Drummer on Going Places?

RPC

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Some writings/interviews I've read recently on the subject, suggest that Hal Blaine (the primary drummer in all the previous TJB albums) was the drummer on Going Places. Yet, it is relatively accepted that from "Going Places" onward, Herb was recording (most of the tracks at least) with his touring group, with drummer Nick Ceroli. The style of drumming to me on Going Places sounds more like Nick than Hal. Comments? Info, please?
 

Steve Sidoruk

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According to the AFM session sheets, Hal played on a couple of the first tracks recorded for the album. They both played on one track, but Nick played most of the remaining GOING PLACES tracks.
 

Bobberman

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According to the AFM session sheets, Hal played on a couple of the first tracks recorded for the album. They both played on one track, but Nick played most of the remaining GOING PLACES tracks.
That was what I was thinking too I thought of Going places as a sort of transitioning from the studio players to the core TJB touring group which Worked like a charm and as mentioned many times elsewhere on the forum sometimes Herb used a combination of the touring group and session players to get the exact sound he wanted. And once more to repeat what Herb always said "The Tijuana Brass was More of A Sound Rather than a Group." To me that puts Everything in proper Perspective.
 

Mike Blakesley

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In one of the interviews we've discussed, Herb said he always used "musicians of my choice" because some players were better at certain types of rhythms than others. But, since he had just put together the actual Brass at the time they were recording Going Places, it follows that some tracks may have been in progress or already completed when the great Nick Ceroli was hired.
 

DAN BOLTON

Well-Known Member
In one of the interviews we've discussed, Herb said he always used "musicians of my choice" because some players were better at certain types of rhythms than others. But, since he had just put together the actual Brass at the time they were recording Going Places, it follows that some tracks may have been in progress or already completed when the great Nick Ceroli was hired.

I recently read on another website that will remain nameless that the first recording session that the complete touring group played on was Zorba The Greek.

Didn't Steve Sidoruk make a listing of the personnel involved in the recording of GP?




Dan
 

RPC

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Thread Starter
Thanks so much to all of you for your replies and information. Steve, are those Session Sheets view-able? I would assume that (with Union regs) Session Sheets would have been made on ALL recordings. I would absolutely love to see them!! BTW; which tune did both Hal and Nick play on?

I had the extreme fortune of studying under Nick in 1980 (before his untimely early passing) when I attended the Dick Grove Music Workshops in Studio City. He even invited me to 'sit in' (watching, not playing....ha) on the weekly/Saturday big band rehearsal in Van Nuys with all the top LA players. What a player (and reader...)!! Even helped him schlep his drum kit in from his tiny VW Beetle. Hehe. Nick once related the true story when (during TJB's peak of fame) Buddy Rich invited him to "sit in" with his big band--therewith with the ulterior intent of humiliating Nick (as Buddy was renown to do on and with several occasions/artists). Nick blew down the chart with ease and, according to Nick, they were good friends from that point on. Once Herb/Larry (Levine) started isolating the drums on the "hard left" pan (South of the Border onward; with 3 exceptions on "South" and one exception on "Whipped"), I used to just love (still do) to pan my stereo hard left to marvel and "learn..."
 

Mike Blakesley

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Those sheets appeared in a series of review threads about each album. If you search "Going Places" (thread titles only) you might be able to find them. I'm at work now or I'd take a stab at it.
 

RPC

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Thank you so much, Harry (Steve). Fascinating stuff!! I only detect one drummer on "3rd Man" and I'm pretty sure it's Hal--of course (like the observation in the GP thread about Tonni's trumpet) there's no guarantee that we'd HEAR them both just because they were at the same session.... I also didn't see any credits for "Harpsichord" on "3rd Man" Good chance Herb and Larry overdubbed liberally at later dates...
 

Harry

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To use the search engine for these, type in the title of the album exactly. Select the "titles only" box and hit [search] and you should get a list of every thread that has that album in its title. Look for the one that starts with a prefix of [Classic AOTW] and somewhere in there was where Steve most likely put in his session info.

One other, more focused way, is to click the [Search Forums] tab at the top of an index page. It brings up an advanced search form. Type "Herb" in the Keywords box, select [x]Titles only, and scroll down to Thread Prefixes. Use the scroll bar to find [Classic AOTW] and select it. Then press the big [Search] button at the bottom.

You should then get a list of all [Classic AOTW] threads that have the word "Herb" in the title. AOTW stands for Album Of The Week. It's a feature of the forum ignited by our LPJim, who for the last decade plus has been entering in an Album Of The Week from A&M in numerical order.

What happened though was we switched forum software back in around 2002, and all of the earliest threads we did on the first hundred albums or so were not transferred over to this modern message forum. So I decided that for posterity, I'd go back and do a "Classic AOTW" thread for the great majority of those seminal A&M albums in the first hundred.

