Gordon Lightfoot (and a little Carpenters)*

[Geographer]

So I just finished the authorized biography of Gordon Lightfoot by Nicholas Jennings. Although there is no mention of Carpenters in the book, there are some interesting observations of the years (early to late 70's) both acts were in their prime. A couple things stood out to me, especially if applied to Carpenters at the same time:

1. Mr. Lightfoot's record label seem to be okay with his records reaching only the top 30 or top 40 on Billboard. In fact, sales of one album was considered a huge success selling only 470,000 copies. In comparison, these numbers are considered abysmal for Carpenters. One album, mid-career, only reached 98 on the Billboard charts. It was considered disappointing, but not career ending by any means (he later scored big with Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald and the album Summertime Dream that song came from).

2. Mr. Lightfoot routinely only performed in the order of 70 or so shows/dates a year. Some years as low as 50 shows/dates and, in a good year, around 90 shows/dates. Carpenters were performing in excess of 200 shows/dates a year around the same time. Again, the record company, at least as outlined in the biography, didn't think this an issue.

3. Mr. Lightfoot once, briefly, signed Jerry Weintraub to manage him in the mid-seventies. Mr. Lightfoot immediately regretted it and got out of the contract right-away. What if Karen and Richard did the same? No hokey TV specials?

My point is, compared to Mr. Lightfoot and their contemporaries at the time, Carpenters were held to an unusual and impossible standard. Perhaps it is okay that Passage or MIA didn't sell a million copies and still be considered a success; or that a few songs only reached the top 40 or 30 on Billboard rather than having to crack the top 5. Perhaps it was fine to only tour 100 dates out of the year instead of 200. Maybe, if this was the attitude of A&M, things may have turned out better in the long run for both Richard and especially Karen.

 

[Harry]

I met Gordon Lightfoot back in 1978. He came into our radio station and in our chat, he confided in me that his record label, Warner/Reprise, wanted him to make records more like Kenny Rogers, who'd had a lot of success at the time. He seemed unhappy about that, as he felt that he was his own man with his own style and didn't want to be copying anyone.

Here's a picture of me & Gordo. I had a lot more color in both my hair and mustache, but then this was 40 years ago.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

My point is, compared to Mr. Lightfoot and their contemporaries at the time, Carpenters were held to an unusual and impossible standard. Perhaps it is okay that Passage or MIA didn't sell a million copies and still be considered a success; or that a few songs only reached the top 40 or 30 on Billboard rather than having to crack the top 5. Perhaps it was fine to only tour 100 dates out of the year instead of 200. Maybe, if this was the attitude of A&M, things may have turned out better in the long run for both Richard and especially Karen.

While I have always maintained that the concert schedule for K&R was insane, the chart performance was what it took to stay relevant as hitmakers.

Gordon wasn't really a peer of theirs...he falls more into the second tier of singer-songwriter (below James Taylor, Paul Simon and Bob Dylan) who sold at a certain level and once in a while would get some airplay and a surprise hit.

I'd put Lightfoot more in the company of Paul Williams when it comes to record sales expectations---though he clearly did better than Paul---four top 10 singles, two top 10 albums, which puts him on a par with Van Morrison.

 

[Geographer]

I met Gordon Lightfoot back in 1978. He came into our radio station and in our chat, he confided in me that his record label, Warner/Reprise, wanted him to make records more like Kenny Rogers, who'd had a lot of success at the time. He seemed unhappy about that, as he felt that he was his own man with his own style and didn't want to be copying anyone.

Here's a picture of me & Gordo. I had a lot more color in both my hair and mustache, but then this was 40 years ago.

That was mentioned in the book...that they wanted him to be more like Kenny Rogers. In fact, the entire theme of the book seemed to be Gordon Lightfoot's need to control his own destiny and stay true to himself. Jerry Weintraub was suppose to do that for him...bring him to the "next level"...like he did for John Denver, apparently. I guess, in the long run, it worked out for him. He's a national treasure in Canada.

 

[Geographer]

While I have always maintained that the concert schedule for K&R was insane, the chart performance was what it took to stay relevant as hitmakers.

Gordon wasn't really a peer of theirs...he falls more into the second tier of singer-songwriter (below James Taylor, Paul Simon and Bob Dylan) who sold at a certain level and once in a while would get some airplay and a surprise hit.

I'd put Lightfoot more in the company of Paul Williams when it comes to record sales expectations---though he clearly did better than Paul---four top 10 singles, two top 10 albums, which puts him on a par with Van Morrison.

