Carpenters: "FUN FACTS & TRIVIA"

[Chris May]

I thought it would be fun to experiment with a new thread topic entitled “CARPENTERS FUN FACTS & TRIVIA”.

It is here that we can share excerpts from interviews, documentaries, personal encounters etc. with regard to generally unknown facts about the Carpenters’ legacy through their music. Some of the information may be "old news" to many of us, however, I’m sure a lot of it will also be new to those of us who have been here a while as well as first time visitors at A&M Corner. -Chris

NOTE: The subject matter here must pertain to the music of the Carpenters. Trivia facts regarding favorite color, food, etc. is OK. However, any objectionable discussion (i.e. personal matters, finances, family issues, post-mortem etc.) will not be tolerated. If we can’t keep it clean, we will close the thread.

 

[Chris May]

I'll kick it off:

FACT #1:
Due to a hectic touring schedule in 1972, it was during the recording of “I WON’T LAST A DAY WITHOUT YOU” that Karen was terribly run-down and as a result suffered a throat infection. She was trying to double her lead vocal on the choruses, and could not match her master lead vocal track (which in hindsight Richard says she would normally get in one or two takes). An impatient Richard finally left the control room and went into Herb’s office to watch a late-night flick on T.V. while Karen and [engineer] Ray Gerhardt worked down all of the doubles.

FACT #2:
In his book entitled "Yesterday Once More, Memories of the Carpenters and Their Music", archivist and author Randy Schmidt includes an interview from 1972 noting a background vocal session for “HURTING EACH OTHER”, where it was KAREN that upon listening to the overdubs in the second verse (the “weeeee aaaaare's”) decided that the sound wasn’t "big enough”, so she and Richard went back out into the studio to add a few more vocals to thicken the harmonies.

FACT #3:
3) According to the Carpenters fan club letter #65 [published in September 1978], Karen's favorite dessert was "Peach Mabel". The recipe can be found here: http://karencarpenter.anothersong.com/invocation/cookbook/index2.html

FACT #4:
4) In an interview conducted by Rick Henry with New York session drummer Liberty Devitto regarding Karen's SOLO sessions, Devitto mentions that Karen, while overdubbing all of those "breathy" background vocals for "REMEMBER WHEN LOVIN' TOOK ALL NIGHT", at one point actually began hyperventilating and passed out!

FACT #5:
5) In a 1979 interview done at the Carpenters' office on the A&M lot with Gary Theroux, an interesting nugget of info emerged regarding the song "ONLY YESTERDAY". Richard and Karen go on to tell Gary:

RICHARD: That was my "60's record".

KAREN: That's another of my favorites. A lot of work went into that record. One of the most beautiful verses I've ever heard is "Hope was all I had until you came." I said "Oh, John [Bettis], that's gorgeous"! And then, "I have found my home here in your arms" {sings} "I have found my home here in your arms." John is really brilliant.

RICHARD: That was a hard record to record.

KAREN: Yeah, it was. We used to see how fast we could overdub things. We were into the modulation--"only yesterday, only yesterday"--all the way to the end, and I had that one part down. Richard went to the bathroom, and I finished that whole section before he got back. He comes to me and says "Well, where are you?" And I said, "We're finished."

RICHARD: "WHAT?!?!"

Pretty interesting stuff! What Carpenters "Fun Facts" do YOU have to share????

 

[thestitch]

That's very interesting, Chris, about the "Peach Mabel"!! I recall seeing the name of that recipe and always thought it was a spelling error for "Peach Melba"!! It's actually a whole different recipe! It's amazing that Karen loved to cook and had a gourmet kitchen well supplied with the latest gadgets. It somehow seems out of character for a person who was anorexic.

This promises to be an informative topic for discussion. I doubt that I personally could add anything "new", however.

With anticipation,
Marilyn

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Following a chance encounter with Lani Hall in Beverly Center in late 1982, I was directed to the office of Diana Baron of A&M Artist Relations to leave my address so Lani could send a package my way. In talking with Diana, I was invited to tour the Lot on my next visit to the area.

Early the next year, I found myself heading for Los Angeles to begin attending UCLA. On Diana's invitation, I contacted her and arranged a visit to tour A&M. It was an awe-inspiring day I will never forget.

As the tour concluded, Diana and I were standing in the parking lot chatting when a cute woman in jeans, sweater and boots happened by on the way to her car. "Hey Di!!" she chirped. "Karen, hello..." Diana replied. As Karen approached, I came to realize who she was...I was speechless. Diana introduced me, they talked for a minute or two and Karen went her way. She was gone a month later.

I never did have the pleasure of seeing The Carpenters on stage, but I'll never forget my chance encounter on the A&M Lot.

