CarpenterS Fan Club BURIED TREASURE topic

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Me thinks I'll give Yuka a shout out meself. Just wet my whistle with that Mr J post. Must know what's what for the sake of......you fill in the blank. I know my aspirations and knowledge is power. At the very least a fantasy of sorts will provide hours of hmmmm???
Jeff
 
This is the last address I have for Yuka Ogura:

[email protected]

Many times she's graciously and unselfishly advocated for me. I just emailed her pouring out my thoughts. I posted her address as it was noted at her website so I'm not divulging anything personal. But if any of ya want to...why not go directly to the source as I just did. Again, she's a very kind and gentle soul who loves loves loves K&R and routinely facilitates information through simple generosity. Beatin' round the bush is just that. I don't know about y'all but this garnering specific information regarding said text has been eatin' at me for eons.

Jeff, who cut to the chase
 
I think enough time has passed that what is printed in the MOOK in Japanese about the buried treasure tracks should not be kept a secret. The time has passed and we won't be getting these anyway so why not talk about them. I don't see the problem with interpreting the English translation.

That's a start Mr J but it's not complete.

I think that anything with a full lead from Karen or a finished track should have been considered for a Carpenters release. A comment like, "I ought to pull that out and put it on the new album"....makes me think he could have done that on any of the full Karen lead or finished tracks. The tracks without a full lead from Karen (at this point in time 2014) will never ever be released because Richard no longer has the recording voice he did 10 or 20 years ago and it just would not match up to Karen's younger voice. However the tracks with a full Karen lead or finished tracks should be considered as bonus tracks added to a future commemorative CD collection.

Perhaps, "Slaughter On Tenth Avenue" would make it to new release titled Carpenters go Halloween. :yikes: :winkgrin:
The best thing to do is put an ad on Craigslist Los Angeles(LA has the largest Japanese population in the US)-seeking someone who can do some Japanese to English translating.You might get a response from some Japanese college students who are looking to make some extra money.

But,this has to be done with the realization that it will be for information purposes,only.Keep in mind what Richard stated earlier this year-and don't get all excited if you do get the full English text and find out that there's enough finished tracks in the vault for three more albums.
 
Amazing commentary from the Mook, thanks! Which album do we surmise he was talking about in the above comment? The Mook was published in 1996, so the only new albums to come after that were 'Love Songs' in 1997 and 'Pianist, Arranger, Composer, Conductor' in 1998. 'As Time Goes By' came later in 2000, maybe he was considering tracks for that as early as 1996?

Unless of course he means Karen's solo album :laugh: :prix:
Richard was evidently referring to his instrumental "Pianist Arranger" album,which he was working on at the time of the MOOK interview. "Slaughter" is an instrumental-and would've blended in well with the album.

"Love Songs" was a compilation-not a new album.
 
Here goes:

Hi Jeff,

Here's the text you have requested. Please know that this interview was
conducted back in 1996. Some of the songs mentioned here have been made
available on "As Time Goes By" album. And you can watch the others on Youtube, I think.
I hope you will enjoy reading it.
Thanks,
Yuka


