• Two exciting new Carpenters releases are now available. The new book Carpenters: The Musical Legacy can be ordered here. A big thanks to the authors and Richard Carpenter for their tremendous effort in compiling this book! Also, the new solo piano album Richard Carpenter's Piano Songbook is available for ordering here.

**Forum Announcement - PLEASE READ**

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Chris May

Resident ‘Carpenterologist’
Staff member
Moderator
Thread Starter
Hello fellow A&M Cornerites,

I think it's time that we as a collective group revisit some of the unspoken guidelines for our forum. For those of you who have been long-timers, you'll appreciate this and for those of you who are relatively new to the forum here, this will give you some insight into a few things.

First of all, we want everyone to feel like they have the freedom to voice opinions, share insights, and contribute to creating an environment that is contagious to Carpenters fans - whether the usual "lurker" or full-fledged member. With that said, I feel that this forum is beginning to turn into one of the trashier Facebook sites - the ambulance chasing, tabloid-esqe, "he-said she-said", bordering on downright people-bashing discussion groups. I am speaking on behalf of not only myself, but the moderating team here at A&M Corner as well as some other fellow members who have brought this to our attention. This is going to stop.

Back in March, I launched an OFFICIAL REVIEW thread on Karen Carpenter's self-titled solo effort. To date, the thread has generated nearly 800 replies, and over 31,000 views. I'd say we're a passionate bunch here - and that's a great thing - in GENERAL. In addition, there have been side-topic threads, many of which manage to steer their way right back to the solo album - AND a staunch handful of opinions that are once again monopolizing the forum.

We seem to be developing several self-proclaimed A&R representatives, and to my knowledge there is not a single member here that was present during the playback of that album. Furthermore, I'm not aware of anyone here at the forum that personally knew Karen, Richard or any of the personnel associated with the album. Randy Schmidt - whom is a close and dear friend published a book that includes some personal insight into Karen's life - and it's perfectly okay to discuss here. However, we need to remember that even that information - by the time it gets to the discussion threads, is second and third-hand information. So the strong opinions - again, are based on hearsay. I'm not suggesting that any of it is false, true or otherwise. But the forum is getting cluttered with very strong opinions based on second and third-hand information, as some of the posts are even bordering downright Richard-bashing.

Richard Carpenter in years past has teamed up with us to do contest CD giveaways and I've kept him informed of some of the discussions here. As someone who has sat at the Carpenter family table for dinner, I can say with certainty that Richard is strikingly different "off" camera than he is "on" and there is much more information regarding the family that ISN'T in books and interviews. He graciously gave me an interview at a time when he'd vowed that he was done interviewing. I was recently informed that our interview in January of '14 was his last. That could certainly change, but my point here is, whether you agree or disagree with whatever information you've read in a book or watched on television, your assessment is not first-hand and should be communicated as such, or not at all. We're a forum based on the MUSIC first and foremost, INTEGRITY being the second. If you have something you need to say that is less than above reproach with regard to the personal dynamics related to the Carpenters lives, please do so in a private message to somebody and not publicly on our forum.

And lastly, please leave room for others to post. If you're posting 3, 4, 5+ messages PER DAY, you're probably over-communicating here - with all due respect. Guys (and gals), opinions are fine, but in all honesty, re-posting the same information over and over isn't necessary. Let's keep it clean, informative and fun so that people like those in the Carpenters' circle and others WANT to stay involved here. We're better than that. :)

Sincerely,

Chris, Harry and the rest of the Moderating Team
 

Vinylalbumcovers

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
Are we talking about people posting as if they were there and bashing Richard for no reason? Forgive me but the above goes on at length and it's difficult to distill. I mean no snark at all in my questions. Just wanting to clarify.

Ed
 

Chris May

Resident ‘Carpenterologist’
Staff member
Moderator
Thread Starter
Are we talking about people posting as if they were there and bashing Richard for no reason? Forgive me but the above goes on at length and it's difficult to distill. I mean no snark at all in my questions. Just wanting to clarify.

