Do You Think Richard Should Release A New Single?

[Don Malcolm]

Each to his own, of course--but in the context of these very subjective assessments I'm always drawn to the "wisdom of the commons" (sidestepping, I hope, the matter of political discussions!). The poll shows that these songs are highly regarded amongst the participants here; in the case of "Road Ode," we haven't specifically polled to determine which version is favored, though a number of folks have weighed in on this subject, sometimes in perplexing terms.

The comment about the song's musical structure ("We've Only Just Begun" sideways) is interesting but off the mark, I think. While both songs have extended choruses that take the song from ballad tempo to something more akin to rock, "Begun" stays in the Bacharach arrangement mode while "Road Ode" has an actual instrumental break, with both versions of it clearly going for a "jam" moment that is common in uptempo songs but rare in C's material. (That may well have come from Sims and Woodhams, who were variously part of the C's band, and brought more of that kind of approach to songwriting than Richard.) I'm more baffled by the idea that the lyrics don't work--they have their points of obliqueness and elision, but the last verse has always hit home for me, even before the revelations of Karen's emotional difficulties made it difficult not to read autobiographical elements into it.

Regardless of all that, I'd stick with the idea that these are two of the strongest songs that never got a chance to connect with the public at the time when they were conceived and performed. They both come from a period when the C's were on such a creative roll that they literally created more 45-worthy tracks than they could exploit given the nature of the music business. As a result, they languish far behind the "greatest hits" in terms of familiarity with the general public, and they strike me as having the best chance to connect with audiences today.

But all this is moot--and we will always be left to speculate about this unless Richard decides to roll the dice and put those songs out into the public in such a context. He's really got nothing to lose, and I still think presenting these two songs to today's public would be his best bet for getting past some of the stereotypes that continue to persist about them.

 

[Jeff]

Each to his own, of course--but in the context of these very subjective assessments I'm always drawn to the "wisdom of the commons" (sidestepping, I hope, the matter of political discussions!). The poll shows that these songs are highly regarded amongst the participants here; in the case of "Road Ode," we haven't specifically polled to determine which version is favored, though a number of folks have weighed in on this subject, sometimes in perplexing terms.

The comment about the song's musical structure ("We've Only Just Begun" sideways) is interesting but off the mark, I think. While both songs have extended choruses that take the song from ballad tempo to something more akin to rock, "Begun" stays in the Bacharach arrangement mode while "Road Ode" has an actual instrumental break, with both versions of it clearly going for a "jam" moment that is common in uptempo songs but rare in C's material. (That may well have come from Sims and Woodhams, who were variously part of the C's band, and brought more of that kind of approach to songwriting than Richard.) I'm more baffled by the idea that the lyrics don't work--they have their points of obliqueness and elision, but the last verse has always hit home for me, even before the revelations of Karen's emotional difficulties made it difficult not to read autobiographical elements into it.

Regardless of all that, I'd stick with the idea that these are two of the strongest songs that never got a chance to connect with the public at the time when they were conceived and performed. They both come from a period when the C's were on such a creative roll that they literally created more 45-worthy tracks than they could exploit given the nature of the music business. As a result, they languish far behind the "greatest hits" in terms of familiarity with the general public, and they strike me as having the best chance to connect with audiences today.

But all this is moot--and we will always be left to speculate about this unless Richard decides to roll the dice and put those songs out into the public in such a context. He's really got nothing to lose, and I still think presenting these two songs to today's public would be his best bet for getting past some of the stereotypes that continue to persist about them.

Bravo!

 

[GaryAlan]

A Song For You....what a great Carpenters' song,
lead vocals, background harmonies, sax break, entire arrangement....
if there is a remaining unreleased Carpenters' song that contains
all of those elements...I'm all for its release !
But, keep in mind,
another 'Leave Yesterday Behind' will not do !
I mean, it'll do for me--for the hardcore fans who clamor for everything--
but, for general release as a Single, the public will need something as
captivating and strong as
A Song For You !

