🎵 AotW Classics Herb Alpert & TJB-WHAT NOW MY LOVE SP-4114
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rockdoctor
Well-Known Member
My original version of this album is mono so I do not know about wet/dry mixes. I'd have to look in some boxes to see if I ever ended up with a stereo version of this album.
I picked "What Now My Love" as favorite but I did enjoy many of the selections.
rockdoctor
Well-Known Member
Thanks Harry.
I do not understand wet/dry mixes so I guess I do not have the ear to notice it.
Listen for Herb's lead on "What Now My Love". On the wet mix, there's a constant reverb (quick echo) on all of the lead parts. On the dry mix. the main lead has little to no reverb but the "answer" trumpet parts are reverbed.
The easiest place to hear the dry mix is the CD of "Brasilia" - the trombone fills are totally missing! But they're there on the wet mix.
The easiest place to hear the dry mix is the CD of "Brasilia" - the trombone fills are totally missing! But they're there on the wet mix.
beatcomber
Well-Known Member
I love the ambiguity of the title, "What Now My Love."
Does it mean "What's wrong NOW, my love" (said with a sigh) or does it mean, "What do we do now, my love" (ie: there's a conflict with the relationship)?
Does it mean "What's wrong NOW, my love" (said with a sigh) or does it mean, "What do we do now, my love" (ie: there's a conflict with the relationship)?
English lyrics to the French song, "Et maintenant"
What now, my love, now that you left me?
How can I live through another day
Watching my dreams turn into ashes
And all my hopes into bits of clay?
Once I could see, once I could feel
Now I'm numb, I've become unreal
I walk the night, oh, without a goal
Stripped of my heart, my soul
What now, my love, now that it's over?
I feel the world closing in on me
Here comes the stars tumbling around me
And there's the sky where the sea should be
What now, my love, now that you're gone?
I'd be a fool to go on and on
No one would care, no one would cry
If I should live or die
What now, my love, now there is nothing?
Only my last goodbye
Only my last goodbye
What now, my love, now that you left me?
How can I live through another day
Watching my dreams turn into ashes
And all my hopes into bits of clay?
Once I could see, once I could feel
Now I'm numb, I've become unreal
I walk the night, oh, without a goal
Stripped of my heart, my soul
What now, my love, now that it's over?
I feel the world closing in on me
Here comes the stars tumbling around me
And there's the sky where the sea should be
What now, my love, now that you're gone?
I'd be a fool to go on and on
No one would care, no one would cry
If I should live or die
What now, my love, now there is nothing?
Only my last goodbye
Only my last goodbye
beatcomber
Well-Known Member
Jeez, I had NO IDEA it was a French song!
I just did a google search, and see that numerous English vocal versions were done, by Shirley Bassey, Ben E. King, Elvis Presley, and others.
beatcomber
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's a great story!
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
Around here, when the song was popular (and it seemed to dominate the airwaves), a local bank came up with a jingle based on it that was so bad, it was funny. A couple of guys sang a ditty about getting..." a loan with the smaller O-W-E...". They really butchered the song, which had to be their intent...they were way off key, but it was effective.
The same guys did another commercial with a cowboy theme where one of them, who was rather corpulent, rode a stick with a horse's head on it...he was the "Loan Arranger".
I'll stop now.
The same guys did another commercial with a cowboy theme where one of them, who was rather corpulent, rode a stick with a horse's head on it...he was the "Loan Arranger".
I'll stop now.
Bobberman
Well-Known Member
This is exactly how I felt when my engagement was broken several years ago but thankfully I first heard Herb's version which was the first version of this song I ever heard so it doesn't really affect me negatively but lyrics hit home but Herb's arrangement kept the sentimentality in check which is always a good thing
JOv2
Well-Known Member
Gilbert Becaud wrote and first recorded the piece back in 1961. Though recorded with the English translations by numerous artists in the 1960s and 1970s, one of the more interesting versions was by Bud Dashiell (of Bud & Travis): In 1967 he recorded his one and only "solo" LP (for WB). He utilized two acoustic guitars, double bass, and drum kit throughout the session. For "Et maintenant" he preserved the original French lyric. Given he spoke French fluently, his cover was compelling. "What Now My Love" has received treatments as a tango, a 4/4 swing, a rubato ballad, a bolero, a bossa...and Bud delivers his own unique reading.
The "Plucky" Conundrum
Since back in the late 80s, when I first heard the CD of WHAT NOW MY LOVE, and nearly lost control of my car when the "Plucky" bump & grind section came on, I've had questions about this mix of the song. I'd grown up with the "wet" version of the album and never knew of any other. On that "wet" version, "Plucky" is a straightforward song with no middle "bump and grind" part.
So, after hearing this new middle part, well, new to me anyway, I wondered how in the world that part fit into the record. Doing side-by-side comparisons back in the vinyl + CD days, running them simultaneously gave ne no answers. Over the years, I'd not given it a whole lot of thought, but today, with nothing pressing going on, I decided to take a closer look using the valuable editing tool of Audacity.