------------
YO:
I have a list of the unreleased songs.
RC:
Uh-oh. I've already... OK. Someone, I know who, got into the Carpenters file
at the A&M library, in the Carpenters file is everything. Every time we had
a guest on our shows who sang a song, say Suzanne Somers, the actress, if
she sang a song it got put into the Carpenters card file. If Kristi McNichol
came on and sang Christmas Alphabet it got put in the card file. B.L.
Mitchell got put into the Carpenters card file. This person gets a hold of
it, distributes it to the fans around the world... I get letters to this day
listing all these tunes: "How come you haven't released these?" I'll answer
you, you list them and I can tell you about each one of them.
All My Life we will probably put on... it has a whole lead, it's good. (Not
All Of My Life). It's an outtake, anymore, I say, especially if someone has
passed away, an outtake is a bonus track. Then it was an outtake. You didn't
think it was up to being on the album. But this one does have a whole lead
and, of course Karen's leads were perfect. It's unfinished, but I can finish
it and someday we'll put it out.
Love Song: I haven't a clue, unless it's 78.
Ain't Misbehaving is Ella Fitzgerald
See what I mean? That's the trouble with that. I keep getting this. This is
like a pyramid scheme, you know when every now and again you get a letter
for a pyramid scheme: if you don't continue this letter, death will
befall... Yeah. And I get this Goddamned list on the average of once a
month. "I know you have these and how come you haven't released them?" And
I'm telling you, that's why!
All The Way, no one we ever...
Mad is B.L. Mitchell. It's really nice, but it's not Karen.
All Good Things I Remember I haven't a clue. Wait, there's All Good Things
Don't Have To End. We did one for Made In America called All Good Things
Don't Have To End, but it doesn't have a whole lead. See, back then, rather
than keep at it until we had a track in one take that satisfied us, if we
got half of one take and part of another take we'd edit it. Some had work
leads and some didn't. So, you'll be listening to the master track, which
turned out to be an outtake, Karen will be singing for half of it and then
it goes to where it was edited to another take where Karen's not singing.
There's no whole lead. So, there is an All Good Things Don't Have To End,
which is quite a nice tune, doesn't have a whole lead on it.
Magic In The Music - Either I can't stand the song, I thought it would be
good but once we got in there we didn't like it. It may not have a whole
lead, if it does I'd never put it out.
And When He Smiles doesn't have a lead.
Once In A Lifetime. It sucks. And there's no lead.
Ald Lang Syne is a big Peter Knight orchestration. It was a possibility for
the Christmas Portrait album, there's no lead.
Won't You Play A Simple Melody is... it was meant for and it was cut out of
our second Christmas special, where my folks visit and originally... it
ended up with just Gene Kelly saying something and my father saying
something in his droll voice, but originally there was a... you know the
song, Irving Berlin? And then it has a counter melody, and then they
both go
together. So Karen and my Mother sang "won't you play..." and then my father
and I moaned out "musical dreams..." and then the whole thing was supposed
to go together. So it does exist, as a curiosity piece for something
like a
boxed set, it may work. I had forgotten all about it. My mother does have
quite a nice voice.
Rainbow Connection, if it has a whole lead, Karen would come down and get
me.
Come And Be Kind. John wrote that with... he may have written the whole
thing. I have the demo on it, it's really nice, it doesn't have a whole
lead.
Peter Pan Moon would be on Voice Of The Heart if it had a whole lead. We
were crazy about that, but never got it completed and it doesn't have a
whole lead.
Better World. Oh my goodness, I heard on a Saturday Night Live by Dr. John,
remember Dr. John? Did he ever make a kind of Cajun character? Just a funky
Leon Russell type of thing, and I absolutely loved it and we did a track,
and of course, it's one of the last things on Earth the Carpenters would...
so we never did anything with it.
Dizzy Fingers is an instrumental. It's all done, I could play it for you
right now. It's for Music, Music, Music. It's where I go from piano... I
don't know if you've ever seen Music, Music, Music. I start at one
piano, I
go to toy piano, I go to a harpsichord, I jump from here to there, it's
really neat. But, to watch, for some people to listen to, but it's an
instrumental, I don't think most people are going to care about it.
Don't Leave Me. No way! That was done for the tan album, it's lousy. Good
song, not meant for us.
Real Love. I couldn't even tell you.
Fallin' For Love. Pretty good, but I don't think it has a....
Runaway was done by Gallagher and Lyle, a British duo, no lead.
Fool Me. RC vocals, so it's out right there.
Savin' It Up- it's actually called For the Minute. Paul Anka. No it's not,
its... I'll think of it but it doesn't matter, no lead.
Sebastian. It was done by Paul Stookie. Worked for him, again was done right
around the time we did And When He Smiles, it just doesn't... I remember
Roger giving us more if a hard time for even thinking about doing...
Funny Faces. B.L. Mitchell.
Second Thoughts. Paul Anka. No lead and we weren't that hot about it.