But, still I wonder
--if it is such a strong song, why was it not released as a Single in 1972 ?
Or, at the least, performed in concerts ?

 

[Jeff]

Im hoping what's old is new again. Much as the duos sound broke out against a rock backdrop...today would be refreshed with Karen's voice amidst the shrieking on top 40. If per chance an unreleased song turns up it wouldn't be in single form. I see it more as a teaser, a thanks to hardcore fans. Just to sweeten the mix.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

The comment about the song's musical structure ("We've Only Just Begun" sideways) is interesting but off the mark, I think. While both songs have extended choruses that take the song from ballad tempo to something more akin to rock, "Begun" stays in the Bacharach arrangement mode while "Road Ode" has an actual instrumental break, with both versions of it clearly going for a "jam" moment that is common in uptempo songs but rare in C's material. (That may well have come from Sims and Woodhams, who were variously part of the C's band, and brought more of that kind of approach to songwriting than Richard.) I'm more baffled by the idea that the lyrics don't work--they have their points of obliqueness and elision, but the last verse has always hit home for me, even before the revelations of Karen's emotional difficulties made it difficult not to read autobiographical elements into it.

Listen to the choruses of the two tunes )"...Begun" and "Road Ode"). They both use the same devices. The verses do too. The only difference is the flute solo (which I like). As for the lyric, it just doesn't get where it's going. The thoughts they were trying to get across aren't fleshed out. The choruses are particularly cringe-y from a lyrical standpoint. What they were trying to say was admirable; the words used to get there just don't work for me. It's as though the lyrics were written by people who don't write lyrics. Karen's vocal is very nice and she can almost make me forget the song's weaknesses.

Ed

 

[Michael Hagerty]

No.

A single won't do a darn thing for a Carpenters album at this point. Among the people old enough to remember them, you have fans like the folks here, and the rest of the world, which has put them with Andy Williams and Bing Crosby into the category of "Christmas Music".

And those not old enough (which now includes people as old as 35 or 40)? Not gonna happen. Zero radio support.

There are exactly two things that could jump-start a miniature Carpenters revival (it will never be a full-fledged one):

• A contemporary and hot artist covers one or more Carpenters songs and gets a hit with it/them. The Andrews Sisters enjoyed a small spike in sales when Bette Midler re-did "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" in 1973. Of course, re-doing a Carpenters song for today's musical taste might result in changes so drastic the result would be considered sacrilege on this board.
• A big hit biopic...something along the lines of the Ray Charles one "Ray" (from 2004). But Ray Charles is a considerably more compelling character with stories that could draw the audience. Not sure there's anywhere to go that the 1989 TV movie didn't.

Beyond that, the Carpenters are exactly where the vast majority of popular music artists find themselves---with a core of fans that was with them in the beginning and will remain fans until they die. Given that I was only 14 when the Carpenters hit and I'm 61 now, math and nature tell us that the fan base is already getting smaller as it ages and passes on.

If this seems harsh, consider Karen and Richard's friend and mentor, Herb Alpert. He's been swinging for the bleachers the past seven years, with at least one album of new material a year, some very inventive videos and appearances on everything from Charlie Rose to Jimmy Fallon. He's not back to selling out big arenas or racking up top 10 hits (or even top 40 stiffs)..and he's not getting any radio play either, but he's energizing his core group of fans, and picking up a few new ones here and there. But again, he's capable of creating new music, informed by current trends, and touring to support it. That's something the Carpenters haven't been able to do for almost 40 years.

 

[Bobberman]

No.

A single won't do a darn thing for a Carpenters album at this point. Among the people old enough to remember them, you have fans like the folks here, and the rest of the world, which has put them with Andy Williams and Bing Crosby into the category of "Christmas Music".

And those not old enough (which now includes people as old as 35 or 40)? Not gonna happen. Zero radio support.