Jon

 

[Chris May]

That is amazing, Jon! I do remember reading either this post or a post perhaps by another member here where they had seen Karen at A&M around Thanksgiving, 1982. Very interesting stuff.

Here is some more info taken from (2) separate sources in the 1970's with regard to how the Carpenters put together their “sound”:

The Syracuse Herald Journal, April 14, 1974:​

“Technically, the sound the brother-sister team creates is achieved by building four-part chords and overdubbing them twice for a total of 12 voice parts. Occasionally, they expand the harmonies up to 13-part chords that cover three octaves. With triple overdubs, this produces a sound like a chorale of 39 voices. Their version of I'll Never Fall in Love Again is an example of this”.

Radio interview with Richard and Karen, where Richard talks about how the songs are recorded:​

Richard: I write some of the tunes, myself, and John Bettis writes the lyrics, so we usually don't get ALL the material that's going to go onto the album at once and then go into the studio. We start with several things, go in... and do the tracks... by tracks I mean we work it bass, piano, and drums - basic foundation to the tune. And... then we'll start with usually something like overdubbing guitar next, or electric piano on top of what we've got. And we do one thing at a time, to achieve better sound. So you don't have... if you do it all at once in a studio you can have different instruments 'leaking' into the drum microphones, whatever, it doesn't give you as clean a sound.
Interviewer: How many tracks do you usually have, total, to work with?
Richard: 24. And that, again, takes time. So instead of in one hour where you could get 35 musicians say, on one song, we start with three and add one, add one, add another, add another, and then do the vocals, and then move on to the next song, and the next. Then when we have four done, we call in a string section. Because the union allows you to do four tunes in one session. And we complete it, and put it aside, to be mixed, then start in again.

-Chris

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Fascinating, Chris!! I've always found this kind of information interesting, so you've hit a nerve with me. I recall Diana showing me the different aspects of recording and thinking that a lot of work goes into any given song. Judging from The Carpenters and what you've written, my hunch was correct!!

Keep 'em coming, Chris...again...fascinating!!

Jon

 

[Chris May]

The following excerpt is taken from a “missing chapter” in an autobiography written by Carpenters session drummer Hal Blaine, where he states the following with respect to the early days:

“They had been signed. I was really happy for them and for Joe who played bass. Unfortunately, nothing happened with their first couple of records. Then I got a call from Jack Daugherty. Great trumpet player and producer. He wanted me and Joe to come in and make some Carpenter records. We did and of course the rest was history. We've Only Just Begun, the Paul Williams/Roger Nichols Crocker Bank commercial was now climbing the charts".

"In the studio the kids were great. Karen sang her pretty buns off and Richard was wonderful on the piano. He was also one of the most prolific arrangers I had ever worked with. We were recording constantly and it was hit after hit with these kids from Downey, California. They became the golden geese that were laying all of the golden eggs for A&M. Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss, my old partners in crime, couldn't have been happier".

"After about the third hit Karen came to me and asked me to have a drum kit made exactly like mine so that she could play the same arrangments on the road. I had been using my "monster octoplus" custom drums on all their hits. I very diplomatically asked, "When the hell are you gonna stop playing the drums and start fronting this outfit??" (For some reason females always look rather awkward playing a set of drums, and don't get me wrong, she was a great drummer, just had that strange look sitting at the drums). I obviously said the wrong thing because Jack and Richard kind of jumped me, "Don't make waves." I was told very nicely, "Richard is the star of this outfit, that's the way the folks want it and that's that!!!"

-Chris

​

...be back here tomorrow with another "fun fact"...-Chris

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Interesting! I always thought Karen played the drums in the studio on the early hits. Album credits are pretty sketchy on those first couple of albums though.

 

[newvillefan]

I posted this at another site, but it fits perfectly with this thread. There's a radio interview with Richard I have about the Carpenters image, and he is very critical of the A&M guys in charge of their album artwork - to the point he swore about it! This is quite possibly the most articulated and open I have heard Richard talk (sorry I don't know the source, but it's within the last few years because Richard mentions the PBS documentary he did).

He explains how they went along with the label's ideas on artwork for the first two albums, as they were young and naive. By the time they got to this album, Richard said he hit the roof, but I'll let him pick up the story there . To assist with the dialogue, I've posted the relevant pictures to illustrate this funny story.


'We were their biggest act, and they hadn't given it any thought. They said to us, stand out at your front door and we'll shoot your picture. I kid you not! I said 'what you mean like OUR MOTHER would do?!!! Like a snapshot to go in the family album?! We're supposed to stand out here?' I said 'were NOT doing it!'. So this went on, they were saying 'no we have to have it, the album's nearly out', so after all the bitching and griping...we got in the Ferrari. And if you look at that, you can tell I am pissed off. I am not smiling on that album cover. All they did was get us driving down the street, and they just shot us with me driving the car. That was it.

