⭐ Official Review Carpenters Royal Philharmonic Review and Comments Thread

[motownboy]

I wouldn’t honestly. The bridge Richard asked for isn’t necessary. Bob James’ arrangement is brilliant and the vocal that adorns it is of a piece. This song is the perfect example of what happens when one arranger (the incomparable Bob James) works exclusively for the song and highlights the voice perfectly. It also shows us what happens when another wants to put his own stamp on it and does far too much. Richard just misses on this one. Richard stripped nearly all the intimacy from the tune - leaving only a bit of it in the first verse. Bob James kept it all from beginning to end. Not every tune needs an orchestration. Not every tune needs background vocals either and this tune is proof of that.

Ed

If an RPO Vol. 2 comes to fruition, I hope that Richard will include MBIYFT and explore the possibility of using the vocals from both versions. Until such an attempt is undertaken, there is really no way to know how it would turn out.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

If an RPO Vol. 2 comes to fruition, I hope that Richard will include MBIYFT and explore the possibility of using the vocals from both versions. Until such an attempt is undertaken, there is really no way to know how it would turn out.

With that tune, less is more. Richard's approach is almost never predicated on that premise. It's almost always "more is more". For my part, the version on Karen's solo album is definitive and I have no need of any other version. Just my opinion.

Ed

 

[David A]

Way late to the review party on this album, should be back more frequently now.

Overall thoughts: I love this album. As many others have pointed out, Karen's vocals are in many ways the best we've ever heard - or at least, have heard in a long while. As technology made tweaking music easier and easier (and in many cases, sound better), I'm sure Richard felt the desire to utilize it, adding things like heavy reverb to Karen's voice in many of the reissues over the decades. Karen's vocals are front and center here, with little or no reverb (has anyone heard any significant reverb anywhere? I have not). I'm going way out on the speculation limb here, but Richard has said he hadn't listened to their music seriously in a long time - I think, about 15 years. I'm guessing that when he began listening to their music for this project, he was struck once again at how pure and beautiful his sister's voice was, and made the decision to emphasize it along with the added flourishes with the RPO. Karen's voice is up in the mix and in many ways I think, the focus of this project. Again, I could be wrong, but this album feels like a gift, or acknowledgment, from Richard to his sister.

This album also proves, in my view, how essentially perfect the original songs were. I enjoy a lot of the flourishes added with the RPO but none of the songs NEED them (one exception, more about that a little further down). Richard was/is a remarkable musician and composer.

A few specific comments about several songs:

First, I enjoy each and every RPO interlude between songs. They all work for me. I even like how the "OK Chorale" was used. It reminds me of watching a musical and you see the chorus of dancers singing as lead-in to the appearance of the principles, who then take over with their voices. Creates a compelling juxtaposition between the "Chorale" and when Karen comes in with her one-of-a-kind voice.

Hurting Each Other
I've gone back and read a lot of the comments over the last 6 weeks but I simply can't read it all, unfortunately - but did read some discussion about the "hard stop" at the songs end. I am in the "don't prefer it" camp. Otherwise, the flourishes are nice.

Touch Me When We're Dancing
Really, really like the flourishes on this one. This song benefits from the richness provided by added strings. If I make another compilation and if I mix the non-RPO and RPO on the same comp, this one will supersede the original.

I Believe You
Wow...prior to this album I had always thought of I Believe You as a nice but nothing special album cut. I'm not sure exactly what Richard did here, but I LOVE this version of the song. It is now among my favorites and played a LOT.

Superstar
While mentioning once again that in my view none of the songs NEEDED the RPO flourishes (with the exception of I Believe You), adding the guitar was a nice touch and the song retains it's profound sense of melancholy.

Rainy Days and Mondays
This song did not. This is the only song I feel was "harmed" by the added flourishes. Adding strings and such often smooth a song, and the flourishes made this song too "smooth" for me, given it's melancholic reading by Karen. It takes the edge off of the deep emotion I always felt when listening to Karen sing this song.

In summary, love the album, listen to it often, and disappointed to read here that sales are not going that great. This music deserves more.

 

[Carpe diem]

^^Couldn't agree more, GaryAlan. I believe that this album was "enough" of a success as far as sales, to justify a 2nd effort from Richard. Which I have no doubt will be coming...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-r...is-sister-its-yesterday-once-more-11548195907

This just in from the Wall Street Journal.