There are exactly two things that could jump-start a miniature Carpenters revival (it will never be a full-fledged one):

• A contemporary and hot artist covers one or more Carpenters songs and gets a hit with it/them. The Andrews Sisters enjoyed a small spike in sales when Bette Midler re-did "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" in 1973. Of course, re-doing a Carpenters song for today's musical taste might result in changes so drastic the result would be considered sacrilege on this board.
• A big hit biopic...something along the lines of the Ray Charles one "Ray" (from 2004). But Ray Charles is a considerably more compelling character with stories that could draw the audience. Not sure there's anywhere to go that the 1989 TV movie didn't.

Beyond that, the Carpenters are exactly where the vast majority of popular music artists find themselves---with a core of fans that was with them in the beginning and will remain fans until they die. Given that I was only 14 when the Carpenters hit and I'm 61 now, math and nature tell us that the fan base is already getting smaller as it ages and passes on.

If this seems harsh, consider Karen and Richard's friend and mentor, Herb Alpert. He's been swinging for the bleachers the past seven years, with at least one album of new material a year, some very inventive videos and appearances on everything from Charlie Rose to Jimmy Fallon. He's not back to selling out big arenas or racking up top 10 hits (or even top 40 stiffs)..and he's not getting any radio play either, but he's energizing his core group of fans, and picking up a few new ones here and there. But again, he's capable of creating new music, informed by current trends, and touring to support it. That's something the Carpenters haven't been able to do for almost 40 years.

I couldn't have said it better myself and I totally agree with you on all your points.

 

[GaryAlan]

^^True enough, Michael Hagerty has enumerated beautifully the logical imperatives
which provides for reasoning against any new single release...forever more.
That being said, even going as far back as 1983, one could make the argument that
nothing from Voice Of The Heart onward should have been "released, " after all,
Carpenters' hey-day was long gone. Nothing would ever reach those rarefied heights
of Close To You or We've Only Just Begun (say, really the songs of LP Singles 1969-1973).
But, that argument misses the entire point with me.
It is not about commerciality (more money) nor revitalizing a career, nor recapturing past glory.
It is about " One More Time"...about the experience of hearing, one more time , a once-in-a-lifetime
voice--Karen Carpenter's voice--on something absolutely new.
Karen Carpenter's voice--in my opinion--was so unique, so precious,such that I say "Why Not ?"
Why Not hear one more new tune ? No one has anything to lose at this point in time.
I reiterate--no one has anything to lose by releasing a new Carpenters song.
And, the benefits to humanity are immeasurable.
Sure, I'm not being logical, and Michael Hagerty is absolutely correct in his assessment.
But, Karen Carpenter's voice is really that important, meaningful !
Her voice transcends the here and the now !
Do it for all Humanity,
not simply for me or the hardcore fans, or for one fleeting moment in time, or for more money...
think about its effect lasting long after we are gone--forever !
Call me crazy ! Let's take "forever" seriously !

John Bettis: "...but, Her echo will linger forever "

 

[Michael Hagerty]

^^True enough, Michael Hagerty has enumerated beautifully the logical imperatives
which provides for reasoning against any new single release...forever more.
That being said, even going as far back as 1983, one could make the argument that
nothing from Voice Of The Heart onward should have been "released, " after all,
Carpenters' hey-day was long gone. Nothing would ever reach those rarefied heights
of Close To You or We've Only Just Begun (say, really the songs of LP Singles 1969-1973).
But, that argument misses the entire point with me.
It is not about commerciality (more money) nor revitalizing a career, nor recapturing past glory.
It is about " One More Time"...about the experience of hearing, one more time , a once-in-a-lifetime
voice--Karen Carpenter's voice--on something absolutely new.
Karen Carpenter's voice--in my opinion--was so unique, so precious,such that I say "Why Not ?"
Why Not hear one more new tune ? No one has anything to lose at this point in time.
I reiterate--no one has anything to lose by releasing a new Carpenters song.
And, the benefits to humanity are immeasurable.
Sure, I'm not being logical, and Michael Hagerty is absolutely correct in his assessment.
But, Karen Carpenter's voice is really that important, meaningful !
Her voice transcends the here and the now !
Do it for all Humanity,
not simply for me or the hardcore fans, or for one fleeting moment in time, or for more money...
think about its effect lasting long after we are gone--forever !
Call me crazy ! Let's take "forever" seriously !

