Carpenters, Touch Me When We're Dancing, 1981 Live, Dutch TV

[GaryAlan]

So true, Stephen.
Sadly, it is all too evident that her Voice was affected (by her illness).
Many times--both print and documentary interviews--Richard has claimed otherwise.
Especially (IMHO) with the Top Of The World Performance--as it differs most dramatically from
that which is on the previous studio recordings. ( Big difference from 1973 to 1981).
Whereas, this Touch Me performance is actually much closer to the studio recording.
(When was the studio recording done for Touch Me When We're Dancing?).
(By the way, the flight from NYC to Paris took about 3 and 1/2 hours, according to the Fan Club.).

 

[newvillefan]

(By the way, the flight from NYC to Paris took about 3 and 1/2 hours, according to the Fan Club.).

They must have travelled by Concorde then, as NYC is at least 5 hours flight to the UK and Paris is a little further beyond that.

 

[ullalume]

So true, Stephen.
Sadly, it is all too evident that her Voice was affected (by her illness).
Many times--both print and documentary interviews--Richard has claimed otherwise.
Especially (IMHO) with the Top Of The World Performance--as it differs most dramatically from
that which is on the previous studio recordings. ( Big difference from 1973 to 1981).
Whereas, this Touch Me performance is actually much closer to the studio recording.
(When was the studio recording done for Touch Me When We're Dancing?).
(By the way, the flight from NYC to Paris took about 3 and 1/2 hours, according to the Fan Club.).

Touch Me seems to be one of the first tracks they did for MIA. They began June 12th '80 so I'm guessing mid-June '80.

Regarding the flight time, Paris is 6 hours ahead of NYC. And I'm guessing flights were a little slower 35 years ago than they are now. Maybe the fanclub did some bad maths and didn't factor in the time change.

 

[WYBIMLA]

I find it weird that she was said to be "fully fit now" when clearly she wasn't.
I posted an excerpt from the interview I am referring to below.

I've also found Richard's denial of a change in her voice rather strange also.
All of us know there is a change. I guess we can conclude it was her health in part to blame.

I don't think anybody at the time knew much of anything about what she was going through.
It was easier to deny it.

And upon watching that horrid "final hours autopsy" documentary it was really severe, severe what she had.
Which is sad. Gives total meaning to her being referred to as a "trooper".

That's what makes this special for me and for all of us. There's Karen singing one last time. Not in the best of health, but she loved her fans.
That's all I felt from that video was love, and KC giving the best she could during the last bit of time she had left.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Thanks Harry, that great...it's a keeper for sure.

I think when you take this outside the context of the video, it does shine a bit better, although technical difficulties exist, it's cool to hear them blending there oohhs and ahhhs toward the end. Karen is really singing high here. much higher than we have ever heard her sing live before. There's a spot on this audio about 2:56 to the end before Karen speaks that's really a highlight for me, it's really short but it's basically just Karen and Richard's vocals without the piano and backing track and boy does that sound awesome. It almost sounds like they booster her mic at that moment because there's less backing track and Richard comes in...really nice!!

It makes this even more special that it could be the last live audio performance given by Carpenters. Karen sang at the Buckley school but she was by herself and I'm not sure if that was live or it she lip synched but it wasn't Richard. So Touch Me might be the last live audio performance we know of for now.

 

[newvillefan]

Karen sang at the Buckley school but she was by herself and I'm not sure if that was live or it she lip synched but it wasn't Richard. So Touch Me might be the last live audio performance we know of for now.

Karen took along a copy of Christmas Portrait and sang along to it for the children (including her godchildren) in the classroom at the Sherman Oaks school. There was no PA or mic, she sat in front of the class and entertained them.

I do think this 1981 performance in Holland really was her last ever live vocal performance.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I do think this 1981 performance in Holland really was her last ever live vocal performance.

That's amazing to think the fans have stumbled upon this after all this time. Didn't someone say that they were riding in a car with Karen and she was in the passenger seat singing a song and the person remembered that Karen's voice was barely audible, meaning it was soft and light by nature. It must be true that she needed the right mic and studio ambiance to get the sound we hear on the records/CDs.

 

[Chris May]

That's amazing to think the fans have stumbled upon this after all this time. Didn't someone say that they were riding in a car with Karen and she was in the passenger seat singing a song and the person remembered that Karen's voice was barely audible, meaning it was soft and light by nature. It must be true that she needed the right mic and studio ambiance to get the sound we hear on the records/CDs.