When I clicked on this link originally a few days ago I could not see it without subscribing....today I was able to view and read it. I'm not sure if the above link had 2 large photos inside the article, which are framed photos from Richard's home. The 2nd one is a huge large photo of a Plaque of Recognition from Universal Music. I've never seen this so clear and large before. I love seeing this stuff. It's so beautiful with the smaller albums around the center photo, so lovely.

Here is the link I could see today:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-r...is-sister-its-yesterday-once-more-11548195907

Here is the photo from the article, click the photo and it gets a little bigger.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Little doubt that Richard Carpenter, as well as we 'fans' are proud of this accomplishment.
And, sales, while not as robust as I would like to see, are not really terrible, give the environment today.
Remember, I was able to listen to almost every song on this cd before I ever received the physical cd (Youtube).
Universal Music Group had posted those songs online previous to the date I actually received my Amazon USA disc.
Thus, as for physical sales, I have no idea what anyone could have expected !
In the environment of today's music scene/market, the sales look okay to me.
I fail to see how physical sales could have gone higher, without even more promotion.
I still believe insufficient attention was paid to enhancing the songs with more of the RP-orchestra.
My two cents.

The sales wouldn't be terrible if the product were aimed at the younger music audience that is most familiar with streaming/digital sales. It's not, though. It's aimed at the older one - those who grew up with physical media and still purchase it regularly. Given that, the number is pretty awful and I seriously doubt we'll get a Volume 2 of this approach.

Ed

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Karen's voice is up in the mix and in many ways I think, the focus of this project. Again, I could be wrong, but this album feels like a gift, or acknowledgment, from Richard to his sister.

Excellent post David...this is how I feel as well...like it was a gift from Richard to his sister...hearing him talk about it also conveys the same feeling. I listened to the album tonight from Overture to Please Mr. Postman and it's awesome. It's really a gift to all of us...

 

[tomswift2002]

Ok I was just on Amazon.ca, and they have the RPO disc listed as a Pre-Order with a March 15, 2019 release date for the Audio CD, and a February 8, 2019 release date for the LP. I checked the listing about a week ago, and it did not have a pre-order.

 

[GaryAlan]

Here is some perspective on today's market.
Some numbers: Ariana Grande, the song, 7 rings, has totalled 86,000 copies sold.
Now, that is the number one song by a top-sales artist, a popular artist of TODAY.
Now, if it is true that the Carpenters' RPO album has sold nearly 100,000 physical copies,
that is NOT terrible in today's market, especially for an artist with rather limited appeal
(e.g., no NEW songs, little USA promotion). As for streaming, those songs have garnered more attention
than the physical sales of the album ever could. At a bare minimum, a cursory total of 100,000 views
for the RPO songs on Youtube, plus the streams available on the variety of other venues
(which, I cannot even begin to total).
So, this is hardly a disaster !

 

[newvillefan]

The 2nd one is a huge large photo of a Plaque of Recognition from Universal Music. I've never seen this so clear and large before. I love seeing this stuff. It's so beautiful with the smaller albums around the center photo, so lovely.

The inscription reads “Philippines Most Loved And Best Selling Artist Of All Time”.

I still can’t read the article without signing up. Would someone be so kind as to copy and paste it here?

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

The inscription reads “Philippines Most Loved And Best Selling Artist Of All Time”.

I still can’t read the article without signing up. Would someone be so kind as to copy and paste it here?

I guess it was a fluke yesterday because today it won't let me view it....must be hit or miss.

 

[Rachel]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...is-sister-its-yesterday-once-more-11548195907. See if this works.

 

[Shalom Bresticker]

Not for me.

 

[newvillefan]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...is-sister-its-yesterday-once-more-11548195907. See if this works.

Bizarre, I can read the full article on my mobile phone but not on the laptop...it's a great article!

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Here is some perspective on today's market.
Some numbers: Ariana Grande, the song, 7 rings, has totalled 86,000 copies sold.
Now, that is the number one song by a top-sales artist, a popular artist of TODAY.
Now, if it is true that the Carpenters' RPO album has sold nearly 100,000 physical copies,
that is NOT terrible in today's market, especially for an artist with rather limited appeal
(e.g., no NEW songs, little USA promotion). As for streaming, those songs have garnered more attention
than the physical sales of the album ever could. At a bare minimum, a cursory total of 100,000 views
for the RPO songs on Youtube, plus the streams available on the variety of other venues
(which, I cannot even begin to total).
So, this is hardly a disaster !