John Bettis: "...but, Her echo will linger forever "

Gary: I agree with you (which will likely surprise a lot of people). But I think what you suggest, which comes down to "let us hear what's left" is a bit different from some of this thread, which is tied to the outdated idea of a single which gets radio play, which wins over new fans, etc. As I outlined, that's not gonna happen. But there is zero harm (apart from Richard or a label's inability to recoup costs through sufficient sales) to making material available.

 

[Don Malcolm]

I think this is more about the potential efficacy of an effort to undo the stereotyping that has plagued the C's since their first big success. Michael raises good points about how things have changed in how music reaches the public and about how many (but not all) have put the C's into--for lack of a better term, what we might call the "fogey box." Which, of course, is something that they struggled with during their heyday--not quite being able to decide between several directions during the highly volatile 70s music scene.

That historical narrative is compelling, but perhaps it can't resonate in a world that is so saturated with available content that history seems more and more like an inconvenience. And as Michael points out, there is no possible path for "follow-through" as in the case of Herb Alpert.

As Gary points out, it's Karen's voice that is the key to reaching potential new fans in the present day. And, while Ed's points about "Road Ode" are not without some merit, I still think that an approach for creating any kind of sizable new fan base comes from pushing an approach utilizing it and "A Song for You"...something along the lines of "You know they were hitmakers back in the day--but there's much more to them than that..." These two songs are the ones with Karen at her youthful peak which have not been saturated in the minds of the public, and that is why I will (stubbornly!) persist with the idea that they have the best potential to cut through the preconceptions.

A strategy today quite likely does not require a single--though some kind of focal point for a collection like "Deep Cut Heaven" would still seem to be necessary to shape some kind of marketing approach.

So let's shift the discussion a bit, if we can, and see what people think about the idea of a deep cut collection in terms of its potential to find new fans. If people are not buying the original CDs in favor of compilations (does anyone have data to support/refute that?) then a different type of compilation seems to be worth a shot for such a purpose...

 

[Another Son]

No. There are exactly two things that could jump-start a miniature Carpenters revival - A contemporary and hot artist covers one or more Carpenters songs and gets a hit with it/them. The Andrews Sisters enjoyed a small spike in sales when Bette Midler re-did "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" in 1973. Of course, re-doing a Carpenters song for today's musical taste might result in changes so drastic the result would be considered sacrilege on this board.

• A big hit biopic...something along the lines of the Ray Charles one "Ray" (from 2004). But Ray Charles is a considerably more compelling character with stories that could draw the audience. Not sure there's anywhere to go that the 1989 TV movie didn't.

Beyond that, the Carpenters are exactly where the vast majority of popular music artists find themselves---with a core of fans that was with them in the beginning and will remain fans until they die. Given that I was only 14 when the Carpenters hit and I'm 61 now, math and nature tell us that the fan base is already getting smaller as it ages and passes on.

If this seems harsh, consider Karen and Richard's friend and mentor, Herb Alpert. He's been swinging for the bleachers the past seven years, with at least one album of new material a year, some very inventive videos and appearances on everything from Charlie Rose to Jimmy Fallon. He's not back to selling out big arenas or racking up top 10 hits (or even top 40 stiffs)..and he's not getting any radio play either, but he's energizing his core group of fans, and picking up a few new ones here and there. But again, he's capable of creating new music, informed by current trends, and touring to support it. That's something the Carpenters haven't been able to do for almost 40 years.

You make some very good points, Michael.

