Do You Think Richard Should Release A New Single?

Should Richard release a new Carpenters single in North America?


  • Total voters
    29
I'm talking American singles and the American artist image. Obviously, the Carpenters had far less of an image problem in Japan.

Just pointing out that fact. I realize that Japan and its singles were a different animal entirely, but still - Karen and Rich WERE AWARE of the song's popularity in Japan. It had to weigh heavily on the decision to go ahead with it in the States.
 
Just pointing out that fact. I realize that Japan and its singles were a different animal entirely, but still - Karen and Rich WERE AWARE of the song's popularity in Japan. It had to weigh heavily on the decision to go ahead with it in the States.

I know, Harry, and you're right. But it's a great example of not considering all the variables.

The fact of the matter is, that for K&R to have the kind of image and respect universally that folks on this thread think they should have, almost everything should have been re-thought and done differently. Move out of Mom and Dad's house. Be seen in public without each other. Extra points for having a drink in your hand and being at the same table with Carole King or Paul McCartney or better yet, Harry Nilsson. Convince Herb that Jack Daugherty is superfluous before the hits begin. Change every album cover except SINGLES, HORIZON and PASSAGES. Maybe you keep the CARPENTERS tan cover, but change the photo inside.

My suggestion about singles was just working with what exists...no "they record this instead". If you start treating "Top of the World" or "Sing" like sacred cows, you end up right back where you are now.

After my list of 12, I think you can safely release "Please Mr. Postman", and cash in on the mini-boom of oldies remakes in 1975 (James Taylor's "How Sweet It Is", Linda Ronstadt's "Heat Wave" and a few others). But "Top of the World" and "Sing" did way too much damage by being played on the radio every couple of hours for months on end.
 
I know, Harry, and you're right. But it's a great example of not considering all the variables.

Part of the problem is that while there might have been somewhat of an early image problem - the pictures, sprinkling moondust, etc., - they were still at the top of their game before HORIZON. It seemed they could do no wrong, and no-one could see the future at that point. No-one could have conceived that it was all going to fall apart in short order or that Karen would be dead in less than a decade.

So having some fun with a Sesame Street song seemed harmless. Having a happy homegrown hit was a plus.

The counterculture was always against acts like Carpenters, so those criticisms weren't paid attention to. And the bulk of the 70s label people would have been just as happy to dump them in the trash bin with Claudine Longet and Chris Montez and The Sandpipers, so they never cared to fix their image, if they even could.

As always, hindsight is 20/20.
 
Well, the duo did play a countrified Top Of The World at the White House (May 1973),
Richard's remarks before the performance give no indication of more than " an album cut, "
John Bettis states : " We had to wait to release that record until Anderson's died off the charts."
(see Page 122, Little Girl Blue).
In any event, the release of Top Of The World as a Single--or, the decision to release--
does not appear to be an easy exercise in historiography !
 
And, even allowing for "hindsight" or, what have you,
late 1983 saw release of the Single,
Make Believe It's Your First Time....
Now, if anyone at the label had given it some serious consideration--
that is, given "the legacy" of Carpenters some serious thought....
Why on Earth wouldn't
Ordinary Fool
be the chosen song to release as a Single in 1983 ?
 
And, even allowing for "hindsight" or, what have you,
late 1983 saw release of the Single,
Make Believe It's Your First Time....
Now, if anyone at the label had given it some serious consideration--
that is, given "the legacy" of Carpenters some serious thought....
Why on Earth wouldn't
Ordinary Fool
be the chosen song to release as a Single in 1983 ?
Brilliant! I've never considered that.
 
Sorry, but "Ordinary Fool" would never have made it as a single. It's a fabulous recording and a great album track, but it would have never gotten them any airplay as a single. It's so laid-back, it might have fit into a later smoooooth jazz format (it has a saxophone in it !). Not single material - no how.
 
^^To a certain extent, I agree with you , Harry.
The song is laid back--but, surely Make Believe is laid back, also....with a choir, at that...
Be that as it may, WDBO in Orlando played
Ordinary Fool first....before Make Believe....
I remember this as if it were yesterday:
the dj played Ordinary Fool, then said,
the new Carpenters' Album is out today !
I ran out the door and got that album, that moment !
 
Well single or not I'll take my Karen straight up rather than the OK Chorale backing 83s release of Make Believe...
 
Sorry, but "Ordinary Fool" would never have made it as a single. It's a fabulous recording and a great album track, but it would have never gotten them any airplay as a single. It's so laid-back, it might have fit into a later smoooooth jazz format (it has a saxophone in it !). Not single material - no how.

Couldn’t agree more. Every syllable of this is dead on, IMHO.

Further, they couldn’t have followed it with anything. Nothing else on the record sounded like it.

