**Forum Announcement - PLEASE READ**

[newvillefan]

I'm a daily visitor to this forum and have been for many years now. To read things like "this is going to stop" and that this page is descending into a facebook-type page are disappointing to say the least. The forum admins do a remarkable job on this site, steering conversations back on track and creating breakaway threads where it goes off topic. But to say it's becoming a facebook-style page is a gross exaggeration, in my humble opinion. When I read Chris' original post, I predicted a flurry of apologies from people who really shouldn't be apologising. Karen's solo album thread is naturally going to generate the same (or similar) comments and observations over and over again, purely and simply because new members tag along and ask questions that have already been covered in the previous 30-odd pages of that thread. I think that's unavoidable.

Still, a sense check every now and then doesn't do any harm. This is probably the most active, vibrant Carpenters forum online and long may it reign! I'm personally glad I get to interact with so many great Carpenters fans (and people) on a daily basis

 

[song4u]

Well said byline.

This is the only Carpenters forum I read, and not just because it stays largely out of a lot of the negative realm. I also learn a lot from those members who are very knowledgeable about music and recordings, and I enjoy seeing the photos, videos and other memorabilia that are posted here. We also have access to the Carpenters recording resource guide that Harry and others have created and contribute to.

If someone posted something offensive to me I know to report it to the administrators. If it's just a matter of opinions, I can skip that thread. The fact that these forum announcements are so rare shows that as group forums go, this one is pretty respectful. I don't think anyone sets out to be offensive or argumentative, but opinions escalate.

Instead of pointing at others, maybe if we each consider our own posts, as Chris pointed out, we'll be less likely to offend. (Okay, now I sound like June Cleaver)

 

[cam89]

Yes I do enjoy this forum. I love learning about the Carpenters, and all the things about them that fascinate me/us! It's the only forum that I am on, and one that I enjoy immensely!

 

[mr J.]

I haven't seen that at all. Honestly. How am I missing these incredibly profane threads? I hate cursing with a passion so I'd like to think I'd notice. Where are they?

Ed

Widespread use pf profanity? I haven't seen any. Please provide a link/s to these posts.

There's been some usage of profanity on various threads-whether it was actually spelled out,or written in a encoded form(i.e. with asterisks). This is the type of thing that will be glaringly obvious to some-and yet go totally unnoticed by others.

 

[mr J.]

I'm pretty certain that mr J. was referring to the frequent quote of Karen as she was talking to Phil Ramone about her album. While no-one actually spelled out the words, it was frequently represented with first-last letters and asterisks. While that kind of usage may not bother some people, it does other people.

Harry

I actually wasn't referring specifically to that purported comment quoted of Karen.

 

[Harry]

Well that was the first thing that came to mind.

 

[MissK]

There's been some usage of profanity on various threads-whether it was actually spelled out,or written in a encoded form(i.e. with asterisks). This is the type of thing that will be glaringly obvious to some-and yet go totally unnoticed by others.

Now we have gone from "widespread" use to "some" use of profanity. Keep looking. I would like to see, via a link, the "glaringly obvious"
profanity I missed.

 

[song4u]

Timeout please!

Chris said what he had to say as moderator. It's our job as forum posters to, moving forward, be more aware of what we say so as not to offend. Rehashing and complaining isn't going to help is it?

Wouldn't we rather talk about music?

(No, I do not ever want to be a moderator!)

 

[song4u]

Hey GaryAlan: I don't think I'm the only one who misses your enthusiasm and informative posts. Ditto the others who are staying away.

 

[Chris May]

Hey GaryAlan: I don't think I'm the only one who misses your enthusiasm and informative posts. Ditto the others who are staying away.

Yes, and I would agree whole-heartedly! My wife and I recently purchased a new home and have been up to our necks in all the fun stuff that goes along with, not to mention I've been slammed writing string orchestrations for Easter and such, so my available/free time has been sparse. I will say that the extensive research and info that GaryAlan (along with some others) have brought to the forum has certainly been wonderful and I am most definitely not asking anyone to leave! We co-exist here, and even so, as a moderator I just felt that the things I said needed to be - granted extremely detailed, I certainly wasn't looking for a passive-aggressive way to get rid of ANYBODY.

With that said, I think we have one of the greatest discussion groups on Carpenters in all of the world's social media and I'm beyond proud to be involved here as I have been for many, many years.

Happy Monday everybody!!

 

[Jamesj75]

With "pockets full of good intentions..."