No problem and I'm glad you asked. Basically we're saying let's be respectful and not bash anybody, especially given the fact that none of us were there and have no place speaking as fact, something that is only opinion based on second and third-hand hearsay.
 

Mark-T

Well-Known Member
I'd like to apologize for any comments I have made that could have contributed to this necessary conversation. I am so appreciate of what you guys offer here and all the work you do- and all the people who post here, making it an easy and welcoming place.
 

Vinylalbumcovers

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
No problem and I'm glad you asked. Basically we're saying let's be respectful and not bash anybody, especially given the fact that none of us were there and have no place speaking as fact, something that is only opinion based on second and third-hand hearsay.

Gotcha. I'm much more a "music head" and not one who's very likely to get into personal discussions about people I don't know. Karen's performances feel so personal that we absolutely do know the best parts of her but we don't know all that she was. We don't know the innards of her struggles so we can't really pontificate on them. We also don't know Richard so we can't go there either.

My favorite part of these forums is when we talk about the music. It's the very best part of what happens here. I couldn't care less about dissenting opinions concerning it and I'm glad mine are allowed to flow freely...and they do. I hope I haven't been offensive in any way and, if I have, I extend my sincere apologies.

Ed
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
I want to thank Chris for taking the lead on this. It's something we've been kicking around of late and just needed to be put together in a cohesive way, which he did with his post at the top of this thread. We all like to think of ourselves as friends - the online kind - but friends nonetheless, and it's always difficult to "lay down laws" among those friends. But we felt it necessary to state our case.

We're not trying to stifle discussion, but would just like everyone to at least THINK of what it is you're trying to say. Read it over and think before hitting that [Post Reply] box.

Harry
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
As has been my custom in past discussions, I (again) offer sincere apologies for anything that
may have been misconstrued as 'bashing'.
I must say, after having briefly been blessed with meeting Mr. Richard Carpenter,
it has never been my intention to distill any except the most accurate information available pertaining to
Carpenters and their career.
He remains my musical idol, this, in spite of whatever differences--musically-- I might have expressed.
Regrettably, I realize that I am a 'multi-daily-poster', of the sort referred to by our Moderators.
It has been an awesome pleasure to 'meet' so many insightful Carpenters' cognoscenti.
And, I concur that the need persists to engender discussion from other forum members.
It is no surprise, perhaps, that I fail to denote any "ambulance-chasers" on this forum, but I may
be blind-sighted by my own idol worship.
It has been a rewarding and informative gathering of intelligent people; this is all I have ascertained.
Well, the Music shall live forever, as the beauty created by Richard and Karen Carpenter will persist.
And, also, the multitude of forum members will serve to keep that music alive.
In parting, then, I will simply say Thank You,
for the opportunity to contribute to these discussions.
It has been an Honor.
I shall refrain from writing further postings,
but, will continue ,now and again, to read and to learn.
To quote : "I'm Caught Between Goodbye, And I Love You".
 

Vinylalbumcovers

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
As has been my custom in past discussions, I (again) offer sincere apologies for anything that
may have been misconstrued as 'bashing'.
I must say, after having briefly been blessed with meeting Mr. Richard Carpenter,
it has never been my intention to distill any except the most accurate information available pertaining to
Carpenters and their career.
He remains my musical idol, this, in spite of whatever differences--musically-- I might have expressed.
Regrettably, I realize that I am a 'multi-daily-poster', of the sort referred to by our Moderators.
It has been an awesome pleasure to 'meet' so many insightful Carpenters' cognoscenti.
And, I concur that the need persists to engender discussion from other forum members.
It is no surprise, perhaps, that I fail to denote any "ambulance-chasers" on this forum, but I may
be blind-sighted by my own idol worship.
It has been a rewarding and informative gathering of intelligent people; this is all I have ascertained.
Well, the Music shall live forever, as the beauty created by Richard and Karen Carpenter will persist.
And, also, the multitude of forum members will serve to keep that music alive.
In parting, then, I will simply say Thank You,
for the opportunity to contribute to these discussions.
It has been an Honor.
I shall refrain from writing further postings,
but, will continue ,now and again, to read and to learn.
To quote : "I'm Caught Between Goodbye, And I Love You".

