Carpenters, Touch Me When We're Dancing, 1981 Live, Dutch TV

[newvillefan]

I have to agree with Harry and Chris...just listening to the audio alone without the video you can hear Karen struggling to take her breaths something she never had a problem with before, there were a couple spots that I heard her literally taking breaths like she couldn't get enough air in.

For us fans....we treasure what we can get and even in this dire performance it's nice to see and hear. I'm still grateful for whoever found this and shared it with the fans.

I have to say I've listened over and over to this and I don't hear any times where she's struggling with her breathing...yes she's a bit more 'breathy' than normal but I think that's down (in part) to the sensitivity of the microphone she's using. It's very close to her mouth (as was her usual style) so it's very unforgiving. I also don't think the backing track is balanced properly with her live mic - they have the track a little too low or her mic too high, take your pick.

I also think it's far from what I'd call a "dire performance". Not her best, but then she was always perfect so I think we're viewing this from the standpoint of sheer perfection .

 

[A&M Retro]

What an amazing find! No, it's not perfect, but very few 'live' performances by ANY artist are perfect. It's such a treat to FINALLY hear a 'live' version of 'Touch Me When We're Dancing' nearly 35 years after it was a hit! It was well worth the wait. Personally, I think Karen sounds great....especially in the second half of the song. And she's way 'up there' in her upper register.

Thanks, Newville Fan, for the MIA timeline, as well. Puts things nicely into perspective.

 

[newvillefan]

Thanks, Newville Fan, for the MIA timeline, as well. Puts things nicely into perspective.

You're very welcome

One other thing I am wondering...why did they do this live? It wasn't usual for artists to perform live vocal to backing track on this show, so I wonder why they agreed to it, especially given Richard's concerns (as we know them now) about Karen's fragile state? Many other artists including ABBA appeared on her show and performed to playback so it's strange they agreed to this.

Richard will also have had to prepare a backing track version of the song with the lead vocal removed before leaving LA or must have done it at a local recording studio, as he did when he mixed the "Close To You/Begun/Back In My Life Again" medley together for the Generation 80s show in Brazil on November 3rd during the same promo trip.

 

[Chris May]

You're very welcome

One other thing I am wondering...why did they do this live? It wasn't usual for artists to perform live vocal to backing track on this show, so I wonder why they agreed to it, especially given Richard's concerns (as we know them now) about Karen's fragile state? Many other artists including ABBA appeared on her show and performed to playback so it's strange they agreed to this.

Richard will also have had to prepare a backing track version of the song with the lead vocal removed before leaving LA or must have done it at a local recording studio, as he did when he mixed the "Close To You/Begun/Back In My Life Again" medley together for the Generation 80s show in Brazil on November 3rd during the same promo trip.

They would have used what is known in the industry as a "media mix", which is created as a safety precaution during mix down.

 

[WYBIMLA]

Good I'm not the only one who played it over and over. Lol
It's like I got a remix or something. I never thought I'd hear this happen with "Touch me" of all songs.
I've heard it the same way for years, so this interesting.
Karen still manages to wow me.
It's bitter sweet though.

Almost gives a sense of "goodbye" as they do their signature "aaahs" one last time for us. Even in "Now" it's still not quite the same; however beautiful.
That moment when she's walking away doing that part I thought about how that's the last time they really got to sing together like that.

It does seem like KC builds up as the tune goes along. Maybe some of the vocal stylings is of her choice... but that remains a bit of a mystery (if we're speculating about possible damages from health complications). Her delivery doesn't move to far from what the recording is doing though. Perhaps more vibrato.
I don't hear breathy either. I think that was prominent in the French broadcast of "TOTW" for whatever reason.

If we get past her obvious fragility. It's classic KC. The way she holds the mic, facial expressions, effortlessness, great pitch, and of course a genuine sweet, sweet smile. It looked to me like she had a little fun bopping around during the last chorus there. Getting into it you know.

I don't know why Richard's tone sounds a bit funny, but at the same time I find it's expressive too. Just like they've always done it.
Also, I think I hear more piano in the last chorus. I like what it's doing, and don't hear it quite how it is in the album version. Is that just me? Lol

I'm surprised to have seen this today and that it hasn't surfaced until now or that we never saw this footage in a documentary or anything.
I think we have something special here. I loved this. Made my day for sure to hear Carpenters singing one more time.

 

[newvillefan]

Also, I think I hear more piano in the last chorus. I like what it's doing, and don't hear it quite how it is in the album version. Is that just me? Lol

His piano is live too, although buried in the mix so we don't really hear it clearly until the track starts to fade.

 

[CarpentersToYou]

Is it me, or am I the only one that thinks this song wouldn't be easy to perform live?

