CD's Helped or Hurt Your Listening Experience?

Rick-An Ordinary Fool

Well-Known Member
We have come a long way in how music is available to purchase today. When I was growing up, I still remember going with my parents to the department store (it was sorta like an everything store from paints to lawn to household and they had a record section) it was filled with the latest 8 track tapes and LP's. As I got into my teen years it was heading down to the latest record store like Peaches Records and Tapes or Musicland in the malls. I would always head to Olivia's section and then Carpenters and even the 12" LP sections of which Peaches always had a huge supply. I've got some 12" LPs from those very days still in my collection.

Then Cd's took hold and I stopped collecting LP's. It was all about CD's and my LP's took back seat.

Fast forward to today and I was saying to myself...have CD's actually hurt my listening experience? Do CD's allow me to make sacrifices in sound for convenience?

Since the fiasco with the Carpenters Vinyl Box Collection, I have been back to visiting all my original LP's from the 70's and 80's (most I have replaced with sealed copies over the years) and I am now in the process of ripping all these through Audacity to allow for on the go listening. I'm currently on CTY (which was one of the sealed originals I got many years ago) and I am blown away at the sonics. I listen to this and you really get immersed in how a song can start off softly then build like We've Only Just Begun and you hear all the highs and lows without leaving any fatigue to the ear. In fact it's so good that I don't want to stop listening and look forward to how the next song is going to intrigue my ears.

I've realized I've lost some of this excitement/experience with the age of CD's. For instance at one point I thought that the Carpenters 35th anniv CD box set from Japan was all the rage on CD until I started going back to the original LP's and hearing how much more I'm getting sound wise as a listener than the CD version. I know all CD's are not like this but in my quest to obtain the best sounding CD's (of the Carpenters work) has sorta left me still wanting more, maybe the next CD will be better so I buy the next CD and it's still not enough so I buy another CD etc...

So today I'm realizing that a good clean original pressing LP is worth it's weight in gold to the sound of some of these CD's and even the 2017 remastered LP's that I've had the chance to hear don't compare to the original 70's & 80's pressings.

So has CD's sacrificed your listening experience for the quest of hearing the best possible sound from your favorite artist? CD's are more convenient pop them in and go while LP's take more of your time to preserve and keep in good condition.

I always ask myself when I get back into my LP's why do they sound so good to me, why do the vocals pop out more and instruments sound so crisp and clear, the highs and lows just sound better to me, why is that happening in this format and I don't get that same experience with the same album on the CD format?

I know this topic has been debated before but I'd like to hear your opinions.
 
I think the answer depends to some degree on equipment. If you're playing your records on a cheapy turntable with a budget cartridge, then no, a record isn't going to sound better than a standard CD. But then that depends on what kind of CD player one is using - if it's a cheapy boombox, then the CDs aren't going to sound all that good.

But I think the qualifier there is that if one is using a cheap turntable and/or a cheap CD player, then they are probably not all that interested in top quality sound.

For me, CDs are what I aspire to. I went through three-and-a-half decades of my life where records (vinyl) was the preeminent sound format. Even then, there were cheap record players and high-end systems designed to eek out the finest sound. Then came the Compact Disc. I was skeptical at first, but once I hear the music with no clicks, ticks, rumbles or hums, I was sold. And it was just a matter of time before the music that I wanted became available on CD. Some of it arrived quickly, others are still trickling out all these years later.

Now, with the specifics of Carpenters, I couldn't wait for each album to become available in the new CD format. My first CD player, a nice Sony unit that still works to this day if you help the drawer to open, sounded great. In addition to cleaner sounds, I no longer heard splashy "S" sounds on inner grooves of albums. That was quite a revelation. To this day, some tracks *still* have my brain hearing a splash "S" where it used to be on the vinyl album.

Since that time, I've upgraded my cartridge and stylus on my turntable. Things sound a lot better than they did, but there are still imperfections in the vinyl format that disappear totally on *most* CDs. There are unfortunately CDs manufactured today that are mere vinyl needledrops, and the ticks and clicks are still there - removed to some degree, but careful listening will reveal them. We've heard them in some of the rarer tracks from Japan, like "Santa Claus..." on the Japan Single Box.

But 99% of Carpenters official CDs were mastered pretty well, using the best masters available at the time (I've noted in our Resource which ones sound particularly bad). People sometimes ask me about one compilation versus another, and for the most part, they're almost all pretty darned good - at least to my ears. Admittedly, I've been around the block a few times, so it's possible my hearing isn't quite as acute as it used to be, but I still sometimes surprise myself at what I hear that others can't (like that noise in "Yesterday Once More" that seems to evade everyone but me).

