THIS IS A VERY SENTIMENTAL FAVORITE OF MINE.MY MOM PICKED THIS UP FOR ME WHEN I WAS HOME SICK FROM SCHOOL.WAS I A HAPPY CAMPER!.AS A YOUNG TRUMPET STUDENT(Still AT IT!),HERB AND THE BRASS WERE AN IMPORTANT INFLUENCE.LOOKING BACK AT THE ALBUM NOW AS A PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN ,I STILL LOVE IT-BUT NOW CAN OFFER SOME VALID CRITIQUES.THE ALBUM REALLY HAS ONLY 9 TUNES(Las Mananitas was from an earlier single,and sounds so different!).AS NICE AS THE SHORTY ROGERS VOCAL INTROS ARE,THEY CUT INTO AN ALREADY SHORT ALBUM.HERB ALSO SEEMS TO BE COASTING HERE-HE SINGS 2 CUTS and TURNS "Let it Snow"OVER TO BOB EDMONDSEN.(Yes,I think that's Paul Desmond too!).BUT IT"S STILL A FUN ALBUM AND HERB PLAYS "JESU"WITH MUCH FEELING AND TECHNIQUE .I STILL LOVE THE ALBUM,BUT SEE WHY HERB WAS NEARING HIS TIME FOR A SABBATICAL.YOURS MUSICALLY,DAVE.
HERB ALPERT & THE TJB CHRISTMAS ALBUM: Comments + poll
- Thread starter Mike Blakesley
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JOv2
Well-Known Member
Given my stocking still has more room for a few more lumps of coal, I figured I’d deck the halls with a little “Bah, humbug!” action! Nothing personal, you understand; I’m just part of a select group of cornerites, holding Christmas Album in fairly low regard relative to the ‘60s TjB catalogue remainder…and I figured I’d flex a little 1st amendment muscle while we still enjoy this American “privilege”, umm...er, I mean, “right”.
In particular, that HA chose to issue a Christmas LP rather than an LP of new material suggests the TjB were crossing the threshold from "pacesetting artists" to "entertainers" – and if I was a TjB member, I’d be checking my bank account at this point: given that HA issued three consecutive vocal single A-sides (credited to Herb Alpert only)…subsequently followed by a Christmas album; certainly none of these projects would necessarily require TjB-band participation.
Concerning the reissue, probably the best gift from Santa was Gene Sculatti’s CD liner notes thereby protecting 75,000,000 fans from “The Best of Josh Kuhn Cut ‘N Paste Essays - Vol 9" (no doubt telling us – yet again – that Herb never thought of the TjB as Latin…).
As Christmas LPs go, the album is average. Personally, however, it’s an LP just the same – and as a TjB LP, it’s easily their weakest. To float my boat, the only really memorable Christmas recordings are either original material offerings (Vince Guaraldi/A Charlie Brown Christmas), or a re-invention of standards (John Coltrane/My Favourite Things) – such that the music can be satisfying year ‘round. Such was not the case with Christmas Album. Although the one original, a Bacharach tune, is a standout – as is the reading of Let It Snow…; and both of these are fine for perennial listening.
Stylistically, CA fits closer to Herb Alpert’s Ninth than to The Beat of the Brass in its embrace of spartan arrangements. The vocal chorus is excellent, and as much as I find the introductory passages satisfying – the overall quality of which easily outshines the TjB performance – most of the within-song arrangements are standard issue. The peaceful ephemeral vocal chorus juxtaposed against the jovial TjB gives most songs an up-down | up-down | up-down jerkiness that becomes predictable after only a few numbers. The TjB’s hum-drum performance indicates the project was not very motivational. (To be fair, it’d be difficult to get motivated about arranging and recording a bunch of Christmas songs during a July/LA summer…then again, December in LA isn’t much different: sunny & warm with nary a snowflake in sight.)
Winter. Since many of these songs were recorded as doughnuts (“holes” to be filled later by Shorty), it’s interesting to listen for the obvious spaces. That burst of 12 Days of Christmas is so damn campy…but given a house party filled with intoxicated, overweight relatives it’s doubtful anyone playing Christmas Album (or any "Christmas Album" for that matter) would be expected to just sit and critically listen to the music (except an 8-year-old James! Yup, I learned to loath Christmas LPs at an early age).
Jingle Bells. I like the arranged choral melody. Nice Latin take of the song.
