🎄 Holidays! "Christmas Once More" [Album]: Spoiler Thread

[Jack A.]

I just graduated Army basic training and got out of Fort Jackson the other day, and was pleasantly surprised to find this new album waiting in my Spotify when I got my phone back. I immediately gave it a listen.

Here are my thoughts:

Very nice. Richard really did a great job giving these Christmas tunes the treatment they deserve (as we all knew he would). Overall, Karen’s out front and showcased more, and the updated orchestration with the RPO makes the arrangements more pleasant and crisper to listen to. “Merry Christmas Darling,” sounds like it wasn’t touched from the version on the original RPO album, which makes sense. But, it was a real treat to hear that same kind of updated treatment on all the other tracks. Specifically, “Sleigh Ride” was a song on which I immediately noticed the extra clarity in Karen’s acapalla introduction - it somehow makes her voice even more intimate - and I could just feel the new life breathed into it with modern-day updates. Same goes for “Christ Is Born,” one of my personal favorites. It just sounds magical to me, now. The choir is brought out front as well on that track, which fills in the sound more and sounds great with headphones. I can pick out individual voices in that choir, including one really high, angelic-sounding soprano. The same can be said for just about all the other tracks.

That being said, I find it rather disappointing that some other tracks didn’t make it onto the album. “Silent Night” and “Do You Hear What I Hear?” are another two of my personal favorites and I would have loved to see them get the same updates (I guess there’s just a lot of material to pick from).

The improved spatial audio technology that wasn’t around originally in 1978 makes everything a lot more immersive to listen to with headphones. It’s so cool to hear all these classic Christmas songs in a new light. Overall, I was very pleased with the way this album turned out and I know we’re all very appreciative of Richard for working so hard to get this made for us. One of the best basic training graduation gifts I could have asked for, something new from my favorite duo!

(P.S. Good to be back on this forum - looks like I missed quite a lot. Hope you’ve all been well. )

 

[tomswift2002]

Interesting write up Tom. So from your opinion it sounds like the album was primarily mixed for the Dolby Atmos processing.

I’d be interested to hear your opinion on the digital downloads. Since you reviewed the CD, did you by chance compare the digital downloads (iTunes, Amazon etc) or even the streaming Spotify or Apple Music. In your opinion do these exhibit the same as the CD?

No I have only bought the CD. As I said I don’t have an Atmos decoder and from what I understand the digital versions are 9.1 mixes (Atmos). However I would also point out, Apple has their own way of decoding Atmos’s Spatial Audio differently from a Dolby Atmos device decoding a Dolby Atmos Spatial Audio, and, from what I have read, other people have found that albums and movie soundtracks that are sold on both sound different (even though it’s the same album/track or movie soundtrack). Apple’s essentially mixes the Atmos recording into binaural stereo to create a “3-D sound stage” on its iPhones, iPads and Apple TV’s, and goes even further to compress Atmos for its AirPods with HRTF. And from what I understand that applies to both iTunes and Apple Music. And I would have to wonder, if I were to cast the iPhone version to a SmartTV or AppleTV in order to play on a surround system, would it be the iPhone binaural stereo version or a different version made just for the AppleTV.

As for Spotify, from what I understand (as of September 2024), they do not stream Atmos, or they only have a few tracks and any “Atmos” playback is an up conversion from the person’s phone/tablet/blu-ray player/game console of Spotify’s 2.0 stereo file. So with Christmas Once More, Spotify is possible using the CD 2.0 stereo master, and then the up conversion is handled by your device, in which case, playback on a iPhone would be different from playback on an Android or a PS4 or blu-ray player or SmartTV, because the playback on the iPhone/Android would be getting a fold down similar to Apple’s HRTF binaural stereo.

So with the Atmos version, just on a technological level there is too many variables to accurately do a comparison of the streaming versions that stem from the different phone manufacturers to just how the distributors decode the Atmos for their streaming services.

 

[Chris]

The idea of moving Karen's vocals far up in the mix may have seemed like a good idea, but in practice, it just doesn't work. She's just too bloody LOUD (as well as the sax solo in "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" - just awful and distracting at that volume)!

The original LP mixes (available on the West German CP CD, and disc 2 of "Christmas Collection") are perfect, and will forever remain the gold-standard.