And there are certain tracks that we've uncovered where the vinyl mastering outshines that which was done for CD. "B'wana..." being the most recent example. But then even the different CD masterings had different EQ on that track. The old A&M and the SWEET MEMORY version outshine the versions on PASSAGE and some other comps.

When you've directly compared every version of every song with every other version (and I have!) you can hear the different mastering choices that the engineers made when compiling their CDs. Some are loud, some are soft, some have more highs, some have more lows. Which one is correct? That's the question that no-one can really answer. Onoe might find a particular EQ setting perfectly correct on one day, and the next it'll sound harsh or too bass-y. It's all subjective, and I think the same goes for choosing LPs over CDs or vice versa.

Rick, when you're through with your admirable project of needledropping your LPs, give a listen to a well-mastered CD set like ESSENTIAL COLLECTION or SWEET MEMORY. You might once again be amazed at how good a CD can sound.
 
In my opinion, vinyl LPs have the potential to sound better than CD, and by "better", I mean more lifelike - if you have an unworn LP, pressed on high quality vinyl, played on a decent turntable, with a good cartridge and stylus (at least an elliptical, diamond stylus), proper cartridge and tonearm alignment, ideal tracking weight, and of course, you meticulously clean the record before every play. There are just so many variables involved!

A well-mastered CD will sound decent on even the cheapest player, as long as you've got good speakers or headphones, with the advantage of no pops, ticks, groove distortion, or rumble. But I can't emphasize "well-mastered" enough. So many CDs were ruined by the "loudness wars". The Corrs "Borrowed Heaven" comes to mind.

If you want to be amazed at what CD is really capable of, I suggest listening to Amy Grant's "The Collection". The dynamic range will floor you.
 
So has CD's sacrificed your listening experience for the quest of hearing the best possible sound from your favorite artist? CD's are more convenient pop them in and go while LP's take more of your time to preserve and keep in good condition.

I always ask myself when I get back into my LP's why do they sound so good to me, why do the vocals pop out more and instruments sound so crisp and clear, the highs and lows just sound better to me, why is that happening in this format and I don't get that same experience with the same album on the CD format?
Kind of split on that topic myself. Given a choice, I prefer the sound of a good, clean LP over digital any day of the week. Only thing is, it cost me a bit to get where I'm at with my playback system, and still looking to upgrade, so there is that.

SACD (which uses DSD...Direct Stream Digital as opposed to PCM digital that CDs and other high-resolution files use) is arguably the highest quality digital out there, yet I still have a case where even with the same master tapes being used, from the same label, the vinyl still is the one that gives the most musical (one might even say "human") performance to it. (I have the SACD and 45 RPM vinyl for a few titles.) It just brings me closer to the music, I guess I'm saying.

I know that some complain about noise on vinyl, but trust me, once you get past a certain level, noise is not even an issue. I've heard systems at audio shows that cost multiple times more than what I spent, and the playback is so crystal clear that you'd think they were playing a master tape. And some of these are bog standard records you can buy at any used record store!

Digital...that's a tricky one. For years I had a Pioneer Elite "universal" player that would handle CD, SACD and DVD-Audio. It was OK...but I also noticed after the fact that I was getting headaches from digital (primarily CD) that I wasn't having with vinyl. I upgraded the player substantially (to the top Oppo model a few years ago...thankfully a demo unit since I didn't pay full list price for it). While I can still tell when something is from a CD, it noticeably improved the sound. For lack of a better description, the Pioneer sounded hard, harsh, cold..."digital" to me. The Oppo did a nice job turning this into "music." Made CDs tolerable. Improved the high-res also. Much smoother highs, and a wide soundstage that extends beyond the speakers (something the Pioneer never could do).

Even so, I find I've "hit the wall" and still know there is better digital out there. Thing is, now I'm having to choose between two options like the Oppo Sonica DAC with Modwright modifications (including a new analog section that has a tube output stage), or going up as far as the PS Audio Directstream DAC, which is one of the most innovative things out there (it is essentially future-proofed). Yet these cost a lot. So I'd have to justify it. Yes, I do have a lot available on the server (no more discs used here--everything is ripped, then stored away), so it might be worth it a few years down the road so I can get the most out of them. It just seems as though I have to spend a lot more on digital to get what I'm hearing on analog.