How High The Moon. Ella Fitzgerald.
Slaughter On Tenth Avenue. Again, instrumental piano, orchestra from...
Hell, I ought to just pull it out and put it on the new album.
Hurting. Rings no bell at all. We used call Hurting Each Other Hurting.
Seventy Five. I don't know, it doesn't ring a bell. I heard this by some
girl, I have the record, I can't remember the name, it didn't become a hit.
I said, "This is a hit." And it turned out to be a hit by Rod Stewart, but
we cut it before Rod Stewart cut it. But, no lead.
I Believe In You is Neil Young. "Now that you've made yourself..." I
thought, when I heard that, this is another Superstar hit, it may have a
lead on it, it just didn't work. That again was cut for that tan album. So
there are reasons here. But there's another one that's not listed there.
There's one called Try and Win A Friend, that I think has a whole lead
on it
that's good that we may use. Well, it's written by... we did it in
approximately '74, written by Larry Gatlin. That has a lead on it.
Just Somebody is Randy Eledman, it doesn't work for us.
A Wedding Prayer is just me.
Last Of The Romantics has a great big track with a full-on Peter
orchestration and no lead.
Won't Be Back Tomorrow, I could play it for you right now, has everything
but a lead.
Lately is Bob Bauker. B.L. Mitchell.
Leave Yesterday Behind we will put in the future album. It's written by Fred
Carlin, he's trying to duplicate For All We Know, it's pleasant but it's not
For All We Know, but it does have a nice lead on it. So, we'll use that, Try
And Win A Friend and All My Life and probably Won't You Play A Simple
Melody, because it has my father and me singing on it and Karen and my
mother.
You're Just In Love. Well, I have it with just Karen and me singing it, just
for fun. Originally it was Karen and John Davidson for Music, Music, Music.
But for kicks.. cause I made it for Paul Grein and... some if this stuff was
only meant... not meant to be around the world.
You'll Never Know. Again, well it's John Davidson's key and it was meant for
him to sing and just for kicks I sang a lead on it. You probably know it and
have it. This stuff is not supposed to be out of... that's the trouble
with... anymore, when... that's why I'm so skiddish about letting anyone
have a photograph, you know, this stuff ends up around the world!
YO:
This list is from a lady who is compiling a book about A&M.;
RC:
I know who got a hold of this and to whom it was given and who then
circulated it. He shall remain nameless, but I know.
--(skip)--
Only because the average fan who gets their hands on this immediately thinks
that every one of these is a finished track with Karen singing the lead, and
what am I doing depriving the public of this?
YO:
My personal feeling about this is that it's not everything that you
recorded, it's outtakes of the TV specials or...
RC:
It's that. It's TV specials, appearances, it's outtakes, it's half completed
leads or it's songs we never should have recorded in the first place.
Wouldn't I like, if.... I mean obviously there's money to be made if I loved
all these pieces, I'd have them out already. The list is accurate, except
that doesn't mean anything. Hurting means nothing to me and one other one
doesn't ring a bell, but that doesn't mean anything. But All Good Things...
see, I think that got mixed up, cause it's definitely called All Good Things
Don't Have To End, and I think it ended up All Good Things I Remember. We
also did a track to The Moon's A Harsh Mistress.
YO:
And When He Smiles...
RC:
Well, several of those may see release in the future.
YO:
Does this mean you have enough material to compile a CD?
RC:
It would have to be, if we do it at all, cause I said I can think... what
are there four things with And When He Smiles, and then there are 10 bonus
tracks from the Phil Ramone project but he's not wild about all of them, nor
am I, nor was Karen. That's why they're outtakes! But there are several in
there so if you use several of those, and there's one that's quite
Carpenter-esque that I already... that I would love to do the
arrangement on
it. All it is now is a track and a work lead, but it's really
Carpenter-esque. That may be one reason that it's not on the album, cause
it's too Carpenter-esque. I want to do the chart on it, if they'll let me,
and I think it would be kind of nice to... for Karen... Karen, you know,
would love to have me do the chart on it, and it is right out of our song
book, if you will, and there are probably four things there, five maybe, no
four, another four... but then the rest would have to be interviews and...
it can't be a whole album... there's not enough to make a whole CD of music
that's worthy of release. I'm not about to put out just anything and neither
is Phil, just because... nor, I think... granted I suppose some people, if
it's Karen singing it.... Well, there's Why Don't They Understand, is that
on there? That has an actual whole lead and it's a tune that Karen and I
always loved from the time of it's release. It was originally produced and
arranged by Don Costa, sung by George Hamilton IV... but somehow, even
though Karen sings it better than George Hamilton IV, it just didn't... we
never finished it, mentally, but we looked at ourselves and said we liked
the original one more. So, it never went anywhere. Pretty song. Is that on
there?
YO:
Yes.
RC:
Well, it's a comprehensive list, they did their jobs well.