Ed
 
Why on Earth wouldn't
Ordinary Fool
be the chosen song to release as a Single in 1983 ?

It would have died a death. Make Believe at least had a drum section in the choruses, Ordinary Fool was jazz brush strokes all the way. Gorgeous album track but a total sleeper for radio.
 
Little wonder that the selection of Singles proved so vexing, then.

Solitaire
made it to ?#16/17....
I Need To Be In Love, what,? #25,
Make Believe It's Your First Time, what was that,? #101

Either we want a legacy of mature, adult, songs--which may not reach 'hit' status as Singles,
or,
we want pop lightweights--which soar to the top: Sing, Top Of The World, Please Mr. Postman

So, really, Karen and Richard were between the devil and the deep blue sea !

There had to be a reason station WDBO played
Ordinary Fool,

it might be the best off of that Album !

 
Little wonder that the selection of Singles proved so vexing, then.

Solitaire
made it to ?#16/17....
I Need To Be In Love, what,? #25,
Make Believe It's Your First Time, what was that,? #101

Either we want a legacy of mature, adult, songs--which may not reach 'hit' status as Singles,
or,
we want pop lightweights--which soar to the top: Sing, Top Of The World, Please Mr. Postman

So, really, Karen and Richard were between the devil and the deep blue sea !

Remember though that they were only able to achieve success with the lightweight singles during their golden chart era - after 'There's a Kind of Hush', singles like 'Goofus', 'Sweet Sweet Smile' and 'Beechwood' all stiffed commercially.

And the mature singles you note were not without their problems either that compromised their chances of success - 'Solitaire' was just too leaden and downbeat to be a big hit and the latter two were both bogged down by the OK Chorale.
 
I just don't know !
That Solitaire Single is about as great as it gets !
Given all I am reading here--from fans--
how could A Song For You or This Masquerade
be considered as single releases, then ?

More to the point, how does
Make Believe It's Your First Time
qualify as a Single release ?
Talk about your sleeper for radio....
Many also vote for Happy as Single material (even Richard in 1975 !),
so, Sailing On The Tide should be considered !
 
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I have always felt that if the release of SOLITAIRE had been delayed until October instead of August, the attitude and reception of the song might have been different.
 
There's something about "Solitaire" that is just so morose, such a downer. To my ear, anyway, "A Song For You" and "This Masquerade" are not that level of depressing. And...those songs speak directly. I think the metaphor of a card game (especially one our generation tended to consider an "old folks" way of killing time) wasn't a great way to go, either. No one's ever really scored (in this country) by recording that song.

And the Carpenters weren't likely to, either...as neither of them liked it. From Wikipedia, quoting John Tobler's "Complete Guide to the Music of the Carpenters:

The Carpenters recorded "Solitaire" for the 1975 Horizon album; Richard Carpenter, familiar with the song via the versions by Neil Sedaka and Andy Williams, was "not crazy" about the song but felt it would showcase Karen Carpenter's vocal expertise and Richard Carpenter would assess Karen Carpenter's performance on "Solitaire" as "one of [her] greatest" adding "she never liked the song [and]...she never changed her opinion."[1]

As for what comes after HORIZON, if you're looking for chart success (apart from the Adult Contemporary/Easy Listening chart), that gets a lot harder.

Even if the image problem could have been succesfully managed between 1970 and 1975, there is a probable lifespan of hitmaking for most artists. Music changes and tastes change.

Of the artists that had major hits in 1970, who was still doing it in 1976?

Simon and Garfunkel had broken up. Paul Simon managed to do well with "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover", but the other singles from STILL CRAZY AFTER ALL THESE YEARS underperformed.

Diana Ross. For her it took embracing disco early ("Love Hangover") and starring in a movie ("Mahogany").

The Beatles had broken up. Only Paul McCartney could get hits in 1976.

Arguably, Bread. But "Lost Without Your Love" was the only hit after the reunion.

Neil Diamond was already on his way to the "core of dedicated fans" phase. One number 11 hit, a number 43 stiff and a no-show.

Stevie Wonder, absolutely. But 1976 was Stevie's peak year and it cooled off considerably after that.

Chicago, yes. But the hit ("If You Leave Me Now") was a major change in their sound.

James Taylor, yes. But James is one of those artists that just found a sweet spot. And even for James, the hits were over by '83.

Bottom line, even if K&R had no image issues, it would have been against the odds to keep making the upper reaches of the Hot 100 after 1975. It really wouldn't have mattered which song from MADE IN AMERICA was the single.
 
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I voted no. The mojo is gone...The tank is on "E". Richard should concentrate on delivering a QUALITY vinyl 50th anniversary package of the duo's studio albums to his diehard fans.
 