 

[newvillefan]

Is it me, or am I the only one that thinks this song wouldn't be easy to perform live?

Bingo! I was thinking exactly the same thing.

 

[WYBIMLA]

His piano is live too, although buried in the mix so we don't really hear it clearly until the track starts to fade.

It's cool. I like it. Gives it a slightly different touch.

Gee, to think I thought the Japan telethon mishap was the only time I'd hear "Touch me" live. out of that little bit that they did.
Totally unexpected.

Is it me, or am I the only one that thinks this song wouldn't be easy to perform live?

Credit is due. I can't imagine it would be easy to deliver or pull off well and in the way that they've done it here. Of course they make it sound simple and imo nail it.

 

[newvillefan]

It's cool. I like it. Gives it a slightly different touch.

Gee, to think I thought the Japan telethon mishap was the only time I'd hear "Touch me" live. out of that little bit that they did.
Totally unexpected.

I think that's what has shocked and surprised most people here - we got to hear a live version of the song that we never even knew existed after all this time. A rare, unexpected treat indeed!

 

[CarpentersToYou]

I can't stop watching this. Karen's hair in the "Made In America" era was in desperate need of a stylist...but now a sign of the times. Any time we get to hear a new "live" vocal from the Carpenters it's a treat. This definitely has given me the chance to revisit "Made in America".

 

[newvillefan]

Incidentally, unless I'm mistaken that video of Karen singing Top Of The World live in 1981 has disappeared from YouTube.

 

[Murray]

Incidentally, unless I'm mistaken that video of Karen singing Top Of The World live in 1981 has disappeared from YouTube.

If this is the video you're referring to Stephen, then it's definitely still on YouTube!

 

[Harry]

I'm going to augment my earlier appraisal - there are still moments when she's a little off the note, but overall it's not as bad as seemed at first.

A little technical note about the audio: this was claimed to be sourced from a "Video 2000 tape", which is a Philips (and Grundig) system, different from VHS and Beta, and designed to be a competitor to those formats. It was only marketed in Europe and South American countries, so we in the US are unfamiliar with it.

Nonetheless, the tape we hear exhibits a number of flaws that are consistent with other formats, most notably the sudden explosion of "stereo-like" moments. VHS-HiFi used to do that too, if the head alignment or tracking was just a hair off. Frankly, given that the Video 2000 system died a quick death by the mid-80s, it's impressive that there are still working machines.

Another flaw in video recording technology is the "flutter" factor. These videotapes ran really slowly through these machines, resulting in certain mechanical instabilities that can produce a false vibrato-type effect. So when you think you hear more vibrato in Karen's vocal, some of that is being added by the flaw in the video recording.

I took the audio and cleaned it up a bit. First I used only the left channel and mono'ed that out. Then I fixed a few clicky glitches and did a drastic EQ adjustment, reducing the bass by 6 DB and boosting the highs by 6 DB. While this still isn't anything approaching "hifi", it does sound better than the videotape on YouTube.

Harry

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I'm going to augment my earlier appraisal - there are still moments when she's a little off the note, but overall it's not as bad as seemed at first.

A little technical note about the audio: this was claimed to be sourced from a "Video 2000 tape", which is a Philips (and Grundig) system, different from VHS and Beta, and designed to be a competitor to those formats. It was only marketed in Europe and South American countries, so we in the US are unfamiliar with it.

Nonetheless, the tape we hear exhibits a number of flaws that are consistent with other formats, most notably the sudden explosion of "stereo-like" moments. VHS-HiFi used to do that too, if the head alignment or tracking was just a hair off. Frankly, given that the Video 2000 system died a quick death by the mid-80s, it's impressive that there are still working machines.

Another flaw in video recording technology is the "flutter" factor. These videotapes ran really slowly through these machines, resulting in certain mechanical instabilities that can produce a false vibrato-type effect. So when you think you hear more vibrato in Karen's vocal, some of that is being added by the flaw in the video recording.

I took the audio and cleaned it up a bit. First I used only the left channel and mono'ed that out. Then I fixed a few clicky glitches and did a drastic EQ adjustment, reducing the bass by 6 DB and boosting the highs by 6 DB. While this still isn't anything approaching "hifi", it does sound better than the videotape on YouTube.

Harry

I need to re-listen again to this a few more times, now that you bring all this up, I did hear all these issues with the tape, especially the flutter and loud effect of stereo breaking through for a moment, I could tell it was an old tape, reminded me how old VHS tapes would jump and flutter. I wonder now if all these tape glitches could be altering the performance when in fact if one was in the studio you might have heard a somewhat different sound than what were hearing from this tape copy.

Harry, I want to hear what you did.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

So was the Top of the World (live from 81) before or after the live version of Touch Me When Were Dancing?