end.

2014/08/22 4:34、Jeff xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hi Yuka,
There is a fervent chatter at www.amcorner.com regarding English text insofar as the details at each BURIED TREASURE recording. Many are clamoring for the information. Knowing of Richard Carpenter's intent to withhold these tracks we are still curious about the information you gathered regarding them. If you can help us please stop by the site.

Thank you Yuka,

Jeff
  • ©
 
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Wow, thanks Jeff for stepping up to the plate and providing this info. I have just printed it and will retain this inside my Mook Book. I love reading this stuff, wonderful insight direct from the source of what is left in the vaults, it's MORE than I imagined.

now how do I triple "like" your post? or better yet how about a hug? :hugs:
 
Fascinating material to peruse, Jeff.
Thanks, also, for going above and beyond any expectations I might have harbored regarding "the list".
It does, however, raise a number of questions in my mind.
Perhaps I am naive in the methods of recording, or , at least, in the methods employed by Karen and
Richard Carpenter...but,
(1). Is it my understanding that Richard would "cut and paste" (edit) different
vocal takes from Karen, recording parts of a lead vocal during different recording sessions? (i.e., half of a song)
I had always assumed an entire "lead vocal" would be recorded "all at once". (RC:"Karen's leads were perfect")
(2).Exactly how does a "track" differ from a vocal recording, or "completing a track" ?
(3).Was Passage the only LP wherein they decided to "record" some songs in the studio "all at once"?
(4).Perhaps, and I may be off the mark, but spending too much time ( and, that with improved technology)
trying for the "perfect" sound is the reason that later albums do not sound as spontaneous and energetic as earlier albums.
(Karen' s solo album, excepted).

Many more questions come to mind, but, perhaps for another time!
Great thread, by the way: it is an eye opener.
 
So then someone at A&M, an executive? got into the A&M library and distributed this list? I wonder if this is the same person that distributed the unreleased solo tracks from Karen's solo album? Richard seems to think he knows for sure who this person was....this is the first time I am reading this.
 
If I recall, their was some concern (by A&M staffers)
after the sale of Polygram to Universal (?, or,was it A&M to Polygram ?)
that precious unreleased material would then be destroyed, or otherwise never be released.
Certainly A&M ceased to "exist" independently after being gobbled-up by UMG.
Thus, the lawsuit by Alpert and Moss (which they did win).
Why it took until 1996 for the solo album's release puzzles me, as too the comment, by
Phil Ramone to Richard, asking if the album would ever see the light of day.
(And,only after the Tribute album's moderate success, do I believe there was any thought as to its
subsequent release-I could be wrong.)
Seems to me, and again, I could be in error, that these Carpenters' releases (then and now)
are entirely controlled by the artists' recording company.
Given how events have transpired with the distribution of music over the web, downloads and such,
the relationship that,say, Karen and Richard, had with A&M Records, no longer exists (for any artist).
Again, thankfully, we do have what we have!
Would love to have Richard Carpenter's input, his 1970's "diary" of their career-- if you will, though.
 