To the tune of "Rainy Days and Mondays"

Posting for myself and feelin’ sad
Sometimes I’d like to quit, some are having such a fit
Postings abound, no reasons for any frown
These hurt, hard feelings always get me down

What I see is GaryAlan stepped on some toes
He really did nothing wrong, just stood up for Karen’s songs
Always profound, his input did astound
Now it is a shame he may not be around

Funny, but I don’t see a hint of profanity at all
Just some passion and conviction
Funny, but it seems we should be welcoming to all
Can’t we just avoid this friction
(Avoid this friction)

What I feel is we can all move on
Everyone’s heart’s in the right place
(The right place)
That’s what we should embrace
Posting around
(Posting around)
Moderators and members rebound
A&M Corner where friends can be found

Posting around
(Posting around)
Moderators and members rebound
A&M Corner where friends can be found

 

[song4u]

Wow, didn't know you were a poet!

 

[Harry]

Ah, we have some clever people around here...

 

[mr J.]

Now we have gone from "widespread" use to "some" use of profanity. Keep looking. I would like to see, via a link, the "glaringly obvious"
profanity I missed.

Two threads:Karen Carpenter:The Official Review(various pages: 1-32) and The Karen Carpenter Story-among others.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Well I'm not as frequent a poster as many are; but forum threads definitely are like a conversation. If you write a post with, say, a question in it and you get an answer, then you might have a followup question and get another answer and so on. A thread could easily have 20 posts in a day by just two people carrying on a conversation like this. There is nothing wrong with that. Or, let's just say a thread is going about one album -- first the discussion is on the hit singles, then it moves to the 'album tracks,' then it might take up the production or orchestration or piano playing or whatever. If there are lively participants, a dozen posts in a day by each person isn't out of the realm of possibility. Nobody is trying to limit this kind of useful discussion.

The problem with the "rules" is, it's hard (impossible, actually) to lay down hard, fast rules for discussions on any forum. There are too many variables like my example above. I am sure Chris is NOT trying to limit the number of posts you make in a day. What he's doing is saying, if you already said something, or made a certain point, it might not be necessary to say it again in the same thread.

As for comparing this forum to a Facebook group -- I am really not part of any FB groups so I can't comment on that, but I *am* a part of a couple of Disney fansite forums and I can tell you, the "noise" in some of those forums is such that it drives me away. Too much chatter about menial things that don't add to the conversation. I'm sure the Facebook groups he mentions are the same way.

That's what I've always liked about this forum -- most of the conversation is civil, and the mods tend to put down uncivilized happenings in the rare event they do happen. I seriously doubt that Chris was hoping to drive anyone away with his post -- that's definitely not the intent of the moderators here. Just to keep focused on the music.

 

[Rumbahbah]

I'm starting to wonder whether the 'profanity' Mr J rather evasively refers to is the fact that people have been posting positive comments about the solo album!

Seriously though, I think we'd all aim to do our best to keep the forum running in a way that makes it conducive to all participants, whether long-running or new, whatever their viewpoints on certain subjects. I did feel somewhat uneasy with the tone of the original message. The implication that the board has gone downhill in some way in recent years, and that some posters might be the 'wrong kind of fan' isn't I think very helpful or welcoming to the new members who have joined recently, plus I don't feel it's really the case - the conversations on here have largely stuck to the music (I can't recall there being any discussion of Karen's marriage or anorexia, for instance, as topics in their own right or as part of other discussions other than people commenting on how thin Karen looks in some pictures posted on here). However, the Mods felt it necessary to raise the issue and that is fair enough - it's probably no bad idea for all of us to occasionally take pause and look at how we're interacting on here.

The solo album is always going to be something of a can of worms as there are strong opinions on both sides of the debate, plus there's very little definitive and objective evidence about it that who love or hate it can offer to support their theories (to quote Harry's original message, alas, even the 'official' published narratives about it are very much 'he said/she said'!). However, the sheer number of posts and views of the Karen Carpenter: Official Review thread shows that it is of interest to people. I take the point that posters can make an effort not to let it creep into unrelated posts, although as newvillefan noted, drift occurs in many threads and there is some inevitable overlap between the solo album and other topics, such as Made in America.

Whereas in this board's early days, there were still a number of 'new' things appearing to discuss (like the release of the Essential Collection, As Time Goes By and other compilations), we're unlikely to get any new music now or even much new information (although the recent slew of finds of promo ads and articles from Billboard shows that there's always more already-published material to be discovered). Randy's book was really the last big new contribution of information, which may explain the heightened level of interest shown on here re the solo album in recent years. As such, there is bound to be an element of repetition of topics and some theorising as to why certain decisions were made at particular points in their career (particularly for those, like me, who didn't live through their heyday and are trying to piece together their career trajectory after the fact).