The question was, could I use the existing CD track of "Plucky" and successfully edit it so that its structure followed the wet LP version? I knew that simply chopping out the bump & grind part wouldn't do it. The remaining parts don't fit together the way they should.
So, first, I brought up the CD version in Audacity. For comparison, I also brought up the wet LP version. I could easily see where the bump & grind part was, starting near the 1:30 mark and continuing to the 2:10 mark. The wet LP wave form didn't look anything like that, of course, and that LP track is a good bit shorter in length.
In trying to synch up the two tracks, I had to speed up the CD track by about a half of a percent so that it matched the LP track as far as it could. This had no bearing on the edit I was attempting, but it helped to have both running at the same speed.
At the 1:26 or so mark, the tracks deviated, and by looking at the wet LP's waveform, I noticed that a part of the song that came earlier, might have been repeated here instead of the bump & grind part.
Looking back over the waveforms, I noticed the repetition of the part from about 46 seconds into the track to about 1:05. At that point it was just a matter of picking the right moment to start copying that section and then finding the right place to plop it into and instead of the bump & grind section.
Success! The two tracks now lined up perfectly and I finally figured out how the edit was accomplished all those years ago. It would appear that the bump & grind part was in the original recording, and for whatever reason, Herb either edited the track himself or had Larry Levine do it for the purposes of the album. We know that Herb often considered an album listener to be maybe a little more refined than a singles listener, so he was willing to alter things for both types of audiences. In this case, whatever the reason was for the wet LP, it carried the less controversial bump & grind section.
So, while I believe the sonic mixes of the two versions of "Plucky" are a bit different, it is possible to edit the CD version to mimic the length of the wet LP version.
Since back in the late 80s, when I first heard the CD of WHAT NOW MY LOVE, and nearly lost control of my car when the "Plucky" bump & grind section came on, I've had questions about this mix of the song. I'd grown up with the "wet" version of the album and never knew of any other. On that "wet" version, "Plucky" is a straightforward song with no middle "bump and grind" part.
So, after hearing this new middle part, well, new to me anyway, I wondered how in the world that part fit into the record. Doing side-by-side comparisons back in the vinyl + CD days, running them simultaneously gave ne no answers. Over the years, I'd not given it a whole lot of thought, but today, with nothing pressing going on, I decided to take a closer look using the valuable editing tool of Audacity.
The question was, could I use the existing CD track of "Plucky" and successfully edit it so that its structure followed the wet LP version? I knew that simply chopping out the bump & grind part wouldn't do it. The remaining parts don't fit together the way they should.
So, first, I brought up the CD version in Audacity. For comparison, I also brought up the wet LP version. I could easily see where the bump & grind part was, starting near the 1:30 mark and continuing to the 2:10 mark. The wet LP wave form didn't look anything like that, of course, and that LP track is a good bit shorter in length.
In trying to synch up the two tracks, I had to speed up the CD track by about a half of a percent so that it matched the LP track as far as it could. This had no bearing on the edit I was attempting, but it helped to have both running at the same speed.
At the 1:26 or so mark, the tracks deviated, and by looking at the wet LP's waveform, I noticed that a part of the song that came earlier, might have been repeated here instead of the bump & grind part.
Looking back over the waveforms, I noticed the repetition of the part from about 46 seconds into the track to about 1:05. At that point it was just a matter of picking the right moment to start copying that section and then finding the right place to plop it into and instead of the bump & grind section.
Success! The two tracks now lined up perfectly and I finally figured out how the edit was accomplished all those years ago. It would appear that the bump & grind part was in the original recording, and for whatever reason, Herb either edited the track himself or had Larry Levine do it for the purposes of the album. We know that Herb often considered an album listener to be maybe a little more refined than a singles listener, so he was willing to alter things for both types of audiences. In this case, whatever the reason was for the wet LP, it carried the less controversial bump & grind section.
So, while I believe the sonic mixes of the two versions of "Plucky" are a bit different, it is possible to edit the CD version to mimic the length of the wet LP version.
That would make sense, but then why include it on the "west coast" or dry version of the album? The two versions of this album are just so darned confusing, and other than 'Herb did one and Larry Levine did the other', there's been no real explanation other than conjecture on all of our parts.
I just find it fascinating listening to the differences.
Bobberman
Well-Known Member
Me too I was quite surprised hearing the changes when a friend of mine got the original CD in 1989 and showed me sadly I couldn't afford a CD copy at the time then when I finally could it was out of print ( which was the case of many many CDs) but thankfully when it came back in print I listened even closer to the differences through the headphones it's a very revealing listen.
My theory has always been that the dry version is the "unfinished" version. There are a lot of features on the wet version that would seem to be accomplished by putting "more work" in to the album. Adding the trombone to "Brasilia," taking the bump-n-grind out of "Plucky," adding the echo here and there. It all sounds like stuff that was done to tweak the album and smooth off the rough edges, if you will. So to me, the dry version will always be the "unfinished" one.