I know I'm always mentioning Australia, but I can only join in the discussion from the context of where I live. (Also, I might be able to unearth something new that fans from other parts of the world aren't familiar with).

A bit over a year ago, Australia had the exact thing happen that you mention, Michael, (as you probably all know). Dami Im, who had been a recent winner on X Factor, so was fresh in the public's mind, had a Number One album with her tribute, 'Carpenters Collection'. She also had widespread coverage on national TV, performing different songs on a number of popular programmes. A surprising thing is that at least one of these programmes even played snippets of Carpenters' film clips, leading in to her performance.

Keep in mind that this happened in a country where Carpenters probably have almost never been played on the radio for 35 years or more.

I'm not aware that all this converted to sales of actual Carpenters recordings, but I imagine that it might have, a little bit. In June, someone posted on the 'Charts' thread that 'Gold' was Number 80 on iTunes, for example. (I think there was a massive special on this album at the time, which would have helped). (!).

I'm not aware that any Carpenters songs have been played on the radio, but, then again, I don't listen to the radio anymore.

There hasn't been a Carpenters single released, but this probably gives some context to what you were saying, Michael.

 

[Murray]

A strategy today quite likely does not require a single--though some kind of focal point for a collection like "Deep Cut Heaven" would still seem to be necessary to shape some kind of marketing approach.

So let's shift the discussion a bit, if we can, and see what people think about the idea of a deep cut collection in terms of its potential to find new fans. If people are not buying the original CDs in favor of compilations (does anyone have data to support/refute that?) then a different type of compilation seems to be worth a shot for such a purpose...

Nobody, except for us old-timers, buys CDs anymore. People aren't even buying digital downloads as much as they used to a few years ago. Young people nowadays stream everything to their smartphones - all you can listen to for $10 a month on Spotify, Apple Music, or Google Play, and the Carpenters catalog, including the original studio albums, is on there, just waiting to be discovered. There's absolutely no need for another compilation (unless it contains previously unreleased material), there's so many of them already.

Do you honestly think that Universal is going to put any great effort into marketing a Carpenters product at this point? Make a new video for a 45 year old recording and put it on Youtube? They have much better places to spend their marketing budget, namely to promote their current artists.

What could be done to expose younger people to Carpenters music? If one of their songs were used in the next blockbuster superhero movie, perhaps? Or one of today's hugely popular young stars - say Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, or Adele, would cover a Carpenters song? What if Kylie Jenner would appear on the red carpet, wearing a Carpenters t-shirt? I'm kidding of course...

The best way I can see of ensuring that the Carpenters music and legacy lives on, and that there are new fans to replace us, is that we ensure that the younger people in our lives are exposed to their music.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

You make some very good points, Michael.

I know I'm always mentioning Australia, but I can only join in the discussion from the context of where I live. (Also, I might be able to unearth something new that fans from other parts of the world aren't familiar with).

A bit over a year ago, Australia had the exact thing happen that you mention, Michael, (as you probably all know). Dami Im, who had been a recent winner on X Factor, so was fresh in the public's mind, had a Number One album with her tribute, 'Carpenters Collection'. She also had widespread coverage on national TV, performing different songs on a number of popular programmes. A surprising thing is that at least one of these programmes even played snippets of Carpenters' film clips, leading in to her performance.

Keep in mind that this happened in a country where Carpenters probably have almost never been played on the radio for 35 years or more.

I'm not aware that all this converted to sales of actual Carpenters recordings, but I imagine that it might have, a little bit. In June, someone posted on the 'Charts' thread that 'Gold' was Number 80 on iTunes, for example. (I think there was a massive special on this album at the time, which would have helped). (!).

I'm not aware that any Carpenters songs have been played on the radio, but, then again, I don't listen to the radio anymore.

There hasn't been a Carpenters single released, but this probably gives some context to what you were saying, Michael.