Her vocals on TOTW live above are so light and delicate and again she seems like she's just not getting enough air in take. I'm just hearing some struggling in her performance that is so unlike Karen. I get the same from this new Touch Me live track too. I don't know am I the only one that's hearing it? Maybe it's Karen singing higher, she sings higher on MIA album so I guess hearing her sing it live could be throwing me off since the A&M studio is more controlled while a live take wouldn't be so much.

 

[GaryAlan]

I shared the video on my Facebook page, so far the response is positive--
and, my two year-old grandniece loves Karen's vocals--so writes my sister.
A rare find is a rare find, and I am thrilled to hear it.
Thanks, again, Stephen for bringing it to my attention: it has so far made my year.

 

[Harry]

Harry, I want to hear what you did.

Try this link: http://1drv.ms/1l1IhXf

 

[goodjeans]

I just searched YouTube on the off chance and found this...published just yesterday. And get this...it's a live lead vocal from Karen. It wasn't until the middle of the first verse that I realised...it's note perfect. Richard's mic is also live (listen to the instrumental sax section, you can hear him singing). All in all...WOW!



You can also "like" the Facebook page that hosted it..."Craptastic 80s"

https://www.facebook.com/craptastic80s

...wonderful and magical. Thank you so much for sharing.

 

[newvillefan]

So was the Top of the World (live from 81) before or after the live version of Touch Me When Were Dancing?

Her vocals on TOTW live above are so light and delicate and again she seems like she's just not getting enough air in take. I'm just hearing some struggling in her performance that is so unlike Karen. I get the same from this new Touch Me live track too. I don't know am I the only one that's hearing it? Maybe it's Karen singing higher, she sings higher on MIA album so I guess hearing her sing it live could be throwing me off since the A&M studio is more controlled while a live take wouldn't be so much.

By my reckoning the TOTW performance was the day before - both appearances were filmed during the same four day period in Europe (France first, then Holland).

 

[ringves]

I have to agree with Harry and Chris. Karen sounds tired to my ears. Long distance travel can be tiring at the best of times. Add to that the health problems which she was experiencing and I think it's understandable that this might not be among Karen's best live performances.

The schedule which they undertook in the latter half of 1981 to promote MIA reminds me that the C's had an incredible work ethic. With her fragile state at this time, it amazes me that she still had the will power to go on the road.

Final comment: I actually like the work lead vocals that were recorded in April of 1982 when reportedly her health had still not improved. "You're Enough" and "Now" are among my favourites of their early 1980's recordings. I even prefer them to the studio version of TMWWD.

 

[ullalume]

Yes it looks like it was her very last live vocal performance for TV. Here is the timeline for late 1981:

United States
22nd August - Japanese Telethon, live from Los Angeles
1st September - filming Merv Griffin Show, Los Angeles
9th October - Good Morning America Interview, New York

Mid October - Europe
17th October - Palmares Show, Paris France (Touch Me When We're Dancing)
18th October - Sightseeing only
19th October - Numero Un, Paris, France (Sing, Top Of The World)
20th October - Top Pop and Mies Shows, Amsterdam, Holland

Late October - UK (London)
22nd October - Nationwide Interview with Sue Lawley
24th October - Multi-coloured Swap Shop interview (without Richard), album signing at Harrods Store
25th October - Dinner with Peter & Babs Knight
(Dates Unknown):
- BBC Radio 2 Interview with John Dunn
- BBC Radio London Interview with Tony Blackburn
- Capital Radio Interview with Michael Aspel

Germany
27th-29th Oct - filming Show Express, Germany (Top Of The World, Beechwood 4-5789), sightseeing then return to Paris for connecting flight to Brazil.

Brazil
November 1st - Arrive Brazil
November 2nd - Press interviews
November 3rd - Radio interviews, Generation 80s Show (Close To You, Begun, Back In My Life Again medley), Golden Globe (Touch Me When We're Dancing)
November 4th - Radio interviews, Sao Paulo
November 5th - filming Fantastico Show @ Sugarloaf Mountain, Brazil (Touch Me When We're Dancing), Sendas Shopping Mall Concert (Close To You, Back In My Life Again)
November 6th - Press interviews
November 7th - Radio interview/appearance, leave Brazil

I'm not aware of the machinations of album promotion, now or 35 years ago, but it always seemed strange to me that this tour happened so late. I mean the album came out in June, but the promo tour didn't kick off until 3/4 months later. Just looking at the UK chart listing for MIA, it peaked at No. 12 on July 5th, yet here they are 4 months later doing interviews for it. Had they visited in late June maybe the album would've gone top 10. . .or top 5 for that matter.

I've also been re-listening to the video. . .8 times now. . .and my earlier description of Karen sounding "glorious" may have been clouded a tad by unbelievable excitement. "Glorious" would be the word I'd use to describe the live performance 3 years earlier at the Long Beach Xmas event. This performance is not up to that standard.