Steve Sidoruk participated in those threads with valuable session information that he'd gleaned from hours of research in archives and posted them for all of us. Unfortunately, his pictures were placed in a "Gallery" system that no longer is active, so you won't get to see his pictures of early singles and album variations that he'd posted. All you'll see is an image tag. But the textual info should be there.
 

Mike Blakesley

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I only detect one drummer on "3rd Man" and I'm pretty sure it's Hal
I think it was in the liner notes to the Shout!Factory release of this album that Herb stated he was going for a "wall of sound" feel on 3rd Man Theme and he mentions that there were two drummers to give it that beefed-up sound.
 

Steve Sidoruk

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GOING PLACES Recording Sessions

4/28/65 - MAE - AND THE ANGELS SING - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Hal Blaine - drums, Russell Bridges - piano, Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin, Lyle Ritz - ukulele, bass, tuba, violin; Tommy Tedesco - guitar; and many others - strings.

6/29/65 - I'M GETTING SENTIMENTAL OVER YOU - Chuck Berghofer - bass; Pete Jolly - piano; Nicholas Martinis - drums; Howard Roberts - sax.

7/ 6/65 - THIRD MAN THEME - Herb Alpert - trumpet; Hal Blaine - drums; Nick Ceroli - drums; Bob Edmondson - trombone; Pat Senatore - bass; William Pitman - guitar; Lou Pagani - piano; John Pisano - guitar; Tonni Kalash - trumpet.

8/6/65 - A WALK IN THE BLACK FOREST - WALK, DONT RUN - I'M GETTING SENTIMENTAL OVER YOU - Herb Alpert - trumpet; Julius Wechter - marimba; Nick Ceroli - drums; Pat Senatore - bass; Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin; Lyle Ritz - ukulele, bass, tuba, violin; Bob Edmondson - trombone; John Pisano - guitar; Tonni Kalash - trumpet; Lou Pagani - piano.

8/10/65 - TIJUANA TAXI - MORE AND MORE AMOR -
Herb Alpert - trumpet; Julius Wechter - marimba; Nick Ceroli - drums; Pat Senatore - bass; Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin; Lyle Ritz - ukulele, bass, tuba, violin; Bob Edmondson - trombone; John Pisano - guitar; Tonni Kalash - trumpet; Lou Pagani - piano.

8/13/65 - CINCO DE MAYO - JOHN'S TUNE (FELICIA) - SPANISH FLEA - AND I LOVE HER - Herb Alpert - trumpet; Julius Wechter - marimba; Nick Ceroli - drums; Pat Senatore - bass; Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin; Lyle Ritz - ukulele, bass, tuba, violin; Bob Edmondson - trombone; John Pisano - guitar; Tonni Kalash - trumpet; Lou Pagani - piano.

8/17/65 - ZORBA THE GREEK - Herb Alpert - trumpet; Julius Wechter - marimba; Nick Ceroli - drums; Pat Senatore - bass; Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin; Bob Edmondson - trombone; John Pisano - guitar; Tonni Kalash - trumpet; Lou Pagani - piano.

(From AFM session sheets)
 
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Shane

Member
So does anyone know the date of the first TJB concert? It would be interesting to compare the date of the debut of the "group" to their 7/6/65 debut in the studio.
 

lj

Active Member
Thanks Steve for posting the recording sessions information. Bud Coleman--or some other musician-- is playing a bouzouki stringed instrument on Zorba the Greek. The sound of the bouzouki is quite noticeable as it has a lower pitch than a guitar or mandolin, and can be heard clearly at the beginning of the speedy chorus portion just before the trumpets immediately repeat the same melody. I love that bouzouki sound on what is my favorite of all TJB recordings.
 

Mike Blakesley

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Those session sheets aren't always 100% complete or accurate.....for example, notice every time Lyle Ritz is listed, it shows him playing ukulele, bass, tuba, violin. Maybe it's just my ears but I don't recall hearing any ukeleles or tubas or violins on, say, "A Walk in the Black Forest" so I assume he was playing bass on that track. And there are lots of musicians on "Getting Sentimental" besides those listed. So, it's entirely possible that a bouzouki is in there, just not credited.

Also, it's possible that the sound you hear really is a guitar or mandolin, just slowed down. Remember the liner notes on the back of the Going Places album -- it talks about "studio wizardry" but doesn't say exactly what they did!
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
Those session sheets aren't always 100% complete or accurate... Remember the liner notes on the back of the Going Places album -- it talks about "studio wizardry" but doesn't say exactly what they did!
Very True about ALL Recording Sessions There is always some "Studio Wizardry" involved always has been and always will be.
 

Steve Sidoruk

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The session sheets are how the union (AFM) musicians get paid, so I would expect them to be accurate. In the mix down, a musician's instrument part may be buried or just not used.
 
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