Let me begin by saying I'm enjoying this release very much, though I find it has its problems as well. I agree that Karen's lead vocals are mixed a bit too loudly now. That was one of my first impressions and it still is after having listened multiple times to the CD on various stereos, headphones, etc. I hesitated to say it here on the forum as I didn't want to sound like I was nitpicking and ungrateful for this release. But yes, I feel that in an attempt to bring her voice up and use less reverb, things have gone too far in the other direction. I find myself having to lower the volume because her leads are causing distortion and hurting my ears at times during certain songs. Of course, I don't mean her natural voice quality itself as we all pretty much agree that she was perfection. The RPO mixes with her freshly mixed, newer generation leads sounded more balanced with the orchestra to me, while still letting those newly remixed lead vocals shine like never before. Now, listening to this new album at a nice, louder level to experience the power of the arrangements and orchestrations along with Karen, I find myself lowering the volume at times due to the imbalance of her leads.

Then by contrast, there are a few instances that her vocal gets a little buried. Like on the last few lines of "Sleep Well Little Children". Which by the way..

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I do find the Dolby Atmos version of the album really fun and mixed better in my opinion. I think that "Christ Is Born" in Atmos is particularly thrilling. When the choir comes in with her it's very dramatic and sounds Iike you're at a live performance.

 

[tomswift2002]

Let me begin by saying I'm enjoying this release very much, though I find it has its problems as well. I agree that Karen's lead vocals are mixed a bit too loudly now. That was one of my first impressions and it still is after having listened multiple times to the CD on various stereos, headphones, etc. I hesitated to say it here on the forum as I didn't want to sound like I was nitpicking and ungrateful for this release. But yes, I feel that in an attempt to bring her voice up and use less reverb, things have gone too far in the other direction. I find myself having to lower the volume because her leads are causing distortion and hurting my ears at times during certain songs. Of course, I don't mean her natural voice quality itself as we all pretty much agree that she was perfection. The RPO mixes with her freshly mixed, newer generation leads sounded more balanced with the orchestra to me, while still letting those newly remixed lead vocals shine like never before. Now, listening to this new album at a nice, louder level to experience the power of the arrangements and orchestrations along with Karen, I find myself lowering the volume at times due to the imbalance of her leads.

Then by contrast, there are a few instances that her vocal gets a little buried. Like on the last few lines of "Sleep Well Little Children". Which by the way..

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I do find the Dolby Atmos version of the album really fun and mixed better in my opinion. I think that "Christ Is Born" in Atmos is particularly thrilling. When the choir comes in with her it's very dramatic and sounds Iike you're at a live performance.

When I think of the RPO album, back in 2018, it wasn’t mixed with Atmos in mind so it could be mixed with an ear for 2.0 Dolby Surround, but still sound good in plain 2.0 Linear Pulse Code Modulation Stereo.

However when I think of Atmos just when it comes to music—-Atmos for 4K Blu-Rays for example, most people are going to be listening on some sort of home theater setup, whether it’s a cheap soundbar, or a full on theater system with 15 speakers, or something in between. So Dolby Atmos will sound good in that situation.

However with Dolby Atmos Music, when I looked at like Apple or Spotify, the main thing they are looking it is how to present the best sound over headphones, because the majority of their customers are going to be listening on AirPods or some other headphone, where they only have 2-speakers in which to create that spatial sound. So Apple is folding the Atmos down to binaural stereo to give that spatial sound from Atmos, and from what I could see, that mix is even used on Apple TV’s for some movies/TV shows with Dolby Atmos, so even if you sent it to a 15 speaker surround system, that system is needing to extract the separate channels from a 2-channel mix.

However the other issue with Atmos music is that, in real life, when we are on the street, the sounds we hear seem to come from all around us, and as humans we don’t really have a frontal direction for sound. If we saw a car crash, without our sight, we wouldn’t know if it came from the side of us or behind us or in front; sight gives us that direction. Atmos music is trying to replicate that, however, while putting the vocals in the front center is good for movies, and has been that way since Dolby Stereo (aka Dolby 2.0 Surround for home theater) was introduced to theaters in the 70’s, vocals being front and center has made sense. However with music, when you think of a live concert, if you closed your eyes the vocalist would not be coming from front center because they would be echoing off the walls and surrounding you with their voice, as well as the instruments.