Favorite Things. This has gotta be one of the stranger TjB arrangements. That intense repetitive minor thing fueled by Nick’s 2/4 polka beat against some chilling vocal voicings makes for a bizarre-o mix. The sloth-like break piano is peculiar, too. The coda fade on a Minor / Minor-Augmented / Min6 thing is plain creepy sounding. I like it. It’s unusual – cool, too that it was a 45.
Christmas Song. I’ll just say it just once: HA is not a good singer. There. This Guy was a unique mix of content and styling resulting in an exclusive, singular performance; but no one should have attempted to re-apply such a distinctive set of circumstances formulaically to other songs expecting to garner repeated success. This was issued as a single credited to Herb Alpert only – indicating that drums, bass, and guitar were not played by Nick, Pat, and John.
Las Mananitas. The vibrato-rich trumpets (arranged in thirds), bells, marimba, and mandolin recall the first two BMB LPs – as does the cool fade into the dusty chaparral, sage, and coastal oak of old Los Angeles.
Sleigh Ride. The vocal chorus is so exciting here that I wish it was a feature for them alone...as all too soon it’s spoiled with more Nick 2/4 polka action. Of all the songs on Christmas Album, this appears bankrupt of any memorable musical ideas whatsoever…the series of key changes at the fade are down right wacky!
Couldn’t Jingle. Finally, a really cool song. Too bad it’s a vocal. In the hands of big Al Anderson of NRBQ this could be a memorable performance. This is HA’s only “up”/light-hearted TjB-era vocal; it’s interesting to note that he sings similar to how he plays horn (circa ’67-‘69: short spurts of sound – no sustained or legato phrasing). Trumpet-playing vocalists, Dizzy Gillespie and Clark Terry – both of whom issued a few very enjoyable light-hearted vocal cuts in the ‘60s, were similarly known for their singing style aligning well with their horn playing.
Let It Snow. Indisputably the best arrangement and performance of the LP. Finally, Bob gets a melody line in! The unobtrusive guitar phrasing throughout is really creative. Altering the melody lines was a nice move, as well. Key changes and some subtly nifty transitions make this one a winner. (Hey, who’s that on alto sax?) Wished the whole LP was this imaginative. A+
Jingle Bell Rock. The ending piano arpeggio was a nice touch to what is clearly the LP’s throwaway.
Jesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring. One can always count on HA to end his LPs with the unexpected. A more full-bodied trumpet would have added to the arrangement. Still, the serenity of HA + chorus conveys a somber reverie. I like this one a lot and played it Christmas eve just before bedtime – the perfect prelude to celebrating Jesus’ birthday!
Christmas albums are not normally issued for critical listening – rather, they are meant as background Yule-tied music to support seasonal festivities; and Christmas Album is certainly successful at accomplishing such a chore. Truth is, HA could have made an LP that was far worse, or exceedingly better, yet such artistic differences would have made little ultimate impact to the targeted buyer. At the time, heading into 1969 may have seemed like uncharted waters given an assessment of 1968 TjB music: only one genuine LP, and HA appearing to proliferate a career as an easy-listening vocalist… No one could have foreseen that the follow-up LP, though relatively unpopular in its day, would ultimately become the most beloved of all LPs issued under the TjB banner.
[As you can see, I’m still upset at not getting that Apollo Mission Control Space Center action kit in 1971…]
With apologies…
In modern corporate-American terms, “Christmas albums” are part of the “Best Of” and “Greatest Hits” marketing genre. All are cash-cow efforts principally designed for top-selling artists to laurel rest, effortlessly make even more mullah, and contemplate the next corporate move. At my most acerbic, their presence indicates a deficiency in (or lack of interest with generating) new artistic ideas, such that it’s preferred to generate yet another pointless Yule-tide offering. (On the other hand (at my most angelic), they afford a unique opportunity to investigate the immeasurable arrangement variations for a select group of about three dozen songs; too, as a Christian, it must be quite that cat’s meow to enjoy en-masse lyrical content praising the lord, Jesus Christ…though he does have to battle Santa, Frosty, Rudolph, and, of course, the other competitive religious/winter-solstice celebrations.)In particular, that HA chose to issue a Christmas LP rather than an LP of new material suggests the TjB were crossing the threshold from "pacesetting artists" to "entertainers" – and if I was a TjB member, I’d be checking my bank account at this point: given that HA issued three consecutive vocal single A-sides (credited to Herb Alpert only)…subsequently followed by a Christmas album; certainly none of these projects would necessarily require TjB-band participation.