THEN to make it worse, they said 'this cover is going to be more of an artistic statement, 'we're going to have the picture painted'. If you look at that album, it folds out three ways , it cost a lot of money to make it. Of course by this time, we're not in the studio, we're out on the road, so we didn't get a chance to see what they were doing with it until we are out on the road. And they sent it. And it was wrong. If you look at the cover, there's this thing with the Ferrari Daytona, where it has a vent window. And it so happens that the way they took it, it cuts Karen's face in half. Again, if management had anything to say, they should have said 'what the hell are you taking a picture of Karen for [forget painting it!], and cutting our star's face in half?' So when they went to paint it, they just couldn't get this part of her face matched with the other part. So we'd send it back, they'd send another one, we'd send that back, they'd send another, and it's not right to this day. Because although they finally got that part right, they THEN went and painted 8x10s of us from a previous photo session and they painted Karen with an overbite! She never had an overbite, but you look at this thing, and she looks like a chipmunk! It's DREADFUL!

And that's my biggest regret, that I didn't just put my foot down and say, 'if this doesn't stop, we're just not going to cut any more records for you guys.' It was absolutely disgusting, the way they treated us. We should have just stood up to them and said 'get the hell out of here'. They should have been there to look after us, not just book us.

So as I said in this PBS documentary I did, you couldn't actually blame the critics for some of what they said. It was horrible. So if you look at Horizon, I finally did put my foot down on that one. So we BOTH look pissed off on that one!!! But at least our cheeks aren't together and we're not smiling!'

Stephen

 

[Chris May]

Good stuff, man!

I never knew that about the "Now & Then" cover. That is pretty intense. I always tried to figure out why Richard appeared to have such an irritated look on both of those covers. Thanks Stephen.

 

[Murray]

This is quite possibly the most articulated and open I have heard Richard talk (sorry I don't know the source, but it's within the last few years because Richard mentions the PBS documentary he did).

The source is an interview that Richard gave to the BBC a few years ago, for a 4-part series on Radio 2, entitled "The Carpenters Story". His comments about the album covers weren't used in the programme, but fortunately, the BBC posted the interview outtakes on their website. That's where I heard them. Very enlightening stuff!

Murray

 

[Mike Blakesley]

It's ironic though that as soon as they stopped smiling on the covers, sales started to go down. I always figured that's why the smiles were back on A KIND OF HUSH and MADE IN AMERICA (a truly awful looking cover).

 

[Mark-T]

I'd attribute the lower sales of Hush and Passage due to the Carpenters being out of the mainstream musically of what was selling instead of the artwork and photographs. Maybe they just "ran their course" or were just too productive the first half of the 70s. It was a new album year after year vs the three year stretch between projects like today's superstars.

In my opinion, MIA was pretty consistent with what else was selling Adult Contemporary wise (Kenny Rogers, Olivia, Sheena Easton, Anne Murray) but the cover is awful.

MIA, in my opinion would have fared much better with a photograph vs artwork cover. The inside pic would have been much better on the front. I think people wanted to SEE K&R after them being out of the limelight for so long.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

You're right...I never thought the artwork CAUSED the drop in sales, but it's typical of "marketing department thinking" for someone at the company to have said, "Well, it's because they're not smiling! Bring back the smiles, you'll bring back the sales."

Agreed about the MIA inner photo. Much better than the cover.

 

[Chris May]

Here's an interesting fact:

One of Karen's favorite hobbies was needlepoint.

In a 1991 essay written by Paul Grein, he states that one of Richard’s most prized possessions given to him by his late sister Karen is a needlepoint that she made for him stating: “There is no K.C. without R.C.”.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

In my opinion, MIA was pretty consistent with what else was selling Adult Contemporary wise (Kenny Rogers, Olivia, Sheena Easton, Anne Murray) but the cover is awful.

Actually not consistant with Olivia, She had Physical in 81 and that material was far from the material of MIA. In fact I think this was after the time when Karen had already completed her solo work and now with the huge sucess of Physical by her best friend, deep down inside Karen may have been looking for more.

But I really love MIA as a whole.

This thread is facinating to read. I had no idea about the Now & Then album & the mishap with the car. First time reading this.

 

[Mark-T]

You're right, Chris. Olivia was still in "pop tart" mode then!

 

[Chris May]

Here are a few quotes over the years uttered by none other than Karen herself:

1) I had no idea whether I could play 'em or not, but I wanted to and I was very determined. . . but the band director said 'That's not really normal.' Of course, all you have to tell me is that something's not normal and I'll go for it!!"

2) "I remember thinking back then, 'Oh God, if we don't get a hit by the time I'm 20 I have to kill myself!' Well, we JUST made it, because it came out in late May, right after I turned 20, and within 6 weeks it was number one."

