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Favorite 10 Non-Singles

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by Mark-T, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Thank you, Don. Your analysis is fascinating to read. I so appreciate everyone jumping in and sharing. It's one of the reasons this forum is great.
    GaryAlan and Don Malcolm like this.
  2. Tony

    Tony Active Member

    Fun thread. In no particular order:

    1. You
    2. Two Sides
    3. Bwana She No Home
    4. This Masquerade
    5. Let Me Be the One
    6. Ordinary Fool
    7. Sandy
    8. One More Time
    9. And When He Smiles
    10. Crescent Noon
    Don Malcolm likes this.
  3. Murphy

    Murphy New Member

    I try to never criticize anyone's opinion, but it is truly beyond me how someone could choose the dreary-beyond-belief "Crescent Noon".
  4. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

    because it's CarpenterS maybe?
    Tony likes this.
  5. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    Totally agree!
  6. ullalume

    ullalume Well-Known Member

    Let Me Be The One
    A Song For You
    This Masquerade
    When It's Gone
    Two Sides
    You're Enough
    I Can't Make Music
    Don Malcolm and K.C. Jr like this.
  7. Rumbahbah

    Rumbahbah Well-Known Member

    I'd go for:

    All I Can Do
    Baby It's You
    Let Me Be The One
    A Song For You
    Road Ode
    This Masquerade
    Love Me For What I Am
    One More Time
    B'wana She No Home
    Ordinary Fool

    There's definitely a proponderance of melancholy in those choices...
    Don Malcolm likes this.
  8. I actually forgot "Crescent Noon" in my list, but it might likely be there in another iteration. Great record. I feel sorry for those who can't appreciate it.
    CraigGA, Tony and Jeff like this.
  9. GaryAlan

    GaryAlan Well-Known Member

    I had to actually give that song (Crescent Noon) a good listening to, this morning.
    Actually,I listened to the entire Close To You LP.
    And, call me crazy, but I'll take Crescent Noon over Mr. Guder, any day !
    And, a comparison to the song with Solitaire is overwhelming. (as in : plodding, too slow for some...)
    I hardly ever listen to This Masquerade, others love it.
    I love Goofus, others really dislike it.
    So, you never know......
    Tony and Don Malcolm like this.
  10. Mark-T

    Mark-T Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Oh, those low notes in Crescent Noon- just amazing!
  11. Don Malcolm

    Don Malcolm Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the ongoing interest in this topic (kudos again to Mark for starting it!) and for the new lists that have been posted.

    I have processed a few of the new ones and I will wait till early next week to post an update. Anyone who wishes to make an update to their ballot is asked to do so in the next few days, either here in the thread or to me via our "Conversation" function.

    It is always interesting to glimpse some of the details in others' love and appreciation for art and music (here, of course, very specifically in the works of Karen and Richard). We get a little bit more of a sense of what is common ground among us, as well as the edges of each person's individual attraction for the music. It's fascinating to see how quite different perspectives converge and occasionally collide in our discussions...I know that it helps me get a bigger picture than just my own perspective on it, and I hope that others find a similar value in it.

    I have another perspective on "Crescent Noon" that I'd like to try to share here...and preface it by saying that I'm one of its most ardent admirers (and I do understand that the pace of the song risks some of the reactions that we see pop up from time to time: one person's "dreary," however, is another person's "sublime"). I think one of the things that attracts me so much to the Close to You LP is that it contains such an incredible variety of songs, with a foot still in the Carpenters' 60s roots and with a number of compositions that are clearly written from what for lack of a better term I would call "the joy of musical discovery"--ambitious, earnest, possibly a bit overreaching works influenced by some of the various flavors of orchestrated pop that had swirled around in the mid-60s--and that don't have some element of commercial calculation that would eventually permeate much...maybe a bit too much...of what Richard subsequently set his sights for as a producer/arranger with a "track record" to defend.

    And I note that Murphy, who is not a fan of "Crescent Noon," has a very interesting list (one of the most varied of anyone, I think...) which includes one of the songs I'd lump into the above description--"Another Song," that unique and singular suite of many musical styles and sounds. For variety and audacity, "Another Song" has definite appeal and retains its mysterious stitched-together intrigue to this day; "Crescent Noon" captures the sheer expressive power of Karen's vocal talents in an "unabashed" art song, where we can hear her engagement with melancholy in its purest form (and as Mark says, those low notes...). Now, of course, an entire LP of such songs could be very hard to take, I suspect, even for those whose admiration for this type of emotional expression is high--but as a glimpse into the set of moments (as captured in various ways on the Close To You LP...) when Karen became one of the greatest singers ever, and a peek into the unbridled songwriting ambition that Richard and John Bettis brought to their early work, it's a song that reveals much to us about the Carpenters' musical origins.