For a moment I was there we go! Until I referred to the "list" and found SCADS of non-mentionables. Ok....hmmm. Back to the drawing board. Really need the entire translation and a little cahoots with a former exec. He could be my friend...
Jeff
 
I'm thankful for whoever leaked it. Which is not to say that others sources haven't sent me stuff we've all heard by now. :wink:
 
It's good to see the full English text-but it seems a little short.There's several tracks that Richard didn't comment on.

The big revelation here is the existence of two Peter Knight orchestral tracks-but with no lead vocal:"Auld Lang Syne" and "Last Of The Romantics". I knew these tracks existed,but didn't know Peter did the arrangement/orchestration.

Richard also reveals that he had "As Time Goes By" planned as early as 1996-and he intended to include "Try And Win A Friend","All My Life" and "Play A Simple Melody".Would be interesting to know why he changed his mind on those particular tracks.

Richard also mentioned his(and Karen's) fondness for "Why Don't They Understand"-which also has a complete lead vocal.

"Peter Pan Moon" would've been included on Voice Of The Heart,if it had a full lead vocal.

Richard evidently considered working on one of Karen's solo outtakes for release,which he describes as being very "Carpenteresque".(possibly "Something's Missing"?).Maybe he wasn't able to get permission to finish it(notice Richard's words "if they'll let me").

Notice how he admitted his disdain for several tracks in the interview.

Also,didn't mention much about the 1982 sessions-I know there's a couple of finished KC tracks from that session,in addition to two or three with RC lead vocal.
 
If I recall, their was some concern (by A&M staffers)
after the sale of Polygram to Universal (?, or,was it A&M to Polygram ?)
that precious unreleased material would then be destroyed, or otherwise never be released.
Certainly A&M ceased to "exist" independently after being gobbled-up by UMG.
Thus, the lawsuit by Alpert and Moss (which they did win).
Why it took until 1996 for the solo album's release puzzles me, as too the comment, by
Phil Ramone to Richard, asking if the album would ever see the light of day.
(And,only after the Tribute album's moderate success, do I believe there was any thought as to its
subsequent release-I could be wrong.)
Seems to me, and again, I could be in error, that these Carpenters' releases (then and now)
are entirely controlled by the artists' recording company.
Given how events have transpired with the distribution of music over the web, downloads and such,
the relationship that,say, Karen and Richard, had with A&M Records, no longer exists (for any artist).
Again, thankfully, we do have what we have!
Would love to have Richard Carpenter's input, his 1970's "diary" of their career-- if you will, though.
The tribute album had nothing to do with the release of Karen's album. I remember speaking with A&M's director of catalog development in 1996-and it was totally an issue of A&M wanting to wait for the "right time".They wanted enough time to pass after Karen's death before giving it a release to ensure that the album wouldn't affect Karen's legacy(or reputation).
 
I wonder what Peter Pan Moon sounds like or what the feel is? Just the title itself sounds pretty cool. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm getting all excited inside, if even just for myself. :love: Just the thought that there are full leads of Karen, new material...sends me over the edge.
 
The tribute album had nothing to do with the release of Karen's album. I remember speaking with A&M's director of catalog development in 1996-and it was totally an issue of A&M wanting to wait for the "right time".They wanted enough time to pass after Karen's death before giving it a release to ensure that the album wouldn't affect Karen's legacy(or reputation).

They made it sound like the album was some kind of expletive-laden Ozzy Osbourne tribute album. I mean, come on, it's tame when you listen to it now (and even back in the nineties!).

I wonder what Peter Pan Moon sounds like or what the feel is? Just the title itself sounds pretty cool.

I've looked for details of the track on youtube and online in general and there's nothing. This would suggest it's an original track that's never been recorded by another artist. What a shame there's no complete vocal. The title alone is intriguing!
 