Brian: I appreciate the context. Being unfamiliar with Australia other than on the most superficial level, I don't know how the Carpenters were viewed over there in the 70s and whether there was ever the hostility that there was in the states among the "cool kids". They would have the biggest mountain to climb here in the USA. Donnie and Marie Osmond are infinitely more okay to admit liking than Karen and Richard.

Don: In another thread years ago (I'm one of the guys who's been here for most of the 20), I said that "A Song For You" should have been a single at the time---the logical follow to "Goodbye To Love", which, along with "Superstar", shut down the critics for a brief period in 1971-72. Whether it could make a dent today is another issue. We're in one of those phases of music where slow=sad and nobody wants sad.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Nobody, except for us old-timers, buys CDs anymore. People aren't even buying digital downloads as much as they used to a few years ago. Young people nowadays stream everything to their smartphones - all you can listen to for $10 a month on Spotify, Apple Music, or Google Play, and the Carpenters catalog, including the original studio albums, is on there, just waiting to be discovered. There's absolutely no need for another compilation (unless it contains previously unreleased material), there's so many of them already.

Do you honestly think that Universal is going to put any great effort into marketing a Carpenters product at this point? Make a new video for a 45 year old recording and put it on Youtube? They have much better places to spend their marketing budget, namely to promote their current artists.

What could be done to expose younger people to Carpenters music? If one of their songs were used in the next blockbuster superhero movie, perhaps? Or one of today's hugely popular young stars - say Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, or Adele, would cover a Carpenters song? What if Kylie Jenner would appear on the red carpet, wearing a Carpenters t-shirt? I'm kidding of course...

The best way I can see of ensuring that the Carpenters music and legacy lives on, and that there are new fans to replace us, is that we ensure that the younger people in our lives are exposed to their music.

It's hard to argue against streaming. $10 for one CD or digital download vs. $10 a month for on-demand access to the entire library of currently-available music that I can play on a device that I carry with me 24-7 no matter where I go? Magic.

The upside of this is that it costs very little to make product available. Just unlock the file and tell Spotify, iHeartRadio, Pandora, etc. where to find it. The downside is that the unpromoted music becomes the needle in the haystack. And promotion costs money.

 

[David A]

I think this is more about the potential efficacy of an effort to undo the stereotyping that has plagued the C's since their first big success. [SNIP]

So let's shift the discussion a bit, if we can, and see what people think about the idea of a deep cut collection in terms of its potential to find new fans. If people are not buying the original CDs in favor of compilations (does anyone have data to support/refute that?) then a different type of compilation seems to be worth a shot for such a purpose...[/SNIP]

There are some new, younger fans on this board. Plus, if you watch youtube videos of the C's you'll find a number of young fans in the comments that have "found" the Carpenters and like their music. But...what attracted them to the Carpenters was, seemingly without exception, their classic hits and sound.

Trying to "undo" or "update" the Carpenters reputation or mitigate the stereotyped perception of them seems to me a fruitless and ultimately unnecessary endeavor; they were/are loved for who they were, and while hard-core fans (like us) find gems in their later work and with songs that didn't see the light of day commercially, I doubt that exposing those songs to the public will cause a re-think of who they were and what their musical potential might have been, nor attract a new cadre of fans. I would point out also that even if some new, more critically well-received song by them were to garner some airplay and notice, while that would be great, it would simply lead any new fans right to their catalog of classic hits.

In my view, any Carpenters renaissance outside the hardcore (and mostly aging) fan base would be the result of some form of revisit of their classic songs, say a televised retrospective about their music (not about Karen and Richard's personal lives), with well-respected current and former artists offering appreciation and critical analysis of their work, after having long been under-appreciated by the critical and "music snob" crowd. Or as Murray above stated, a popular artist of today revisiting some their songs (if Taylor Swift covered a classic Carpenters song that was released as a potential hit single it would doubtless stir some notice and discussion).

Their reputation seems embedded in historical stone. I, for one, don't care (now - I did back in the 1970's), and personally feel no need to see them appreciated in a more artistically critical light, at this point. To what end?

