Humble Prediction re: Summertime

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That's not the point! If the music was great, and the fans put me there with their support, why wouldn't you give it back to your roots? You know as well as I do, you can't possibly spend that kind of money! :wink:
 
gameenjoyer said:
I don't mean to sound cynical at all, so, those of you who are of a higher level of life experience, please do not get mad at me, but I must say this:

Most of Alpert's fans today are those who remember him from the TJB era. Many of those people are of an advanced age, and, as such, their continued existence in the temporal realm for any appreciable length of time is questionable. Thus, the quantity of time that goes by before these albums are re-released is likely inversely related to the sales potential of these albums, since, the longer he waits, the higher the quantity of his fans who are going to cease to exist in the temporal realm. Depressing, yes, but my point is that he should release them sooner rather than later before the sales potential dries up so dramatically as to make the releases virtually pointless.

He must realize this, since he is not exactly of a low level of life experience himself, but perhaps the full ramifications of that fact have not occurred to him. Sorry if this is a depressing thought, but it's my opinion, and I have tried to frame it in the least depressive wording I can.

Well, I'm 58 years old, and I'm one of those people who probably best remember Herb Alpert from the TJB era in the 1960s. I grew up in the 1960s, and graduated from high school in 1969, with Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass having been the soundtrack to my life, and having been my favorite music during that time period.

However, to suggest that I am of an "advanced age" does not sit well with me, nor lend credibility to the above post. And that my "continued existence in the temporal realm" is questionable is simply, well, I'll not post what I actually think about that kind of comment...

Depressing - no. Somewhat offensive - yes, at least from my point of view.

I don't think that purely commercial interests are all that much involved in these reissues/releases. I agree with the post somewhere in this thread that Herb Alpert is probably not all that concerned about sales potential. He might have been more interested in that back about 1962...my opinion is that he will release what he likes best from his long and diverse career, and scuttle the rest.

I also think he has acknowledged and given the nod to his TJB era with the LB through BOTB releases on Shout! Factory. Those are the "core" of that portion of his career. Whatever else he releases, and regardless of the medium in which it is done, is so-called "frosting on the cake."
 
You must remember that "gameenjoyer" is in his 20s so to him, anybody 30 or over is "old." Us 50-somethings must appear to be ready for the crypt already.

Me, I'm 53 and figure I'm just about to the halfway point right now, so I plan to have at least another 50 or more years of music listening to look forward to. I just hope my hearing and player-button-pushing-fingers hold up.
 
Hurrikane said:
That's not the point! If the music was great, and the fans put me there with their support, why wouldn't you give it back to your roots? You know as well as I do, you can't possibly spend that kind of money! :wink:

First of all, Herb had to split the $510 mil with Jerry, so we're at 255. Taxes, lawyers...maybe Herb got 100 million...20 years ago.

In the meantime, he's lived, bought houses and cars and art and stuff...donated to charities, causes and candidates, started and closed a new label, raised a child and I'll bet taken the same kind of hit to his assets that we all have in this economy.

He's 74, with a wife 12 years younger. He doesn't owe us..we paid our money and he entertained us. Hey...those who only watched on TV or listened to the radio but didn't buy the records or the concer tickets he entertained for free.

He owes Lani and their child (now grown) and future generations of Alperts a secure future. Period.
 
Captain Dave, if I may make a few points.

1. Mike is correct. I am in my 20s. Thus, to me, 50s would seem like an "advanced age", to an extent.

2. That being said, 50s was not the age range I had in mind when I made my above statement. Since Alpert is in his 70s, that is the age range I had in mind. I did not consider the fact that many of his fans would have been younger than him, but, at the same time, I did not say that all of his fans were of "advanced age", but rather than "many" were.

3. You should also note how far out of my way I went to try to be unoffensive in my wordings. If I had wanted to be offensive (or had simply not cared), I would more likely have made a statement somewhere in the vicinity of "many of Alpert's fans are old geezers who will probably die sometime in the next couple years." Instead, I used terms such as "advanced age" and "level of life experience" to describe their age and, instead of saying they'd die soon, I said that "their continued existence in the temporal realm for any appreciable length of time is questionable". Even if you were still offended, I hope that I at least made it clear that I was not trying to be offensive.

All that said, I'm sorry if the post offended you. If there's some way that I can make such statements in the future in a less offensive way, please let me know, because it wasn't my intention to offend anybody. And I certainly wouldn't have known that Alpert doesn't care about sales potential. I mean, why would he go on tour to promote an album if he doesn't care how well it sells, which is what he is currently doing?
 
I'm sure Herb is delighted when an album sells well, but the point was that he doesn't really need one to sell well because he is not relying on those albums selling for his own well being-- he's pretty well set.

But what a lot of people forget about is, it's not just Herb who's involved with a release. A lot of people's livelihoods -- their jobs -- might rely on a project selling or not. For example, somebody at Concord Jazz had to "go after" the Alpert/Hall project (or at least approve it). If the album went right into the tank, that person's job could be on the line, especially if it happened repeatedly with other artists.

Same with Shout!Factory and their TJB releases. If they don't sell, S!F will lose money on them. Herb doesn't need to make bucks there; but S!F does. So while he has the final say on what's released, you can bet there are other people in the "food chain" who are asking questions and providing opinions whenever a release is talked about.

Finally about this whole age thing. I think it's fairly common that fans of musical artists are actually younger than the artist is. Herb was born in 1935; I was born in 1956 and became a TJB fan at about age 9. The difference is that Herb's music appealed to MANY age groups, not just "the kids" in the '60s; so he has many fans who are his age and older, and also many fans today who are as young as their 20s and maybe even younger. He probably has fans of the widest age range of any trumpet player, ever. I would venture a guess that if you averaged out the age of Herb's fans, I'd bet the average today would be somewhere between the mid 40s to mid 50s...not the mid-70s.
 