Concerning the reissue, probably the best gift from Santa was Gene Sculatti’s CD liner notes thereby protecting 75,000,000 fans from “The Best of Josh Kuhn Cut ‘N Paste Essays - Vol 9" (no doubt telling us – yet again – that Herb never thought of the TjB as Latin…).
As Christmas LPs go, the album is average. Personally, however, it’s an LP just the same – and as a TjB LP, it’s easily their weakest. To float my boat, the only really memorable Christmas recordings are either original material offerings (Vince Guaraldi/A Charlie Brown Christmas), or a re-invention of standards (John Coltrane/My Favourite Things) – such that the music can be satisfying year ‘round. Such was not the case with Christmas Album. Although the one original, a Bacharach tune, is a standout – as is the reading of Let It Snow…; and both of these are fine for perennial listening.
Stylistically, CA fits closer to Herb Alpert’s Ninth than to The Beat of the Brass in its embrace of spartan arrangements. The vocal chorus is excellent, and as much as I find the introductory passages satisfying – the overall quality of which easily outshines the TjB performance – most of the within-song arrangements are standard issue. The peaceful ephemeral vocal chorus juxtaposed against the jovial TjB gives most songs an up-down | up-down | up-down jerkiness that becomes predictable after only a few numbers. The TjB’s hum-drum performance indicates the project was not very motivational. (To be fair, it’d be difficult to get motivated about arranging and recording a bunch of Christmas songs during a July/LA summer…then again, December in LA isn’t much different: sunny & warm with nary a snowflake in sight.)
Winter. Since many of these songs were recorded as doughnuts (“holes” to be filled later by Shorty), it’s interesting to listen for the obvious spaces. That burst of 12 Days of Christmas is so damn campy…but given a house party filled with intoxicated, overweight relatives it’s doubtful anyone playing Christmas Album (or any "Christmas Album" for that matter) would be expected to just sit and critically listen to the music (except an 8-year-old James! Yup, I learned to loath Christmas LPs at an early age).
Jingle Bells. I like the arranged choral melody. Nice Latin take of the song.
Favorite Things. This has gotta be one of the stranger TjB arrangements. That intense repetitive minor thing fueled by Nick’s 2/4 polka beat against some chilling vocal voicings makes for a bizarre-o mix. The sloth-like break piano is peculiar, too. The coda fade on a Minor / Minor-Augmented / Min6 thing is plain creepy sounding. I like it. It’s unusual – cool, too that it was a 45.
Christmas Song. I’ll just say it just once: HA is not a good singer. There. This Guy was a unique mix of content and styling resulting in an exclusive, singular performance; but no one should have attempted to re-apply such a distinctive set of circumstances formulaically to other songs expecting to garner repeated success. This was issued as a single credited to Herb Alpert only – indicating that drums, bass, and guitar were not played by Nick, Pat, and John.
Las Mananitas. The vibrato-rich trumpets (arranged in thirds), bells, marimba, and mandolin recall the first two BMB LPs – as does the cool fade into the dusty chaparral, sage, and coastal oak of old Los Angeles.
Sleigh Ride. The vocal chorus is so exciting here that I wish it was a feature for them alone...as all too soon it’s spoiled with more Nick 2/4 polka action. Of all the songs on Christmas Album, this appears bankrupt of any memorable musical ideas whatsoever…the series of key changes at the fade are down right wacky!
Couldn’t Jingle. Finally, a really cool song. Too bad it’s a vocal. In the hands of big Al Anderson of NRBQ this could be a memorable performance. This is HA’s only “up”/light-hearted TjB-era vocal; it’s interesting to note that he sings similar to how he plays horn (circa ’67-‘69: short spurts of sound – no sustained or legato phrasing). Trumpet-playing vocalists, Dizzy Gillespie and Clark Terry – both of whom issued a few very enjoyable light-hearted vocal cuts in the ‘60s, were similarly known for their singing style aligning well with their horn playing.
Let It Snow. Indisputably the best arrangement and performance of the LP. Finally, Bob gets a melody line in! The unobtrusive guitar phrasing throughout is really creative. Altering the melody lines was a nice move, as well. Key changes and some subtly nifty transitions make this one a winner. (Hey, who’s that on alto sax?) Wished the whole LP was this imaginative. A+
Jingle Bell Rock. The ending piano arpeggio was a nice touch to what is clearly the LP’s throwaway.
Jesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring. One can always count on HA to end his LPs with the unexpected. A more full-bodied trumpet would have added to the arrangement. Still, the serenity of HA + chorus conveys a somber reverie. I like this one a lot and played it Christmas eve just before bedtime – the perfect prelude to celebrating Jesus’ birthday!
Christmas albums are not normally issued for critical listening – rather, they are meant as background Yule-tied music to support seasonal festivities; and Christmas Album is certainly successful at accomplishing such a chore. Truth is, HA could have made an LP that was far worse, or exceedingly better, yet such artistic differences would have made little ultimate impact to the targeted buyer. At the time, heading into 1969 may have seemed like uncharted waters given an assessment of 1968 TjB music: only one genuine LP, and HA appearing to proliferate a career as an easy-listening vocalist… No one could have foreseen that the follow-up LP, though relatively unpopular in its day, would ultimately become the most beloved of all LPs issued under the TjB banner.
OK, the firing squad may now take aim...
[As you can see, I’m still upset at not getting that Apollo Mission Control Space Center action kit in 1971…]
audiofile
Member
No offense, but I'm really sick of your negative comments towards TJB records dressed up with what sounds like intelligent analysis of the music with technical terms.
The TJB Christmas album is one of the greatest Christmas records of all-time. It's just so well done.
Maybe you're just not really a TJB fan, after all you think Sounds Like is the last great TJB album. I don't want to make any enemies here, it just doesn't make sense how you could like Sounds Like and not Herb Alpert's Ninth or Beat of the Brass and to come to a Herb Alpert message forum and bash most Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass recordings.
The TJB Christmas album is one of the greatest Christmas records of all-time. It's just so well done.
Maybe you're just not really a TJB fan, after all you think Sounds Like is the last great TJB album. I don't want to make any enemies here, it just doesn't make sense how you could like Sounds Like and not Herb Alpert's Ninth or Beat of the Brass and to come to a Herb Alpert message forum and bash most Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass recordings.
JO said:
Wow! I had that toy!
And I happen to enjoy your analysis whether I agree or not. That's what make sthis a wonderful forum -- everybody has slightly different tastes in what they like and dislike -- all united in love for the great music of A&M in general and Herb Alpert in particular.
Of course,you did invite the firing squad
--Mr Bill
to whom the much despised and maligned "Talk To The Animals" was a the favorite BOTB tune for many years...
I feel it might be necessary for a pre-emptive strike here before a full flame-war erupts.
Let's remember that it's OK not to like something. (I personally can't stand 80% of THE LONELY BULL.) This is a place for opinions, and if James has a negative opinion of the album, such is his right. I do think he'll be in the minority on this one but that doesn't mean he has to keep his feelings to himself. He has been more than careful to explain his opinions on the albums...and, he is a musician so putting some thoughts in musical terms is understandable.
So herewith, a Moderator Note:
If readers wish to disagree and/or debate with James over his points above, feel free...but please refrain from personal attacks such as "You're an idiot"-type comments; they will be promptly deleted.
Let's remember that it's OK not to like something. (I personally can't stand 80% of THE LONELY BULL.) This is a place for opinions, and if James has a negative opinion of the album, such is his right. I do think he'll be in the minority on this one but that doesn't mean he has to keep his feelings to himself. He has been more than careful to explain his opinions on the albums...and, he is a musician so putting some thoughts in musical terms is understandable.
So herewith, a Moderator Note:
If readers wish to disagree and/or debate with James over his points above, feel free...but please refrain from personal attacks such as "You're an idiot"-type comments; they will be promptly deleted.
In edited highlights said:
Given the number of positive things James wrote in his "negative" review, I think he likes the album more than he admits. He's just cranky about not getting his toy...
:bigsanta: As for "Christmas Song" being credited to Herb Alpert only, remember that though "The Tijuana Brass" was a traveling band, it was also a sound in Herb's head. The term does not always refer to individual musicians.
So in the case of "Christmas Song" on a single, the credit "Herb Alpert" is accurate, indicating that overall he didn't consider it to be the sound of the Tijuana Brass. It could still very well be Nick, Pat, and John playing and backing up Herb on a record that doesn't happen to fit the TjB mold.