I had a feeling that would happen when the "multi-post" thing was said. I hope you'll reconsider your position, Gary. Your posts are always insightful and the research is great. You add much to the climate here and I hope you'll reconsider your exit from posting. The mods don't mean to stifle anyone, I'm sure, so I hope you'll stick around.

Ed
 

Jamesj75

Well-Known Member
Jamesj75 here: very-long-time lurker, fairly long-time member, occasional poster. This is my second post for the day, so I think I'm not overstepping my bounds here...

Let me first say that I fully appreciate this site as well as the hard work done by the moderators/administrators. I have publicly mentioned this appreciation in previous posts. In that vein, Rudy has been particularly helpful when I've had technical issues. I've been known to thank individual posters, publicly and privately. I've been known to publicly and privately apologize when I was worried I might have inadvertently offended someone. And maybe I go overboard with my "likes," but I truly like so much of what I read here! I genuinely like it when it's obvious a member has gone to a lot of trouble providing information, or constructed a well thought-out opinion, or made me laugh.

I also understand the need to revisit rules for this site, written and otherwise. Yet despite the detailed, thoughtful explanation, it seems that the tone of these reminders borders on turning members away (or restricting them) rather than welcoming them. And I find that a slippery slope. Do we really want to return to the times when days would pass in between individual posts?

I think that the moderators/administrators should be pleased (ecstatic even) that there is so much interest at this site. Is it a matter of the moderator(s) being overworked in having to read every single post? So what if someone makes 5 posts per day? So what if the Karen Carpenter thread has almost 800 replies? I think those are GOOD things! It demonstrates that this site has members who are active and passionate.

Yes, on occasion, it's easy to read between the lines (sometimes just the lines themselves) to see there is friction between members and/or moderators, but that is to be expected here as it is in everyday life. There can be differences of opinion. I don't agree with all the opinions I read here. I don't think people are figuratively chasing ambulances or even pitting Richard against Karen. Some of us may be trying to ascertain some truths only to have a more complete history and understanding of our musical idols. The Karen Carpenter Story was not fully developed in the TV movie or the Coleman biography or the Schmidt book, nor could it ever be.

I don't think this flurry of activity signifies a move toward a "trashier FaceBook site." When you consider that the bulk of the Carpenters' biggest successes came more than 40 years ago and yet there is so much activity, so much interest, so may posts at a fan site, I would think those are welcome signs indeed! For many of us, particularly those old enough to have heard the Carpenters on the radio as hits were being released, the nostalgic factor is pervasive. We should encourage the old and the young, the new poster and the long-time poster, the lurker and the active poster, the once a month and the 5 times a day poster. Let's be welcoming!
 

Vinylalbumcovers

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
I also understand the need to revisit rules for this site, written and otherwise. Yet despite the detailed, thoughtful explanation, it seems that the tone of these reminders borders on turning members away (or restricting them) rather than welcoming them. And I find that a slippery slope. Do we really want to return to the times when days would pass in between individual posts?

The chances of that happening have certainly increased. We have a good thing going here. I, too, sense the whiff of micromanagement here. It was once mentioned that other luminaries (for lack of a better term) that used to post here would be turned off by the overall honesty in these parts. I'm cool with that. If that's the issue, perhaps that should also be said. What I'm not at all cool with is stifling musical discussion. Hopefully that doesn't happen here. If I despise something, I want to be able to say so.

Ed
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
I personally have no objections to multiple postings per day, as long as those posts are not all covering the same information over and over again. When a bunch of videos need to be posted, obviously that requires a number of posts - one for each video. When pictures are posted, there is oftentimes a need to separate them into separate posts. When the really nifty promotional ads from Billboard were posted recently for instance, the frequent postings are quite welcome.

