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Carpenters "Collected" Vinyl Release

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by New Horizons., Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Sue

    Sue Member

    Has anyone got the black version yet? I forgot to cancel my Amazon "Black" copy and it arrived as a white one! So I have two white!
    I thought if I'm ending up with two copies I may as well have one white and one black but no even though Amazon say its black vinyl on their page?
  2. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    I know, that's strange. Amazon can't predict what they are getting--the first copies being pressed are all white, so the black won't be pressed until the whites have sold. The way to tell it is white, is if it has the serial number sticker on the back. The black vinyl will not have the limited edition serial number on it. (Quick way to tell if it is white or black.)
    Sue likes this.
  3. ars nova

    ars nova Active Member

    i received my copy today, and, I also received white, 2090.
  4. I haven't listened to my copy yet...which version is "Ticket To Ride" the 1969 version or 1973? I prefer the 1973 version but the 1969 version has Karen still growing into that "sound".....
  5. My copy #1033 white vinyl, no grey or black streaks, when I listen to it, I will use headphones.....
  6. Amoeba Music online $29 free shipping, I ordered mine on November 8th, received in the mail November 13th
  7. Richard may be fussy about stuff, but if he is attached to anything Carpenters related, it's going to be of the best quality. Am not buying the vinyl boxed set but will replace some of my favorites, Like "Ticket", "Horizon", "VOTH", "Lovelines", I just can't afford to buy the set all at once, but have to resort to buying them individually...
  8. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    So I was fortunate enough to have 1.5 hrs tonight to compare side 1 of Collected to my original LP's and write some notes along the way. I'm no expert but I know when I like one recording over the other. To be honest, I don't break out my original LP's as often as some of you guys here, surely not an everyday thing for me. Breaking out the first 4 original LP's had me realizing just how great they sound, my originals are in great shape and I keep them thoroughly cleaned and in rice paper sleeves.

    Let me also say that if you have Collected and none of the other original LP's than you will think Collected sounds great. My white vinyl is clean and very quiet throughout which makes for a great listen. I have to agree with Wayne's assessment earlier in this thread that when you start comparing Collected to the original vinyl the sound is noticeable. I also want to be clear that I'm in no way trashing Collected because it does sound good and I'm happy with my set but when you go and compare it to the originals, I favor the originals in sound quality over Collected.

    Here are some of my notes if you care to read further.

    Carpenters Collected vs Original LP’s

    Ticket To Ride
    Collected Volume is lower than SP-4205, there’s just no separation between the use of instruments and vocals. Karen’s vocal not as crisp or sharp as the 4205. One can immediately hear the openness and higher treble on the 4205. In addition, I compared it to my original Offering LP WLP SP-4205 and at the same volume level as above it sounds even more open than my TTR LP, the volume almost sounds a bit louder on the WLP LP but still exhibits the same clarity and crispness of the TTR LP. The opening piano bars just pop on the WLP & TTR along with Karen & Richard’s vocals more up front. This song sounds best on my TTR & Offering original Lp’s SP-4205.

    (They Long To Be) Close To You
    Collected has a much softer sound and the bass seems to be stronger creating what appears to be less treble sound. The piano and drums seem farther from the listener however the trumpet sounds good but not as crisp sounding as the original LP. The Snare Drum & Trumpet sounds much better on the original SP-4271 LP ochre label, it’s got better definition, crisper sounding. Nice treble sound and the drums sound better overall, Karen’s vocal sounds better on the original LP. This song sounds best on the original LP SP-4271

    We’ve Only Just Begun
    This song is super quiet on the white vinyl which makes for a great listening experience however the sound is not as good to me as the original LP SP-4271. The clarinet is so much better on the original LP, it's really open and clear...on collected it’s ok but seems again to have a lower volume creating a less treble sound and more bass. There are times when Richard’s backing vocals of oohs and aahs come in with such nice separation on the original LP with headphones it’s incredible to hear but those same sounds are less dominate and softer on Collected. Song sounds best on the original LP SP-4271

    For All We Know
    This song actually sounds pretty good on Collected, Karen’s vocal is strong and clear. The ahhs during the song are not bad and sound close to the original LP. However the original LP sounds much brighter which makes Karen appear closer to the listener song has closer mic appeal on the original LP. It’s a close one but to me it sounds better on the original envelope LP SP-3502

    Rainy Days And Mondays
    Here is where the difference really shines, the original LP just pops on this song, from the opening harmonica so crisp and clear, when Karen comes in nice vocal, great treble sounds like she is right in your lap with headphones. I always loved this song the best from the original LP SP-3502, no reverb and I love it. The sax in the middle much better sounding on the original LP it really pops in your ears with headphones, very punchy. Sax not as effective to me on Collected, it’s loud but has a more bass feel to the sound.