Harry
I think James is Right on with his critiques so (IMHO) please feel free to offer your insight on any album Herb has created. I look forward to reading them! Not every song Herb performed is going to make each person happy and I agree, something changed with Herbs playing after Sounds Like his tone reflecting a clinical depression and based on his interviews it is certainly likely. He would not be the first performer to feel exhausted and burned out happens to a majority of them, even to those of us in our Normal work schedules. I believe that when a performer is Critiqued and his music dissected, even on a level where fans might be upset, it is a sincere form of admiration. The fact that albums created over 30 years ago with each song scrutinized and evaluated speaks highly of the person who created them! So bring it on James I eagerly anticipate your next Review.
JOv2
Well-Known Member
To my e-acquaintances at A&M Corner: Do accept my written apology for any antagonistic feelings that may have been unintentionally sustained as a result of my review posts. Surely, my intent was not to cause animosity of any sort.
Ill be the first to admit that writing and posting critical essays in a fan-based forum may be regarded as a precarious endeavour tantamount to a George W. Bush visit to San Francisco (which has yet to occur). On the cursory level, the available extremes are obvious: the ultrasensitive fan over-zealously elevating a designated human to the rank of messiah; and the haughty critic who grinds endless axes on a lifetime of malignant jealousy and irrational insecurity. Luckily, most of us are not subscribers to such dogmatic stations.
A house filled with 50s/60s/70s music is why I love music and why I am a musician; Mr. Alpert is the reason I play trumpet in 4th grade becoming my first serious instrument. (Heck, I even play the same make and model HA played in the 60s Benge/3X [ML] chosen, primarily, as a result of his sound on And The Angels Sing.)
Like most in the silent majority, Ive enjoyed reading forum messages for many years particularly those of Capn D (being a fellow trumpet player). Given music is our unifying factor and my work as an arranger/instrumentalist, I recently decided to offer viewpoints I didnt see regularly cited in detail: I write from the standpoint of an arranger first, an instrumentalist second, and a connoisseur third. Naturally, this may afford a level of base insensitivity in that most of us write from our hearts; nevertheless, I believe its rather fascinating to throw away the fan club membership cards and just write about the music in its pure form. Truthfully, it is more heartfelt that way just as David has accurately explained.
Hey, look at the bright side: I hear flu season ends in two weeks!
Ill be the first to admit that writing and posting critical essays in a fan-based forum may be regarded as a precarious endeavour tantamount to a George W. Bush visit to San Francisco (which has yet to occur). On the cursory level, the available extremes are obvious: the ultrasensitive fan over-zealously elevating a designated human to the rank of messiah; and the haughty critic who grinds endless axes on a lifetime of malignant jealousy and irrational insecurity. Luckily, most of us are not subscribers to such dogmatic stations.
A house filled with 50s/60s/70s music is why I love music and why I am a musician; Mr. Alpert is the reason I play trumpet in 4th grade becoming my first serious instrument. (Heck, I even play the same make and model HA played in the 60s Benge/3X [ML] chosen, primarily, as a result of his sound on And The Angels Sing.)
Like most in the silent majority, Ive enjoyed reading forum messages for many years particularly those of Capn D (being a fellow trumpet player). Given music is our unifying factor and my work as an arranger/instrumentalist, I recently decided to offer viewpoints I didnt see regularly cited in detail: I write from the standpoint of an arranger first, an instrumentalist second, and a connoisseur third. Naturally, this may afford a level of base insensitivity in that most of us write from our hearts; nevertheless, I believe its rather fascinating to throw away the fan club membership cards and just write about the music in its pure form. Truthfully, it is more heartfelt that way just as David has accurately explained.
Hey, look at the bright side: I hear flu season ends in two weeks!
Mike
Active Member
I never play the Christmas album except at Christmas time. I don't give Herb's much thought, I play it along with my other Christmas CDs just to enhance the Holiday spirit; after December 25th, it's back on the shelf until next December. Sure it's a good CD, but hey, it's still just Christmas music to me.
When I rank or rate my favorite Herb Alpert Albums, the Christmas album doesn't even come to my mind. Heck, it's only got 10 songs on it.
Of course one might wonder why I have the vinyl LP version, the original CD version, the Shout CD release and the Japanese paper sleave release... I guess I'm a fan!
Mike
When I rank or rate my favorite Herb Alpert Albums, the Christmas album doesn't even come to my mind. Heck, it's only got 10 songs on it.
Of course one might wonder why I have the vinyl LP version, the original CD version, the Shout CD release and the Japanese paper sleave release... I guess I'm a fan!