CDs can sound more "dry" than vinyl--the bit rate of CDs is so low (16 bits) that it cuts off what is called the "reverb trail." In addition, I hear a high pitched sawtooth distortion that makes the highs (like cymbals and percussion) sound almost like they are "buzzing" in a way. (Wish I could think of a betterway to describe it.) Not natural at all to me. Thankfully there is now high resolution digital being sold that helps, but the selection of high-res is limited at this point.

CDs were fun to collect for a while, especially when there were so many releases each week (reissues mainly, and it was a kick to see an old worn out favorite show up on CD). Even now, I will get one in a pinch if I cannot find suitably clean, unplayed vinyl. I'd rather have the music in some form, than not to have it at all. :)
 
Amen on those bad masterings from the loudness wars. They sound horrible.

the Pioneer sounded hard, harsh, cold..."digital" to me. The Oppo did a nice job turning this into "music."

I had a situation like this. I'd gotten used to the sound of an early Sony CD player and then I went out and bought a LaserDisc player. For some reason, the same CD played on the LD player sounded smoother, more music-like. The difference was subtle, but I noticed it.

Today most of my musical listening is done on the computer with headphones. My needledrops can sound as good as professional CDs, maybe better. I used an example in another thread: an old childhood album, HELL BENT FOR LEATHER by Frankie Laine was one I wanted to have. A wonky CD from Europe sounded awful - it was itself a needledrop of a noisy LP. So I set about finding an original clean LP, and latched onto a Columbia six-eye label stereo pressing. That thing sounded so good it was like Frankie Laine was right here in the room singing to me. The needledrop version I ripped to computer sounds every bit as good to me, leaving that crappy CD in the dust.
 
For me CDs have helped my listening experiences they were better than cassettes by far and to my ears I think they prepared me for future digital audio ( such as downloads many years later) I don't think they have harmed me at all.
 
When there's an album title I don't have but would like to have, the first thing I do is go look for a CD. If the CD is reasonably priced, I'll buy it. If it's OOP and fetching big bucks, I'll explore vinyl to see if it's available in that format, and try to determine if what's out there is described as clean.

Another case in point - I've recently become fond of a track on England Dan & John Ford Coley's second A&M album called FABLES. I don't own it, but I DO have the one track on CD, which is how I discovered it. The album has never been put onto CD, so the best I could do was to find a relatively clean copy of the vinyl, which I did. It should arrive in a few days and we'll see.
 
I'm a CD guy all the way, but not necessarily because of the sound quality -- it's about convenience. I have about 99% of the albums I care about on CD, with just a smallish handful of titles that I've given up on them ever coming out. Actually to be more accurate, I'm probably more of an iPod guy than a CD guy these days -- at least 90% of my listening is done while driving. I'm a big one for taking a half-hour drive and listening to music. Anytime a new album I care about comes out, I carve out enough time in my schedule so I can go for a drive and listen to the whole thing. I'm hardly ever listening to music at home, and if I am, I'm doing something else at the same time, so I can't really concentrate on the music the way I'd like to.

I've always had the best stereo system I could afford in any vehicle I've owned, but my most recent system is the "factory" one that came in my Ford F-150. It has pretty good sound, although I wish it had better EQ capabilities -- it's kind of midrangey. But I can usually tweak it to where I'm satisfied. (It often refuses to "play nice" with my iPod -- I have to unplug it and plug it back in to get it to be seen by the truck, which is an annoyance.)

My other favorite way to listen is on my Bose headphones, either while on a plane trip or while doing some kind of busywork around the house. One tradition of mine is to find a nice sunny day in early November, get the headphones out, and put up the Christmas lights on the house while listening to tunes. (Don't worry, Christmas purists -- I put the lights up while it's nice out, but we don't turn them on until the day after Thanksgiving!)
 
I know the feeling.

If I want to get technical about it, I'm not even a "CD" listener anymore. :wink: The only CD/SACDs/BluRay discs I have touched in recent years have been only once, to rip them and store them on the network box (and copy what I need onto a huge SD card and USB thumb drive for the car or portable use). So I totally get the iPod thing.

Part of this move is due to recent purchases being high-res; I avoid CD/standard-resolution digital now if a better alternative is out there, including vinyl (which I can digitize with a needle drop). And higher-resolution is primarily downloads, although some special edition releases have cone along on BluRay now. Some think high-res is expensive, but if we shop the sales, they cost about what CDs used to back in the 80s...but using today's dollars.

But the vinyl...

That's a whole different ballgame for me. That's an active process, when a person sits down to specifically listen to the music. The sound from a properly set up vinyl rig is a treat, which is why many still enjoy it today. It also digitizes well, and I have needle drops here that surpass (or at least match) the digital equivalent.