Any discussion of music, how it works, how it affects you personally, how it came into your life, how it makes your cat feel - it's all welcome here. What we've always tried to avoid here is the deeply personal stuff - stuff that we cannot know all there is to know about - and therefore shouldn't be bandied about as if we do.

Harry
 

Chris May

Resident ‘Carpenterologist’
Staff member
Moderator
Thread Starter
The chances of that happening have certainly increased. We have a good thing going here. I, too, sense the whiff of micromanagement here. It was once mentioned that other luminaries (for lack of a better term) that used to post here would be turned off by the overall honesty in these parts. I'm cool with that. If that's the issue, perhaps that should also be said. What I'm not at all cool with is stifling musical discussion. Hopefully that doesn't happen here. If I despise something, I want to be able to say so.

Honestly, not at all! We're actually a pretty lax bunch. We just want our discussions to be respectful and if we have an opinion that we're passionate about, post in moderation and not in a way that forces others to agree - as if our opinion is the only one that counts or matters.

We have a variety of people dynamics, opinions, backgrounds and experience here at this forum. Let's keep it fun, light and healthy for everyone. :)
 
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Vinylalbumcovers

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
Honestly, not at all! We're actually a pretty lax bunch. We just want our discussions to be respectful and if we have an opinion that we're passionate about, post in moderation and not in a way that forces others to agree - as if our opinion is the only one that counts or matters.

We have a variety of people dynamics, opinions, backgrounds and experience here at this forum. Let's keep it fun, light and healthy for everyone. :)

Gotta be honest. A "lax bunch" doesn't make statement like "this is going to stop". Rather than asking that behaviors change, that statement comes off as demanding. Likely not a good idea. You made mention of the "Karen Carpenter" solo thread getting many responses and then other threads going in that direction as well. That's how conversation is. Really. I've never in my life had a conversation be linear. As human beings, we bounce to other things. More than that, we bounce to the things about which we're passionate. Some really wanted that album to come out and many cite that it should have for her benefit. As a result, it dominates their thoughts. It's a natural thing. Hard to know whether or not they're right as we've never met Karen but evidence seems to suggest that it couldn't have hurt. Either way, conversation goes where it goes. That's how things are in real life; that's how things can be on forums such as this as well.

I promise I'm not trying to be the squeaky wheel. It's just that we have a really good thing going on here and I fear you're going to kill it by attempting to over-moderate where conversation naturally goes.

It's possible that "Gary" has been chased away from commenting (the commenting "5 times in a day" was an unfortunate statement that just didn't need to be made; I've already violated that count for sure today). His research is a welcome addition to this place. Is he passionate? Absolutely...and he should be. I don't mind passion.

Again, where we do agree is getting too personal. Personal thoughts about people we don't know comes off as just odd. We've been asked not to "go there" and I can't recall the last time we really did. I guess I'm just confused as to why this thread needs to be. What you seem to want and the way you're going about getting it are a bit at odds.

Am I making any sense.. :)

Ed
 

mr J.

Well-Known Member
No problem and I'm glad you asked. Basically we're saying let's be respectful and not bash anybody, especially given the fact that none of us were there and have no place speaking as fact, something that is only opinion based on second and third-hand hearsay.
This was a long-overdue situation that needed to be addressed,Chris.The tone & subject matter of many threads has degenerated over the past couple of years.

While we're on the topic of being respectful,I've also noticed a recent phenomenon on the Carpenters forum-the widespread use of profanity. This is greatly contributing to the negative aspect of many discussions here-and is something that should be addressed,also.
 

Vinylalbumcovers

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
This was a long-overdue situation that needed to be addressed,Chris.The tone & subject matter of many threads has degenerated over the past couple of years.

While we're on the topic of being respectful,I've also noticed a recent phenomenon on the Carpenters forum-the widespread use of profanity. This is greatly contributing to the negative aspect of many discussions here-and is something that should be addressed,also.

I haven't seen that at all. Honestly. How am I missing these incredibly profane threads? I hate cursing with a passion so I'd like to think I'd notice. Where are they?