Again, though, Ariana Grande's audience is nothing like Carpenters audience. Ariana's audience is well-conditioned to streaming/downloading. Carpenters audience absolutely is not. We are conditioned to buying physical product. I have little issue with streaming myself but, at 45, I'm right on the line. I still buy physical product when I can because I prefer to. Carpenters fans, by and large, are my age and significantly older.

As such, Carpenters physical product-buying audience isn't big enough. This album didn't cross the 100,000 threshold anywhere and, in most places, came in well under that.

Even if streaming were doing well, streaming doesn't make money. That's well-known already. Of course, that's because the music business is completely broken at this point and it's hard to make money on music these days but that's another discussion. Either way, my perception of the performance of this album is a bit at odds with yours.

Ed

 

[David A]

Again, though, Ariana Grande's audience is nothing like Carpenters audience. Ariana's audience is well-conditioned to streaming/downloading. Carpenters audience absolutely is not. We are conditioned to buying physical product. I have little issue with streaming myself but, at 45, I'm right on the line. I still buy physical product when I can because I prefer to. Carpenters fans, by and large, are my age and significantly older.

As such, Carpenters physical product-buying audience isn't big enough. This album didn't cross the 100,000 threshold anywhere and, in most places, came in well under that.

Even if streaming were doing well, streaming doesn't make money. That's well-known already. Of course, that's because the music business is completely broken at this point and it's hard to make money on music these days but that's another discussion. Either way, my perception of the performance of this album is a bit at odds with yours.

Ed

Wouldn't it follow, then, that Ariana's music also doesn't make much money, if streaming isn't profitable (or little so)? Her net worth is estimated at about $45 mil, but of course not all of that came from music sales. There's concerts, endorsements, etc. Still, comparing her physical sales numbers with the Carpenters RPO it does seem like it's selling ok, in that context.

 

[GaryAlan]

I do agree that --if placed against prior album sales--then, yes, these are disappointing numbers.
But, I do ask (Ed) what can we possible expect ? (By the way, I only too buy physical product).
No new songs, no significant promotion, no tie-ins, almost nothing major
(outside of UK, Japan) to really get sales to stay ramped up (especially USA).
I hardly believe that UMG was aiming for stellar sales.These days, I do not know what stellar sales would be,
especially for an act that saw its heyday in the 1970s.
This is 2019, that Karen and Richard Carpenter can capture ANY Physical sales,
especially since cd's are a dying breed, does say something positive.
I would love to see more physical sales, no way can it be possible in today's environment.
Who knows what actual sales are, though ? That is, sales both physical and streaming.
I guess, since I did not expect monumental sales figures (500,000plus),
my threshold was not set high.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I do agree that --if placed against prior album sales--then, yes, these are disappointing numbers.
But, I do ask (Ed) what can we possible expect ? (By the way, I only too buy physical product).
No new songs, no significant promotion, no tie-ins, almost nothing major
(outside of UK, Japan) to really get sales to stay ramped up (especially USA).
I hardly believe that UMG was aiming for stellar sales.These days, I do not know what stellar sales would be,
especially for an act that saw its heyday in the 1970s.
This is 2019, that Karen and Richard Carpenter can capture ANY Physical sales,
especially since cd's are a dying breed, does say something positive.
I would love to see more physical sales, no way can it be possible in today's environment.
Who knows what actual sales are, though ? That is, sales both physical and streaming.
I guess, since I did not expect monumental sales figures (500,000plus),
my threshold was not set high.

What’s really interesting is that in Japan, where they’ve always done better and where physical sales always do better, the numbers are actually worse than those in the United States. I’m not sure what to make of that.