However, this has been (at least for me) an enjoyable forum to participate in. Some of us like almost everything Richard and Karen recorded; some of us prefer certain songs/albums/eras to others. But we're all fans (I don't recall ever having seen any trolls on this board) and I hope there's a place for all of us on here. I see nothing wrong in posters being passionate (I can only think of one message out of the many posted in recent months that struck me as clearly 'rude'), but of course it's important for all of us to realise that our opinion is just that, and isn't necessarily one that should end all discussion.

In the spirit of keeping the discussion on the music, given that the 'Official Reviews' have largely covered all the albums now, I was wondering whether there might be some mileage in doing 'Official Reviews' of each single. Some of these tracks have been discussed as topics in themselves already, but as there are quite a few singles to get through, that might keep us busy for a while!

 

[Harry]

Something to keep in mind is that you may not be able to see some of the most egregious postings that occur here. We DO have trolls, and they are handled as quickly as we can find them and nuke them. And unfortunately there are sometimes posts that need to be dealt with in terms of either "cleaning them up" or just plain deletion. (Deletions are not really deleted, they are removed from public view.) We try to notify post-makers of our actions, but there are times when that is not possible.

What do you think, @Chris May ? Official Reviews of singles? I like the idea - and would like to assemble a complete set of images for the Resource of the US picture sleeves to insert in the song listings.

Harry

 

[Chris May]

What do you think, @Chris May ? Official Reviews of singles? I like the idea - and would like to assemble a complete set of images for the Resource of the US picture sleeves to insert in the song listings.

I love the idea Harry and think it would help keep things fresh and open all kinds of new and insightful discussion!

 

[MissK]

Two threads:Karen Carpenter:The Official Review(various pages: 1-32) and The Karen Carpenter Story-among others.

I don't have time to dig through 32 pages of a thread. Please provide the links

 

[song4u]

I think the administrators here do a good job, especially based on what Harry posted above.

Perhaps that's why you can't find expletives or overly negative posts after the fact MissK - they are cleaned up or eliminated from public view In a timely manner when brought to the attention of the administrators. I hope this won't dissuade you from posting here.

There are some are positive thinkers, some negative, some knowledgeable about different areas, and of course some "plain speakers" here (a reflection of life in general). But by and large people here are respectful and I look forward to reading more posts from newer members and hearing their insight.

Many of us miss GaryAlan's informative posts about the research he's done, and I think we all love it when people post their memorabilia pictures. For me it's a blast from the past. I have found I was in good company as a Jr High nerd who loved Carpenters music.

I might add that I have found new musical favorites based on suggestions from other forum members here!

 

[mr J.]

I don't have time to dig through 32 pages of a thread. Please provide the links

Take a look at Karen Carpenter:The Official Review- pages 3,5,6,8,10,11, & 25. Read those pages carefully.

Also, The Karen Carpenter Story-page 4. One post alone features three expletives.

 

[newvillefan]

Take a look at Karen Carpenter:The Official Review- pages 3,5,6,8,10,11, & 25. Read those pages carefully.

Also, The Karen Carpenter Story-page 4. One post alone features three expletives.

I think we're getting a bit too hung up on rare occasions where there have been expletives that are usually masked with asterisks on one or more letters anyway and are usually quote by the protagonists in the Carpenters' story themselves. The full word isn't ever even posted so what's big deal?

 

[Jeff]

Well hush my nasty mouth! Guess I do talk like a fish wife oh well PTL...

JEFF

 

[A&M Retro]

Due to our ongoing passion for anything Carpenters-related, it's possible that our emotions can get in the way from time to time. That's what passion is all about, after all. I know I've had a few moments....especally when it comes to the solo album....where my emotions have gotten the best of me. It's been very difficult to NOT use expletives....yes, the same ones that our seemingly saintly....and human....K.C. herself even used from time to time. But I refrained from doing so....even when it was most appropriate.

That being said, bring back GaryAlan! We don't want to bite the hand that feeds us, after all. His contributions are greatly appreciated and anticipated. I hope he's back soon!

 

[byline]

I agree with pretty much all of Chris's original post, mainly because it addresses some things that have concerned me, due to my own preferences with regard to posting. But I admit that when I read this:

If you're posting 3, 4, 5+ messages PER DAY, you're probably over-communicating here - with all due respect.

I had a feeling that would come across to some like a direct criticism, one to be taken personally ... and it appears that has indeed been the case. Can't unring that bell now.