HAP Reissues vs Shout! Reissues

Discussion in 'The Beat of The Brass: Herb Alpert/Tijuana Brass' started by Ricardo Motos Jr., Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Ricardo Motos Jr.

    Ricardo Motos Jr. New Member Thread Starter

    I only found one thread comparing "South of the Border" from HAP and Shout! Are there more threads in the past comparing the sound quality of each individual album between the two reissues? I tried searching but only found one on "South of the Border." If not available, please provide your comparison.

    Ricardo Jr.
  2. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    For the most part, there is little difference between the Shout and HAP remasters. Some think the newer remasters are slightly warmer sounding.
    Bobberman and Ricardo Motos Jr. like this.
  3. Ricardo Motos Jr.

    Ricardo Motos Jr. New Member Thread Starter

    What about the new HAP vinyl reissues, do they sound better than the original pressings?
  4. Ricardo Motos Jr.

    Ricardo Motos Jr. New Member Thread Starter

    I have also read elsewhere that the improvements are more noticeable in the albums "South of the Border," "Whipped Cream & Other Delights," "SRO" and "The Christmas Album." Is that true?
  5. AM Matt

    AM Matt Well-Known Member

    The CD of "S.R.O." (HAP) sounds better than the Shout! Factory CD version!! Matt Clark Sanford, MI
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  6. Ricardo Motos Jr.

    Ricardo Motos Jr. New Member Thread Starter

    Thanks! It seems to me that it's worth to buy it again. I'm just not happy with the sound quality of the "SRO" reissued by Shout! Factory. It's not bad at all but it sounds anemic compared to the Shout! Factory reissues of "South of the Border," "Whipped Cream & Other Delights," "!Going Places!," and "What Now My Love."
  7. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    The HA Presents versions are more true to the originals--the goal there was to reproduce how these sounded back when originally released, including reproducing the cover art as well as could be expected. (The original art no longer exists, so they had to reproduce an existing album cover.)

    The mastering on the Shout!Factory versions is...questionable. SRO does indeed sound awful on the S!F CD, probably the worst of the series. South Of The Border also is somewhat strange compared to the original LP album. I know there was some brickwall limiting on the first couple of S!F titles also.

    The new vinyl is very good--while Bernie Grundman did master all of these new for 180g, keep in mind that the tapes are now 50 years old and can never sound as good as when they were freshly recorded. Given the poor condition of used vinyl from the 60s, I would rather buy a 180g record new, as opposed to buying half a dozen or more old copies and hoping to get one playable copy.
  8. Bobberman

    Bobberman Well-Known Member

    I would concur with everbody here i will say though its very nice to have these different digital versions that are currently availible to my ears given all circumstances they all sound as best as they can be and i dont think they can make the old masters sound any more better than they do now that is why i got them all now rather than later. As always experiences will vary
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  9. Ricardo Motos Jr.

    Ricardo Motos Jr. New Member Thread Starter

    Thank you Rudy for your response. I noticed there's a reduction in fidelity to the sound quality of the Shout! Factory "SRO" compared to the Shout! Factory reissues of "South of the Border," "Whipped Cream & Other Delights," "!Going Places!" and "What Now My Love." The Shout! Factory reissue of "Sound Like" has a similar quality to the Shout! Factory "SRO." Regarding the Shout! Factory "South of the Border," I like its bass but sometimes its overwhelming. As you have mentioned it's not how the original vinyl sounds. I also have a stereo vinyl copy of "South of the Border" and you are correct on your assessment. Based on your observation and others' assessments on the sound quality of the Shout! Factory reissues which are not bad at all, buying the HAP reissues and keeping the Shout! Factory reissues are wonderful notions specially for a music lover like me who love the Tijuana Brass music. By the way, I already have HAP CD's of "Volume 2," "Warm," and "Coney Island."
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  10. Bobberman

    Bobberman Well-Known Member

    And I almost Forgot to mention " Welcome to The forum Ricardo"!
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  11. Ricardo Motos Jr.