3) "We came out right in the middle of the hard-rock period . . . it was hard-rock everywhere! But we were ready to make our music, you know? And it was such a turnaround, I guess it caught people by surprise."

4) "Our first single, 'Ticket To Ride', was a kind of half-hit, half flop: in some places it was number one, in others it was ash-tray material."

5) "It's kinda nice to be remembered by your peers and your fans, because you can achieve a lot of success and be a creep too! But we try to be nice, just normal people."

...be back with more "fun facts" soon...

 

[newvillefan]

Ok, I know some people have asked me about transcribing parts of this hard-to-track down interview, so here is the first extract, which is discussion about Karen's solo album. From the audio recording it's noticeable how uncomfortable Karen is, a lot of heavy pauses and imagined shifting around in her seat! (Remember that this is 1981, after her solo album had been jettisoned).

RM - Ray Moore
KC - Karen
RC - Richard

RM: The Carpenters together have had tremendous success, the two of you. Has there ever been any temptation either for you Richard, or you Karen, to launch off onto a solo career? Does the thought appeal to either of you?
KC: Umm (pauses) it comes and goes. But it....the real comfort is...what we do together...because uhh...it just doesn't feel right. I mean it comes up...
RM: Cos there must have been offers?
KC: It's...you know...it's been offered, like you said and...sometimes it...it seems interesting but...it doesn't make any sense, you know because uh...the most comfortable is here - with Richard. Because we both..luckily are good in our own fields, we both kind of fit together.
RM: It all blends?
KC: Yeah! Cos Richard excels at what he does and...I do what I do. And it just seems to work, it's a perfect combination, so it doesn't really make any sense to go looking anywhere else.
RM: And you feel the same as that Richard?
RC: Oh yeah! Yeah, cos I've been asked about producing other artists, but the Carpenters is really a full time thing.
RM: So you'd have no deep hidden ambition to conduct the New York Symphony Orchestra or Los Angeles Symphonic?
RC: It's something I'd enjoy to do maybe once or something. Not really, you know, not like, leaving this and going to that.
KC: I wanna do a movie, a musical. And I would like Richard and John [Bettis] to write the score.
RM: Because that's not happened so far has it, a score for a musical?
KC: No but I really want him to do that.
RM: Are there any properties you've got your eye on?
KC: Not yet, it's kind of a difficult thing to find. Especially nowadays. Because we're both crazy for musicals, college musicals, stuff like that, and they dont' seem to be doing anything. I wished I could have been in a Busby Berkeley flick. You know, when you get a chance, every now and then on a Saturday afternoon, you see all these terrific old musicals. And..that makes me cry! I think 'why did I miss that?!'. You know, everybody tap dancing, and they just don't do things like that any more. And its a shame! When you look at the talent that was back then, you think 'my God!', it's amazing!
RM: But it's coming back, the world changes.
KC: I hope it does, cos I wouldn't mind helping it!

Stephen

 

[Jeff]

When a most darling Miss C emerged from her dressing room on Feb 17th, '78 she came up to my chin. Funny cuz I'm only 5'8". Petite, dressed in silk and more beautiful than an album cover could convey. I mean beautiful! Boys of my persuasion know a lovely woman when they see one in spite of ...just trust me kids. She was sooo pretty and looked the perfect picture of health and well-being. Her smile was warm and inviting. I'm exuberant to this day having met CarpenterS my boyhood/adulthood musical idols. If I had my way I would share the meeting of KC & RC with each of you once again and again and again.

DON'T let ANYONE tell you that dreams don't come true...

Jeff

 

[Mark-T]

I saw Karen face to face in '76.
She was beautiful.
If only I had been a decade older then...

 

[PJ]

The recent death of teen actress Sandra Dee at 62 has 2 Carpenters related links :

1. Grease musical / film song "Look At Me I'm Sandra Dee" was covered by Karen & Richard in concert as part of their Grease medley tribute during 1976 World Tour ....

2. Sandra Dee had moved to Thousand Oaks , Los Angeles -where Richard relocated in 2000 & still resides ....

Peter

 

[Chris May]

Another interesting fact:

In 1977, Karen was asked to be a presenter at the Grammy Awards, finalist for female vocalist of the year category (1976). The nominees were:

Rita Coolidge
Thelma Houston
Linda Ronstadt
Barbra Streisand
Donna Summer

"And the winner is...LINDA RONSTADT" -Chris

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Chris, I just saw that Grammy performance of Karen annoucing the nominees, the video clip is on Ran's Roadode site. That was cool to see as I had never seen that clip before. I kept thinking as watching Karen if she had wished it was her name among those nominees.

 

[aaflyer98]

Karen looks so good on this clip. I had never seen that before! And it's kind of fun for me to hear her announce the name of my second favorite female singer, "Donna Summer".