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Classic AOTW Herb Alpert & TJB-WHAT NOW MY LOVE SP-4114

What is your favorite track?

  • What Now My Love

    Votes: 15 31.9%
  • Freckles

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • Memories Of Madrid

    Votes: 12 25.5%
  • It Was A Very Good Year

    Votes: 3 6.4%
  • So What's New?

    Votes: 4 8.5%
  • Plucky

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Magic Trumpet

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Cantina Blue

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brasilia

    Votes: 5 10.6%
  • If I Were A Rich Man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Five Minutes More

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • The Shadow Of Your Smile

    Votes: 3 6.4%

  • Total voters
    47

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
Yeah, that was my first clue that something was up, when I listened to SOLID BRASS when it first came out. Something sounded different about "So What's New" - it wasn't the same as on my old WHAT NOW MY LOVE album. It was missing some reverb on the trumpet, but mostly on the whistling.

Then on side two, "What Now My Love" sounded strangely different too, less reverb. Then when GREATEST HITS 2 came out, those two were still dry, and "Brasilia" just sounded flat-out wrong.

In the early 80s, I stumbled onto a yard sale where a ton of TJB albums were being sold for 50¢ each and they looked nice and clean. So I took them home for a freshening of my own library. These all had hardly ever been played. And this is where my WHAT NOW MY LOVE story gets a bit strange.

Every now and again, of course, I'd play GREATEST HITS VOLUME 2 and lament the missing trombone fills on "Brasilia". One day, I dug out the newer, cleaner, WHAT NOW MY LOVE album to hear the real "Brasilia" - and it didn't sound any different at all. Did I imagine these trombone fills? Was I going crazy? This weird-sounding "Brasilia" on GH2 sounded exactly like the "Brasilia" on my WHAT NOW MY LOVE LP. I chalked it up to some craziness, maybe the way I heard it on TV or in concert, but those two surely were the same.

A few years later, the WHAT NOW MY LOVE CD came out from A&M, and I've already detailed my shock at "Plucky". But it also had those dry tracks that I'd first heard on SOLID BRASS and GH2. So once again, I tried to figure out the mystery of "Brasilia". At home I listened to the LP of WHAT NOW MY LOVE, this same one that was nice, fresh, vinyl from that yard sale, and no, "Plucky" sounded normal. So did "What Now My Love" and "So What's New". It was just "Brasilia" that still sounded odd. Same way on the new CDs of GH2 and SOLID BRASS that were available around that time. I must have imagined those trombone fills, but it sure sounded like sometime was missing.

Flash-forward to the late 90s and my encountering this site and all of its knowledgeable TjB fans. A discussion about this very subject led me to head to the basement to rescue some other, lesser quality copies of WHAT NOW MY LOVE. That's when I finally found the old version of "Brasilia" with the trombone fills, and I felt vindicated. My mind wasn't going crazy. These LPs were all different.

It turns out that the nice, clean WHAT NOW MY LOVE from the yard sale was a hybrid between the wet and dry versions. Side One was the old, familiar wet version, and Side Two was the dry version. They must have renewed the Side Two stamper while leaving the old Side One stamper alone - at least for the run of pressings that this was from. That's how we know of hybrid versions - I have one.
 

beatcomber

Member
Not really except when you open the record jacket and the A&M label will more often than not will be the giveaway if it's an early ocher color pressing it will more often be the wet mix if it's the later silver tan A&M label and subsequent Vinyl and CD pressings from the mid 70s to the present it will be the dry mix as it was mentioned previously here this album was pressed at several different pressing plants a similar situation Happened with the earlier South of the Border Album as well
Is there any indications in the dead wax?

