• Two exciting new Carpenters releases are in the pipeline! The new book Carpenters: The Musical Legacy will be available on November 16, 2021 and can be ordered here. A big thanks to the authors and Richard Carpenter for their tremendous effort in compiling this book! Also, the new solo piano album Richard Carpenter's Piano Songbook is being released January 14, 2022, and is available for ordering here.

šŸ“£ News Carpenters: The Musical Legacy (Discussion)

Portlander

Well-Known Member
You are correct Gary, but I was thinking that the tour was planned and set up during Sherwin's watch. I removed his name from my post in fairness just in case. Also, after a little more research it appears the proceeds from this concert went to a children's charity so I take back everything I said. :) I still stand by my observation that the Carpenters were booked at some dreadful venues with limited capacities which caused them to perform two shows on some nights.
 
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Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Philadelphia's Academy Of Music is far from "dreadful", but they were forced to add late-night shows when they performed there. They were so popular that the first show sold out very quickly, leaving a lot of disappointed fans. I know, I was one of them. And they gave their all in that second show, that's for sure.
 

JohnFB

I was born to belong to the lines of a song...
Philadelphia's Academy Of Music is far from "dreadful", but they were forced to add late-night shows when they performed there. They were so popular that the first show sold out very quickly, leaving a lot of disappointed fans. I know, I was one of them. And they gave their all in that second show, that's for sure.
The Academy is very elegant - I've been there - unfortunately it wasn't to see the Carpenters - but I could have been because I was within range - what the hell else was I doing that was so damn important? Can't imagine...
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
By the way, here is more regarding the October 1976 concert in Longview, Texas:
QUESTION: On Oct. 20, 1976, I went to see the Carpenters at Longview high school auditorium.
This was a very big deal, and I was curious to know how it came to be that they picked Longview and who arranged this concert to happen.
Did the Carpenters stay overnight in Longview? Who from Longview got to work with them to make this concert happen ?
ANSWER: I didnā€™t find a whole lot of information about the concert, but I did find one article in the Longview newspaper from Oct. 3, 1976, in advance of their performance. The article said a man named Jim Tucker was the local producer, with proceeds benefiting the Childrenā€™s Association of Gregg County.
Southwest Concerts of Houston and Art Squires was named as the executive producer.
Source:
 

Matthew Smith

Well-Known Member
Question regarding the details on the recording of ā€œSingā€ā€¦.
The book quotes Richard as saying that the childrenā€™s choir wasnā€™t working out and they knew they couldnā€™t use them so Karen sang like a kid in her higher voice instead. Iā€™m confused by this because my ears hear a childrenā€™s choir in the song, not an adult pretending to be children. Can someone clarify this explanation? Thanks!
 

Geographer

Well-Known Member
Question regarding the details on the recording of ā€œSingā€ā€¦.
The book quotes Richard as saying that the childrenā€™s choir wasnā€™t working out and they knew they couldnā€™t use them so Karen sang like a kid in her higher voice instead. Iā€™m confused by this because my ears hear a childrenā€™s choir in the song, not an adult pretending to be children. Can someone clarify this explanation? Thanks!
I wondered the exact same thing.
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
Chris May wrote: "...this was the problem with everything from Hush on through Portrait."
("this was the problem" refers to Ray Gerhardt's hearing loss).

Now, the song I Believe You was engineered by Ray Gerhardt,
yet, Christmas Portrait has three credited engineers: "... by Ray Gerhardt, Roger Young and Dave Iveland."


Any thoughts ?
 

Chris May

Resident ā€˜Carpenterologistā€™
Staff member
Moderator
Thread Starter
I wondered the exact same thing.
Karen is very much heard, double-tracked, over the top in a very straight, kid-like kind of voice. I'll see if I can find an alternate mix or stem grouping from the SACD that will more clearly demonstrate this!
 

Chris May

Resident ā€˜Carpenterologistā€™
Staff member
Moderator
Thread Starter
Chris May wrote: "...this was the problem with everything from Hush on through Portrait."
("this was the problem" refers to Ray Gerhardt's hearing loss).

Now, the song I Believe You was engineered by Ray Gerhardt,
yet, Christmas Portrait has three credited engineers: "... by Ray Gerhardt, Roger Young and Dave Iveland."