    If you only have Collected than this song will sound great and my white vinyl is super quiet on this track, however once you compare it to the original LP you will hear it lacks treble and the backing instruments and ahhs sound brighter. I hate to use the work muted but it’s just softer sounding to me on Collected. This song sounds best on the original LP SP-3502

    This is another song you will hear a big difference in sound from Collected vs the original LP. Collected has a lower sound with more bass, when Karen starts to belt out some of the lyrics it's more muted on Collected, yeah it gets louder but just has less punch. The song has better stereo separation and the instruments sound better on the original LP. I prefer the sound on the original LP SP-3502.

    Bless The Beasts And Children
    The opening piano is much brighter and clearer sounding on the original LP. When Karen’s starts her first vocal you can tell her vocal is lower in sound on Collected than the original LP and it’s especially noticeable further along on the song when it gets louder. Collected just sounds like it was mastered lower and vocals and backing vocals less punchy. I really prefer the sound from the original LP SP-3511, it’s just a nicer balance of treble and bass with vocals being a bit more defined. This song sounds best on the original LP SP-3511.

    I'm not sure there is a need to continue on with the rest of the comparison as there seems to be a trend. As I mentioned before I'm just not a huge fan of the Remastered Classics (original album mixes on CD) to me they should sound exactly like the original Lp's and while they are the original album mixes the mastering on the CD's don't have the same sound as the original LP's and I'm certain Collected is a digital transfer from those Remastered Classics CD masters.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    Don Malcolm and Jeff like this.
  9. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    Agreed--the samples from the three albums seems like a consistent trend. Probably best that I pass on it, then. Funny that someone with a parametric EQ and a good ear could probably tweak that entire set just enough to make it sound more natural, with minimal effort. Essentially, if you lock in on a lead vocal or instrument and EQ to make it sound as natural as possible, the rest of the track usually falls right into place. There is no telling what MOV was sent from UMG to work with on this one.

    Those were released around 1998, so it's hard to say if it was just a poor mastering job for CD, or if they are running up against the limitations of standard-resolution digital. There are subtle things that happen at 16-bit/44.1kHz digital that I can hear, for example, a slight roughness in the highs, and a reduction of reverb trails that make it sound subtly more "dry." We also don't know if the album masters were converted to digital at a higher bitrate (like 24-bit, and either 88.2kHz or 96kHz), then downsampled for CD. I would hope so, as that would mean a higher-resolution version would be available for future masterings. (Yes, even to vinyl.)

    There is also deterioration of the master tapes to deal with. While that would not result in a loss of separation between channels, slightly dulled highs, print-through, and tape dropouts are artifacts of any tape over time, some being more durable than others. Don't overlook that some of the albums in A&M's vaults were mastered to Ampex 456, which was one of the notorious formulations that had the case of "sticky shed syndrome," where the oxide was actually coming right off of the plastic base material. Those need to be properly baked to do a digital transfer (and that might only be good for one playback).

    And don't overlook the playback at home! :wink: CD players can and do sound different. Yet it is still easy to hear the difference between good and bad CD masterings.
  10. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

    A few years ago, I started to convert my original Carpenters LPs to digital, at 24-bit/96kHz, and authored them as DVD-Audio. When I was recording them into Adobe Audition, I noticed on the level meters that there were high frequencies coming off the LPs that were not present on the CDs of those titles (due to the limitations of the CD format I suppose). Those high frequencies are supposedly beyond the audible range of human hearing, but would possibly account for the more "open" sound of the LPs. Although I'm happy with my original vinyl, and won't be buying the new box set, for the sake of those who are, I certainly hope that those LPs weren't mastered from the 16/44.1 CD transfers! That would be
    "a dirty old shame" indeed!