I rarely come across '70s pressings of Herb Alpert LPs. If the majority of '60s pressings have the wet mix, and later pressings have the dry mix, it sounds to me like the original stampers wore out and they grabbed the wrong tapes when they did the recut. Or maybe the original stereo master was in bad shape and they did a hasty remix (kind of like what happened with the stereo "Blonde On Blonde" in 1968).
 

beatcomber

Member
It turns out that the nice, clean WHAT NOW MY LOVE from the yard sale was a hybrid between the wet and dry versions. Side One was the old, familiar wet version, and Side Two was the dry version. They must have renewed the Side Two stamper while leaving the old Side One stamper alone - at least for the run of pressings that this was from. That's how we know of hybrid versions - I have one.
More evidence to support my theory! :)
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
My hybrid has standard-looking ochre labels and has these stamper numbers:

Side One (wet): SP-4127-1D (machine stamped oriented with label below)
Side Two (dry): SP 4128 (RE-2) - 1 (handwritten oriented with label above)
 

beatcomber

Member
My hybrid has standard-looking ochre labels and has these stamper numbers:

Side One (wet): SP-4127-1D (machine stamped oriented with label below)
Side Two (dry): SP 4128 (RE-2) - 1 (handwritten oriented with label above)
A ha! The "RE-2" indicates that the dry version is a re-cut. THANKS!

Now I have to go see which version I have...
 

beatcomber

Member
My copy is:
Side One: SP 4127-D10 (handwritten)
Side Two: SP 4128-D10 (handwritten)

I'll give it a spin later and see if it sounds 'wet,' which I assume it will.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
And it might have to be "RE-2" to be dry. I say that because I have a mono LP with an RE-1, and of course, it's wet. But I think all mono LPs would be wet.
 

beatcomber

Member
And it might have to be "RE-2" to be dry. I say that because I have a mono LP with an RE-1, and of course, it's wet. But I think all mono LPs would be wet.
Good point... a stereo RE-1 (if one exists) could be either.

Anyhoo, my D10 copy appears to be the wet mix. It has the usual Gold Star reverb on everything.
 
Last edited:

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
I also have a D-10 copy and it, like all of my copies are wet mixes. My only dry mix is that RE-2 side and all CDs.
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
So, when I'm in a Goodwill and come across this LP, is there an easy way to visually tell if it's the wet or dry version?
Not without listening to it, but you might be able to see if the "Plucky" track looks as though it has a "break" in the middle of it. I might see if I can get a photo of the grooves somehow.
 

beatcomber

Member
Not without listening to it, but you might be able to see if the "Plucky" track looks as though it has a "break" in the middle of it. I might see if I can get a photo of the grooves somehow.
That's a good idea, I bet I could visually confirm it that way.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
Well, you could confirm Side One that way... Right?
 

martin

Active Member
Yeah, that was my first clue that something was up, when I listened to SOLID BRASS when it first came out. Something sounded different about "So What's New" - it wasn't the same as on my old WHAT NOW MY LOVE album. It was missing some reverb on the trumpet, but mostly on the whistling.

Then on side two, "What Now My Love" sounded strangely different too, less reverb. Then when GREATEST HITS 2 came out, those two were still dry, and "Brasilia" just sounded flat-out wrong.

In the early 80s, I stumbled onto a yard sale where a ton of TJB albums were being sold for 50¢ each and they looked nice and clean. So I took them home for a freshening of my own library. These all had hardly ever been played. And this is where my WHAT NOW MY LOVE story gets a bit strange.

Every now and again, of course, I'd play GREATEST HITS VOLUME 2 and lament the missing trombone fills on "Brasilia". One day, I dug out the newer, cleaner, WHAT NOW MY LOVE album to hear the real "Brasilia" - and it didn't sound any different at all. Did I imagine these trombone fills? Was I going crazy? This weird-sounding "Brasilia" on GH2 sounded exactly like the "Brasilia" on my WHAT NOW MY LOVE LP. I chalked it up to some craziness, maybe the way I heard it on TV or in concert, but those two surely were the same.