Atmos tries to mimic that, however, there’s the major issue, how do you get that spatial sound? But then there’s the other issue, if you’re going to headphones, how do you make it work with 2 speakers only? And for you it’ll sound different to what I hear, and that’s been an issue with binaural stereo since it was introduced in the 80’s or 90’s. The binaural stereo mix may have sounded good to the artist and mixing engineer, however, the consumer at home may find it’s horrible.

I’m reminded of how Brian Wilson preferred mixing the 60’s Beach Boys album and songs in mono because he was deaf in one ear, but mono gave him full control over how the listener at home heard the music, because everything was locked into a linear mono track that only Brian Wilson had the key too in terms of how each element was mixed. Stereo was sharing the key. Now Atmos the key is fully with the consumer and what equipment they are using, and that can change the listening process.

 

[goodjeans]

Today "Christmas Portrait" is #32 on iTunes Top Holiday albums and "Christmas Once More" is #82. Did the label expect to only sell copies to the die hard fan or is there some promotional plan that has yet to be put in place?

 

[CraigGA]

I wish all people could listen to this through Dolby Atmos to hear the magic of resurrecting a recording almost a half century old.

 

[tomswift2002]

I wish all people could listen to this through Dolby Atmos to hear the magic of resurrecting a recording almost a half century old.

That’s the problem with Atmos, it depends on the listener and their setup. As I said Apple is folding Atmos down to binaural stereo which is different from regular stereo. Regular stereo and Dolby 2.0 Surround and Pro Logic II and Dolby 5.1/TrueHD and DTS are directional, not spatial. They are doing the best they can, but Atmos (and DTS:X) has a non-linear unpredictability factor built into it that the older formats lack because of their linearity. But also, Atmos relies on each human’s sense of spatial awareness. And if things are not mixed properly, or they are not listening on the best equipment, any fold down to another spatial format like binaural audio is going to sound terrible like the CD’s 2.0 PCM mix.

 

[newvillefan]

As I said Apple is folding Atmos down to binaural stereo which is different from regular stereo. Regular stereo and Dolby 2.0 Surround and Pro Logic II and Dolby 5.1/TrueHD and DTS are directional, not spatial. They are doing the best they can, but Atmos (and DTS:X) has a non-linear unpredictability factor built into it that the older formats lack because of their linearity.

Dare I ask...is anyone really that hung up on this? Listen to the CD on a really good set of stereo headphones and you'll find it sounds great and you'll save yourself a whole lot of stress. Aside from the fact Karen is a little more up front than in the past, it sounds really good.

 

[tomswift2002]

Dare I ask...is anyone really that hung up on this? Listen to the CD on a really good set of stereo headphones and you'll find it sounds great and you'll save yourself a whole lot of stress. Aside from the fact Karen is a little more up front than in the past, it sounds really good.

The thing is binaural stereo and regular stereo are two different things. And on a regular stereo mix (such as the CD, and I would expect the same if you were playing the Apple version on a dock or over analog RCA’s to stereo), Karen’s vocal is damaged and extremely harsh and pushed out of the mix (based on the Pro Logic II playback where she is not harsh or overpowering and her vocal is not damaged), plus other instruments like the new sax stand out like a sore thumb and the phasing issues on the choir l , especially when you are listening without headphones. Essentially Atmos is an all new, different technology from the previous technologies and in the case of Christmas Once More the conversion to the old regular stereo was handled poorly and should not have left Universal without a proper stereo mix.

 

[Matthew S]

The thing is binaural stereo and regular stereo are two different things. And on a regular stereo mix (such as the CD, and I would expect the same if you were playing the Apple version on a dock or over analog RCA’s to stereo), Karen’s vocal is damaged and extremely harsh and pushed out of the mix (based on the Pro Logic II playback where she is not harsh or overpowering and her vocal is not damaged), plus other instruments like the new sax stand out like a sore thumb and the phasing issues on the choir l , especially when you are listening without headphones. Essentially Atmos is an all new, different technology from the previous technologies and in the case of Christmas Once More the conversion to the old regular stereo was handled poorly and should not have left Universal without a proper stereo mix.

Maybe your copy of the CD is defective.

 

[JohnFB]

Dare I ask...is anyone really that hung up on this? Listen to the CD on a really good set of stereo headphones and you'll find it sounds great and you'll save yourself a whole lot of stress. Aside from the fact Karen is a little more up front than in the past, it sounds really good.