Momentarily channeling a former White House press secretary, "Solitaire" is the best Carpenters' song ever recorded. Period!

Channeling myself, I truly believe the statement above. I know that I am playing the role of a broken record here (sorry, but it's in my DNA), but there are many Carpenters' fans who find "Solitaire" to be the epitome of Karen's vocals. Some dismiss the song as being lethargic, plodding, and morose, but Karen knocks it out of the park. Also, perhaps to make up for the slower tempo of the melody, there's an explosion of instrumentation (guitars et al.), particularly in the single version. I'd say that #17 on the US Pop Chart and #1 on the US Easy Listening Chart constitute a "hit." This song still blows me away at each listen, 40+ years after first hearing it.

Another song being discussed lately is "Ordinary Fool," which some also dismiss as too laid back. Sure, it's a smooth jazzy style, but again, an impeccable reading by Karen. It's debatable whether this song would have made for a hit record.

Getting back to the main topic of this thread, I personally would love it if Richard released a single, chart performance be damned!
 
Momentarily channeling a former White House press secretary, "Solitaire" is the best Carpenters' song ever recorded. Period!

Channeling myself, I truly believe the statement above. I know that I am playing the role of a broken record here (sorry, but it's in my DNA), but there are many Carpenters' fans who find "Solitaire" to be the epitome of Karen's vocals. Some dismiss the song as being lethargic, plodding, and morose, but Karen knocks it out of the park. Also, perhaps to make up for the slower tempo of the melody, there's an explosion of instrumentation (guitars et al.), particularly in the single version. I'd say that #17 on the US Pop Chart and #1 on the US Easy Listening Chart constitute a "hit." This song still blows me away at each listen, 40+ years after first hearing it.

Another song being discussed lately is "Ordinary Fool," which some also dismiss as too laid back. Sure, it's a smooth jazzy style, but again, an impeccable reading by Karen. It's debatable whether this song would have made for a hit record.

Getting back to the main topic of this thread, I personally would love it if Richard released a single, chart performance be damned!
Chart performance be damned! Excellent post James.
 
Momentarily channeling a former White House press secretary, "Solitaire" is the best Carpenters' song ever recorded. Period!

Channeling myself, I truly believe the statement above. I know that I am playing the role of a broken record here (sorry, but it's in my DNA), but there are many Carpenters' fans who find "Solitaire" to be the epitome of Karen's vocals. Some dismiss the song as being lethargic, plodding, and morose, but Karen knocks it out of the park. Also, perhaps to make up for the slower tempo of the melody, there's an explosion of instrumentation (guitars et al.), particularly in the single version. I'd say that #17 on the US Pop Chart and #1 on the US Easy Listening Chart constitute a "hit." This song still blows me away at each listen, 40+ years after first hearing it.

Another song being discussed lately is "Ordinary Fool," which some also dismiss as too laid back. Sure, it's a smooth jazzy style, but again, an impeccable reading by Karen. It's debatable whether this song would have made for a hit record.

Getting back to the main topic of this thread, I personally would love it if Richard released a single, chart performance be damned!

Agree on Solitaire. With that performance, Karen Carpenter established herself as the preeminent female vocalist of the era, if not the century. It was Roger Bannister running a sub-four-minute mile in 1952, it was Bob Beamon destroying the long jump record at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics, it was Secretariat in the 1973 Belmont Stakes. Suddenly, all her contemporaries were on the bottom, looking up! Sorry to go off-topic.
 
I'd say that #17 on the US Pop Chart and #1 on the US Easy Listening Chart constitute a "hit."

Personal enjoyment shouldn't be tied to chart performance, and I'm glad there are people who enjoy "Solitaire". Lord knows, there are enough songs that were #1 that could make me hit the button and tune out and some of my favorite songs didn't even make chart.

But...a quick note about the Billboard Hot 100 (the Easy Listening chart was an entirely different animal and even less reliable):

It helps to remember that the numbers aren't cumulative. They're a snapshot of a single week. So a record that peaks at #17 means that---on its best week---there were 16 other songs doing better. That's more than half the top 30. And that's wholesale (see Goofus re-evaluated for what I wrote about that four years ago).

Coming off a #4 ("Only Yesterday") with a #1 before that ("Please Mr. Postman") with the lowest peak for an A-side since "Ticket To Ride" six years earlier...that's more of a near-miss than a hit.
 
But...a quick note about the Billboard Hot 100 (the Easy Listening chart was an entirely different animal and even less reliable):

Thanks for the tutorial on Billboard, although I'm quite familiar with the Billboard charts ("snapshot" and other characteristics). I'm also aware that statistics can be interpreted in a variety of ways, even sometimes giving opposing views some validity. I stand by my defense of "Solitaire...."
 
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