Let's all be thankful Herb made all this great music or we would not have this forum to light heartedly bicker back and forth about. It truly is all about the love of the music and the man himself, and a very humble man at that.

Long Live Herb!! :D
 
I'm not saying that Herb Alpert doesn't care about how well it sells at all, but I think he is in a position at this point in his life to have other motivations to go on tour and promote an album. Herb Alpert loves music and loves playing and performing - it has been his life. He is an artist, musician, and performer at heart, and at this point in his life, that may very well be the larger motivation for his present activities. And, he is getting the opportunity to form a creative team with his wife (for whom he had a large role in the advancement of her own singing career), which may also give him great personal and artistic satisfaction.

And, of course, I am speculating, as are all who offer comments here. I don't think any of us speak with him on a daily basis, or find ourselves in a position of being his confidant and advisor.
 
Well if you wanna make your OWN Shout! Factory factory, there are PLENTY of vacant industrial buildings out here, not to mention plenty of PEOPLE out of work, here in S/E Michigan...

So whatever it takes to mass produce product by Herb or anyone else, still yet-to-be reissued, here and now is the place to (hopefully, legitimately) do it!



Dave :winkgrin:
 
Though our topic starter "abstract-fan" wrote a nice little track-by-track comparison on SUMMERTIME to WARM, I must also point out that our own long-time-member Dave posted a somewhat similar comparison years ago when SUMMERTIME was our Album Of The Week.

Read Dave's comments - along with all of our others here:

http://www.amcorner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3038

Harry
 
I didn't find gemenjoyer's post that offensive. I even found it slightly humorous given the way he went overboard to be inoffensive. And the aging curmudgeon in me even agreed to some extent with his supposition.

In gameenjoyer I find a fellow who is not typical of others in his (presumed) age group. Use of the word "temporal" is quite revealing -- it leads me to wonder what fiction writers he enjoys.

I could easily see myself hanging out with him even if I am an "old fogey" at 49 years of age! :wink:

--Mr Bill
 
Mr. Bill, let me put the presumptions to rest. I am 26.

And, to answer your other question, I don't think that my use of the word temporal has nothing to do with what kinds of fiction writers I enjoy, although, when I did read a lot of books, they would be of the fantasy vein for the most part, in case you're wondering. I simply tend to be a bit of an intellectual at times, that's all.
 
Harry said:
Though our topic starter "abstract-fan" wrote a nice little track-by-track comparison on SUMMERTIME to WARM, I must also point out that our own long-time-member Dave posted a somewhat similar comparison years ago when SUMMERTIME was our Album Of The Week.

Read Dave's comments - along with all of our others here:

http://www.amcorner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3038

Harry

I just went back to that thread and read it in it's entirety, all 5 pages... what a treat. Great input, great discussion, the forum at it's best!

Mike
 
In that old thread, jazzdre mentions this:

The show is hosted by smooth jazz saxophonist Mindi Abair, and she plays the latest sounds on the chill music scene. On the regular, she plays a tune by, I believe a European chill music group that has sampled John's guitar intro to 'Summertime'. Has anybody else heard this tune, and do you know the name of this group? If I hear it again tomorrow night, I'll run right to the computer and post it right away.

I'm pretty sure I posted about this somewhere else, but the song where "Summertime" is sampled is called "Bar Rhumba", found on an album called COME TOUCH THE SUN by Mo' Horizons. I heard it accidentally while walking around in Australia and inquired about it. Another track on the album, "Prince Charles Latest Affair" is a sample of Lani and Herb's version of "Love Song" fron SUN DOWN LADY.

Harry
 
"I just went back to that thread and read it in it's entirety, all 5 pages... what a treat. Great input, great discussion, the forum at it's best!"
-Mike

Just reread it myself. I think it is hilarious that Mr Bill posted on 1/18/04:

"Comparisons with Warm don't work for me."

But nearly 5 years later he glows on 11/15/09:

"I'm enlightend by his tune-to-tune camparison betweeen the two -- something I've done myself with the earlier albums"
"I like "Abstract Fan"'s comments -- I find them quite enlightening despite my fellow Mods' comments of disdain. Abstract Fan has made some interesting analogies between Warm and Summertime"

Way to stand strong with those convictions :oneeye:
 
gameenjoyer said:
CherryStreet, people's views can change with time. It's a fact of life.

Yes, you're right, gameenjoyer, you are a bit of an intellectual at times.

Mike
:yawn:
 
Now, getting back to the original intent of the thread: in my most unintellectual dreams, Summertime ain't going to be reissued in a digital format, so those who haven't done so already, you best be getting a turntable and pick up a copy of the original vinyl LP. For me, I've already made my needle drop CD-R and I listen to this great album on a regular basis. It is in my opinion well worth the investment.

Mike
 
Mike said:
Now, getting back to the original intent of the thread: in my most unintellectual dreams, Summertime ain't going to be reissued in a digital format, so those who haven't done so already, you best be getting a turntable and pick up a copy of the original vinyl LP. For me, I've already made my needle drop CD-R and I listen to this great album on a regular basis. It is in my opinion well worth the investment.

Mike

Same here...except mine's from an open reel copy.
 
Mike Blakesley said:
Summertime ain't going to be reissued in a digital format
Not to throw fuel on the fire, but...you don't know that and neither does anybody else, except one guy.

Fair enough, from now on I'll preface everything I write here with "In My Opinion" even though I thought that went without saying.

All the best,
Mike

Edit to add: I would be happy if my opionion about Summertime was wrong. :)
 
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