I think it's easy to put down the less than stellar nature of this rendition to her health, but if you listen to her performance at the White House 8 years earlier, her voice falters quite a few times, and Karen in late '73 was about as healthy as she got.

That said I'd be a blind fool not to acknowledge the fact that whatever hell she put her body through in '81 didn't affect her voice. Utter exhaustion, lack of nourishment, thyroid medication, purging, depression, and nervousness meant she simply didn't have the strength behind her instrument that she had even a couple of years earlier.

I think with this live performance she's having to project more and in her weakened state some of her control and nuance is lost. 6 months later she was able to sing quietly into the studio mic for Now and You're Enough and the magic is back. . .and those 2 were just work leads, remember. . .with very little reverb and to my ears quite low in the mix. Had the duo returned to the touring circuit as they planned in Summer of '83 I'm sure the old live Karen would've been back.

You know what, maybe I was wrong. Maybe "Glorious" is the word to describe this performance. . .just not as Glorious as some earlier live appearances.

Thanks again, Stephen, for bringing this to our attention. . .and for the LP transfer you did.

Great Stuff.

 

[Rumbahbah]

I'm not aware of the machinations of album promotion, now or 35 years ago, but it always seemed strange to me that this tour happened so late. I mean the album came out in June, but the promo tour didn't kick off until 3/4 months later. Just looking at the UK chart listing for MIA, it peaked at No. 12 on July 5th, yet here they are 4 months later doing interviews for it. Had they visited in late June maybe the album would've gone top 10. . .or top 5 for that matter.

You have to remember though that presumably they were concentrating on promoting the album in the US first of all, so any overseas trip would have to follow this, resulting in a time lag between the album's release and the promo tour. They toured Europe in late 1976 too when the A Kind of Hush album had already been out for a few months.

I can't remember the order of singles released off the top of my head, but either 'Those Good Old Dreams' or 'Beechwood' would have been out as a single around the time they were in the UK, so there was still the potential to reignite sales for Made in America at this stage - even if the tour doesn't seem to have done much good on that front.

Back to the video though, it's amazing to see what footage there is that still emerges out of the ether every so often. Neither Richard nor Karen's vocals sound completely on point, but the sheer rarity of a live vocal for 'Touch Me When We're Dancing' makes it a fascinating watch, although it's so sad seeing Karen in such awful physical shape. In a sense I can understand why it might not have been a perfect performance, as looking at the tour itinerary, a whistlestop tour of Europe must have been exhausting given her condition at the time. Given that A&M and the doctors wouldn't let Karen travel to Europe for the tour in 1975, it seems odd that she was allowed to undertake all this work and travel in 1981 when she looked to be at an even lower point.

 

[ullalume]

You have to remember though that presumably they were concentrating on promoting the album in the US first of all, so any overseas trip would have to follow this, resulting in a time lag between the album's release and the promo tour. They toured Europe in late 1976 too when the A Kind of Hush album had already been out for a few months.

I can't remember the order of singles released off the top of my head, but either 'Those Good Old Dreams' or 'Beechwood' would have been out as a single around the time they were in the UK, so there was still the potential to reignite sales for Made in America at this stage - even if the tour doesn't seem to have done much good on that front.

Back to the video though, it's amazing to see what footage there is that still emerges out of the ether every so often. Neither Richard nor Karen's vocals sound completely on point, but the sheer rarity of a live vocal for 'Touch Me When We're Dancing' makes it a fascinating watch, although it's so sad seeing Karen in such awful physical shape. In a sense I can understand why it might not have been a perfect performance, as looking at the tour itinerary, a whistlestop tour of Europe must have been exhausting given her condition at the time. Given that A&M and the doctors wouldn't let Karen travel to Europe for the tour in 1975, it seems odd that she was allowed to undertake all this work and travel in 1981 when she looked to be at an even lower point.

True, but was there really any domestic promotional appearances save for Merv Griffin and Good Morning America? And these were still 3 months after the fact. I don't think Karen and Richard were "upto" much June/July '81. Plus the fact that they were radio poison by this point, it really is amazing that Touch Me got into the top 100, let alone the top 20.

 

[newvillefan]

That said I'd be a blind fool not to acknowledge the fact that whatever hell she put her body through in '81 didn't affect her voice. Utter exhaustion, lack of nourishment, thyroid medication, purging, depression, and nervousness meant she simply didn't have the strength behind her instrument that she had even a couple of years earlier.

This brings to mind Richard's comment in one of the documentaries when discussing her poor state of health in late 1981/early 1982..."of course, nothing ever affected her voice!". I think on the basis of this video, I'd beg to differ.