Richard’s namesake
Well-Known Member
I’ve already told Chris how much I enjoy his Download interview with John Bettis. What does everyone think of the interview, and of John and his part in Karen & Richard’s story?
Chris interview with John Bettis
- Thread starter Richard’s namesake
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All of The Download interviews are good, but the Carpenters-related ones are my favorites to re-visit occasionally. I love nuts-and-bolts stuff.
Richard’s namesake
Well-Known Member
Me too Mike
WYBIMLA
Well-Known Member
I listened to it when it came out and I've re-listened to it as well not too long ago. Big thanks to Chris for capturing an important piece of the Carpenters story without heavy editing from either a documentary, TV movie or published book.
It was eye-opening for me to the evermore complex nature of Karen's character. It made sense to me that in order to make it through showbiz (both music industry and television industry) for all those years she wasn't a 'sad little girl' for the entire time. Of course not.
This interview brought in more of that sense of Karen that was determined, driven, and involved in decision making.
I'm not sure if it had the same effect for other fans. But it put the pieces together in a way that other materials hadn't before.
Past documentaries or News segments said those types of lines before, but often leaned more into the symptomatology of Karen's conditions.
And when Richard stated anything like what Bettis said before it went in one ear and out the other because the dominant narrative was (and in ways it still is) how depressing Karen's life was and how that matches her singing style and tonal colours she created in her music.
What you get from that is this kind of idea like she is: a 'lost little lamb' that's kinda strung along, meandering around all alone, always tired, life's completely out of control everyday, and like she has no idea what she's doing. As if she's just kind of there, and not wanting any part of it.
That's quite a strange view to have on a pop star.
It's an old trope in ways like a 'damsel in distress' or something like that.
I don't know if that makes sense, but there has been a rather peculiar ideas of who Karen is for decades.
Either she's seen like this lost woman in time and space with a hauntingly beautiful voice or she's seen like an Earth angel with nurturing superpowers or known for only for having had an illness brought to the public's attention in the utmost tragic way.
All of that is sad how the public chooses one of those ideas of who she is and sticks with it, yet ignores the rest.
You certainly can't be in a business like show business and achieve like The Carpenters did with personality and behaviour like that all the time.
There are parts of the narrative of The C's story where it's true she did not feel she had control and there were circumstances outside of her control (E.g. low album sales, solo album fiasco, doomed marriage and therapy not providing what she needed).
In retrospect, it's easier to look back and sort out what was part of her personality/character, situational and what's attributed to her illness.
It is a lot more complicated than that too. The ins and outs of Karen's illness is something we'll never know, and probably don't want to know.
I haven't even gotten into other areas like how she wasn't nervous on stage, yet a feature of eating disorders is nervous energy.
So you see the real contradictions between who she was and how her illness started to affect her.
Like there's many parts of this where I could go on and on and ponder about her life and how she lived.
I think the general public has more to learn on how to talk about mental illness and also about who the person is living with a mental illness.
As severely ill as she became there were other parts that paint a much more sensible view of who she was and how she navigated through the entertainment industry. Bettis hit on those points, and I think it was a necessary interview.
It was eye-opening for me to the evermore complex nature of Karen's character. It made sense to me that in order to make it through showbiz (both music industry and television industry) for all those years she wasn't a 'sad little girl' for the entire time. Of course not.
This interview brought in more of that sense of Karen that was determined, driven, and involved in decision making.
I'm not sure if it had the same effect for other fans. But it put the pieces together in a way that other materials hadn't before.
Past documentaries or News segments said those types of lines before, but often leaned more into the symptomatology of Karen's conditions.
And when Richard stated anything like what Bettis said before it went in one ear and out the other because the dominant narrative was (and in ways it still is) how depressing Karen's life was and how that matches her singing style and tonal colours she created in her music.
What you get from that is this kind of idea like she is: a 'lost little lamb' that's kinda strung along, meandering around all alone, always tired, life's completely out of control everyday, and like she has no idea what she's doing. As if she's just kind of there, and not wanting any part of it.
That's quite a strange view to have on a pop star.
It's an old trope in ways like a 'damsel in distress' or something like that.
I don't know if that makes sense, but there has been a rather peculiar ideas of who Karen is for decades.
Either she's seen like this lost woman in time and space with a hauntingly beautiful voice or she's seen like an Earth angel with nurturing superpowers or known for only for having had an illness brought to the public's attention in the utmost tragic way.
All of that is sad how the public chooses one of those ideas of who she is and sticks with it, yet ignores the rest.
You certainly can't be in a business like show business and achieve like The Carpenters did with personality and behaviour like that all the time.