    Hope these thoughts make sense, and please keep sending in your lists! I live to listen...and to count! :cool:
    CraigGA, Tony and Jamesj75 like this.
  12. John Tkacik

    John Tkacik Active Member

    Picking only 10 is like choosing between "Left Twix" and "Right Twix". My current top 10 in alphabetical order are:

    A Song For You
    I Can Dream, Can't I
    I Can't Make Music
    I Just Fall In Love Again
    I'm Caught Between Goodbye And I Love You
    Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night
    Where Do I Go From Here
    You're The One
  13. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    Great selections. I love how Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night is getting so many votes. :)

    It's such a shame it's never been anthologised, especially given that it's one of their "most ambitious recordings", in Richard's own words.
  14. Tony

    Tony Active Member

    I find it dark and haunting. And as one writer pointed out some years ago, Richard was evidently influenced by Erik Satie's "Gymnopedie No. 3" when he wrote it. If you don't like "Crescent Noon" you almost certainly won't like the contemplative mood of that piece either.
    Must Hear This Album likes this.
  15. First, echoing the "awesome thread" sentiment. I've been missing from the boards for a short time, and it's so great to come back to thought provoking activity! Always seems to be a lot of that around here.

    So, I'll play. My 10 (as of 6:15pm EST on 10/7, anyway):

    1. Love Me For What I Am
    2. Road Ode
    3. Let Me Be The One
    4. Two Sides (which, I guess, was technically a single as the "B" side of "Beechwood", but oh well)
    5. One Love
    6. Where Do I Go From Here?
    7. And When He Smiles
    8. Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night
    9. Maybe It's You
    10. Tryin' To Get The Feeling
    goodjeans likes this.
  16. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    No.10 was also a single but who's counting :)

    Good choices and yet another vote for Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night.
    GATourist likes this.
  17. Don Malcolm

    Don Malcolm Well-Known Member

    Here are the results after 26 lists for “10 Best Non-Singles"...

    —Let Me Be The One (15 mentions, 58%)
    —Road Ode (14, 54%)
    —A Song For You (11, 42%)
    —Two Sides, Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night, Baby It’s You, Bwana She No Home (9, 35%)
    —This Masquerade, Happy, You, You’re The One, All of My Life (8, 31%)
    —One More Time, Ordinary Fool (7, 27%)
    --------------------top 14 tracks for the LP version of CARPENTERS “Deep Cut Heaven”----------------
    —Desperado, I Can’t Make Music, Love Me For What I Am (6, 23%)
    — (A Place to) Hideaway, (Caught Between) Goodbye & I Love You, Eve, Another Song, Crescent Noon, Maybe It’s You (5, 19%)
    —One Love, Where Do I Go From Here, Strength of a Woman (4, 15%)
    --------------------- top 26 tracks for CD/double-LP version of “Deep Cut Heaven”-----------------------
    —All I Can Do, And When He Smiles, At the End of a Song, Crystal Lullaby, I Can Dream Can’t I, Love Is Surrender, Now, Tryin’ To Get the Feeling, When It’s Gone (3)
    —Boat to Sail, Don’t Be Afraid, Help!, I Just Fall in Love Again, I’ll Never Fall in Love Again, Nowadays Clancy Can’t Even Sing, Our Day Will Come, Sandy, Someday (2)
    —Bacharach/David Medley, Can’t Smile Without You, From This Moment On, Goofus, He Came Here For Me, Honolulu City Lights, I Have You, I Heard The Bells on Xmas, I Kept On Loving You, Jambalaya, Little Altar Boy, Look To Your Dreams, Making Love in the Afternoon, Nowhere Man, Rainbow Connections, Reason to Believe, Sailing on the Tide, Somebody’s Been Lyin’, Sometimes, Turn Away, Two Lives, What’s The Use?, You’re Enough, Your Baby Doesn’t Love You Anymore (1)

    Thanks to all who've participated. There are a total of 68 songs on the list--again, a testament to depth of quality in the C's oeuvre.

    The analysis this time is based on the four “time ranges” we looked at as part of the “Top 20” poll a little while back. Here we are looking only at the 26 songs with four votes or more that “made the cut” for the CD/2-LP version of our hypothetic “Deep Cut Heaven” release.

    Each time range—60s, 70-74, 75-79 and 80s—has two lists. The top list in each time range contains the songs in the Top 14 (the single-LP “deluxe” version of “Deep Cut Heaven”). The bottom list contains the 12 songs in the second tier, those in the #15-#26 slots.

    60s 2 (1, 1)
    All of My Life


    70-74 11 (5, 6)
    Let Me Be The One, Road Ode, A Song For You, Baby It’s You, This Masquerade

    I Can’t Make Music, (A Place to) Hideaway, Another Song, Crescent Noon, Maybe It’s You, One Love

    75-79 8 (5, 3)
    Two Sides, Bwana She No Home, Happy, You, One More Time

    Desperado, Love Me For What I Am, (I’m Caught Between) Goodbye & I Love You

    80s 5 (3, 2)
    Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night, You’re the One, Ordinary Fool

    Where Do I Go From Here, Strength of a Woman

    So it is probably not too surprising that 70-74 (also the “greatest hits” time frame) produced the greatest number of “deep cut” favorites as well. The two later time frames (75-79 and the 80s) were quite well represented, however. And as we’d expect, the 60s trails markedly due to the C’s releasing only one LP during that decade.

