richard for his large photo. It really makes me ask "what were they thinking?". You'd think it wouldn't be that hard to get a good designer for this stuff.
    CarpentersToYou and Chris May like this.
  4. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

    If you remember, this set was also an issue back in 2006 when it was issued as The Ultimate Collection due to using the Remastered Classics mixes. Apparently Richard had not signed off back then on using those mixes.
    Chris likes this.
  5. Someday

    Someday Active Member

    Hmm. I cannot see why people go mad for compilations. Unless it's a properly authorised release that hangs together, what's the point? Albums are supposed to be a work of art; beginning-middle-end; a body of work that ties together. Cherry-picking tracks from all over just isn't on. Add to this the often-crappy artwork and it's pointless really ...
  6. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    There were many reasons to get excited about this vinyl release before we found out that Richard did not approve of its release.

    • It was the first Carpenters limited edition LP release in a long time.
    • Music On Vinyl is a very well known label
    • 180 g White Vinyl a 1st time Carpenters ever and 2 at that
    • A gatefold, protective sleeve and 4 pg liner booklet
    • 2 Bonus tracks never on Vinyl
    The boom in Vinyl has been going on for quite a while and there has been nothing from the Carpenters and then all of a sudden we hear about this release. The list above is almost everything we could have dreamed a collectors item could be in vinyl from our favorite duo.

    I’ve got a couple Music on Vinyl releases and while they sound like digital transfers there still worth listening to and still fun to spin. I won’t pass judgement on Carpenters Collected until I have it in my hands and give this a spin. From the outside this looks like a nice collectors item, heck I’ve added other items to my collection that were not approved by Richard that I wouldn’t think of giving up.

    A quick look at one of the websites selling this item thesoundofvinyl.com shows this has already Sold Out. Or could Richard have already pulled its release by lawsuit, in any case I’m glad to have 1 of 3000 on the way.

    Collected: White Numbered Vinyl
  7. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    Technically (and legally), Richard's approval is not needed for anything Universal has available. So anyone who pays the licensing fee can have the music, as that is likely part of the contractual agreement between Richard and the label. I would think a contract includes whether or not the principal artist(s) needs to approve releases. And that works against the record label's interests to have that kind of limitation--an artist could stonewall any releases in that case, if they were upset with the label, and that kind of stalemate could lead right back to the courtroom. The real answer here is that Richard should take back ownership of the masters for himself, but given the way the industry works, that is a near impossibility. I work with another artist/band that had releases under MCA and GRP, and they essentially can't even touch the masters at this point.

    I think a better word here might be "endorsed."

    I personally think the white vinyl is a cool idea, as is the idea of a limited edition set. Too bad the cover art and mastering are suspect on this one. It also makes me wonder which masters Universal sent to MOV to get it pressed.
    Rick-An Ordinary Fool and Chris like this.
  8. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

    I've got scads n scads of mint and fine n vg CarpenterS vinyl. This issue isn't regarded as my be all and end all. The mere excitement of release from the duo nearly 50 years since Ticket to Ride is. Perhaps this 180 gram stuff was marketing gimmick. Still we have a numbered keepsake to have n hold. Til death I do part.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
    Rick-An Ordinary Fool and Chris like this.
  9. I played my partner it the other evening when she was at my flat, she likes the Carpenters but isn’t as keen as I am to go and buy albums herself. She isn’t an audiophile but knows what a record should sound like as she has heard me play a lot of the albums. Her appraisal was very negative indeed!, she couldn’t believe how poor it sounded and The cover well she said that it was terrible and agreed with me that the quality was shabby and then some!. Just because they have put it in a nice external plastic sleeve with a bright gold sticker didn’t cut the mustard I’m afraid.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
    Chris likes this.
  10. It’s a shame that Richard wasn’t provided with the finished product as for certain it wouldn’t have seen the light of day if he had anything to do with it, he’s obviously a man who wants to maintain the high standards of all the original work, it’s a legacy that needs protecting - god bless him. All these record companies who can release without asking him first should be ashamed!, they must have knew that he would be really upset when he saw it but decided to release it anyways!.
  11. Chris Mills

    Chris Mills Well-Known Member

    I have not purchased or listened to this vinyl release, but after reading some of the posts, this compilation will add very little to the Carpenters legacy. Disappointing hardly describes what’s happening.
  12. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    It was noted a few pages back by Graeme that Collected was mastered by Rinus Hooning at Record Industry B.V. I did a quick google because I was not aware of who this person was or where it was. It appears that Record Industry BV is in Europe. There address appears to be Haarlem, Netherlands.

    Here is a video just up'd a few months ago of the inside tour of Record Industry, (Europe's oldest and world's largest vinyl pressing plants) The tour is guided by Rinus Hooning. So this appears to be the person who is credited as mastering Collected. It's pretty darn interesting to see this all come together in a vinyl pressing plant.

    English subtitles appeared for me so it was fully understandable, you might have to click on subtitles on you tube's menu for your location. The tour stars at about 4:15

    Jeff and Chris Mills like this.
  13. Carpe diem

    Carpe diem Well-Known Member

    I love this forum! Everyone that purchased this could have said; "love it!, great buy!, the artwork and sound is superb!, you should order yours today!" - but instead, people sharing their real feelings and reviews about this product. Thanks to all for sharing:)!
    Chris Mills likes this.
  14. Chris Mills

    Chris Mills Well-Known Member

  15. Chris Mills

    Chris Mills Well-Known Member

    “Ladies and gentlemen, may I direct your attention to the center ring where hollow princes and shallow kings perform their tricks while justice swings side to side. And may I remind you once again of the spectacle about to begin, now performing at the darkest end of the big top. Don’t forget to take your place in line, leave your mind behind and join the procession of the people, by the people, and for the people, Your own wonderful parade.”