Strangely enough, the above partial translation(s) from the Mook ,by Yuka, has been known to me for quite some time, now.
I forget where I had read all of those comments by Richard Carpenter, before.
But, none of those comments is quite 'new' to me, they have appeared elsewhere ( before now).
Still, it would be nice to have amplification, if not, clarification on certain issues.
All-in-all, I am interested in the over-all process by which Carpenters' recorded their material.
Dates, times, alternate takes, overdubs, and the technicalities that only the arranger and musicians could elaborate upon.
Exactly what constitutes an "outtake": in one of the Liner Notes, Richard defines it as "left-over" material, yet in other
instances the term is used to define sub-par material, not worthy of release.
Were all of the songs started with bass, piano and a "work-lead" by Karen Carpenter?
Is every work lead retained, even if the song is re-done/re-mixed for subsequent release?
(The "Superstar" on the tan album, wasn't that a work-lead, one-take vocal, subsequently used for release?)
What is a chart? What constitutes a "track"?
At what point does Richard, while in a recording session, decide "this song is not right for us"?
And, if the song is "not right", then why retain any of that recording?(Simply dispose of it.)
My impression, heretofore, was that Richard "visualized" the entire arrangement in his head,
even before going into the studio to record vocals with Karen.
I notice that the drumming on Passage is not as up front and heavy handed as previous albums, was that
intentional or simply due to different session drummers ? (Greene and Tutt).
What was the time frame for completing the earlier albums?
Richard Carpenter seems to imply that they never had enough time to do an album properly due to time constraints.(1969-1973)
We have:
1977 Passage, three months to completion (Liner Notes),
1978 Christmas Portrait 13 months on and off, Karen Carpenter ( Interview in Readers Digest Compilation)
1980 Karen Carpenter solo LP, roughly a year in the making.
1981 Made In America nearly a year, on and off.
In Richard's mind, MIA is their best, but many would argue for the earlier 1970's albums, which took much less time.
Those, just a few questions I have regarding the recording sessions.

And, I have so many more questions!
 
Know what? Although I personally thanked Yuka for her selflessness, I feel compelled to acknowledge, thank and applaud her for her exhaustive, relevant work on The Mook. Its resource is absolute in compiling first hand accounting.
Thank you Yuka on behalf of myself and other grateful members here and fans around the world.
Jeff
 
It is easy to see that The Mook was put together with much love and affection for retaining Carpenters legacy in the wonderful photos of Karen and Richard, rare memorabilia, albums, singles, 45's CD's special box sets, Karen's solo info and unreleased tracks and this doesn't even touch on all the articles inside about the duo written in Japanese. I was late in obtaining my copy but so glad I did because I have never come across a book that details so much information (if only I could read it).

The fans shouldn't be blamed for the release of this list of unreleased tracks yet because it was put out years ago how can the fans not be interested in it's material? This is all old news but I'm still interested if just for the information as Gary pointed out about when they were done. I had no idea that Karen and Richard recorded a song called Peter Pan Moon, Richard says it does not have a whole lead, so that means Karen recorded a partial lead but it still doesn't tell us when it was recorded 1980? I don't know how good the partial lead of Karen is but it sounds like from Richard's notes that he would have included it had there been a whole lead so that tells me the partial is good. We know how great Richard was at fixing errors and adding his own vocals to complete such gems like, "Do You Hear What I Hear?" could he have added his own 1980's vocals to complete that track after Karen passed away say between years 84 to 90 in the recording studio. It's too late now but it's fascinating to think it could have come about.

From this list, there are 3 tracks that sound like they could be released, "Try And Win A Friend" with Karen's amazing 74 vocals and "All My Life" and "Why Don't They Understand" all with full leads and he says can be finished. These would make excellent bonus tracks on future Japanese compilation/box sets....am I demanding? NO!! just discussing my thoughts.
 
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Keep in mind that a good portion of this incredibly important interview with Richard was lost while Yuka was editing the book. She explained that she had inadvertantly misplaced it at the time. That explains why the descriptions of certain songs aren't there.
 
I just pulled out my copy of the 'Mook' book, which I hadn't looked at in some time. It's absolutely amazing! What an undertaking. You can tell Yuka put her heart and soul into it.
 
I have never actually seen that fan club letter with all those tracks listen and I call myself a fan. Granted, I knew of at least half of the tracks. I'm not going to get my hopes up and be more of a realist like Harry is. However, in 100 years or so if there are any tapes left that didn't get burned, they might be released.
 
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