Mike
martin
Well-Known Member
While very "flowery" in language, I think JO's review of the Chrismas Album misses quite a few points. Probably, as Steve Sidoruk commented in the discussion around WCAOD, one has to consider the time and place, to really be able to review a 40 year old album in a just way.
First of all, the the Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass Christmas Album is filled with fun. The arrangements create alternative versions of all too familiar material, that are really imaginative and refreshing, especially considering that we are talking 1968. "My Favourite Things" from Sound Of Music for example, which in the movie version with Julie Andrews was a family blockbuster in the mid sixties includes a quote from John Barry's "James Bond Theme" that is impossible not to recognize. Combining the safe "family entertainment" of Sound Of Music with the violent and sexy James Bond was typical Herb and TJB, well in style with the image of the group. It seems that JO misses this point altogether in his comments and the same lack of sensitivity and understanding is repeated time and again through his review.
The version of "Winter Wonderland" is unique in combining a typical TJB approach to a familiar tune, if you don't think "tongue in cheek" here, you haven't really grasped it (and JO obviously hasn't.)
The "Sleigh Ride" version with its tempo and key changes paints the perfect picture of a real sleigh ride, slowing down and setting up the tempos, making a totally unique and fun version of very tired and familiar material.
"Christmas Song" must be one of Herb's best vocal efforts ever, even surpassing "This Guy" (and as an album producer with more than 60 albums made, I claim some authority in this area), and the version of "Jesu Joy" is major risk taking from Herb, displaying him in a "classical setting" unheard on earlier outings.
I could go on and on.. But most of us here know all of this already.
- Greetings from the cold, white (and quite "Christmasy") north -
Martin
First of all, the the Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass Christmas Album is filled with fun. The arrangements create alternative versions of all too familiar material, that are really imaginative and refreshing, especially considering that we are talking 1968. "My Favourite Things" from Sound Of Music for example, which in the movie version with Julie Andrews was a family blockbuster in the mid sixties includes a quote from John Barry's "James Bond Theme" that is impossible not to recognize. Combining the safe "family entertainment" of Sound Of Music with the violent and sexy James Bond was typical Herb and TJB, well in style with the image of the group. It seems that JO misses this point altogether in his comments and the same lack of sensitivity and understanding is repeated time and again through his review.
The version of "Winter Wonderland" is unique in combining a typical TJB approach to a familiar tune, if you don't think "tongue in cheek" here, you haven't really grasped it (and JO obviously hasn't.)
The "Sleigh Ride" version with its tempo and key changes paints the perfect picture of a real sleigh ride, slowing down and setting up the tempos, making a totally unique and fun version of very tired and familiar material.
"Christmas Song" must be one of Herb's best vocal efforts ever, even surpassing "This Guy" (and as an album producer with more than 60 albums made, I claim some authority in this area), and the version of "Jesu Joy" is major risk taking from Herb, displaying him in a "classical setting" unheard on earlier outings.
I could go on and on.. But most of us here know all of this already.
- Greetings from the cold, white (and quite "Christmasy") north -
Martin
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
Mike Blakesley said:
Thank you for this post.
There have been times when this forum seems to be more like an exercise in cheerleading than a discussion group. Personally, I prefer the latter and am able to accept someone else's expression of opinion even when different from mine.
I am far more troubled by personal attacks based on "you dissed my hero" than opinions which differ from mine.
My recollections about "fan clubs" are pretty negative. All I remember about them is the teeny bopper fan clubs back in the sixties which sprang up when the Beatles debuted in the US.
So, "soldier on" JO...you are entitled to the free expression of your opinions rather than fan censorship, and what is refreshing about them is not whether I agree or disagree, but the fact that you back them up with some thought out analysis.
Provocative? Maybe, but I'm a "big boy" and can handle that. I actually enjoy the free exchange of ideas and sometimes actually rethink my views... and may I be so bold?...even have been known to... oh my goodness...actually change my opinion based on further thought and new information...
Me too! Would you believe that, before I found A&M Corner, I:
- Didn't like the slow songs by the TJB and Sergio Mendes
- Had never realized there are no snare drums on any of the Brasil '66 albums (except STILLNESS)
- Didn't care for the 'jazz' elements of Herb's playing
- Had never heard the word "embouchure"
- Didn't know Herb was Jewish
...the list could go on.