Given the apparently slap-dash way they labels maintained their recordings back in the day, it seems entirely possible that the "wrong" (unfinished) version of the album was sent to one of the pressing plants, and maybe nobody even noticed the differences at first, until the master for the wet version was lost to the ages along with all the work that was done to "finish" it, leaving us all with the dry version as the only version still extant as far as master tapes go.
Given the apparently slap-dash way they labels maintained their recordings back in the day, it seems entirely possible that the "wrong" (unfinished) version of the album was sent to one of the pressing plants, and maybe nobody even noticed the differences at first, until the master for the wet version was lost to the ages along with all the work that was done to "finish" it, leaving us all with the dry version as the only version still extant as far as master tapes go.
I'm still going with the idea that there was a mono mix, and a stereo mix (current CD version). But someone mistakenly released a stereo version of the mono mix. They would normally not create three mixes and honestly, the version that's officially been on CD is the worst of the two stereo versions. With the trombone missing from "Brasilia," it has never sounded right (I grew up with the mono album, and the stereo version I found decades later was identical, except for being in stereo). And the break in the middle of "Plucky" makes absolutely no sense at all. Ruined a good song.
Too much fuss for an album I don't really like... 🤷♂️
Too much fuss for an album I don't really like... 🤷♂️
For most of us on the East Coast, I think the LPs we bought were always that way. At least we think that's the way it shook out. It's a generalization, not a hard and fast rule, but it depended on which pressing plant pressed the LP, and which stampers they were using.
Out here in the western wilds of Montana, my LP copy of the album had the 'bone in Brasilia. But, I bought that particular record from a now-defunct here in town -- but their distributor was Dart Records, which I think was in of Minneapolis, so my copy could very well have been from an east coast plant.
How did I, a 10 year old kid at the time, know that our local store got their records from Dart Records? From the reorder tag. They had a sticker on the front of each album that contained the price, along with a tear-out portion that said "Remove and return to Dart Records." It wasn't until a few years later, when I was actually in the music business, that I saw a mention of the company in Billboard.
Picture sleeve for SP 414 Stereo Jukebox Little LP - note that the artwork has both the
stereo indicator and number at the top and the monaural number at the bottom right.
Stereo Jukebox Little LP - note that the label says "Herb Alpert's Tijuana Brass", rather than
the cover's "Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass."
A&M 792 picture sleeve What Now My Love b/w Spanish Flea
A&M 8508 Forget Me Nots 45 re-issue What Now My Love b/w Spanish Flea
Rowe AMI promo record has Herb's voice over What Now My Love on red wax.
Recording Session Info:
01/11/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - It Was A Very Good Year, I'll Remember You - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Nick Ceroli - drums, Bob Edmondson - trombone, Tonni Kalash - trumpet, Lou Pagani - piano, John Pisano - guitar, Pat Senatore - bass, Julius Wechter - marimba, Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin, Lew McCreary - trombone, Chuck Berghofer - bass, Jerry Williams - drums & percussion.
01/14/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - Red, Plucky Part I - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Nick Ceroli - drums, Bob Edmondson - trombone, Tonni Kalash - trumpet, Lou Pagani - piano, John Pisano - guitar, Pat Senatore - bass, Julius Wechter - marimba, Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin, Lew McCreary - trombone, Chuck Berghofer - bass, Jerry Williams - drums & percussion, Howard Perry - ?.
2/7/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - Sol's Tune #1, Shadow of Your Smile, Sol's Tune #2, If I Were A Rich Man - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Nick Ceroli - drums, Bob Edmondson - trombone, Tonni Kalash - trumpet, Lou Pagani - piano, John Pisano - guitar, Pat Senatore - bass, Julius Wechter - marimba, Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin, Samuel Goldstein - drums, Clifford Hills - bass.
2/10/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - So What's New? - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Carl Fortino - accordion.
3/1/66 Gold Star Recording Studios - Shadow Of Your Smile, It Was A Very Good Year, Sol's Tune #1 - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Emil Briano - violin, Peter DeVoogdt - ?, Leonard Malarsky - violin, Lew McCreary - trombone, Gareth Nuttycombe - viola, George Poole - flute & violin, Ernie Tack - trombone, Darrel Terwilliger - violin & viola, Irving Weinper - trombone, Walter Wiemeyer - violin.
5/19/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - Brasilia, Plucky, Freckles, It Was A Very Good Year, Memories Of Madrid, Five Minutes More, Magic Trumpet - no musicians listed.
I realize I'm 14 years late on this, but Steve, I don't see the title track ("What Now My Love") listed in the session dates above.
I'm curious as to the timing if we can find it. While the song had been circulating for a few years among "adult" artists, Sonny and Cher had a single of it. It peaked at #14 in Billboard, but #17 on KHJ, which began playing it January 19, 1966.
KHJ played Herb's version starting March 2, 1966. It peaked at #24 in Billboard, but #20 at KHJ. Sonny and Cher's single had only been off the air for a week when they started playing Herb's.
I'm just enough of the right kind of geek to wonder if Herb cut it a few days before Sonny and Cher's single started playing on the radio in L.A., or a few days afterward.