By "contemporaries" I meant that both acts were at the pinnacle of their respected careers...both were successful musical artists on the radio at the same time. Gord sold 10 million albums to Carpenters' 100 million albums? I was musing that if Carpenters sold only 10 million albums, in a rational world, they would still be considered successful. Rhetorically, was the 90 million more album sales worth what ultimately happened?

 

[Michael Hagerty]

By "contemporaries" I meant that both acts were at the pinnacle of their respected careers...both were successful musical artists on the radio at the same time. Gord sold 10 million albums to Carpenters' 100 million albums? I was musing that if Carpenters sold only 10 million albums, in a rational world, they would still be considered successful. Rhetorically, was the 90 million more album sales worth what ultimately happened?

Clearly not. Nothing was.

That said, though, despite Herb's desire to create a label where artists felt at home, K&R were taking fire from A&M staffers who wanted them gone from day one because of their image. Performing at a lower level than they did in terms of sales might have cost them their A&M deal.

Lightfoot benefitted from Warners' philosophy that, as long as they had the Doobie Brothers, James Taylor (until '77) and Fleetwood Mac, they could afford the Gordon Lightfoots, Van Morrisons and Randy Newmans. And, God bless 'em, Warners rolled with those artists for the long haul.

 

[CraigGA]

He is a very prolific writer. Song For A Winter’s Night is one of my favorites. If you don’t like him, start from those who covered his songs, and then relisten to his. I love Gord’s Gold CD.

This is Sarah McLachlan. Exquisite!

 

[AM Matt]

Anne Murray covered Lightfoot's "Cotton Jenny" in 1972!! Matt Clark Sanford, MI

 

[AM Matt]

Lightfoot's "Cotton Jenny" is from 1971 "Summer Side Of Life". Matt Clark Sanford, MI

 

[Mark-T]

Love his Carefree Highway.

 

[Bobberman]

I've Enjoyed Gordon Lightfoot's music since hearing Sundown on the radio and later on my sister playing her cassette tape versions of that plus other hits of the time my brother had a Bootleg 8 track tape of Summertime Dream notoriously titled " The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald ( after the hit from Summertime Dream) its kind of sad that his music along with many others got Bootlegged over the years. But thankfully I was on to that early on and I still enjoy Gord's classics even more today

 

[Harry]

I've always liked Gordon Lightfoot from the moment I heard "If You Could Read My Mind". It was after meeting the lady who'd become my wife that I explored his earlier material, and that's one of the weaknesses of GORD'S GOLD. All of the earlier stuff that belonged to United Artists at the time was re-recorded by Gordon so as to be included on the big compilations. But you know how we purists are, one we hear and like a recording, it becomes definitive and nothing else will do.

Gordon's SONGBOOK box set was a good career-spanning set with most of his hits, all in their original form. And there are other, smaller comps out there that will do the same thing. If you like GORD'S GOLD, just be aware that the early stuff is not original.

 

[Jamesj75]

Also a huge fan of Gordon Lightfoot. I enjoyed monster hits, "Sundown" and "Wreck...," as well as 1980s singles, "Baby Step Back" and "Anything for Love."

My favorite? "The Circle Is Small (I Can See It in Your Eyes)" from 1977.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Count me among the fans. Pretty much everything everyone mentioned above...with this as my all-time favorite:

 

[Toolman]

he confided in me that his record label, Warner/Reprise, wanted him to make records more like Kenny Rogers, who'd had a lot of success at the time

"East of Midnight" from 1986 was more in the pop vein (included the single "Anything for Love", produced by David Foster; the rest of it was produced by Lightfoot). He was another of my favorites from the '70s. I remember being amazed that "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" was such a big hit -- I liked it, but it didn't scream Top 40.

 

[Harry]

My favorite? "The Circle Is Small (I Can See It in Your Eyes)" from 1977.

I love that track and "Endless Wire" from that same album. Both are songs that scream "Play Loud" to me.

 

[Harry]

"Beautiful" is a favorite from his mid-period. From the early days, I love "Pussywillow, Cat Tails".

 

[Geographer]

Also a huge fan of Gordon Lightfoot. I enjoyed monster hits, "Sundown" and "Wreck...," as well as 1980s singles, "Baby Step Back" and "Anything for Love."

My favorite? "The Circle Is Small (I Can See It in Your Eyes)" from 1977.