One thing about music as a hobby, though, is that we often have to accept music in whatever format we can find it in. I have LPs, still, that never made it to CD or digital. Further, of those, I have albums on my want list that I've never found clean vinyl copies of, and had to settle for a reel tape. Some CD editions don't sound good, or are incomplete (such as a double album reduced to one CD, with tracks eliminated), so having the vinyl is where we can find the music we're after.
 
Rudy I Agree with you .In my case when I began consolidating my old tapes and vinyl to CDR it was originally to preserve the stuff that I didn't have either on digital or any other way and it took a lot of work to get them sounding their very best and fortunately they uploaded to my music playlist on my laptop very well and the backup SD Card which I copied my playlist and it all sounds stellar too since it's been years since I owned a turntable i either had a friend who had one with good music software who transferred my vinyl or I would go to my source for Vinyl to CD needledrops which I pay a good chunk of change for but for the price I get the vinyl l.p. and 2 identical custom needledrop Discs so to me I use that service for items I can't get any other way. So That's another way CDs have Been good to me and will continue to do so because they are my first generation Digital sources for future transfers to better devices in the future
 
Somewhat related, but we know CDs have been taking a big nosedive in sales. (Even used record stores see it--some here won't even buy CDs back from customers anymore.)

Then, this tidbit caught my eye in the news. DADC is Sony's digital disc (CD, DVD, etc.) manufacturing facility in Terre Haute, Indiana.

375 DADC employees to lose their jobs, sources say some already let go

TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (WTHI) - Big layoffs are on the way for a major Terre Haute employer.

On Wednesday, we learned that Sony DADC plans to let go of half of their workforce. Sources tell News 10 some employees have already been let go at Sony DADC in Terre Haute. According to a document called a Warn Notice, terminations could continue through August. This all comes following an outsourcing agreement.

That's according to Sony spokesperson Lisa Gephardt. She says manufacturing of CDs and DVDs will move to "Technicolor Home Entertainment" based out of California. Gephardt says more competition from streaming services also played a part in this decision.

In the meantime, the Terre Haute plant will continue to make Playstation related items. Officials told us they anticipate about 375 people to be let go.

On Wednesday, we reached out to several employees. On Thursday, we will reach out to city leaders. We're hoping to hear from both in the coming days. Gephardt said the company will continue to employ around 300 people.

 
For me CDs are definitely more convenient, but I would prefer the entire experience of pulling the LP from my shelves putting it on the turntable and LISTENING to it over a decent system as I peruse the liner notes, relaxing in the recliner with an ice cold hops soda in hand. When driving I always grab a CD or two (or three) but my car listening time seems more focused on political talk radio than music these days.

At home (being turntable-less for nearly two decades) I relax to the tunes that are on my iPhone mostly. I DID get a turntable for Christmas but feel I'd rather wait to set it up after I move. And I am still looking for the part I need for the Dual turntable my wife got me many years ago at Rudy's suggestion... I won't mind having a second turntable at all!

Since retiring from the Navy I haven't listened to mp3s on my computer because I can hear the compression more and more as I get older. Which is odd since your hearing is supposed to get worse as you age. Maybe my slowly degenerating hearing only allows me to hear slowly degenerating compression! The only reason I listened to my music this way was because when you're constantly deploying all over the world a nice hard drive is the only way to carry 15,000 tunes with you wherever you go!

--Mr Bill
 
Somewhat related, but we know CDs have been taking a big nosedive in sales. (Even used record stores see it--some here won't even buy CDs back from customers anymore.)

Then, this tidbit caught my eye in the news. DADC is Sony's digital disc (CD, DVD, etc.) manufacturing facility in Terre Haute, Indiana.

375 DADC employees to lose their jobs, sources say some already let go

TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (WTHI) - Big layoffs are on the way for a major Terre Haute employer.

On Wednesday, we learned that Sony DADC plans to let go of half of their workforce. Sources tell News 10 some employees have already been let go at Sony DADC in Terre Haute. According to a document called a Warn Notice, terminations could continue through August. This all comes following an outsourcing agreement.

That's according to Sony spokesperson Lisa Gephardt. She says manufacturing of CDs and DVDs will move to "Technicolor Home Entertainment" based out of California. Gephardt says more competition from streaming services also played a part in this decision.

In the meantime, the Terre Haute plant will continue to make Playstation related items. Officials told us they anticipate about 375 people to be let go.

On Wednesday, we reached out to several employees. On Thursday, we will reach out to city leaders. We're hoping to hear from both in the coming days. Gephardt said the company will continue to employ around 300 people.