Any thoughts ?
On a lot of these, Ray recorded the tracks, and Roger and Dave did the mix.
 
hi guys

i ve just loved the musical legacy book....Chris and Mike really did a marvelous work indeed. I Wonder if there are puctures of the recording session of don t cry for me argentina......

see ya
luis
 

Matthew Smith

Well-Known Member
Karen is very much heard, double-tracked, over the top in a very straight, kid-like kind of voice. I'll see if I can find an alternate mix or stem grouping from the SACD that will more clearly demonstrate this!
Over the top, not totally replacing the childrenā€™s choir. Is that what you are saying? She did the overdubbing over the choir?
 

Chris May

Resident ā€˜Carpenterologistā€™
Staff member
Moderator
Thread Starter
I've created a sample that will help identify a little better. The most obvious is every time they get to the end of the "...la la la la-la-la laaaaa"s. She double tracked her voice singing perfect unison, in a "kiddie" type voice throughout the entire choir track.

Listen to Karen drop into the note the way she so famously does:

 

Matthew Smith

Well-Known Member
I've created a sample that will help identify a little better. The most obvious is every time they get to the end of the "...la la la la-la-la laaaaa"s. She double tracked her voice singing perfect unison, in a "kiddie" type voice throughout the entire choir track.

Listen to Karen drop into the note the way she so famously does:

Ok, now I hear it clearly and understand it clearly. Not some hidden talent that she can sound like an entire childrenā€™s choir, but that she overdubbed them to fill in. Iā€™m guessing then that in the book Richard is saying the kids couldnā€™t handle the doubling of themselves (forgive my ignorance on the terminology) so Karen handled that. Thanks!!
 

Chris May

Resident ā€˜Carpenterologistā€™
Staff member
Moderator
Thread Starter
Ok, now I hear it clearly and understand it clearly. Not some hidden talent that she can sound like an entire childrenā€™s choir, but that she overdubbed them to fill in. Iā€™m guessing then that in the book Richard is saying the kids couldnā€™t handle the doubling of themselves (forgive my ignorance on the terminology) so Karen handled that. Thanks!!
They were just terribly out of tune. It works to a pointā€”especially with children, but there wasnā€™t enough carrying of the melody when singing by themselves. šŸ˜€
 

Mark-T

Well-Known Member
I've created a sample that will help identify a little better. The most obvious is every time they get to the end of the "...la la la la-la-la laaaaa"s. She double tracked her voice singing perfect unison, in a "kiddie" type voice throughout the entire choir track.

Listen to Karen drop into the note the way she so famously does:

How do you get these clips, @Chris May? Do you ask RC for them?
 

A&M Retro

Well-Known Member
I've created a sample that will help identify a little better. The most obvious is every time they get to the end of the "...la la la la-la-la laaaaa"s. She double tracked her voice singing perfect unison, in a "kiddie" type voice throughout the entire choir track.

Listen to Karen drop into the note the way she so famously does:

Chris: You are indeed a gift to all of us. Thank you for this little clip! Karen is most definitely audible here and, of course, sounds amazing.

One thing I've really noticed in recent years is how Karen's voice just blows away the listener on the entire 'Now And Then' album. Her range, tonal quality and sterling vocal attributes are all over this album. Plus her fantastic drumming! There's jazz, rock, bossa nova, country and straight pop throughout the album and she nails it all. She was something else.
 

JohnFB

I was born to belong to the lines of a song...
...Plus her fantastic drumming! There's jazz, rock, bossa nova, country and straight pop throughout the album and she nails it all. She was something else.
I agree fully - she had some sterling chops - definitely much more than good enough for anything they ever recorded, and highly impressive to 99.99% of their fans...but apparently several people very close to her personally and professionally with unreasonable and stratospheric standards didn't think so...too bad she didn't insist on doing all the drumming or tell them where they could insert her drumsticks...
 

Vinylalbumcovers

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
I agree fully - she had some sterling chops - definitely much more than good enough for anything they ever recorded, and highly impressive to 99.99% of their fans...but apparently several people very close to her personally and professionally with unreasonable and stratospheric standards didn't think so...too bad she didn't insist on doing all the drumming or tell them where they could insert her drumsticks...

They wanted more power than she had. Certainly, as time passed and her disease progressed, she wouldn't have had that. Live playing and studio playing are very different. There are great live players that aren't great in the studio and vice versa. That was likely the issue here.

Ed
 

Someday

Well-Known Member
hi guys

i ve just loved the musical legacy book....Chris and Mike really did a marvelous work indeed. I Wonder if there are puctures of the recording session of don t cry for me argentina......

see ya
luis
Me too. Chris & Mike, we know that Richard often seems to prefer talking about the early days but ... wondering if he had much to say about the later years and, in particular, the Argentina and Calling Occupants sessions?
 
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