A few years later, the WHAT NOW MY LOVE CD came out from A&M, and I've already detailed my shock at "Plucky". But it also had those dry tracks that I'd first heard on SOLID BRASS and GH2. So once again, I tried to figure out the mystery of "Brasilia". At home I listened to the LP of WHAT NOW MY LOVE, this same one that was nice, fresh, vinyl from that yard sale, and no, "Plucky" sounded normal. So did "What Now My Love" and "So What's New". It was just "Brasilia" that still sounded odd. Same way on the new CDs of GH2 and SOLID BRASS that were available around that time. I must have imagined those trombone fills, but it sure sounded like sometime was missing.

Flash-forward to the late 90s and my encountering this site and all of its knowledgeable TjB fans. A discussion about this very subject led me to head to the basement to rescue some other, lesser quality copies of WHAT NOW MY LOVE. That's when I finally found the old version of "Brasilia" with the trombone fills, and I felt vindicated. My mind wasn't going crazy. These LPs were all different.

It turns out that the nice, clean WHAT NOW MY LOVE from the yard sale was a hybrid between the wet and dry versions. Side One was the old, familiar wet version, and Side Two was the dry version. They must have renewed the Side Two stamper while leaving the old Side One stamper alone - at least for the run of pressings that this was from. That's how we know of hybrid versions - I have one.
Is there a version of the "wet" mixes anywhere on YouTube?
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Reading over this thread, I realized I had never voted for a favorite. As I wrote years ago, it is a three-way choice for me - the title tune, "Freckles," and "Memories of Madrid." If I had to pick one of those to never hear again, it would be a very hard choice. So I finally settled on "Freckles," because it only had one other vote, but if I could vote for three favorites, all three of them would share my top spot.

I think it's kind of funny that even though the wet & dry versions have been brought up to Herb more than once (and maybe even by Randy Badazz and/or Bill Cantos too, given the fact they've visted this board) and he doesn't know about it. I still wonder if he's actually heard the differences and commented on them to anyone. We may never know.
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
I used to have a file that showed all the differences between the two versions. Only, I don't have a needledrop of both of the records anymore.
 

martin

Active Member
I have been without a turntable for a while, but got one this week. I took up my LP of What Now My Love that I purchased as a 12 year old in 1971. It is the Deutsche Grammophon pressing with the 212010 series no. I haven't been listening to this vinyl version for many years, and it struck me how good it sounds compared to the CD versions, of which I have all three. The trombone on Brasilia, the edition of Plucky and the added reverb on some of the songs are obvious improvements, as has been stated here by some of you. This was also obviously the version that was distributed in Europe, so definitely the authorised mix. With todays technical possibilities, it would not have been too difficult to create a master that had these elements added. One would need a clean vinyl version and pick from that and mix it in with the master that was used for the CD versions.

- greetings from the nice north -
Martin
 

Rudy

¡Que siga la fiesta!
Staff member
Site Admin
I believe there was only one mono version--that's the one I grew up with, and when I found a used stereo copy locally, that copy matched everything on the mono. The version that's out by Herb Alpert Presents (as well as Shout Factory) is the alternate version, which I only just heard in the mid 90s. (I never did get the first CD release.)
 

martin

Active Member
It would have been interesting to know if anyone here had the japanese CD of WNML from the 80’s. I got hold of the japanese version of Going Places in London in 1998, and it is different from the A&M release. It sounds a lot brighter so it seems that PonyCanyon in Japan had made their own master. It could be that they did that with WNML also.

Greetings from the north
Martin
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
It would have been interesting to know if anyone here had the japanese CD of WNML from the 80’s. I got hold of the japanese version of Going Places in London in 1998, and it is different from the A&M release. It sounds a lot brighter so it seems that PonyCanyon in Japan had made their own master. It could be that they did that with WNML also.

Greetings from the north
Martin
Looking on Discogs, it appears that the first Japanese issue came out a year later than the first US issue - plenty of time to ship those mixes over to Japan. The first mix on CD was also the dry one.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
FYI, I've edited the poll so that if you've already voted, you may change your vote.
 
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