    Ricardo Motos Jr. New Member Thread Starter

    Thank you Bob!
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  12. Harry

    Harry Charter A&M Corner Member Moderator

    One strike against most versions of S.R.O. is the sound on the opening track, "Our Day Will Come." The first 45 seconds or so have a very distorted sound, particularly if you listen closely with headphones. It sounds like a mangled tape cassette after being eaten by a car player. I don't know what happened to the master track of that tape, but it's been bad for many years.

    I first noticed it when listening closely to my old Japanese DY32 CD of S.R.O. In making a digital dub, I thought there was something wrong with my connections or CD recorder. In all the years I'd owned that CD, I must have never listened that closely to it. The distortion just seems to go by unnoticed if you're not paying attention to it.

    I even went back to listen to the track on my ancient, early-purchase LP, and sure enough, the distortion was there too. Harder to hear amongst whatever vinyl anomalies were present, but there nonetheless.

    Next came the Shout Factory release. The track was louder, but so was the distortion - it was even worse here. And there was something else annoying. The sound of the two stereo channels seemed very isolated from one another, making for an uncomfortable listen with headphones. The heavy left bass wasn't present at all in the right channel.

    Somehow Randy worked a bit of magic on the track for the HAP version. To be sure, the distortion is still there, but it's a much more comfortable listen.

    And awhile back on eBay I spotted a goofy-looking cover for a German version of S.R.O., titled BRANDNEW. It had an addition of a scantily-clad lady climbing a pole and was on the HörZu label.
    SRO HorZu300.jpg
    I ordered it just for the odd cover, but what I discovered was a completely-clean sounding version of "Our Day Will Come". There was no mangled-tape distortion present at all. The only problem with the album was a rather thin-sounding mastering. This told me that perhaps other territories were sent copies of the master tape before it had gotten mangled here in the States, so for the best sounding version of the track, maybe try other LP imports from elsewhere - Japan, the UK, perhaps. I also found that the mono single of "Our Day Will Come" has no distortion present.

    But through it all, I concur that as a CD, the Herb Alpert Presents probably is the best-sounding version to date.
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  13. Ricardo Motos Jr.

    Ricardo Motos Jr. New Member Thread Starter

    Thank you Harry for the information on the different pressings of "S.R.O." comparing the track "Our Day Will Come" and also for confirming the HAP reissues as the best sounding Herb Alpert/Tijuana Brass CD's to date. I am convinced and will buy the albums I already have on Shout! Factory label. By the way, the HorZu label is known for good sounding vinyl pressings. Tonight I'll play my vinyl copy of S.R.O and compare the track "Our Day Will Come" to the Shout! Factory CD counterpart.
    norderney and Bobberman like this.
  14. The best sources I can remember hearing of all the TJB albums, actually, were the 7 1/2 inches per second (speed), quarter-inch, reel to reel tapes my father had bought in the late-1960s.
    They weren't taken from the copies RIAA-eq'd to create the record lacquers from; so, the bass and dynamics always seemed -to me- fuller and more "taught". However, there were two different batches of tapes issued: the first-run releases; from 1964-1968, made by a company called Ampex...then, later: by A&M itself (or a duplicator bin A&M had contracted named "Magtec"). THOSE were some of the best-sounding commercially-recorded tapes ever made. The (earlier) Ampex tapes (identified by a clear reel and a yellow label) were uneven in their quality control (ex:."Vol. 2", "S.O.T.B.", and "Whipped Cream" sound great; while the others through "Beat Of" sound muddy and dull). Not a problem, though, with the re-released tapes after 1968 done by a different manufacturer.
  15. KentTeffeteller

    KentTeffeteller Active Member

    That said, I own pristine A&M original and West German DGG vinyl of these LP discs. And they are as flawless as anyone can hand pick.
    Rudy likes this.
  16. Bobberman

    Bobberman Well-Known Member

    In my opinion all versions sound good in their own way ( at least in my ears) some are better than others and as I mentioned elsewhere I for one am still Grateful for Everything that has been released on CD And Downloads. Tons of Good listening to be had for years to come

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