Ed

 

[GaryAlan]

Looking at the Hot 100 albums in Japan, you can see that there is but little chance
for a Carpenters album to make it......
Here:
Billboard Japan Hot Albums | Charts | Billboard JAPAN

 

[Proudofyou]

I think the problem is YouTube. Everything is on there. Rainy days has like 24 million hits or something. Why buy the album when you can stream for free? I of course bought the album in the first 5 minutes. I've said before that I've funded his kids' college with all my purchases over the years. People just don't buy music anymore. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Must Hear This Album]

An idea for the 50th: A complete, song-by-song cover of “Offering,” with guest vocalists. Here are my suggestions (since we’re just making stuff up...):

Invocation / Benediction: Colin and Mindy Carpenter
Your Wonderful Parade: Bruno Mars
Someday: Pink
Get Together: Miley Cyrus
All Of My Life: Ariana Grande
Turn Away: The Chainsmokers
Ticket To Ride: Paul McCartney
Don’t Be Afraid: Elton John
What’s The Use: Ed Sheeran
All I Can Do: Taylor Swift
Eve: Coldplay
Nowadays Clancy Can’t Even Sing: Beyonce

 

[Must Hear This Album]

An idea for the 50th: A complete, song-by-song cover of “Offering,” with guest vocalists. Here are my suggestions (since we’re just making stuff up...):

Invocation / Benediction: Colin and Mindy Carpenter
Your Wonderful Parade: Bruno Mars
Someday: Pink
Get Together: Miley Cyrus
All Of My Life: Ariana Grande
Turn Away: The Chainsmokers
Ticket To Ride: Paul McCartney
Don’t Be Afraid: Elton John
What’s The Use: Ed Sheeran
All I Can Do: Taylor Swift
Eve: Coldplay
Nowadays Clancy Can’t Even Sing: Beyonce

My apologies! I thought I posted this in the thread regarding the 50th Anniversary.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I think the problem is YouTube. Everything is on there. Rainy days has like 24 million hits or something. Why buy the album when you can stream for free? I of course bought the album in the first 5 minutes. I've said before that I've funded his kids' college with all my purchases over the years. People just don't buy music anymore. Maybe I'm wrong.

It definitely has an effect...but not on Carpenters fans. Again, we want physical media. We aren't into the intangible listening experience...at least most of us aren't.

Ed

 

[Rumbahbah]

Sales of albums are never going to match those of 20 years ago and the UK sales figures seem OK, albeit not brilliant, to me. They're roughly in line with those for 2016's The Nation's Favourite... compilation, and there have been so many compilations released here over the 20 years that sales for new compliations are never going to be massive like they were for 2000's Gold or 1990's Only Yesterday.

The Japanese and US sales figures do seem low though, and I can't imagine they'll have been sufficient for the record company to put out a volume 2. Whilst Gary Alan's right to the extent that sales are somewhat 'depressed' in the current market, the fact remains that there are numerous albums out at the moment that are still selling more copies than this collection has done. There seemed to be a fair bit of media coverage in both the UK and the US on the compilation, which should have stoked some interest, although I don't know how effective that is these days in terms of translating into actual sales.

I've been a bit out of the loop on this compilation due to a run of family emergencies in November/December, so didn't even hear it in full until a couple of weeks ago. It's OK - I was expecting rather more RPO input as a number of the tracks don't sound all that different from the originals, but rather as small 'tweaks'. Maybe that wasn't enough difference to mark this collection out from the numerous other compilations containing the original songs - it's almost like another set of 'remixes' like the ones Richard has done to the hits over the years for new compliations. Some of them don't work all that well either - 'Rainy Days and Mondays' in particular sounds much less effective in this incarnation and I don't like the change in lead vocal used in 'I Believe You' - the original lead was much better.

As some people have commented, I think they might have been better served by being bolder with the song selection. The two best reimaginings on the album are 'Baby It's You' and 'I Just Fall in Love Again', neither of which is particularly well known to the public, and picking more like that would have served the double purpose of pleasing the fans whilst shaking up the tracklisting from being like all the other greatest hits and introducing to the general public some more lesser-known treats in their back catalogue.

 

[GaryAlan]

^^Great points brought up.
If I were not such an avid fan, I am not sure I would have known about this album's existence.
Let's face it, Carpenters' get virtually no radio play (USA) and physical cd's are really on their way out.
(As Richard Carpenter even pointed out in one of the recent interviews).
UMG had to have known--or, projected--physical sales volume.
Japan is a mystery. But, even Japan is worlds away from where it was when the album "22-Hits" made an impact.
The type of music now-selling in Japan is not conducive to Carpenters' music.
Even if Richard had gone in the direction I would have preferred
(more RPO, more arrangement alterations, fewer hits),
I doubt the physical sales outcome would have been wildly better.