Anyway, back on topic. While I obviously enjoy the CHRISTMAS ALBUM a lot more than James does, I do have to disagree with him on two major points:
He says Bob Edmondson "finally gets a lead" in "Let It Snow"....James, did you forget "It Was a Very Good Year" from WNML? Bob plays more lead on that one than Herb does!
Also, on "The Christmas Song." I realize a lot of people are not big fans of Herb's vocals, and I'm not really either, but I think this is one of his best. It's another one of those tunes that I didn't like much when I first heard it, but it has grown on me over the years. The appeal is the same as on "This Guy's In Love" -- it's a vocal that's casual, not trying too hard, and the arrangement has the same casualness.
While James is right in that most Christmas albums are just cash-in efforts, you have to admit that Herb could have easily done an album where he just played Christmas's Greatest Hits in the same tired way as all the other artists of the time were doing -- but he chose to change up the arrangements from what we might expect, pop in a few surprises and make an album that is a worthy addition to the TJB catalog.
As for Mike (Japan) above stating that the album isn't in his top 10 and he only listens to it at Christmastime....well, that's understandable given that it's a SEASONAL album and isn't meant to be listened to year round. Although I did edit off the choral intro to "My Favorite Things" (since it isn't a Christmas song anyway) and include it in a "best of TJB" cassette I once made.
I do agree that the album is too short. Without the choral intros, it's by far the shortest record Herb ever made. I've always wondered if there are any songs on the cutting room floor...but there probably are not. After all it's probably tough to get in to the Christmas spirit when you're (A) sweltering in the L.A. heat in June; and (B) Jewish.
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
I myself have never liked the choral intros on this album, but I suppose they tend to give the album a little more of a typical, mainstream, "holiday-ish" feel.
I think it's a nice album overall. The uptempo parts where the TJB sound most like themselves are my favorite parts - like My Favorite Things, Winter Wonderland, Jingle Bell Rock, and Sleigh Ride.
I'm glad there is a TJB album to play as an alternative to the tired, worn holiday standards paraded out every year since the beginning of time, or so it seems. I'm not much of a fan of holiday music, but I do appreciate this album as a nice alternative to all the rest of it.
I will admit that I play it at other times of the year than simply holidays. I just play it to hear some other songs and really don't feel it's necessary to make the holiday association or restrict it to the holiday season.
I think it's a nice album overall. The uptempo parts where the TJB sound most like themselves are my favorite parts - like My Favorite Things, Winter Wonderland, Jingle Bell Rock, and Sleigh Ride.
I'm glad there is a TJB album to play as an alternative to the tired, worn holiday standards paraded out every year since the beginning of time, or so it seems. I'm not much of a fan of holiday music, but I do appreciate this album as a nice alternative to all the rest of it.
I will admit that I play it at other times of the year than simply holidays. I just play it to hear some other songs and really don't feel it's necessary to make the holiday association or restrict it to the holiday season.
Mine is simple: Winter Wonderland. It's been played and compliled on Dad's old reel-to-reels (along with Sergio's Christmas Song) every Christmas. It's now been digitally remastered, placed on Disc (along with other Christmas standards that we grew up with) to play throughout our home during the Christmas Season.
Jon
Jon
I'm probably among the biggest Herb Alpert "fanboys" - if you want to call it that. In that respect, there's very little that Herb ever recorded that I don't like to some degree. I can even find merit in COLORS!
But, that said, I'll defend to the death the right of people like JO to write his thoughtful critical reviews. I find them fascinating, well-thought-out, and honest - and I like that. If he (or anyone) has a reason to dislike one of my favorites, so be it. It's a big world and there are many different tastes out there, and that's what makes these discussion boards so intriguing. We can meet up with other like-minded and not-so-like-minded individuals.
Go JO!
Harry
But, that said, I'll defend to the death the right of people like JO to write his thoughtful critical reviews. I find them fascinating, well-thought-out, and honest - and I like that. If he (or anyone) has a reason to dislike one of my favorites, so be it. It's a big world and there are many different tastes out there, and that's what makes these discussion boards so intriguing. We can meet up with other like-minded and not-so-like-minded individuals.
Go JO!
Harry
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
Harry said:
I couldn't have said it better myself!