 

[Jeff]

Still there's nothing quite like going to the record store to touch and feel that new release. Lest we forget the recycled paper sleeve in A Song For You. The fun with the CarpenterS album...unfolding the portrait nestled within. The flap on HORIZON and the raised logo. The smell of the PASSAGE album fresh out of its new release wrap. Nostalgia yes. While downloads are very convenient they lack the tactile joy of holding an original OFFERING l.p.

 

[GaryAlan]

Well, one thing is certain--as it pertains to the 'youth' market and music,
if Richard Carpenter continues to deny the use of their recordings in movies or television,
only we 'oldsters' will continue to support actually purchasing anything !
I realize, too, that the 'Dark Shadows' and 'Shrek' movies did serve to introduce a younger fan base !
If the only new product is marketed via PBS or QVC (not to berate either)
then the fan base will remain 'older' !

 

[tomswift2002]

Nobody, except for us old-timers, buys CDs anymore. People aren't even buying digital downloads as much as they used to a few years ago. Young people nowadays stream everything to their smartphones - all you can listen to for $10 a month on Spotify, Apple Music, or Google Play, and the Carpenters catalog, including the original studio albums, is on there, just waiting to be discovered. There's absolutely no need for another compilation (unless it contains previously unreleased material), there's so many of them already.

Do you honestly think that Universal is going to put any great effort into marketing a Carpenters product at this point? Make a new video for a 45 year old recording and put it on Youtube? They have much better places to spend their marketing budget, namely to promote their current artists.

What could be done to expose younger people to Carpenters music? If one of their songs were used in the next blockbuster superhero movie, perhaps? Or one of today's hugely popular young stars - say Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, or Adele, would cover a Carpenters song? What if Kylie Jenner would appear on the red carpet, wearing a Carpenters t-shirt? I'm kidding of course...

The best way I can see of ensuring that the Carpenters music and legacy lives on, and that there are new fans to replace us, is that we ensure that the younger people in our lives are exposed to their music.

Streaming seems to be an American thing or a big city thing. I live in a smaller city and I hardly hear of people streaming music. They'll download it or just buy the CD and upload it to their phone (and recently it's been cheaper to just buy the CD's, since you can usually get them for $5 and spend with tax about 30 cents per song vs the 99 cents to download the entire album or $1.29 iTunes charges for just 1 song.)

But I remember a few years ago "Calling Occupants" was featured in "The Wolverine". I don't know about theatrical screenings, but the Blu-Ray has another singer singing it, but online people claim it was the Carpenters version used in that scene of the girl on the train.

 

[ars nova]

since we now have the tune stack for the COLLECTED vinyl, i'd say the discussion is fairly mute, unless there is 50th anniversary collector's release.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Still there's nothing quite like going to the record store to touch and feel that new release. Lest we forget the recycled paper sleeve in A Song For You. The fun with the CarpenterS album...unfolding the portrait nestled within. The flap on HORIZON and the raised logo. The smell of the PASSAGE album fresh out of its new release wrap. Nostalgia yes. While downloads are very convenient they lack the tactile joy of holding an original OFFERING l.p.

As did cassettes, as did CDs. We're three generations downstream from what you describe being a shared experience.

Despite the talk of a vinyl resurgence, it's still very much a limited audience. Cost is a huge factor. The new 180-gram vinyl reissues are often $22-$40 a copy.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Well, one thing is certain--as it pertains to the 'youth' market and music,
if Richard Carpenter continues to deny the use of their recordings in movies or television,
only we 'oldsters' will continue to support actually purchasing anything !
I realize, too, that the 'Dark Shadows' and 'Shrek' movies did serve to introduce a younger fan base !
If the only new product is marketed via PBS or QVC (not to berate either)
then the fan base will remain 'older' !