    I decided to do a “time frame” comparison between this poll and a slice of the “Top 20” poll that featured only the non-single tracks that received mention on those lists. As you can see when you read down the two columns, the shape of this data is very similar:

    Decade, Non-45, Top 20
    1960s, 24 (9%), 22 (11%)
    70-74, 111 (43%), 77 (38%)
    75-79, 71 (27%), 71 (31%)
    1980s, 53 (20%), 43 (21%)

    So even in a poll such as the Top 20, where nearly half of the total votes went to singles (both “A” and “B” sides…), the shape of the support for non-singles is virtually the same as our new poll that focused solely on non-45 tunes. Now that's what I call an internally consistent electorate!

    Finally, here are my draft track order listings for “CARPENTERS Deep Cut Heaven”—first, the 14-cut single LP version…and then the 26 double-LP (or CD) version. I chose to stay as close to chronological order as possible, but made a few adjustments for mood and contrast. Everyone please feel free to post their own ideas for this using these songs. Thanks!

    Top 14 LP (rough chrono)
    A—All of My Life, Baby It’s You, Let Me Be The One, A Song For You, This Masquerade, Road Ode
    B—Happy, You, One More Time, Bwana, Two Sides, You’re the One, Ordinary Fool, Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night

    Top 26 2-LP (rough chrono)
    A—All of My Life, Eve, Maybe It’s You, Baby It’s You, Crescent Noon, Another Song
    B—A Song For You, Let Me Be The One, (A Place to) Hideaway, One Love, This Masquerade, I Can’t Make Music, Road Ode
    C—Happy, You, Desperado, Love Me For What I Am, Caught Between Goodbye & I Love You, One More Time
    D—Bwana She No Home, Two Sides, Ordinary Fool, Where Do I Go From Here, You’re The One, Strength of a Woman, Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night
    natureaker, A&M Retro, Graeme and 7 others like this.
  18. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    ^^Thanks Don, that's amazing work. This would indeed make a great compilation set and with Richard input and liner notes (I think he would enjoy commenting on these album cuts) can you imagine if this materialized and he included a bonus track of a unreleased Carpenters song. I'm sure he has at least 1 or 2 still tucked away somewhere. This could be a very exciting release.
  19. Don is our resident CPA: Carpenters Public Accountant!
  20. Holy crap, Don! That is one incredible analysis!! I got a headache half way through, but I will take some Advil and press on!! :)
    natureaker likes this.
  21. Carpe diem

    Carpe diem Well-Known Member

    Ditto...no particular order;

    1) Road Ode
    2) Crystal Lullaby
    3) Someday
    4) Crescent Noon
    5) Mr Guder
    6) I Just Fall In Love Again
    7) This Masquerade
    8) Maybe It's You
    9) Bacharach Medley
    10) Let Me Be The One
    Must Hear This Album and K.C. Jr like this.
  22. Brian

    Brian Active Member

    'Crescent Noon' would be on my Top 10 of non-singles tracks.

    Seeing as most of my favourite Carpenters tracks weren't singles, I don't think I could do a Top 10. It would probably have to be a Top 50. Or 75.
  23. Brian

    Brian Active Member

    I found that a Top 10 of favourite non-singles tracks couldn't be done. I listed ABOUT 26 (?) of my favourites, (and there are more). I started doing them in order, but couldn't do that, either. The first six are roughly my Top 6. After that, they're pretty much random.

    I'm counting 'Little Altar Boy' and 'Ave Maria' as singles, otherwise they'd definitely be on my Top 10. 'Ave Maria' was on a single in Japan and I think that 'Little Altar Boy' was a promo single. Actually, 'Let Me Be the One' was also a promo CD single and I've included it, so I'm not making much sense.

    Our Day Will Come
    Crescent Noon
    The End of the World
    He Came Here for Me
    I Heard the Bells
    Because We Are in Love
    (Caught Between) Goodbye and I Love You
    Love Me for What I Am
    Baby It's You
    (A Place to) Hideaway
    Maybe It's You
    Road Ode
    This Masquerade
    Let Me Be the One
    Another Song
    Where Do I Go From Here
    You're the One
    One More Time
    Johnny Angel
    Look To Your Dreams
    I Can't Make Music
    And When He Smiles
    Love Is Surrender
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  24. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

    Honolulu City Lights was released as a single in 1986.
  25. Brian

    Brian Active Member

    So it was. That makes it one of my favourite singles.

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