There are parts of the narrative of The C's story where it's true she did not feel she had control and there were circumstances outside of her control (E.g. low album sales, solo album fiasco, doomed marriage and therapy not providing what she needed).
In retrospect, it's easier to look back and sort out what was part of her personality/character, situational and what's attributed to her illness.
It is a lot more complicated than that too. The ins and outs of Karen's illness is something we'll never know, and probably don't want to know.
I haven't even gotten into other areas like how she wasn't nervous on stage, yet a feature of eating disorders is nervous energy.
So you see the real contradictions between who she was and how her illness started to affect her.
Like there's many parts of this where I could go on and on and ponder about her life and how she lived.
I think the general public has more to learn on how to talk about mental illness and also about who the person is living with a mental illness.
As severely ill as she became there were other parts that paint a much more sensible view of who she was and how she navigated through the entertainment industry. Bettis hit on those points, and I think it was a necessary interview.
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GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, the very-well-watched and highly-rated CBS-TV movie,
The Karen Carpenter Story,
played a rather large role in defining how a "fictionalized" Karen was (and continues to be) remembered by the public.
That movie opens with the date February 4th, 1983 visualized across the TV screen,
accompanied by the song Rainy Days and Mondays playing in the background (for two-minutes).
The movie segues to an unflattering picture of a teenaged-Karen (2:13) singing in a bad high-pitched voice (the song: The End of The World, to 3:09).
Segue to, of all things, Karen grabbing a bowl of candy and beginning to devour it (1963: again, that date across the TV screen).
Okay...I can not watch this entire movie again....terrible movie....
So, for a one-dimensional fictionalized portrait (which cemented itself in the public eye),
we have this movie about Karen, New Years Eve 1989.
In one interview-- at the time Richard stated:
"this is our lives, I mean...this is how many, many people are going to remember Karen and me...." (Entertainment Tonight 1989).
The Karen Carpenter Story,
played a rather large role in defining how a "fictionalized" Karen was (and continues to be) remembered by the public.
That movie opens with the date February 4th, 1983 visualized across the TV screen,
accompanied by the song Rainy Days and Mondays playing in the background (for two-minutes).
The movie segues to an unflattering picture of a teenaged-Karen (2:13) singing in a bad high-pitched voice (the song: The End of The World, to 3:09).
Segue to, of all things, Karen grabbing a bowl of candy and beginning to devour it (1963: again, that date across the TV screen).
Okay...I can not watch this entire movie again....terrible movie....
So, for a one-dimensional fictionalized portrait (which cemented itself in the public eye),
we have this movie about Karen, New Years Eve 1989.
In one interview-- at the time Richard stated:
"this is our lives, I mean...this is how many, many people are going to remember Karen and me...." (Entertainment Tonight 1989).
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
The KCS left a big impression on me as a fan in 1989. I wasn’t home to watch it but I set my VCR as my local TV guide ran an article about the movie.
I had no reason not to believe every word and so I did. Even to this day it’s hard to let go of those emotions that this was how it all happen. It was the first time an official movie had been made of them and I believed every scene and spoken dialog. It became more than just a tv movie for me maybe that’s why it’s so hard to change my mindset and know this was not exactly how it happen.
I completely agree with Gary that this story (movie) is what the public believed and how it happen. For this reason I’m not surprised Richard changed his mind later about the movie.
I had no reason not to believe every word and so I did. Even to this day it’s hard to let go of those emotions that this was how it all happen. It was the first time an official movie had been made of them and I believed every scene and spoken dialog. It became more than just a tv movie for me maybe that’s why it’s so hard to change my mindset and know this was not exactly how it happen.
I completely agree with Gary that this story (movie) is what the public believed and how it happen. For this reason I’m not surprised Richard changed his mind later about the movie.
🎤 Interview - The "Third" Carpenter: A Conversation with John Bettis, Part 1
The "Third" Carpenter: A Conversation with John Bettis, Pt. 1 Songwriter Hall of Fame inductee John Bettis has written number-one hit songs for many artists, to include Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, The Pointer Sisters and Madonna. However, in this first of a two-part interview, we very...
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🎤 Interview - The "Third" Carpenter: A Conversation with John Bettis, Part 2
The "Third" Carpenter: A Conversation with John Bettis, Part 2 [Extended Edit] We continue in our discussion with John Bettis regarding many of the songs he's contributed to the Carpenters' catalogue via his songwriting partnership with Richard Carpenter. John also shares some of his own...
forum.amcorner.com
Richard’s namesake
Well-Known Member
Hi Carl. It’s on You Tube. Just search for John Bettis, it’s likely to come up as a 2-part “video” (audio only) from Chris’ “Download” programme.
Carl
Well-Known Member
Thanks
Or click the handy Links provided by Harry above! 