I'd be stunned if either 'Dark Shadows' or 'Shrek' moved the needle. Especially 'Dark Shadows'.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Streaming seems to be an American thing or a big city thing. I live in a smaller city and I hardly hear of people streaming music. They'll download it or just buy the CD and upload it to their phone (and recently it's been cheaper to just buy the CD's, since you can usually get them for $5 and spend with tax about 30 cents per song vs the 99 cents to download the entire album or $1.29 iTunes charges for just 1 song.)

An American thing....no. Spotify (the largest of the streaming services) is Swedish, and was huge in Europe before offering its service in the U.S.

A big city thing...very possibly, since it relies on broadband internet or high-speed cellular data for smooth, consistent playback. I live in Sacramento (metro population 2.5 million). No problem. But my in-laws live in a rural Northern California town of about 25,000. It's a challenge there.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I found the post I referenced yesterday or the day before, where I suggested how the Carpenters' single releases should have (in my opinion as a music radio programmer at the time) gone. I was in error this week...I never suggested "A Song For You", but went with "This Masquerade" instead. And I think that would have been fine. George Benson would no doubt disagree. Here's what I wrote back in 2012:

Strictly my opinion: Richard should have toughened the image a bit after "Goodbye To Love", where he had a window where even Carpenters detractors had to admit it was a good song, a great performance and that Richard surprised them with Tony Peluso's guitar solos. "Yesterday Once More" and "Only Yesterday" were strong enough to follow. "I Won't Last A Day Without You"...maybe. But "Sing", "Top Of The World", "Please Mr. Postman" all helped convince the less-than-faithful that "Goodbye To Love" was a fluke.

I think I would have followed "Goodbye To Love" with "I Won't Last A Day", skipped "Sing" and "Top Of The World", waited until a few weeks before Now & Then to release "Yesterday Once More" as a single, followed that with "This Masquerade", and then built anticipation by not releasing a single until a month or so before Horizon. Then I would have reversed the order and led with "Only Yesterday". That would have gone a long way toward keeping the image problem in check. They still wouldn't have been the hippest act on the charts by a long shot, but it would have eliminated some of the stigma and allowed Karen and Richard's talents to be more fully appreciated at the time.

It's a lot of ballads, I know, but this would put us right around the time that Barry Manilow came along and made a fortune with them. Assuming different choices in single releases might have meant different choices in material overall, Karen and Richard might have been able to stay in the Top 10 through '76 and '77, if not '78 when even Manilow had to acknowledge disco (Copacabana).


Back to 2017: I could easily see slotting "A Song For You" in between "I Won't Last A Day" and "Yesterday Once More".

 

[Don Malcolm]

Thanks to David and Michael for their more resigned (but doubtless more realistic) assessments of this matter. I am probably following too much in the footsteps of my "namesake" (Don Quixote) here, motivated by a possibly ill-advised desire to right historical wrongs. I think Michael's discussion of how the sequence of singles in '73-'75 could have been altered to mitigate the critical backlash reminds us of just how deep-seated this issue was at the time and, as David notes, there is probably very little chance to overturn the collective weight of all that.

Having said that, it continues to make me sad (and angry) to have to witness the continual "underappreciation" of Karen and Richard, and be exposed to what is (to my mind, at least) a senseless knee-jerk kind of condescension that they still evoke, even in people who ought to know better. I wish there was some way to push back more strongly and effectively against that, even if it means that I am getting too caught up in tilting at windmills!

 

[GaryAlan]

^^^Michael, I should add that my only assessment of the possible impact of the
Shrek or Dark Shadows movies,
as it pertains to the more youthful market becoming Carpenters' conscious,
originates from the reactions of my nieces and nephews (in their teens and twenties),
who all called me to comment on how great it was to hear Top Of The World in those movies.
At least, while those movies were showing (at that time)
the Carpenters were--at a minimum--part of a greater public awareness.
Now, whether, or not, any Carpenters' "product" was sold/moved....
most likely not !

Happily, when Christmas arrives each year,
that public awareness is greatly increased !
(In spite of my reservations for "the Special Edition" !).