Dan
JOv2
Well-Known Member
Martin – Not so much missed points, as points not considered. Hey, you’re a producer – I’m an arranger…an adversarial relationship if ever there was one (ha!). Seriously, mucho thanks for critiquing the critique. Like an artist, a reviewer cannot be all things to all people. (Or to be a bit more flowery, "I ain't no panacea to the masses, nowamsain?".) As I clearly stated I am reviewing from an arranger's musical viewpoint; all these excursions into timely-'60s social brouhaha are purposely absent (or downplayed). I greatly respect your veteran producer credentials – you guys have the toughest job trying to create a vision unifying song with performer to achieve a presentation that would capture the public’s fancy; all this happens, of course, at the expense of an arranger’s "finished" work, which, when presented to a producer, is customarily critiqued and edited (a very tough pill to swallow…we all know that story of Randy Newman nearly walking out on the musical producer of Sea Biscuit over “artistic differences” regarding underscore arrangement). HA wisely avoided such confrontational scenarios by being an arranger-producer and owning his own record company. Smart move cuz I'll bet my first born that the master tapes for The Lonely Bull would have been rejected by the majors of the day (Capitol, RCA, Columbia); and, no doubt in the hands of a mainstream 1962 pop producer, the record would have lacked much of its originality.
Here's a personal, cute, mostly sarcastic-driven exchange about trying to be all things to a producer forever locked into my memory from last summer (toward the end of a rather long and tough session):
Mike -- Agreed! But I was only referring to this album! Hey, you caught me on BOTB with this once before (Ha!)...I will always state that not featuring Bob and John as "significant" soloists was a major missed TjB opportunity.
Here's a personal, cute, mostly sarcastic-driven exchange about trying to be all things to a producer forever locked into my memory from last summer (toward the end of a rather long and tough session):
- After a couple takes on a song Producer X said he wanted it more brassy -- so he asked me to use my trumpet.
OK.
Still not brassy enough, so I switched to a shallow cup mouthpiece.
OK.
Still not quite was he wanted...he asked for some shimmering vibrato.
OK.
Then he said to me: Look, can you play it like Herb Albert [he said ALBERT] does on those "Mexican songs"?.
To which I said: Look, why don't you just hire Herb ALBERT?"
Producer: Yeah, well we tried but he's too expensive, so we're stuck with you!
Me: You wouldn't hire Freddie Hubbard and ask him to play like Herb ALBERT would you?
Producer: You're not Freddie Hubbard...
Me: Look, you hired me based on MY style not on my ability to imitate well-known trumpeters...
Mike -- Agreed! But I was only referring to this album! Hey, you caught me on BOTB with this once before (Ha!)...I will always state that not featuring Bob and John as "significant" soloists was a major missed TjB opportunity.
Dave
Well-Known Member
Don't think I'm going to hear anything from this on the radio this year, unless I play it on my CD...! Unless something takes me by surprise at my favorite stores...
Still like "My Favorite Things" the most, followed by at a close second, the warm, earnest and sincere reading of "The Christmas Song"...
Dave
Still like "My Favorite Things" the most, followed by at a close second, the warm, earnest and sincere reading of "The Christmas Song"...
Dave
I've already heard:
My Favorite Things
Jingle Bells
Winter Wonderland
Jingle Bell Rock
...on the XM "Holiday Traditions" channel. They are playing a ton of Carpenters music too. Nothing from SOMETHING FESTIVE yet, though!
My Favorite Things
Jingle Bells
Winter Wonderland
Jingle Bell Rock
...on the XM "Holiday Traditions" channel. They are playing a ton of Carpenters music too. Nothing from SOMETHING FESTIVE yet, though!
There is a station in my town with Christmas music 24/7 (FM) and Herbs tunes from this album are played on a rotating basis. One more time of hearing “Couldn’t Jingle and Santa soon discovered" over and over in my head I’m going to need more Prozac.
This album disappointed me when I bought it 30 years ago. For me the background vocals sound campy and it sounded like Herb came in on whim, blew a few notes and called it a day. The one gem is “Jingle Bell Rock.” I like the tempo and thought it caught the flavor of the TJB. Other than that I consider it an uninspired project.
This album disappointed me when I bought it 30 years ago. For me the background vocals sound campy and it sounded like Herb came in on whim, blew a few notes and called it a day. The one gem is “Jingle Bell Rock.” I like the tempo and thought it caught the flavor of the TJB. Other than that I consider it an uninspired project.
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
DAN BOLTON said:
And I thought times were tough when I wrote that a couple of years ago. Christmas is going to have to be a creative one this year...not a lot of dough, but plenty of staples; and the Christmas Album is one of the best. Thanks, Herb! Merry Christmas/Happy Hannukah!
Dan
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