This I'm sure is only the beginning of even more layoffs and massive changes in the industry however for me since everything I do musically revolves around CDs as master source materials I'm more likely to find more out of print good condition used discs that I couldn't find or was too poor to buy in its heyday ( my good experiences on Amazon as examples come to mind) and like some vinyl LPs and cassettes there are some CD titles I have that will Never see a Digital download release that are currently long out of print. So like vinyl save your CDs too you can rip them into the newer technology
 
My CDs are already all stored as lossless FLAC files, so no loss there. And technically for legal reasons, you have to retain your physical copy of a recording even if you rip it. Although I think many out there probably have not done that. :wink: The idea is to save it in the best possible format, then if it is needed in a different format in the future, it can be converted as needed. It is also good to treat the ripped FLAC copies as backups--my luck, a particular favorite of mine would get CD rot (or whatever it was called) and be unplayable. I have a couple where the hub has cracked in storage and nearly split into the playable area--since I have a backup now, it's not a total loss if the disc cracks further.

Digitizing vinyl is a good practice for backing those up as well. It's not the original item, but at least it would not be a total loss if anything should happen to it.
 
My CDs are already all stored as lossless FLAC files, so no loss there. And technically for legal reasons, you have to retain your physical copy of a recording even if you rip it. Although I think many out there probably have not done that. :wink: The idea is to save it in the best possible format, then if it is needed in a different format in the future, it can be converted as needed. It is also good to treat the ripped FLAC copies as backups--my luck, a particular favorite of mine would get CD rot (or whatever it was called) and be unplayable. I have a couple where the hub has cracked in storage and nearly split into the playable area--since I have a backup now, it's not a total loss if the disc cracks further.

Digitizing vinyl is a good practice for backing those up as well. It's not the original item, but at least it would not be a total loss if anything should happen to it.
Agreed on All points I'm painfully aware of the Legal reasons but nonetheless for me it's all about Maintaining what I have it took me 40 years to build the collection I have today. And preserving it for future use is important I call it Protecting my investments
 
My CDs are already all stored as lossless FLAC files, so no loss there. And technically for legal reasons, you have to retain your physical copy of a recording even if you rip it. Although I think many out there probably have not done that. :wink: The idea is to save it in the best possible format, then if it is needed in a different format in the future, it can be converted as needed. It is also good to treat the ripped FLAC copies as backups--my luck, a particular favorite of mine would get CD rot (or whatever it was called) and be unplayable. I have a couple where the hub has cracked in storage and nearly split into the playable area--since I have a backup now, it's not a total loss if the disc cracks further.

Digitizing vinyl is a good practice for backing those up as well. It's not the original item, but at least it would not be a total loss if anything should happen to it.
This is really an important statement but one that I have not yet done. All of my CD's are ripped in my iTunes library in 320 kbps (VBR) which in turn my library is backed up through Apple's time capsule. I do know that FLAC is really the way I should have ripped these first so that a backup could be saved and so that no loss is done however it's not how I've done it all these years and something I regret. Keeping the FLAC as the backup and then using that FLAC to rip into your mp3 for media on the go. For me to now go back and do it all over again would be a feat to accomplish. I'm not one to toss away any of my CD's so I could always do this once I retire and I have more time. However by the time I retire it will be some other way to save your stuff. lol

I would hate to think of one day I go to open the jewel cases of some rare CD's (like the German pressing of Christmas Portrait) and something has happened to the CD leaving it unplayable. All that money I spent on getting that (I have 2) would kill me if that happened. It's making me think of at least encoding some FLAC files at least just for those precious CD's so a backup is always there for me.

Interesting stuff to think about for sure.

P.S. I'm in the process of needle dropping all my Carpenters original vinyl and I'm up to the 3rd album. I think I'm going to go back and needle drop those first 3 again and save them as one FLAC file to save as the backup and then will do the same going forward toward the rest of the catalog.
 
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When I built this computer a couple of years ago, I installed a BluRay reader/writer, but I also installed my old DVD reader/writer after the fact. Using the dBpoweramp CD Batch Ripper, I can rip through about 40 CDs in an hour, using both drives--it is just a matter of feeding in another disc when the tray opens. (I considered adding a third drive--they are really cheap now--but I could just keep up with two drives as it was.) I wish I had done this a few years ago when I ripped a large portion of the CDs! On a few of the rarer titles I had to fix the metadata before ripping it, but otherwise I just let it fly as-is, and touched up my tags later on.
 
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