    Music industry rip off once again, please think twice before ordering this release if you want to see the Carpenters legacy survive intact beyond 50 years.
    Carpe diem and newvillefan like this.
  16. Chris Mills

    Chris Mills Well-Known Member

    Great to watch and learn, interesting to observe that as far as I could detect, only one person had protective hand gear when handling the product. At the end of the day, no matter how much precision is adhered to during the manufacturing process, if the origin of the studio recording is not correctly preserved, vinyl will not save a recording from being badly reproduced.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  17. Graeme

    Graeme Active Member

    I inspected my records after reading this and one of them has a couple of yellow steaks in it and the other has a few black specs embedded it.

    I don't have any other Carpenters albums on vinyl so I can't really make a fair comparison regarding their quality. But I've been listening to the remastered 30th edition CDs of Carpenters and A Song For You today and comparing them with sides 1 and 2 of the first record. To my ears Karen's lead vocals do sound less bright and more muted compared to the cd versions. The records play quieter on the line out option on my stereo with quite a bit more bass and less treble. If I turn the bass down a notch or two and the treble up a bit it sounds closer to the CDs but still not as 'open' sounding.

    This has been interesting. I'm going to re-listen to sides 3 and 4 tomorrow. What I think I may discover is that I prefer A Kind Of Hush with more bass and will have to crank it up in future when listening to the CD or mp3 version.

    I may keep an eye out for an original Carpenters record or two to further my vinyl education. Out of interest, how do the remixed Carpenters tracks on on vinyl compare with the CD versions that were released at the same time (for example the Only Yesterday greatest album?)
    Carpe diem likes this.
  18. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    I'm a bit confused, please correct me if I'm wrong here. I was reading the resource site about the Collected Series on CD which brought up the Ultimate Collection from the Netherlands.

    So in 2006 when the Ultimate Collection from the NL 3 CD set arrived we determined these contained the original album mixes (remastered classic series). This set went out of print fairly quickly being replaced by a similar track listing except for the switch from Goofus and Sandy. The way to tell if you had the original set that went out of print was that it included Goofus while the set that it replaced had Sandy. The set that it replaced however did not have the original mixes like the first set but were instead nearly all remixes. It was thought that Richard possibly found out about the original mixes being released without his approval thus was quickly replaced with the remixes.

    So then in 2013 when Carpenters Collected 3 CD set was released it contained the original mixes (remastered classics series)

    I guess we don't know that Richard really pulled the first NL release because if he had then why would the original mixes be released again on the Carpenters Collected 3 CD set in 2013? Why wouldn't that set have contained the remixes. Which leads us to where we are now with the LP being released, most likely the LP is taken from the masters of the 2013 Carpenters Collected CD set. I guess I'm a bit confused, was Richard not aware that the 2013 CD's contained the original mixes?
    Jeff and Harry like this.
  19. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator

    Bingo. And to take it a step further, now one can see why a lot of these releases get pushed back on the stuff that Richard has input in. He is extremely meticulous, and a crappy cover photo and resolution, sloppy or spotted vinyl, and incorrect masters pulled all would have been corrected had he been given a ref to analyze first. He wasn't even aware of this one until he got ahold of my copy and pulled it apart.

    Of course I'm sure the folks at UMG also know what that means in terms of dragging out the timeline. However in order to protect the legacy, who's gonna do a more thorough job than Richard? Meanwhile, the label wants to cash in on the trend, yet keep folks happy. Kind of a double-edged sword.
    Don Malcolm, Jeff and Chris like this.
  20. Song4uman

    Song4uman Active Member

    Different people like different things.
  21. Exactly my thoughts. Yes, COLLECTED on CD is identical to the withdrawn ULTIMATE COLLECTION from 2006 - all original album mixes taken from the Remastered Classics series.
  22. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    This is an official UMG release so I’m really shocked at this, given his historical reputation for control. Sounds like he doesn’t much have any, any more.
  23. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    So I guess it's safe to assume that the Collected 2 LP set will contain the original album mixes like the 2013 CD version (remastered classics series) or does it contain possible remixes? I guess I'm itching to know for sure while I'm waiting for my LP's to arrive. Can anyone confirm that has the LP set, are they original album mixes or remixes?
  24. Carpe diem

    Carpe diem Well-Known Member

    In January 2017 Richard Carpenter sues UMG for $2,000,000 for getting screwed out of royalties for Carpenters songs. They settle later out of court for an undisclosed sum. Really now, how much creative input/control would UMG give Rich on this project?! Would Richard even want to be involved with it? After all, in his eyes UMG tried to do him dirty. If he is shut-out on the box set as well, a lot of people are really going to be pissed if the product is once again sub-par.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
    Chris Mills likes this.
  25. Graeme

    Graeme Active Member

    Hmm, after more comparisons I completely understand what you're saying about them not sounding dynamic. As well as listening to the remastered CDs, I dug out my mum's ancient Aretha Franklin's Aretha Now vinyl album to see what vinyl should sound like. It has a far more open and sparkling sound, though I still have to crank up the volume on the line out option compared to the CD option.

    Carpenters Collected lacks this openness. Things sound muddier somehow, more concentrated in the center and the bass can occasionally get a bit boomy (I Know I Need To Be In Love and Solitare). If sound were a paint then these would be matte rather than gloss.

    I take back my initial impressions of these records having more depth than the CDs (with the exception TAKOH, which I still rather like the sound of here). I think I was blinded by my excitement of having my first Carpenters album on vinyl ☺ Major kudos to your ears.

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