    If the album masters were converted to digital at high resolution, I hope that high-res FLAC files show up for sale eventually, as I'd gladly buy them. (I never finished transferring my LPs, and when I built a new computer, I discovered that there were no Windows 10 drivers for my sound card, rendering it a very expensive piece of e-waste.) :sad:
    Rick-An Ordinary Fool likes this.
  11. Toolman

    Toolman Simple Man, Simple Dream

    Didn't order "Carpenters Collected" since I was buying the vinyl set, but just received my copy of "Cat Stevens Collected" (#001727) on silver vinyl. Haven't given either disk a spin yet. Cover art is a heavily stylized photo, so no issues with resolution there. Pretty excited to have both this and the C's set coming within three days of each other. Happy man.
  12. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    I still want to get the Huey Lewis Collected set. With titles from the Columbia (Sony/Legacy) family, MOV has done a really good job. As I mentioned earlier, Sony had been archiving their masters to the DSD format. So, the titles have a chance to sound quite good. The only downfall to Huey's set is that the first disc is front-loaded with all of the hits and there is not much noteworthy on the second.

    I have been using a TASCAM DA-40 for my needle drops, which is 24/96. One thing I noticed while editing in Izotope is that I could see the 27kHz resonance in my cartridge using the spectrum analyzer. Can't hear it, but it was interesting to see at any rate. (Kind of wish I had my previous cartridge, as it had a far shorter cantilever and apparently didn't have any resonance until maybe 100khz, as it was a diamond rod.)

    Long-range plan is to get a used DA-3000 which records in DSD. But I have other stuff to upgrade first. For now, the DA-40 is working well enough, and I can use the needle drops for playback around the house and in the car. Sounds really good!
  13. Don Malcolm

    Don Malcolm Well-Known Member

    It's an excellent compilation, featuring a lot of the forum's favorites (but not all).

    Here is a mashup of our Top 20 poll results and COLLECTED. Songs in bold are common to our list and the COLLECTED track list. Songs only in our top 20 are in regular type. Songs on COLLECTED that missed making our Top 20 (which is really a Top 24 due to tie votes) are shown in ALL CAPS. Makes for an interesting list, I think:

    A Song For You
    All of My Life
    All You Get From Love is a Love Song
    Another Song
    Close To You
    Crescent Noon
    For All We Know
    Goodbye to Love
    Hurting Each Other
    I Need to Be in Love

    Let Me Be The One
    (Merry Christmas, Darling)
    Only Yesterday
    Rainy Days & Mondays
    Road Ode
    This Masquerade
    Ticket to Ride
    Top of the World
    Touch Me When We're Dancing
    We've Only Just Begun
    Yesterday Once More

    You're the One

    The fourteen songs in bold would make for an exceptional single LP collection, IMO. You could just put it in chronological order (putting TICKET at the top even using the '73 remix):

    A: Ticket to Ride/Close to You/Only Just Begun/For All We Know/Rainy Days & Mondays/Superstar/Hurting Each Other
    B: Goodbye to Love/Yesterday Once More/Top of the World/Only Yesterday/I Need to Be In Love/All You Get From Love is A Love Song/Touch Me When We're Dancing

    What a record! Pure greatness just exploding out of the grooves...
  14. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    Did I miss it ?
    I am really interested in reading a review about how
    Still Crazy After All Theses Years
    This will tip the scales for me.......
  15. Song4uman

    Song4uman Active Member

    I think it sounds great but I am not nearly an audiophile like many others here.
    GaryAlan likes this.
  16. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

    The Remastered Classics CD’s were mastered to CD using the HDCD process, and since then all Carpenters CDS seem to be mastered in HDCD, which allows for 20-bit audio to be encoded, while allowing standard CD players (and if you rip the CD, the tracks will only be converted from) to play at 16-but. So the RC digital masters would most likely be 24 bit.
  17. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    I finally got around to listening to the 2nd LP today after I had thoroughly cleaned it. So as I prepare to listen to side 3 first up is the original album version of Yesterday Once More and I was excited to see how this sounded. What a complete let down and I heard what sounds like a defect in the vinyl, you know that sound of a needle hitting a really used vinyl and it exhibits that surface noise that comes and goes at every complete circle of the LP on the turntable? It's not a constant sound but the one that you hear every full complete spin and it's all the way through not only Yesterday Once More but also part of Jambalaya. Good grief, why did it have to be on YOM. I thought maybe there is more residue that I'm not getting off so I worked on it again paying attention to that specific area and to no avail the sound remains.

    Final results are that I'm not impressed with this set sound wise, even with that surface tick the sound is not up to par against the original LP's. It's really too bad because I had high hopes for this set and the white vinyl is so cool. I was so upset by this point that I did not bother listening to side 4 and wrapped it all back up and re-sealed the sticker.

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