I've always liked Gordon Lightfoot from the moment I heard "If You Could Read My Mind". It was after meeting the lady who'd become my wife that I explored his earlier material, and that's one of the weaknesses of GORD'S GOLD. All of the earlier stuff that belonged to United Artists at the time was re-recorded by Gordon so as to be included on the big compilations. But you know how we purists are, one we hear and like a recording, it becomes definitive and nothing else will do.


Gordon's SONGBOOK box set was a good career-spanning set with most of his hits, all in their original form. And there are other, smaller comps out there that will do the same thing. If you like GORD'S GOLD, just be aware that the early stuff is not original.

"Baby Step Back" is one of my favorites and should have been a bigger hit for him. I liked the album East of Midnight. Apparently, "Anything for Love," which I quite enjoy, was a song he was talked into doing and later regretted as he didn't have full control (again, from the bio).

I wondered about Gord's Gold, too, in this regard. According to the biography, UA was capitalizing on his new-found fame after the success of "Sundown," re-issuing all his old stuff. When Gord found out, he had his team buy up as many of the UA "new" releases as they could find and smash them with a hatchet. It was less about the money and more about these recording competing with his latest work. I'm sure that was quite expensive. When it happened again, he decided to re-record many of those older UA tunes in one package to take the sales away from UA.​

SONGBOOK is fantastic! Even some really good formerly "unreleased" tracks on it (16 of them, I think).

My favorite? "The Circle Is Small (I Can See It in Your Eyes)" from 1977.[/QUOTE]

Another favorite of mine! Both the original AND the 1977 remake!

 

[Geographer]

I love that track and "Endless Wire" from that same album. Both are songs that scream "Play Loud" to me.

Love, love, LOVE "Endless Wire." I was just listening to that CD in my truck for three months straight (it got stuck in my CD play and I had to have the dealership extract it for me). It was a malfunction I didn't mind.

 

[Geographer]

Count me among the fans. Pretty much everything everyone mentioned above...with this as my all-time favorite:

One of those aforementioned songs that reached the top 30 but was considered wildly successful.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

One of those aforementioned songs that reached the top 30 but was considered wildly successful.

In Canada, perhaps. Here in the U.S., it peaked at #58, which is pretty grim and was just barely a turntable hit at mostly MOR and Adult Contemporary stations, with only a few weeks of play. The exception that I can think of was KFMB-AM in San Diego, which kept it in its gold category through the 1970s.

Being focused on Top 40 at the time, it blew past me on release in 1972 (none of the California Top 40 stations I listened to played it), but I heard it as a golden on KFMB in 1975 and put it in the library of the stations I programmed after that.

 

[Murray]

I'm also a fan of Gordon Lightfoot. Growing up in Canada in the '60s and '70s, his music was pretty much everywhere. Some favorites of mine are "Ribbon of Darkness", "Rainy Day People", "Beautiful", and "If You Could Read My Mind".

Fun fact: I live less than 2 miles from the Canadian Pacific Railway mainline, the building of which Gord immortalized in his epic "Canadian Railroad Trilogy".

 

[CraigGA]

I'm going to have to listen to some Gordon right now. But first, I have You, on my mind from the Carpenters!

 

[Eyewire]

I'm a fan of Gordon Lightfoot as well. A friend of mine went to school with his son. I love both his '68 and '78 versions of The Circle Is Small (despite the slight change in lyrics) and I also love Rainy Day People because it's about people who stick with you no matter what (unlike fair weather friends).

SCTV did a funny skit about him many years ago:



That's Dave Thomas as the announcer and Rick Moranis as Lightfoot. Even though I find it hilarious, it doesn't change how I feel about Gordon Lightfoot: He's a real musical treasure, and not just for us Canadians.

 

[Murray]

SCTV did a funny skit about him many years ago:



That's Dave Thomas as the announcer and Rick Moranis as Lightfoot. Even though I find it hilarious, it doesn't change how I feel about Gordon Lightfoot: He's a real musical treasure, and not just for us Canadians.

Probably every Canadian of a certain age would get the joke behind that skit. No, Gordon Lightfoot didn't sing every song ever written, it just seemed that way! In the early '70s, the Canadian government imposed regulations on radio stations, mandating that 1 out of every 3 songs they played had to be Canadian. The problem was, at the time there just weren't that many Canadian recording artists. The ones we did have, like Gordon Lightfoot, Anne Murray, Joni Mitchell, and The Guess Who, got an awful lot of airplay. At any time of the day, chances were that you could find a Gordon Lightfoot song playing on at least one local station.

Before reading this thread, I had no idea that Gordon had so many fans in the US!