I believe it was record exec (and former boyfriend) Mike Curb that said that, while driving Karen to A&M so she could put the finishing touches on Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town.

 

[GaryAlan]

The description referred to, and explained by Mike Curb,
is in the BBC 2003 Documentary:
Living Famously (on Youtube, Part 2, at 7 min 54sec to 8:14).

 

[JayJayVA]

In my opinion (a guess) - Karen's unsatisfactory relationship with her husband Tom Burris could've played a major part in her aggressive anorexia issues during this time. If she wasn't getting the love, affection, or pyschological support from her husband, it could manifest in her behavior & health. She looked healthy/happy at her marriage (August, 1980) & to look like this a year later, something went wrong. HELLO TOM!

 

[newvillefan]

In my opinion (a guess) - Karen's unsatisfactory relationship with her husband Tom Burris could've played a major part in her aggressive anorexia issues during this time. If she wasn't getting the love, affection, or pyschological support from her husband, it could manifest in her behavior & health. She looked healthy/happy at her marriage (August, 1980) & to look like this a year later, something went wrong. HELLO TOM!

In my mind there's no doubt this was a major factor in her decline during 1981 and ultimate demise.

 

[WYBIMLA]

It's depressing to think that the lady who sang about love songs mostly would be denied the very thing she was willing to give like that.
I mean you think of "I need to be in love", ideas brought on in "TMWWD" and even "Because we are in love". It's something she had a soft spot for the way she sang love songs. It's clear through those sentiments about relationships and complicated feelings I think. It shows strength that she could get up there and keep on keeping on despite everything happening at the time. However, perhaps also her own way to drown out painful feelings by using work as a distraction. "Where do I go from here?" comes to mind too as being rather revealing posthumously hearing phrases like "can't stop singing sad songs". I believe she really felt a lot of that, and for an imagined or actual break up I suppose. It isn't all for show, imo. I think she really dug deep and connected like in "When it's gone" which couldn't have been a more sad way to end the 40/40 collection. A dose of reality in the way that was chosen it appeared to me. Non the less she was and still is very special lady and brave I might add. Emotion from another place... another time... unlikely to be duplicated or equalled.

 

[newvillefan]

TopPop (the other Dutch station that hosted an appearance by Richard and Karen in 1981) have recently re-posted their clip of the same song on YouTube (high quality and without the watermark):

 

[Eyewire]

I just searched YouTube on the off chance and found this...published just yesterday. And get this...it's a live lead vocal from Karen. It wasn't until the middle of the first verse that I realised...it's note perfect. Richard's mic is also live (listen to the instrumental sax section, you can hear him singing). All in all...WOW!



You can also "like" the Facebook page that hosted it..."Craptastic 80s"

https://www.facebook.com/craptastic80s

Thanks again for posting the video Stephen! I devoted time tonight to watch it more closely and I think it's a lovely performance. I will treasure it for a long time.

 

[GaryAlan]

The Live performance of
Touch Me When We're Dancing,
this gem from late 1981,
brings to mind a few questions:
(1) On the recording of the same name ,presumably cut 1980,
why bother with the so-called "Carpettes" ?
as I believe the song would be improved if
Karen and Richard were the only background vocalists.
(2) Even accounting for her physical state in late 1981,
it is obvious to my ears that Karen could still "belt it out"
when called for; which brings up---again-- my curiosity
regarding her vocals being "far back in the mix" on the album
Made In America. Certainly, during the recording of the Album,
Karen was vocally stronger.
(The Heb Alpert 20/20 segment, Olivia Hollywood Nights segment: again, evidences same.)

 

[Joeyesterday]

TopPop (the other Dutch station that hosted an appearance by Richard and Karen in 1981) have recently re-posted their clip of the same song on YouTube (high quality and without the watermark):

Interesting that Karen holds the mic in her left hand and gestures with her right...just the opposite of the live posting.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

That's a good point. I have always thought Karen's studio recordings were always very intimate however it's nothing compared to how she can gives certain live lyrics an even more personal touch and like you said a real yearning in her voice. It makes me wonder how she is able to control that feeling in the studio as it's so controlled yet when gives a live vocal she adds more sparkle to the lyric and in some cases more meaning.