Ed
 
I'm new here. I can't believe it took me this long to find it. Ive had a lot of catching up to do. I must say I enjoy reading all of the posts. I have learned so much in the few days that I've been here. I love reading the different opinions, stories, facts, and seeing so many pictures I've never seen before. I just wanted to say thank you. I'm so glad to find a place to come to discuss and learn about my musical idols!
 

MissK

Active Member
This was a long-overdue situation that needed to be addressed,Chris.The tone & subject matter of many threads has degenerated over the past couple of years.

While we're on the topic of being respectful,I've also noticed a recent phenomenon on the Carpenters forum-the widespread use of profanity. This is greatly contributing to the negative aspect of many discussions here-and is something that should be addressed,also.

Widespread use pf profanity? I haven't seen any. Please provide a link/s to these posts.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
I'm pretty certain that mr J. was referring to the frequent quote of Karen as she was talking to Phil Ramone about her album. While no-one actually spelled out the words, it was frequently represented with first-last letters and asterisks. While that kind of usage may not bother some people, it does other people.

Harry
 

MissK

Active Member
I'm pretty certain that mr J. was referring to the frequent quote of Karen as she was talking to Phil Ramone about her album. While no-one actually spelled out the words, it was frequently represented with first-last letters and asterisks. While that kind of usage may not bother some people, it does other people.

Harry
Oh, come on. That's really stretching it, Harry
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Nowhere in Chris' post is there any mention of profanity or that it was a problem here. It was mr J. who brought that subject up and I was merely attempting to interpret his post.

Harry
 

Vinylalbumcovers

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
I'm pretty certain that mr J. was referring to the frequent quote of Karen as she was talking to Phil Ramone about her album. While no-one actually spelled out the words, it was frequently represented with first-last letters and asterisks. While that kind of usage may not bother some people, it does other people.

Harry

Of course this isn't your "beef" (it's "mr j"'s) but Karen said it. The "beef" is with her, not anyone here. If that's really all it is, MissK's right; it's pretty silly.

Ed
 

byline

Well-Known Member
Thank you for this heads-up, Chris, and a chance to reflect and do my own "attitude adjustment" of my posting behavior. I hope I have not contributed to the kind of thing Chris is describing, but sometimes it's hard to view our own postings in an objective way. Which is not wrong, of course; it's very much a part of being human. That makes it difficult to see our own comments the way that others see them.

Having said that, I left a Facebook forum a while back because it really seemed to me to be veering in a Richard "bashing" direction, and that seemed to be supported by those in charge of the page. I just was not comfortable with that. This site was, for me, a breath of fresh air because I feel that many different opinions are supported here. And, unlike that other site, a dissenting view generally does not bring a ton of negativity down on the poster, as long as that opinion is reasonably expressed and not an attack on someone else.

I don't agree with everything I have ever heard or Richard quoted as saying or recorded as doing, but I also know that so much of his and Karen's life was not on the record ... nor should they have been. People in the public eye should be free to have private lives, free even from those of us who have what we believe are the best of intentions in wanting to know more. It's just all too easy to try to rewrite lives within a narrative framework ... meaning that there's a beginning, middle and end that follows some sort of focus or theme. But real life doesn't work that way. So much of it just happens. A lot of it, I think we all wish we could do over again. That's the wasted energy of regret, because we don't get do-overs. About the best we can hope for is to learn and grow from those situations.

I think that's the difficulty with viewing Karen's too-short life; we all want to try to rewrite her tragic ending. And I'm sure if that's the wish of those of us who are simply her fans, then how much stronger must that wish be for those who knew her? But we can't. And I think it's important to try and remember, before we go too deep into our dissection of other people's lives, that even with friends, family, co-workers, etc., whom we think we know, we don't know all there is to know. And that's as it should be. Other people's inner lives are, for the most part, unknown and unknowable to us. The only person we can truly know is ourselves ... and even that gets tricky, as I think we can all attest.
 
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