Yes, I'm not hung up at all on all those tedious technical details - tired of trying to comprehend even 10% of it - have listened to the CD on "a really good set of stereo headphones, and thru my car's really good stereo system - nothing wrong sonically, but both keep playing "Santa Claus..." over and over for some strange reason...oh, wait - maybe it's because I keep hitting the repeat button...what a freakin' mind-blowing arrangement and vocal!
That was their future - if they would have had a future...

 

[GDBY2LV]

I played my cd copy yesterday, twice. First on my Sony blu-ray all regions player, then on my Yamaha Natural Sound cd player. Both played the disc flawlessly. The Sony sounded better to my ears. Clean an clear. The Yamaha was a bit softer but still excellent. I still used the DTS-Digital Theater Surround mode on my 20 yr. old amp. as it plays through all the home theater speakers that way. The multi stereo surround was clean and clear.
You must have a defective copy of the cd, or the lens on your gaming console is dirty, and needs cleaning. The vinyl, cd, and iTunes Atmos are all just fine this time. Atmos is only available on the iTunes version, and maybe other streaming services, not the vinyl or cd. It only plays on Atmos capable iPods, and other Atmos capable amps or headphones. It’s worth investing in a pair of headphones that work with it, like the Air Pros. A fun way to listen to many albums offered in the format now. COM is truly a gift for the fans.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I’ll probably activate my free 3 months of Apple Music later this month just to hear COM in Atmos on my AirPods. Most likely won’t subscribe monthly but at least it lets me hear what all the talk is about.

Are there any other Carpenters albums with Atmos like the RPO album or just COM?

 

[Matthew S]

I’ll probably activate my free 3 months of Apple Music later this month just to hear COM in Atmos on my AirPods. Most likely won’t subscribe monthly but at least it lets me hear what all the talk is about.

Are there any other Carpenters albums with Atmos like the RPO album or just COM?

Nope, just COM

 

[tomswift2002]

Maybe your copy of the CD is defective.

Nope it’s A&M/Universals masters that are defective because with a CD it’s 1’s and 0’s are digital copies of the masters at Universal. Plus that wouldn’t explain the skipping drums and nothing else in the mix skipping. And, while the CD does have disc rot outside the audio data area, if there was rot in the data are then the disc wouldn’t play or everything would skip.

 

[Song4uman]

I’ve listened to my CD in my car and it sounds great. I don’t have a CD player in the house right now to listen to it on. I listened to the black vinyl through my stereo system and it’s beautiful, but I haven’t listened to the gold album yet.
Jonathan

 

[Matthew S]

Nope it’s A&M/Universals masters that are defective because with a CD it’s 1’s and 0’s are digital copies of the masters at Universal. Plus that wouldn’t explain the skipping drums and nothing else in the mix skipping. And, while the CD does have disc rot outside the audio data area, if there was rot in the data are then the disc wouldn’t play or everything would skip.

Well the masters they used for mine were not defective as my copy has none of those issues. So maybe there are multiple masters being used.

 

[GDBY2LV]

Czech✅✔️☑️

 

[Harry]

The Czech is in the mail...

 

[Randy M]

"Oh, well," as my aunt used to say about something that can't be changed. Expectations for this have hign, and some are more or less pleased. "Oh, well."

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Next week I’ll be able to Czech‘d that I’ve listened to my Cd.

 

[Harry]

And to our friends in the UK and Australia,

CZECH-mate!

 

[Mike Blakesley]

If it were possible for Carpenters to come out with a brand new album recorded yesterday, somebody would be harping about the sound in some fashion. Can't we just be happy that RC is still engaged and doing releases? How long ago was it that he said he was "all done" and there was nothing in the pipeline?

 

[Jack A.]

If it were possible for Carpenters to come out with a brand new album recorded yesterday, somebody would be harping about the sound in some fashion. Can't we just be happy that RC is still engaged and doing releases? How long ago was it that he said he was "all done" and there was nothing in the pipeline?

I agree, I for one as a young fan am grateful that I still get to be around to witness some “official” Carpenters releases, considering their actual career as a duo was quite a while before my time.

 

[Randy M]

My Aunt had a sister-in-law by marriage. She was a fun & chipper lady, always looking at the bright sides of life. More than a millions times I heard her say, "What's not to like?" If she had a complaint, she hid it under her pile of newspapers.