This video is a great example of that as there are spots in this one that she adds that special embellish, it makes my ears stand up as I'm use to hearing the studio version and then she she does this it's like "wow" especially too when she walks away and Karen and Richard are doing their vocal stuff. The other video of a perfect example of what she can do differently live is "I Need To Be In Love" from the Bruce Forsyth Show, for me that version is how the studio version should have been done, such an intimate reading.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Speaking of "live" vocals, I really wish Karen had performed this with a live vocal take, she is so playful with the camera that I can only imagine how her voice would have sounded.

 

[CraigGA]

Gosh I too hate to say it, but for as wonderful as it is to have what is perhaps Karen's last - or close to last live documented performance, she sounds very unhealthy to me here. She doesn't seem to have the same overall vocal control with regard to pitch and phrasing. DON'T SHOOT ME!! But that's what I'm hearing rather consistently throughout. She'd lost much of her spunk by this point.

She sounds as if she has no energy as one would in her condition. Certainly not the super superb vocals we hear in 1971-74 concerts and tv, but still heartfelt.

 

[JBee]

She sounds as if she has no energy as one would in her condition. Certainly not the super superb vocals we hear in 1971-74 concerts and tv, but still heartfelt.

Yes, I have no idea what those who say (and its not just Richard) that she always sounded fantastic and the illness didn't affect her vocals are listening to. Even if it was just a stamina issue, it clearly did do damage. She was still better than other singers but her vocals are not as strong in 80-82 (with "Now"). Given how much her voice meant to Karen (for instance, IF she was indeed taking ipecac, I don't think she would have if she knew the damage it could cause) if more people told her that she was not sounding as good, maybe she would have gone for help earlier.

 

[K.C. Jr]

I always thought she sounded great when she sang, from 1966 all through 1982. I found that she was, indeed, quieter and more refined by 1981. (Result of the solo session influences, maybe?) She said that she "oversang". Well, since even when she oversang she sang better than most do normally, I can't say that it was ever a problem. Honestly! I never thought she sounded worse, just styled differently. I always thought "Now" was one of her best performances, but certainly to each his own.

 

[tomswift2002]

I just watched the first video, and it was really nice, plus I like how Karen did that 80's style out, but all throughout I found Karen seemed to be having fun with the song.

Of course one thing that was nice with the video was that it appeared to be recorded at the SP speed on VHS, and with it being from the Netherlands, I would assume the original recording was made on either a PAL or SECAM VCR. One thing with PAL/SECAM VCR was that they only had two speeds prior to 1998, so most recordings were recorded in the higher quality SP mode as that was the more common speed and the one that was guaranteed to playback on all VCR's, unlike here in North America were we had 3 speeds, and most people chose the worst speed for recording, SLP/EP. Of course, with that being said, it would've been nice if the person who transferred the video of the Carpenters performance, had cleaned the VCR first, as I noticed all the white specks throughout, so that probably means the VCR heads haven't been cleaned in years.

 

[JBee]

And yet in the modern world I don't those closest to Karen (or A&M either, who seemed to do nothing for one of the cornerstones of their company) would a) let her out there doing concerts/publicity like this, especially during the MIA publicity tour, or b) they would stage an intervention long before it got as bad as it did in '81. Because they knew nothing of eating disorders they just thought if they shoved food at her or told her to eat or imagined it was just another diet that might be the key. We know now none of that works. Ironically it took Karen's death to bring attention at least to the disease (which it shouldn't have - if she had survived her plight I think she still would have become the "face" of anorexia, but this time a survivor).

 

[Robert Nunemaker]

I absolutely love everything Karen does, so I'm biased. That said, her voice seemed a bit high and "girlish" instead of the fullness we've come to expect. I suspect her anorexia was beginning to affect her voice. Still, I don't think there will ever be a voice that affects me like hers did. I truly believe that she would have went down in history and been respected as much as Ella, Aretha, Barbara, and others as well as known simply as "Karen".

 

[A&M Retro]

I absolutely love everything Karen does, so I'm biased. That said, her voice seemed a bit high and "girlish" instead of the fullness we've come to expect. I suspect her anorexia was beginning to affect her voice. Still, I don't think there will ever be a voice that affects me like hers did. I truly believe that she would have went down in history and been respected as much as Ella, Aretha, Barbara, and others as well as known simply as "Karen".

Good points, Robert. In a big way, though, Karen HAS gone down in history as one of the most talented vocalists of any generation. But the truth is she did it all in just 13 years of recording.